So is Bundesliga really THAT competitive?

Surag.Blueguy wrote:

Adit wrote:complete bull shit.Pastore never stated he want milan and nasri?


Sahin wanted milan? lol.so milan cant afford 10 million price tag now days? We wanted sahin and sahin wanted us.End of story.We signed him with out competition because he said he would have stayed in BVB if madrid didnt bid for him .Milan were never been in the picture.

This is hilarious..So you're saying Pastore would have rejected Milan ?We cant base our assumptions on random rumors cuz they are inconclusive..

But distinctly remember Pastore saying he would prefer Italy stay..Unfortunately there were no club in Serie a that could satisfy Zamparini's demands..

As for Sahin ? we cant really talk of that as Milan hardly showed any concrete Interest..
But thats what we're trying to get our point across arent we ?Serie A clubs lack the financial muscle as compared to Real Madrid or Barca..
But you cant take away the fact that Italy is still an attractive destination for top players..

I never stated italy isnt an attractive place for players,i was rather questioning arquitectos arguments with no basis such as nasri wanted milan and sahin wanted milan etc,i really dont know when they said that? saying sahin opted madrid bcz milan are in financial crisis and they cant afford 10 million for sahin is simply not true.

As for pastore,he opted for a better future imo.With the money in their hands PSG can surpass any team in series A in near future imo.

I see the positives.

No longer can Serie A spend tons of money on flops like Andy Carrol. Torres. Bebe. The Barca buys.

Serie A managers are depending on shrewd business deals.

Also, the bundisliga cannot compete on the long run when they sell their Sahin's for 10 Mil only. If Udinese had the Dortmund team, they would sell them for 150 mil at least. Simply put, if the bundisliga can't keep other clubs away from their stars then they can't compete in elite competitions.

The CL and EL format needs a massive change. Fact is that the EL has more matches, less rewards, and poorer schedule than the CL. Italian teams simply can't afford to lose their grasps on the mid-table. EL is an insignificant competition, which needs addressing by UEFA.

Also, Serie A despite being struck by Calciopoli still managed to get two CL in the last 5 years. Having one less CL spot will only improve our CL performance, and Italy does not give a rat's ass about the EL. Most teams would rather sell their Pastore's for 30+ mil as opposed to the small sums Bundesliga teams sell their stars.

Adit wrote:

Surag.Blueguy wrote:

Adit wrote:complete bull shit.Pastore never stated he want milan and nasri?


Sahin wanted milan? lol.so milan cant afford 10 million price tag now days? We wanted sahin and sahin wanted us.End of story.We signed him with out competition because he said he would have stayed in BVB if madrid didnt bid for him .Milan were never been in the picture.

This is hilarious..So you're saying Pastore would have rejected Milan ?We cant base our assumptions on random rumors cuz they are inconclusive..

But distinctly remember Pastore saying he would prefer Italy stay..Unfortunately there were no club in Serie a that could satisfy Zamparini's demands..

As for Sahin ? we cant really talk of that as Milan hardly showed any concrete Interest..
But thats what we're trying to get our point across arent we ?Serie A clubs lack the financial muscle as compared to Real Madrid or Barca..
But you cant take away the fact that Italy is still an attractive destination for top players..

I never stated italy isnt an attractive place for players,i was rather questioning arquitectos arguments with no basis such as nasri wanted milan and sahin wanted milan etc,i really dont know when they said that? saying sahin opted madrid bcz milan are in financial crisis and they cant afford 10 million for sahin is simply not true.

As for pastore,he opted for a better future imo.With the money in their hands PSG can surpass any team in series A in near future imo.

Real Madrid have a lot of money and still could not surpass the best two in Serie A achievement-wise in the last 5 years.

Lord Spencer wrote:

Adit wrote:

Surag.Blueguy wrote:

Adit wrote:complete bull shit.Pastore never stated he want milan and nasri?


Sahin wanted milan? lol.so milan cant afford 10 million price tag now days? We wanted sahin and sahin wanted us.End of story.We signed him with out competition because he said he would have stayed in BVB if madrid didnt bid for him .Milan were never been in the picture.

