Israel (are the most brainwashed people on earth) vs Palestina

BarrileteCosmico wrote:Israel is not interested in a one state solution. They want to leave Palestinians in a permanent state of statelessness (or at least, the Bibi led right does). They won't be giving anyone reparations or statehood.

If Hamas had Palestinians best interest at heart they should give up and trade the land claim for statehood. That way Gaza can finally grow. But it's hard to see that as a realistic path forward.

The 1947 UN partition plan was accepted by all except the Palestinians and Arabs.  Read here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Partition_Plan_for_Palestine

The Arabs and Palestinians tried to exterminate the Jews (yes genocide) during the 1948 Arab-Isreali war.  Read here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1948_Arab%E2%80%93Israeli_War

The Arabs and Palestinians lost that war, leading to the expulsion of 711,000 Palestinians from Israel... as well it should be.  They wanted to kill all the Jewish people.  They refused a plan to accommodate everyone before this war.  To the winner goes the spoils.

One of Hamas' missions is to exterminate the Jews and the state of Israel.  Read here:
https://www.adl.org/resources/blog/hamas-its-own-words

Not only should Israel NOT accept a two-state solution as long as extremists run the Palestinians... if it continues, they have every right to deal with the threat in any way they see fit.  Oct 7 was an attack on Israeli civilians.  Palestinian civilians celebrated it on the streets.  Guess what.. you deserve everything that's coming to you.

I believe in one way to deal with extremists:  Shoot them in the head and throw their bodies in the sea or ocean, like the Algerians did to save themselves.  They're not human beings and, thus, don't deserve human rights.

Hezbollah is about to get theirs too. Israeli is about to shift its focus now that Gaza has been brought to its knees.

sportsczy wrote:
Hezbollah is about to get theirs too.  Israeli is about to shift its focus now that Gaza has been brought to its knees.

I want them to try, Hezbollah is definitely no Hamas that's why they are so reluctant to start the war, US already gave them the middle finger because they know it will be a mess for the Israelis.

Sports, you’re blinded by hatred, and I say that as someone who likes and respects you. You didn’t address any of my points and you’re cherry-picking history and twisting it to your narrative to justify a genocide. You gotta stop using your own experiences growing up with extremist Muslim regimes that were propped up by the CIA to justify slaughtering Palestinians and killing women and children.

FennecFox7 wrote:Sports, you’re blinded by hatred, and I say that as someone who likes and respects you. You didn’t address any of my points and you’re cherry-picking history and twisting it to your narrative to justify a genocide. You gotta stop using your own experiences growing up with extremist Muslim regimes that were propped up by the CIA to justify slaughtering Palestinians and killing women and children.

They were not propped up by the CIA.  Very much organic.  All of them.  And they are all abhorrent.  They kill people as a rule (they make it very clear).  Any organization that has in its mission statement to kill others can go to hell.  Literally.  And if the people of a country choose such a regime, they should face the consequences.  This is as much true for Germany and Hitler as it is for the Palestinians and Hamas.

Same goes for the Iranians and the current regime there. That said, I don't think the current Iranian population wants this regime at all. The government kills any dissenters. So the current Iranian population is paying for the sins of the generation that brought this regime to power, unfortunately for them. They have to overthrow them though or this will only end very very badly. It will happen sooner or later.

Pedram wrote:

sportsczy wrote:
Hezbollah is about to get theirs too.  Israeli is about to shift its focus now that Gaza has been brought to its knees.

I want them to try, Hezbollah is definitely no Hamas that's why they are so reluctant to start the war, US already gave them the middle finger because they know it will be a mess for the Israelis.

Hezbollah are cowards.  They will crawl into their caves like the animals that they are if anyone stands up to them.

It's about to start: https://www.politico.com/news/2024/06/27/us-intelligence-israel-hezbollah-war-00165338

Israel taking care of all the rabid dogs around them once and for all.

sportsczy wrote:

FennecFox7 wrote:Sports, you’re blinded by hatred, and I say that as someone who likes and respects you. You didn’t address any of my points and you’re cherry-picking history and twisting it to your narrative to justify a genocide. You gotta stop using your own experiences growing up with extremist Muslim regimes that were propped up by the CIA to justify slaughtering Palestinians and killing women and children.

They were not propped up by the CIA.  Very much organic.  All of them.

Show your work on this claim, Sports. What is the evidence that these groups are completely organic, formed independent of outside influence?

I’ll make a post later on addressing your points sports but damn. Did not expect this at all. You’re entitled to your opinion but you need to realize peace and love are the solutions, not killing and destruction.

sportsczy wrote:

FennecFox7 wrote:Sports, you’re blinded by hatred, and I say that as someone who likes and respects you. You didn’t address any of my points and you’re cherry-picking history and twisting it to your narrative to justify a genocide. You gotta stop using your own experiences growing up with extremist Muslim regimes that were propped up by the CIA to justify slaughtering Palestinians and killing women and children.

