It isn't Wenger's fault?

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Post by Iceman Mon Aug 22, 2011 1:11 am

Take from this article what you will. It gives no sources, but it explains everything that has been going around the club. Doesn't leave much room for discrepancies. I personally choose to believe this. The board is the one that is causing the trouble, not Arsene. He's actually trying to do what we all want him to do: Spend money on quality players. Its the board that isn't allowing him to do so, and are limiting him in transfer funds as well as wages.

Anyway, here's the article:

According to an unnamed source Arsene Wenger is at loggerheads with the Board over how the transfer budget should be spent. I am not at liberty to name that source, but I believe the information I received explains the current impasse at Arsenal. Before I explain what the differences between them are, let me make it clear that there is a substantial transfer budget that has to not only cover transfer fees but wages of incoming players and contract improvements of those already here.

The Board and Wenger are both in agreement that , to avoid the situation the club has encountered with Clichy and Nasri this summer, star men like Van Persie and Vermaelen and others with only two years left on their contract need to be offered new long term contracts with big pay rises.



And this is where the first difference of opinion has arisen between manager and club, The Board believe that offering to rise a players wage from £60K - £70K a week to £90K or £100K is more than enough, but Wenger believes that this is not enough, when City, Utd and Chelsea are paying their best(£180K - £250K), and that if we want to keep our best players we have to go to the next level, he wants the pay scale risen to £150K for our best.



This brings us neatly on to the next bone of contention between manager and club, the calibre of signing we can make. Both Wenger and the Board agree that to even maintain a top four spot, let alone win the title, several new signings are required.



The Board are willing to pay big transfer fees, as is Wenger (he is not lying when he says he would pay £30M - £40M), it is also where the difference of opinion comes. The Board would willingly meet the transfer fee, but will not meet the sort of wage demands a £30M signings asks for.



Wenger had a four pronged squad plan this summer,



1 Keep our best players
2 Buy in top level players to improve the team
3 Sign young players with big potential
4 Promote from within



Wenger has done parts 3 and 4. He wanted to do part 1 and 2 by Nasri being offered a massive contract so he would stay, and he hoped to persuade Cesc to stay one more year, with not only a new contract but with the calibre of player he signed. Wenger wanted Mata and Benzema, he still wants Hazzard, wages more than anything else are ruling out Mata and Benzema.



The Board had no problem meeting the Juan Mata transfer fee, but once Chelsea let it be known to his agents what they would offer, it blew Arsenal’s contract offer out of the water. We ran into the same situation with Jones and Utd.



People ask why have Arsenal not signed Cahill, Dann or Samba etc, well its simple really, Wenger wants better players, the Board want him to sign the above level of player, as it sits with their wage scale, Arsene wants the next level up, a Subotic, a Hummells, but they come with not only high transfer fees but with massive wage demands.

Wenger would rather not sign a player at all, than sign someone for a big fee who he considers no better than what we have, the board have asked him to reconsider this stance, and that is why Cahill and Dann have been scouted this late in the window, Arsene sees them as not as good as Koscielny, and thinks it is the wrong way to use his budget, he wants better quality for the first 11, the board just want him to make signings to appease the fans.



Wenger had a major discussion with Kroenke and the Board on Members day. He was told in no uncertain terms that Nasri would have to be sold if he did not sign a contract, and between them they came to the decision to let Cesc go for less than his worth. But Wenger fought his corner, and made it clear the sort of player he wants and that our star men have to be given contract that will keep them, as you can not build if every year there is doubts who are staying and who are going. Arsene also reiterated his view that we need top quality players, not just one as good or possibly slightly better, and that these players come at a premium cost and that the club has to go up a level not only on fees but on wages.