This is hilarious..So you're saying Pastore would have rejected Milan ?We cant base our assumptions on random rumors cuz they are inconclusive..

But distinctly remember Pastore saying he would prefer Italy stay..Unfortunately there were no club in Serie a that could satisfy Zamparini's demands..

As for Sahin ? we cant really talk of that as Milan hardly showed any concrete Interest..
But thats what we're trying to get our point across arent we ?Serie A clubs lack the financial muscle as compared to Real Madrid or Barca..
But you cant take away the fact that Italy is still an attractive destination for top players..

I never stated italy isnt an attractive place for players,i was rather questioning arquitectos arguments with no basis such as nasri wanted milan and sahin wanted milan etc,i really dont know when they said that? saying sahin opted madrid bcz milan are in financial crisis and they cant afford 10 million for sahin is simply not true.

As for pastore,he opted for a better future imo.With the money in their hands PSG can surpass any team in series A in near future imo.

Real Madrid have a lot of money and still could not surpass the best two in Serie A achievement-wise in the last 5 years.

and how this related to nasri,sahin transfers?

If you are relating to later part.Man city now have a better team than Any of series A teams,they might not win EPL bcz there is better teams infront of them but that doesnt make them any weaker.Look how far they reached with wise spending(arguable).

As for madrid,we didnt spend that much before perez,most of all we didnt spend wisely.We had our all time worst president in calderon.

Surag.Blueguy wrote:

BeautifulGame wrote:

Surag.Blueguy wrote:
Pastore and Sanchez were unproven young talents when they arrived in Italy..Respective Serie a clubs groomed them into top players..Guess the same will happen to the likes of lamela and pjanic..

And regarding Pastore and Sanchez's scenario Arq already explained above..

So what it still reduces the quality of Seria A to a large extent this season.Its like saying because Ronaldo and Fabregas came to PL as youngsters selling him to Madrid and Barca doesnt reduce the quality of PL.

The likes of Pjanic and Lamela may develop into good players in future but they they arent as good as Pastore or Sanchez now.So the quality of the league is simply reduced.

To say that they were replaced by similar quality if not better quality players (in Pjanic and Lamela ) is absurd.

Perhaps i misinterpreted your post..But my response was to your initial post when you say that Serie A lost its best players and the reasoning was also provided above since Serie A clubs couldnt afford their exorbitant price tags..

But you're making it sound as though Serie A is inferior when it comes to attracting high-profile players which is certainly not the case...Pastore and Sanchez leaving the league has its own reasons and i dunno why we are disputing that again and again..And serie a certainly cannot be mentioned in the same bracket as Bundesliga as far as attracting players are concerned which you're doing currently..

A really good example is Arturo Vidal..We are without european football and we beat Bayern to his signature..And please dont give me that Bayer04 werent prepared to sell to Bayern excuse..If that was the case then Vidal would have waited another year until he transfers to Bayern on a free..Such instances tell you that Serie A has definitely not lost its sheen when it comes to attracting top players..

Nah i didnt mean Seria A is less attractive than bundensliga.They more easily more attractive than Bundensliga since it has only Bayern which pays big wages to keep / attract players unlike Seria A.But my point was just like Bundenliga Seria A is also struggling to keep its best players and attract better players from PL or Barca and Madrid because it is struggling for money just like Bundenliga.

Both will keep losing out to Pl and Madrid or Barca as long as they struggle financially like now.

Ofcourse money is the main reason not just transfer fees but also wages.Where did i say otherwise I even bold quoted that line.

It doesnt matter how much history Seria A clubs have as long as they dont have money the top players and prospects will be going to Madrid Barca or PL teams and Seria A will also struggle to hold on their better players too.Which in turn means weakening of their league and thus attractiveness of the clubs reduced to a larger extent too.These are mutually exclusive.

Infact my initial comment was a response to a comment that was saying Best players dont want to play in Germany and was just pointing out that Seria A is in similar boat too.

Serie A has actually had this problem since Calciopoli but the fact is that despite the economy effecting the league, stats speculate that cash flow is steadily rising within the league due to management changes and improved way of presenting the league globally.