They were not propped up by the CIA.  Very much organic.  All of them.  And they are all abhorrent.  They kill people as a rule (they make it very clear).  Any organization that has in its mission statement to kill others can go to hell.  Literally.  And if the people of a country choose such a regime, they should face the consequences.  This is as much true for Germany and Hitler as it is for the Palestinians and Hamas.

Same goes for the Iranians and the current regime there.  That said, I don't think the current Iranian population wants this regime at all.  The government kills any dissenters.  So the current Iranian population is paying for the sins of the generation that brought this regime to power, unfortunately for them.  They have to overthrow them though or this will only end very very badly.  It will happen sooner or later.

A quick google search proves you wrong. Mainstream media sources at that.



Didn't know Hamas rounded up and killed millions of jews. Hamas is there to justify a cleansing of Palestinian people. They are there by design, and funded by Israel themsleves. Saying Hamas represents Palestinians is a defacto way of you saying the Palestinians are terrorists. That is just racism right there. As said before, you are full of hate and letting your experience of extreme islamists trigger you into thinking hundreds of millions of people are subhuman terrorists. Cherry picking historical facts as well to suit your narrative.

Hamas are obviously no angels, but they are all the Palestinian people have to defend against a military backed by the US. We sent over 20 billion in aid to Israel this year. Are you okay with that?

You didn't address what I said with the funding of Hamas by Netanyahu via Qatar.. again, a simple google search would prove you wrong.

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/10/world/middleeast/israel-qatar-money-prop-up-hamas.html

Also you didn't respond to me regarding what you said about Algeria, you were completely wrong and let's not forget, as much as I blame the Algerian people, there is a neocolonial establishment that bows down to France and the EU because of how profitable stealing Algeria's Gas and Oil is. Life in Algeria should be much better then it is for the average citizen. You really need to clarify what you said because the Algerian military is the source of the dictatorship in the country, they are not some benevolent power defeating Islamists injected by intelligence agencies into a Student-led protest.

Also, the tens of thousands killed by the IDF or so is nothing compared to the amount killed in the past 70 years or so (nearly millions of Palestinians if not in the low seven digits), Palestinians losing their homes, families, kids, life, and living in hell. I know you won't address this but just FYI, the west bank has been shrinking and undergoing apartheid where Palestinians live in terrible conditions. Any justifiable reason for that besides crying about Hamas? But it's all good because of Hamas, totally fine to let these people who have done nothing wrong to lose their homes and families and lives.

I just think its crazy how the only line you said about Palestinian lives in the last few pages or so was "I have empathy for the Palestinian people" then you added a "but,...". There is no "but". There is no justification of the genocide and ethnic cleansing the Palestinian people are going through.

@sportsczy I think you're dangerously dehumanizing Gazans. Yes, their civilians participated in the attack, kidnapped people and kept them as hostages, but that hardly applies to all. 44% of Gazans are 14yo or less, are they truly to blame for the decisions of some oligarchs living in Qatar? If Israel continues down this path it will permanently become an international pariah state.

@pedram surprised you're arguing for escalation of violence. What's the end goal here? Peace or getting back Palestinians land? Because if it's the 2nd it's hard to see how that could happen without wiping out millions of people...

@fennecfox7 in one sentence you stand for peace and in the next you justify Hamas' violence as "the only choice Palestinians have". Can't have it both ways.

You misunderstand me. It’s not as if Hamas is a good choice. I would prefer they did not exist if we are being honest. The Palestinians do not have free elections like we do. I’m saying when you are living in hell, you will do anything to fight for your life. The condemn Hamas thing is so tiring honestly. Especially when they are there by design and Israel’s puppet

I am not advocating for the destruction of Israel. That’s completely insane and also just as barbaric. I am not an anti semite. I’m advocating for a right of return for Palestinians and reparations paid and a one state solution.

FennecFox7 wrote:You misunderstand me. It’s not as if Hamas is a good choice. I would prefer they did not exist if we are being honest. The Palestinians do not have free elections like we do. I’m saying when you are living in hell, you will do anything to fight for your life. The condemn Hamas thing is so tiring honestly. Especially when they are there by design and Israel’s puppet

If you are living in hell, you will do anything to escape it, except consider peace? This whole rhetoric that fighting back is the "only" thing Palestine can do is incredibly damaging to Palestinians, who remain stateless, in horrible living conditions and with no hope for improvement.

Peace has been around the corner many times in this conflict. The hold up is always the right of return, which is what tanked the Camp David talks 20 years ago. Are Palestinians any closer to securing that now? If they were to relax that in favor of some other concession most experts think they would get a deal. But it's hard to see how that could come about with Hamas, who depend on the conflict remaining ongoing.

I am not advocating for the destruction of Israel. That’s completely insane and also just as barbaric. I am not an anti semite. I’m advocating for a right of return for Palestinians and reparations paid and a one state solution.

These countries have been fighting each other for 75 years. Most Israelis do not want to lose the Jewish majority of the state. Most Palestinians still believe in armed struggle against Israel to get back their former lands. You and I might think it would be nice for them to make up and live peacefully side by side, but in reality the people that live there don't want a one state solution and if they had one it would very likely be a precursor for a very violent civil war.