Arsene Wenger is a company man, and will not come out with any of this, while under contract, no matter how much flack he takes, and that is why his comments in the media, since the Members day meeting, have been more for the ears of Stan and Ivan than for the fans, he is warning them. He wont’ walk, and it will cost the club dear to sack him, and even more to shut him up if he is sacked, if they thought the deal David Dein struck with Bruce Rioch to keep him quiet was expensive, they will be blown away by what it will take to buy Arsene Wenger’s silence.



Who wins this battle of wills may define not only what happens to Arsenal’s season, but for many seasons to come.

-----------------------------------------------
http://www.thefootballnetwork.net/main/s378/st170548.htm
-----------------------------------------------

Take from it what you will, but Arsene has been blamed for far too much even though it wasn't his fault. This is what I choose to believe, anyway.
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Post by Ali Mon Aug 22, 2011 1:18 am

I agree 100% , when he retires and releases a book it will reveal so much!
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Post by bloodless Mon Aug 22, 2011 1:21 am

there's definitely more to this than the eye sees

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Post by lenear1030 Mon Aug 22, 2011 1:22 am

that article could be 100% true but i think i speak for most of us supporters that we dont care who's to blame, we just want things to happen
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Post by kiranr Mon Aug 22, 2011 1:23 am

If it is true, the board should not be allowed to continue this way. Fans should boycott the matches and then let us see what the board does.

Wenger's allegiance should be towards the fans and hence should let the truth out...
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Post by JuvenelCuore Mon Aug 22, 2011 1:27 am

It is not Wenger's fault in my opinion. I think the only reason people think it is his fault is because he is not reacting to the Cesc departure. His departure was imminent, it was only a question of when.

But people expect, and rightfully so, for him to replace Cesc with the money he was given, but Wenger is somewhat stingy, but I believe its due to the board, right ?
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Post by BeautifulGame Mon Aug 22, 2011 1:33 am

There is some simple logic mistakes from the article so dont know how anyone would believe everything that the article says.Maybe its true partially and about increasing the wage structure but dont make any sense with the explanation of the signings.

If its true that Arsenal wanted to pay huge fee for Mata why not wrap it up before chelsea interest earlier in the window? Dont say Fabregas saga was the concern.Its pretty much clear to every dog and his man that he will leave this season.So why not buy a replace for him earlier in the window itself?

If need of high quality defenders is why he havent bid for Cahill then why make for Lescott who is similar quality but every older?

And Subotic or Hummels are on relatively cheap wages so its nonsense to say its their wages why they cant be signed for Arsenal.

And finally most there are plenty of 30 mil players that will improve Arsenal and wont demand high wages.Only those already playing for big clubs are on high wages not every quality player as the article is trying to make out.


Last edited by BeautifulGame on Mon Aug 22, 2011 1:34 am; edited 1 time in total
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Post by mr-r34 Mon Aug 22, 2011 1:33 am

The Pity train comes for Wenger, but everyone who knew nothing bashed Rafa.
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Post by Iceman Mon Aug 22, 2011 1:33 am

I believe that Wenger has been taking way too much heat for what has been going on. He doesn't have as much power as he did before, mainly due to silent Stan's involvement now, as well as having less allies amongst the board (Especially after 2007). Everybody is blaming Wenger for our current state. They think of him as a worse manager because he isn't willing to buy, when the truth is that the board is what is limiting him. It makes sense...We're always in for a player, but then suddenly the links go cold.

We have one week to fix this. God knows what will happen if we don't
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Post by JuvenelCuore Mon Aug 22, 2011 1:38 am

mr-r34 wrote:The Pity train comes for Wenger, but everyone who knew nothing bashed Rafa.

Wenger has been at Arsenal since '96 if I recall. He has done so much for the club whereas Rafa was at Liverpool for only about six years, and they have had much more different impacts.
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Post by BeautifulGame Mon Aug 22, 2011 1:39 am

Iceman wrote:I believe that Wenger has been taking way too much heat for what has been going on. He doesn't have as much power as he did before, mainly due to silent Stan's involvement now, as well as having less allies amongst the board (Especially after 2007). Everybody is blaming Wenger for our current state. They think of him as a worse manager because he isn't willing to buy, when the truth is that the board is what is limiting him. It makes sense...We're always in for a player, but then suddenly the links go cold.