But I do agree that the recent turn of monetary events have effected the league.

Pjanic and Lamela are just unproven youngsters who need time to develop into good players whereas Pastore and Sanchez have reached that level.If u cant see the gap in quality between these players then its just pure denial

Pjanic unproven? Ligue 1 and Lyon fans will tell you otherwise. He has proven his talent through performances time and time again. Puel stunted his development in his final years by keeping him on the bench despite his performances.

Lamela hasn't proven himself in Europe but proved himself in SA as he among River's best players and churned out fantastic performances.

Pastore proven? please.... Some Milan and Inter fans didn't even want him since he disappeared in big games and was more inconsistent then someone like Menez. He hasn't proven anything at all except his flashes of brilliance.

Sanchez was a nobody before last year and has yet to do so in a big club and for a 2nd year and even failed to show up in big games in the Serie A.

Its clear you don't watch the league all to much.

Point is, names my leave Serie A due clubs not being able to afford them, yet time and time again year after year new talents emerge as well as big names do come in. The latter was weak this year due to the recent EU crisis as otherwise previous years have proven the leagues ability to bring in names.

complete bull shit.Pastore never stated he want milan and nasri?


Sahin wanted milan? lol.so milan cant afford 10 million price tag now days? We wanted sahin and sahin wanted us.End of story.We signed him with out competition because he said he would have stayed in BVB if madrid didnt bid for him .Milan were never been in the picture

Ofcourse money is the main reason not just transfer fees but also wages.Where did i say otherwise I even bold quoted that line.

It doesnt matter how much history Seria A clubs have as long as they dont have money the top players and prospects will be going to Madrid Barca or PL teams and Seria A will also struggle to hold on their better players too.Which in turn means weakening of their league and thus attractiveness of the clubs reduced to a larger extent too.These are mutually exclusive.

Infact my initial comment was a response to a comment that was saying Best players dont want to play in Germany and was just pointing out that Seria A is in similar boat too.

Serie A has actually had this problem since Calciopoli but the fact is that despite the economy effecting the league, stats speculate that cash flow is steadily rising within the league due to management changes and improved way of presenting the league globally.

But I do agree that the recent turn of monetary events have effected the league.

Pjanic and Lamela are just unproven youngsters who need time to develop into good players whereas Pastore and Sanchez have reached that level.If u cant see the gap in quality between these players then its just pure denial

Pjanic unproven? Ligue 1 and Lyon fans will tell you otherwise. He has proven his talent through performances time and time again. Puel stunted his development in his final years by keeping him on the bench despite his performances.

Lamela hasn't proven himself in Europe but proved himself in SA as he among River's best players and churned out fantastic performances.

Pastore proven? please.... Some Milan and Inter fans didn't even want him since he disappeared in big games and was more inconsistent then someone like Menez. He hasn't proven anything at all except his flashes of brilliance.

Sanchez was a nobody before last year and has yet to do so in a big club and for a 2nd year and even failed to show up in big games in the Serie A.

Its clear you don't watch the league all to much.

Point is, names my leave Serie A due clubs not being able to afford them, yet time and time again year after year new talents emerge as well as big names do come in. The latter was weak this year due to the recent EU crisis as otherwise previous years have proven the leagues ability to bring in names.

NURI SAHIN will be wanted by Milan if Andrea Pirlo leaves.

It seems more and more probable every day that Andrea Pirlo will leave Milan on a free transfer at the end of the season as Juventus are keen to sign him and have already opened talks with the player.

The Rossoneri could say goodbye to one of the best playmakers in the history and they are already looking for replacements, targeting BV Borussia Dortmund midfielder Nuri Sahin, Milannews.it reports.


Sahin, whose contract ends in 2013, has already informed the German side that he wouldn’t be signing a new contract and the management has allowed him to start speaking to other teams.

The left-footed German-born Turkish, who turns 23 next September, has already said that he “loves Italy and wants Milan” also because of the fact that his ” good friend, Kevin-Prince Boateng lives there.”