BarrileteCosmico wrote:

FennecFox7 wrote:You misunderstand me. It’s not as if Hamas is a good choice. I would prefer they did not exist if we are being honest. The Palestinians do not have free elections like we do. I’m saying when you are living in hell, you will do anything to fight for your life. The condemn Hamas thing is so tiring honestly. Especially when they are there by design and Israel’s puppet

If you are living in hell, you will do anything to escape it, except consider peace? This whole rhetoric that fighting back is the "only" thing Palestine can do is incredibly damaging to Palestinians, who remain stateless, in horrible living conditions and with no hope for improvement.

Peace has been around the corner many times in this conflict. The hold up is always the right of return, which is what tanked the Camp David talks 20 years ago. Are Palestinians any closer to securing that now? If they were to relax that in favor of some other concession most experts think they would get a deal. But it's hard to see how that could come about with Hamas, who depend on the conflict remaining ongoing.

I am not advocating for the destruction of Israel. That’s completely insane and also just as barbaric. I am not an anti semite. I’m advocating for a right of return for Palestinians and reparations paid and a one state solution.

These countries have been fighting each other for 75 years. Most Israelis do not want to lose the Jewish majority of the state. Most Palestinians still believe in armed struggle against Israel to get back their former lands. You and I might think it would be nice for them to make up and live peacefully side by side, but in reality the people that live there don't want a one state solution and if they had one it would very likely be a precursor for a very violent civil war.

lol read this again BC, you just contradicted yourself in your two replies

Please spell it out for me, don't see it.

call them out for not considering "peace" and then being understanding that they don't consider it

Ah got it. I think as a people Palestinians would be much better off of they negotiated a peaceful solution. As Hamas, the ilegal governing body, it would hurt them as they have a vested interested in continuing the escalations to justify their grasp to power.

What would your proposal for a solution be? I disagree that the Palestinians would be blood thirsty for Israeli blood. Is that the case in the West Bank?

pic.twitter.com/lmzraFtmfA

— illuminatibot (@iluminatibot) October 21, 2024

BarrileteCosmico wrote:
@pedram surprised you're arguing for escalation of violence. What's the end goal here? Peace or getting back Palestinians land? Because if it's the 2nd it's hard to see how that could happen without wiping out millions of people...

I know it's been some time since we were having this discussion but i've came to the conclusion that the only solution is to just send the Jews with European ancestry (Ashkenazi and secular ones) back to where they came from, which is the current day Poland and other former Soviet states. basically cancel the settler colonial project and consider Zionism as failed.

Frankly the problem originated from the European side and they're responsible for the current mess in the region. they started this by immigrating these people to Arab lands and causing strife in the Middle East.

I know it's insensitive to just kick the problem back to Europeans but unless Israel somehow accepts a one state solution and ends the apartheid, i don't see an end to this conflict other than one side completely annihilating the other side.

She’s carrying her sister on her feet for more than 2km pic.twitter.com/doZtDU9EHZ

— The Palestinian (@InsiderWorld_1) October 21, 2024

Man this video destroyed me. fuck all politicians for doing nothing and letting this brutality continue.

Pedram wrote:I know it's been some time since we were having this discussion but i've came to the conclusion that the only solution is to just send the Jews with European ancestry (Ashkenazi and secular ones) back to where they came from, which is the current day Poland and other former Soviet states. basically cancel the settler colonial project and consider Zionism as failed.

Thats not where they originated from tho. They migrated to Eastern Europe and otherwise from regions that encompass today's Israel, Palestine, Egypt (Sinai), Lebanon and Jordan

And these jews dont see it as a colonial project but rather a return to their roots

Myesyats wrote:

Pedram wrote:I know it's been some time since we were having this discussion but i've came to the conclusion that the only solution is to just send the Jews with European ancestry (Ashkenazi and secular ones) back to where they came from, which is the current day Poland and other former Soviet states. basically cancel the settler colonial project and consider Zionism as failed.

And these jews dont see it as a colonial project but rather a return to their roots

It doesn't matter what the current day Zionists pretend what they are doing. Zionism has always been a colonial project, it's just that they were more frank about it when colonialism wasn't a taboo word. recently even Wikipedia clarified what the ideology is all about, in case some people were looking at the Israel project with rose colored glasses.



Btw Gaza is next.

'This is our land, we deserve it': Dozens of Israelis planning to cross border and settle in Gaza

Read morehttps://t.co/BAhh3PHWCu

— Sky News (@SkyNews) October 22, 2024

And then Syria, Jordan and even parts of Saudi Arabia. they are not really hiding their long term objectives.

WATCH: “It is written that the future of Jerusalem is to expand to Damascus.”

— Israel’s finance minister Bezalel Smotrich says he wants a “Jewish state” which expands to Palestine, Syria, Iraq, Lebanon, Jordan, Egypt and Saudi Arabia

That’s a bit much? pic.twitter.com/lbccC3taOD

— Lord Bebo (@MyLordBebo) October 10, 2024

Yes they see genocide as necessary to their survival, maybe we need to send them to space where they can assemble their space lasers in peace?