We have one week to fix this. God knows what will happen if we don't

Well if he then have to say we will spend depeding upon our rsources.That will take a lot of heat away from him.Wouldnt it?

Its him keep on repeating the same lines "Arsenal have money but will only spend when i find right players" is putting pressure on wenger.
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Post by Iceman Mon Aug 22, 2011 1:42 am

BeautifulGame wrote:There is some simple logic mistakes from the article so dont know how anyone would believe that.Maybe its true about increasing the wage structure but dont make any sense with the explanation of the signings.

If its true thathat Arsenal wanted to pay huge fee for Mata why not wrap it up before chelsea interest earlier in the window? Dont say Fabregas saga was the concern.Its pretty much clear to every dog and his man that he will leave this season.So why not buy a replace for him earlier in the window itself?

Wenger truly believed that he could make Cesc stay for one more year. He was blinded just like a father or mother would be blinded from mistakes that their kids make. Maybe there was an actual chance that Fabregas would stay, and the decision to let him go came very very late in the market. That part has to be noted. Fabregas only left last week. Surely if it was clear that he was going to leave, then the deal would have been wrapped up a lot sooner?

BeautifulGame wrote: If need of high quality defenders is why he havent bid for Cahill then why make for Lescott who is similar quality but every older?

Could you perhaps rephrase this part?

BeautifulGame wrote:And Subotic or Hummels are on relatively cheap wagesso its nonsense to say its their wages why they cant be signed for Arsenal.

And finally most there are plenty of 30 mil players that will improve Arsenal and wont demand high wages.Only those already playing for big clubs are on high wages not every quality player as the article is trying to make out.

"Relatively cheap" isn't exactly "Cheap" for Arsenal. Our HIGHEST earner makes 110k/week, and thats RVP. If you take taxes into account (which takes away ~50% I believe) then RVP effectively makes 55k/week. That is how much our highest paid player is making. The board is refusing to up his wages to 150k/week...Do you honestly think they'd go for players that would probably demand even higher wages than that? This is why AW wants to increase all of the wages at the club, especially the top players' wages. To have a better wage-structure where we can lure in the best players without upsetting our current players. For example, if we get in Subotic and he takes 150k/week, then RVP will be extremely pissed I'd imagine.

The club has been recently linked with several of these players that wouldn't demand high wages, as you mentioned, but luring them into the club will need us to put up higher wages than what they are already making. Still, I'd like for you to mention some names that would be a definite improvement and won't demand high wages.
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Post by Iceman Mon Aug 22, 2011 1:44 am

BeautifulGame wrote:
Iceman wrote:I believe that Wenger has been taking way too much heat for what has been going on. He doesn't have as much power as he did before, mainly due to silent Stan's involvement now, as well as having less allies amongst the board (Especially after 2007). Everybody is blaming Wenger for our current state. They think of him as a worse manager because he isn't willing to buy, when the truth is that the board is what is limiting him. It makes sense...We're always in for a player, but then suddenly the links go cold.

We have one week to fix this. God knows what will happen if we don't

Well if he then have to say we will spend depeding upon our rsources.That will take a lot of heat away from him.Wouldnt it?

Its him keep on repeating the same lines "Arsenal have money but will only spend when i find right players" is putting pressure on wenger.

Wenger said that he's willing to spend 30-40 million on the right players. He said that he is working day and night in order to get the players that we need. There isn't much more that he can do. You can think of ways to rephrase his current stance, but it doesn't make a difference. He can't just declare war on the board over the media you know
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Post by mr-r34 Mon Aug 22, 2011 1:46 am

JuvenelCuore wrote:
mr-r34 wrote:The Pity train comes for Wenger, but everyone who knew nothing bashed Rafa.