Sahin was very impressive this season (his season’s over due to an injury), but since Dortmund are going to play in the UCL next year, his price is pretty high, an €18-20m offer should be enough though.

JAVIER PASTORE points out desire to play for Milan, but Inter is an option too.

The Argentine will be sold this summer and a number of teams are believed to hold interest in him. However, only one Serie A club has shown desire to sign the player, who is valuated by his club at €45m.

“My managers are at work. I think I can say that I will not play next year in Palermo. It will not be easy to cut the umbilical cord. President Zamparini is considered to me as a father. And the team Rosanero has changed my life,” Pastore, who’s is currently playing the Copa America, told La Gazzetta dello Sport.


Javier is likely to move abroad, but he’d rather stay in the peninsula: “I prefer to stay in Italy; I like the climate of Serie A. I would not start from scratch in another world of football. I am used to Italian football.”

Turning to the choices, Pastore said: “I like AC Milan. They won the league title, and has big ambitions. I will only leave Palermo to go to a more important team.” Milan denied wanting him yesterday.

“There is also Inter, my manager told me about 4-5 clubs in the running. Roma? I talked with my friend [Nicolas] Burdisso but it is currently not an option for me,” the 22-year-old concluded.

Just because he preferred Madrid doesn't mean he did not have a liking for Milan. He is a DLP as this position is not what Allegri wanted in his target.

Also, I'm quite sure you don't exactly follow Serie A news which is why you haven't heard of his interest for Milan, the world doesn't revolve around that trash marca.

Adit wrote:

Lord Spencer wrote:

Adit wrote:

Surag.Blueguy wrote:

Adit wrote:complete bull shit.Pastore never stated he want milan and nasri?


Sahin wanted milan? lol.so milan cant afford 10 million price tag now days? We wanted sahin and sahin wanted us.End of story.We signed him with out competition because he said he would have stayed in BVB if madrid didnt bid for him .Milan were never been in the picture.

This is hilarious..So you're saying Pastore would have rejected Milan ?We cant base our assumptions on random rumors cuz they are inconclusive..

But distinctly remember Pastore saying he would prefer Italy stay..Unfortunately there were no club in Serie a that could satisfy Zamparini's demands..

As for Sahin ? we cant really talk of that as Milan hardly showed any concrete Interest..
But thats what we're trying to get our point across arent we ?Serie A clubs lack the financial muscle as compared to Real Madrid or Barca..
But you cant take away the fact that Italy is still an attractive destination for top players..

I never stated italy isnt an attractive place for players,i was rather questioning arquitectos arguments with no basis such as nasri wanted milan and sahin wanted milan etc,i really dont know when they said that? saying sahin opted madrid bcz milan are in financial crisis and they cant afford 10 million for sahin is simply not true.

As for pastore,he opted for a better future imo.With the money in their hands PSG can surpass any team in series A in near future imo.

Real Madrid have a lot of money and still could not surpass the best two in Serie A achievement-wise in the last 5 years.

and how this related to nasri,sahin transfers?

If you are relating to later part.Man city now have a better team than Any of series A teams,they might not win EPL bcz there is better teams infront of them but that doesnt make them any weaker.Look how far they reached with wise spending(arguable).

As for madrid,we didnt spend that much before perez,most of all we didnt spend wisely.We had our all time worst president in calderon.

That is the keyword, having WC class individuals do not equate to having a WC team. Which is why Napoli who have a great team spirit if not the individuals managed to hold them off. And so did other EPL teams.

And that is the reason Barca are the dominating force they are now, they have one heck of a team spirit behind WC individuals.

I know nothing of the Sahin/Nasri transfers to comments, I was just talking about the whole dilemma facing the Bundesliga when they sell their Sahin's for only 10-20 (Sahin, Ozil, Vidal).

You didnt show me any links at all,and italian press

the report is on april 21 according to rossenary blog lol

Its clearly made up,he only said he loves italy never said he wanted milan,infact it will be stupid for him to publicly say it when he was already a BVB player.

I saw you defend xavi by saying it is completely made up by media and taken out of context .just saying.

what about any german media reporting it?

and this news is only in italian medias.lol/

BeautifulGame wrote:

Surag.Blueguy wrote:

BeautifulGame wrote:

Surag.Blueguy wrote:
Pastore and Sanchez were unproven young talents when they arrived in Italy..Respective Serie a clubs groomed them into top players..Guess the same will happen to the likes of lamela and pjanic..

And regarding Pastore and Sanchez's scenario Arq already explained above..

So what it still reduces the quality of Seria A to a large extent this season.Its like saying because Ronaldo and Fabregas came to PL as youngsters selling him to Madrid and Barca doesnt reduce the quality of PL.

The likes of Pjanic and Lamela may develop into good players in future but they they arent as good as Pastore or Sanchez now.So the quality of the league is simply reduced.

To say that they were replaced by similar quality if not better quality players (in Pjanic and Lamela ) is absurd.

Perhaps i misinterpreted your post..But my response was to your initial post when you say that Serie A lost its best players and the reasoning was also provided above since Serie A clubs couldnt afford their exorbitant price tags..

But you're making it sound as though Serie A is inferior when it comes to attracting high-profile players which is certainly not the case...Pastore and Sanchez leaving the league has its own reasons and i dunno why we are disputing that again and again..And serie a certainly cannot be mentioned in the same bracket as Bundesliga as far as attracting players are concerned which you're doing currently..

A really good example is Arturo Vidal..We are without european football and we beat Bayern to his signature..And please dont give me that Bayer04 werent prepared to sell to Bayern excuse..If that was the case then Vidal would have waited another year until he transfers to Bayern on a free..Such instances tell you that Serie A has definitely not lost its sheen when it comes to attracting top players..

Nah i didnt mean Seria A is less attractive than bundensliga.They more easily more attractive than Bundensliga since it has only Bayern which pays big wages to keep / attract players unlike Seria A.But my point was just like Bundenliga Seria A is also struggling to keep its best players and attract better players from PL or Barca and Madrid because it is struggling for money just like Bundenliga.

Both will keep losing out to Pl and Madrid or Barca as long as they struggle financially like now.

Struggling to keep its best players ?Thats a bold claim..

I still maintain that Pastore and Sanchez are exceptions and they have their own reasoning as mentioned above..And common Udinese and Palermo are selling clubs and you generalize saying Serie A are struggling to keep their best players..And for the record ,Pastore and Sanchez were our most priced talents not exactly the 'BEST TWO PLAYERS' you are mentioning..

As far as the top brass of serie a are concerned they are clearly not struggling to keep their best players..Rather we are not able to price talented players away from mid-table clubs since the fee demands are way too high and we dont overpay as well..

Whereas in Germany,Dortmund despite winning the league are struggling to keep their best players..Thats not the case in Serie A..

Surag, I see you did not put McLewis in your sig despite participating in the Prediction competition

Adit wrote:You didnt show me any links at all,and italian press

the report is on april 21 according to rossenary blog lol

Its clearly made up,he only said he loves italy never said he wanted milan,infact it will be stupid for him to publicly say it when he was already a BVB player.

I saw you defend xavi by saying it is completely made up by media and taken out of context .just saying.

what about any german media reporting it?

and this news is only in italian medias.lol/

Except you don't actually acknowledge that his statements were official on all Italian media presses including Rai Italia which is OFFICIAL. Having it reported from as RB doesn't make their own sources as they only bring in news from official statements and press.

Why would German or any other media report Sahin and Pastore's interest in Italian clubs? I don't see Italian press or the Spanish report statements regarding Germany or England unless its international. You clearly haven't though this through.

Xavi thread? Funny you bring that up considering you were roasting by Kizz and CO. within that thread.

I'd like if you can bring forward that thread and see exactly what happened.

Lord Spencer wrote:I see the positives.

No longer can Serie A spend tons of money on flops like Andy Carrol. Torres. Bebe. The Barca buys.

Frankly I dont care to elaborate how Carroll isnt a flop as would be termed as bias.But to say Torres as flop when he just had his best run of games and scored in both his last 2 games is just ridiculous.Just shows how short sighted ur judgement is when judging players performances.