Wenger has been at Arsenal since '96 if I recall. He has done so much for the club whereas Rafa was at Liverpool for only about six years, and they have had much more different impacts.

Rafa had a huge impact at the club, ask the fans, he is still one of the most loved coaches to be part of the team, he brought us the CL in 05, our first real major trophy since 1990(CL and PL imo only count as MAJOR trophy's). It still doesn't change the fact that, when Rafa was restricted by the owners, he was labeled as a shit manager and everything was his fault. Every other clubs fans only knew about the performance side and didn't know anything about the financial side, but they still blamed it all on him.
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Post by cyberman Mon Aug 22, 2011 1:46 am

Obv a leaked story to take pressure off Wenger

They pay outrageous wages to their youngsters, wages arent the issue.
Utd havent a team of big earners...Rooney and maybe Rio

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Post by Iceman Mon Aug 22, 2011 1:48 am

Leaked story to an online forum instead of newspapers and football magazines? Way to get the word out..
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Post by Amar Mon Aug 22, 2011 1:50 am

Iceman wrote:I believe that Wenger has been taking way too much heat for what has been going on. He doesn't have as much power as he did before, mainly due to silent Stan's involvement now, as well as having less allies amongst the board (Especially after 2007).

I totally agree.

In the golden years, he had the full backing from David Dein and Danny Fiszman, and knew he could go to them with any problems and get immediate action from the board. As soon as Dein left, Wenger lost an ally, and a very influential board member, and when Fiszman passed away a couple of months ago, Wenger and Arsenal lost arguably its most loyal supporter.

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Post by JuvenelCuore Mon Aug 22, 2011 1:50 am

mr-r34 wrote:
JuvenelCuore wrote:
mr-r34 wrote:The Pity train comes for Wenger, but everyone who knew nothing bashed Rafa.

Wenger has been at Arsenal since '96 if I recall. He has done so much for the club whereas Rafa was at Liverpool for only about six years, and they have had much more different impacts.

Rafa had a huge impact at the club, ask the fans, he is still one of the most loved coaches to be part of the team, he brought us the CL in 05, our first real major trophy since 1990(CL and PL imo only count as MAJOR trophy's). It still doesn't change the fact that, when Rafa was restricted by the owners, he was labeled as a shit manager and everything was his fault. Every other clubs fans only knew about the performance side and didn't know anything about the financial side, but they still blamed it all on him.

Well in that respect, yes, but I mean, Wenger is a guy who has built the team, seen it torn down, and then did it all over. In terms of the biased, that is just the way these things tend to happen. One player does something, and is let go while the other does the same thing and is crucified for it.

Why has Rafa not been employed by a team yet ? Surely SOME team will take him ?
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Post by Jay29 Mon Aug 22, 2011 1:51 am

I saw this earlier and thought it sounded plausible, but without a confirmed source I can't really take it as fact. I believe the majority of this is just one man making assumptions.

But even if the article itself might not be entirely factual, it does call attention the the fact that not all is quite right at Arsenal. This might just be me, but I do get a feeling that there's something wrong.

I'm not going to absolve Wenger of all criticism. Transfers aside, there are still issues on the field that need sorting. At the same time, most of my ire is going to be directed at the board because they are just as responsible for our stagnation and probable decline.

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Post by cyberman Mon Aug 22, 2011 1:52 am

an online forum? why is this presented as credible?

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Post by BeautifulGame Mon Aug 22, 2011 1:53 am

Iceman wrote:
Could you perhaps rephrase this part?

If he wants quality defenders like Subotic is the reason why he hasnt made a bid for Cahill then why try to sign Jagielka.(Sorry i confused Lescott with Jagielka Smile ) Jagielka isnt a better defender than Cahill and is older too.