As for Barca buys ya Milan wont prefer to buy Fabregas for 30 mil rather loan in a Liverpool reject like Aquilani .Great sort for business and better for Milan in winning CL i suppose:roll:

Lord Spencer wrote:
Also, the bundisliga cannot compete on the long run when they sell their Sahin's for 10 Mil only. If Udinese had the Dortmund team, they would sell them for 150 mil at least. Simply put, if the bundisliga can't keep other clubs away from their stars then they can't compete in elite competitions.

Ya selling ur best CB who had a great year last for 8mil is great business and getting eliminated from CL and thus losing 30mil.Udinessi must be applauded really great business.

Atleast Borussa had a clause which forced to sell Sahin for cheap what excuse does Udinessi have for selling Zapata for that cheap?

Lord Spencer wrote:
The CL and EL format needs a massive change. Fact is that the EL has more matches, less rewards, and poorer schedule than the CL. Italian teams simply can't afford to lose their grasps on the mid-table. EL is an insignificant competition, which needs addressing by UEFA.

Also, Serie A despite being struck by Calciopoli still managed to get two CL in the last 5 years. Having one less CL spot will only improve our CL performance, and Italy does not give a rat's ass about the EL.

Well Seria A fans can keep moaning and complaining about co-efficients but if keep on not giving a rat's ass about it then it wont be long before French league overtakes it too.From best league in Europe to 5th best league must be some achievement.

Lord Spencer wrote:
Most teams would rather sell their Pastore's for 30+ mil as opposed to the small sums Bundesliga teams sell their stars.

Actually most teams would prefer to keep their players qualify for CL and EL rather than sell Pastore and Sanchez and getting eliminated like Udinese and Palermo in qualifiers like Bundensliga clubs often try to do.

Bayern 26 goals scored 1 conceded

Who was Mr X that Milan was supposed to sign ?

Ya selling ur best CB who had a great year last for 8mil is great business and getting eliminated from CL and thus losing 30mil.Udinessi must be applauded really great business.

Atleast Borussa had a clause which forced to sell Sahin for cheap what excuse does Udinessi have for selling Zapata for that cheap?

Zapata is actually worth 8-10 million and was a solid deal for Udine.

Udinese never expected to progress through the CL simply because their way of making money is through making stars and selling them for a high price. Holding onto the stars would result into the Fabregas saga where the loss for Arsenal was a rip-off. Udinese sold Sanchez far more for what he is actually worth.

What excuse? Sahin won them the Bundesliga and went for dirt cheap while Sanchez and Zapata only scraped Udinese to Top 4 as the difference between increase in value would be immense. Dortmund were supremely ripped off.

Well Seria A fans can keep moaning and complaining about co-efficients but if keep on not giving a rat's ass about it then it wont be long before French league overtakes it too.From best league in Europe to 5th best league must be some achievement.

Do you have any idea how flawed the coefficient system actually is? and going by your logic, Russian and Ukranian league are stronger then the Dutch league isn't it? while the 2 mentioned before the Eridivsie are nowhere near as strong as the Eridivisie.

Actually most teams would prefer to keep their players qualify for CL and EL rather than sell Pastore and Sanchez and getting eliminated like Udinese and Palermo in qualifiers like Bundensliga clubs often try to do.

You clearly didn't listen to Wigglesworth's thread and the responses which shut him up in context to the circumstances the 2 teams have to face in order to earn money.

Udinese and Palermo are very very small teams. Their positions in the Serie A table are irrelevant while the Bundesliga teams of EL and Cl are actually established teams with stable sources of income.

BeautifulGame wrote:

Lord Spencer wrote:I see the positives.

No longer can Serie A spend tons of money on flops like Andy Carrol. Torres. Bebe. The Barca buys.

Frankly I dont care to elaborate how Carroll isnt a flop as would be termed as bias.But to say Torres as flop when he just had his best run of games and scored in both his last 2 games is just ridiculous.Just shows how short sighted ur judgement is when judging players performances.

As for Barca buys ya Milan wont prefer to buy Fabregas for 30 mil rather loan in a Liverpool reject like Aquilani .Great sort for business and better for Milan in winning CL i suppose:roll:

Lord Spencer wrote:
Also, the bundisliga cannot compete on the long run when they sell their Sahin's for 10 Mil only. If Udinese had the Dortmund team, they would sell them for 150 mil at least. Simply put, if the bundisliga can't keep other clubs away from their stars then they can't compete in elite competitions.

Ya selling ur best CB who had a great year last for 8mil is great business and getting eliminated from CL and thus losing 30mil.Udinessi must be applauded really great business.

Atleast Borussa had a clause which forced to sell Sahin for cheap what excuse does Udinessi have for selling Zapata for that cheap?

Lord Spencer wrote:
The CL and EL format needs a massive change. Fact is that the EL has more matches, less rewards, and poorer schedule than the CL. Italian teams simply can't afford to lose their grasps on the mid-table. EL is an insignificant competition, which needs addressing by UEFA.

Also, Serie A despite being struck by Calciopoli still managed to get two CL in the last 5 years. Having one less CL spot will only improve our CL performance, and Italy does not give a rat's ass about the EL.

Well Seria A fans can keep moaning and complaining about co-efficients but if keep on not giving a rat's ass about it then it wont be long before French league overtakes it too.From best league in Europe to 5th best league must be some achievement.

Lord Spencer wrote:
Most teams would rather sell their Pastore's for 30+ mil as opposed to the small sums Bundesliga teams sell their stars.

Actually most teams would prefer to keep their players qualify for CL and EL rather than sell Pastore and Sanchez and getting eliminated like Udinese and Palermo in qualifiers like Bundensliga clubs often try to do.

As for Toress, he needs to continue his run of games not to be considered a flop.
You thinking that this run of game is 100% certain to continue is a short sighted and ridicilous knee jerk.
Carrol needs to actually have a run of games not to be considered a flop.

As for the Bundesliga teams selling their players for cheap prices, that is my friend a fact. You providing one counter argument in Zapeta does not change that fact. It is a problem that is economically true, and needs to be addressed.

Udinese registered a 50+ mill profit last year, so I really don't see them crying much. I condemn their attitude, but Bundesliga clubs who actually want to compete can learn a thing or two when selling their players. Sahin might have had a small value clause, but Ozil and Vidal did not.

The EL is an insignificant league, and no Italian fan would be happy if their team gets it. The coefficients can go to hell for all I care, as long as the teams that are in the CL perform then I am okay with it. It is a known fact that the EL is a boring uninteresting league, and that it needs a complete revamp.

The fact that the Bundesliga does not have a concrete top 6 means that they do not keep their stars and that they would rather sell them for 30+ and lose a couple of places than selling them for 10-20 and still lose a couple of places. A club cannot compete in the long run unless they have a solid investment plan. Udinese do not have such and hence opted to sell as they always do and play for mid-table again. Napoli in the other hand does have a solid investment plan and are building for a stronger future.

Most bundesliga teams don't have the financial power to continuously battle for honor, so if you can't hold on to your stars, at least sell them for a lot of money. The Zapat deal was the worst in Udinese recent history by the way, which makes me think Zabata forced it. (there are reports Zabata said he will not com back following the Copa)

Sahin had a transfer clause and was the only reason he went for 10m. All the Dortmund players signed contract extensions that season and Sahin was the only one not to, because he wanted to move on (more money). Hummels also had a similar transfer clause that was eliminated from his new contract.

Oezil and Vidal were in their last years of contract. I agree they could have gotten a bit more money from those deals, but in Bremen's case they needed the money and couldn't afford to let him go for free, and in Leverkusen's it was to sell him to Juve or lose him to Bayern, a direct rival, who Rudi Voeller hates and was never going to sell him there in the first place.

German clubs could pull of a Portuguese style market inflation, but most of these clubs are very financially stable. IMO, they should still do it anyways because nowadays everything runs on money. The 4th CL spot will bring some great revenue and prestige, at least.

Dortmund have a young, talented and a squad with lots of spirit. A few more players can make them into a CL capable team, IMO. They are Germany's Napoli. Leverkusen are a bit far behind, and so are Schalke, but the difference in talent is shrinking. If they can balance their finances out, the Bundesliga will have several decent clubs going to the CL.

Nevermind Bayern, who once they finish paying off the stadium will have similar economic muscle as Barcelona or Madrid, along with the prestige.

People are mad and jelly because Germans are awesome and they do it without getting into debt.....

German efficiency and all that jazz

Immaculate_Mole wrote:People are mad and jelly because Germans are awesome and they do it without getting into debt.....

German efficiency and all that jazz

I have said countless time that the German model is the key, but that does not mean it can't improve.
Fact is that Bundesliga teams are not good in selling their stars, and would benefit more if they sold them
for larger price tags.

It also does not mean UEFA gets slack for the crap EL.
It is a competition that brings little revenue to both UEFA and the clubs. Gives little exposure to talent, and is the
same value as local cups.

BTW just to intersect: Vidal and Dzeko were sold outside the league for the same reason Misimovic was last year: the clubs that were selling didn't want to strengthen Bayern Munich. This happens a lot in the Bundesliga.

But still, any Bundesliga fan who thinks that our runners-up clubs like Werder Bremen, or Leverkusen, could exert the same kind of pull that a Serie A mid-table team like Roma or Juventus does is delusional, it'll take another 4 to 5 years for Bundesligas reputation and pull to catch up to it's actual quality. That's just how things like that work, I still think of Juventus as a top club, even though they're probably still two or three seasons away from really being a UCL power again. And I still don't take City seriously despite them having a squad that could easily win the UCL.

People are slow to change their habitual ways of thinking.

American (continental) Model > All the other models.

A few seasons ago when Wolfsburg, Bremen, Stuttgart and Hamburg were better it was very competitive. Now though alot of their best players have left and they haven't been properly replaced.

Now I think Serie A is the most competitive. Napoli, Juve, Milan, Inter and Roma are all contenders and teams like Udinese, Genoa, Palermo and Fiorentina are all great teams that can also challenge if they go on a good run.

This thread has gone way too off-topic..From discussing competitiveness to release clauses to enormous transfer fees to the flawed co-efficient system and what not..

Agreed it has been the most competitive league by far but this season i think its gonna be a different story..Bayern will walk the league..I'll eat my words if that doesnt happen and clubs like Dortmund or Bremen pose a serious challenge to Bayern..

Edit:aford knows what he's talking..Absolutely agree with him..

Bremen is only 2 points off. Same with Monchengladbach, who were relegation fodder last season. Once Leverkusen, Schalke and Dortmund get their groove back, they may lessen the gap between Bayern and them.

But to state Bayern will "walk" the league, as if they win by a silly 10 points or have a 30 point gap between first and 4th place is not happening.

I'm not talking about the present scenario..I am predicting that is going to be the case..

Its just similar to Inter's scenario not so long ago..You can deny all you want Buli fans but Bayern will win it easy this season..they are just on another level

And talking about in gap in points that is not the most precise way to measure competitiveness of a league especially considering when a team wins the league with a few games in hand..

Thats pretty much what happened last season,Dortmund won it comfortably with a few games to go even though Leverkusen were hot on their trails but they never looked like winning it..And in Bundesliga you have many balanced teams so a 15 point difference between the first and the fourth is actually considered large..

Sure, the most likely scenario is that Bayern will win it. Even the pattern agrees. But they're not gonna win it without a fight.

Oh, really? Gaps in points don't count? So you consider a 25 point gap between Barcelona and 3rd placed Valencia healthy? That's competitive as hell, then.

Dortmund won the league with a 7 point advantage. Milan won it with a 6 point advantage. Oh, no competition there, I guess.

The Bundesliga is a funny league in that a good teams can find themselves all over the table. Schalke went 14th and they got the CL semis, FFS. Bremen 13th, they are now 2nd. Monchengladbach were in relegation zone most of the time and are now also at joint 2nd. Bundesliga is much too unpredictable.