Iceman wrote:

"Relatively cheap" isn't exactly "Cheap" for Arsenal. Our HIGHEST earner makes 110k/week, and thats RVP. If you take taxes into account (which takes away ~50% I believe) then RVP effectively makes 55k/week. That is how much our highest paid player is making. The board is refusing to up his wages to 150k/week...Do you honestly think they'd go for players that would probably demand even higher wages than that? This is why AW wants to increase all of the wages at the club, especially the top players' wages. To have a better wage-structure where we can lure in the best players without upsetting our current players. For example, if we get in Subotic and he takes 150k/week, then RVP will be extremely pissed I'd imagine.

The club has been recently linked with several of these players that wouldn't demand high wages, as you mentioned, but luring them into the club will need us to put up higher wages than what they are already making. Still, I'd like for you to mention some names that would be a definite improvement and won't demand high wages.

The likes of Subotic wont cost more than 60-70 k as they are earning similar with BVB.Though the thing is whether they will want to move or BVB would sell them is another matter.

There are plenty of quality players who would have improve arsenal and wont need to break the wage structure.That is if paying transfer fees is not the problem as the article indicates.We signed suarez his wages were only 80k including tax is a case in point.
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Post by Iceman Mon Aug 22, 2011 1:54 am

GoonerJay29 wrote:I saw this earlier and thought it sounded plausible, but without a confirmed source I can't really take it as fact. I believe the majority of this is just one man making assumptions.

But even if the article itself might not be entirely factual, it does call attention the the fact that not all is quite right at Arsenal. This might just be me, but I do get a feeling that there's something wrong.

I'm not going to absolve Wenger of all criticism. Transfers aside, there are still issues on the field that need sorting. At the same time, most of my ire is going to be directed at the board because they are just as responsible for our stagnation and probable decline.

Agreed, especially about the bit in red.
The problem is, right now, that I don't know who I'm supposed to blame exactly. This year is the first year that we actually have funds available to be used. Last year there were minimal funds available and the year before that, we only had a couple of million left after the purchase of Vermaelen. This year we have the money, but new problems have popped up that are causing such stagnation.

I choose to believe the article. Partly because I like Wenger too much, and so I don't want him to be the one at fault here, but also because it makes a lot of sense and explains almost everything that has been going around the club.
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Post by cyberman Mon Aug 22, 2011 1:58 am

You cant validate something just because it fits your POV

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Post by Iceman Mon Aug 22, 2011 2:00 am

BeautifulGame wrote:
Iceman wrote:
Could you perhaps rephrase this part?

If he wants quality defenders like Subotic is the reason why he hasnt made a bid for Cahill then why try to sign Jagielka.(Sorry i confused Lescott with Jagielka Smile ) Jagielka isnt a better defender than Cahill and is older too.

Wenger doesn't believe that any of these three players (Dann, Jagielka and Cahill) is better than the defenders at the club (Squillashit aside of course). He likes Jagielka more than the rest, and that part is obvious. You might not think he's better, but Wenger's scouts say differently.

BeautifulGame wrote:
Iceman wrote:

"Relatively cheap" isn't exactly "Cheap" for Arsenal. Our HIGHEST earner makes 110k/week, and thats RVP. If you take taxes into account (which takes away ~50% I believe) then RVP effectively makes 55k/week. That is how much our highest paid player is making. The board is refusing to up his wages to 150k/week...Do you honestly think they'd go for players that would probably demand even higher wages than that? This is why AW wants to increase all of the wages at the club, especially the top players' wages. To have a better wage-structure where we can lure in the best players without upsetting our current players. For example, if we get in Subotic and he takes 150k/week, then RVP will be extremely pissed I'd imagine.

The club has been recently linked with several of these players that wouldn't demand high wages, as you mentioned, but luring them into the club will need us to put up higher wages than what they are already making. Still, I'd like for you to mention some names that would be a definite improvement and won't demand high wages.

The likes of Subotic wont cost more than 60-70 k as they are earning similar with BVB.Though the thing is whether they will want to move or BVB would sell them is another matter.

There are plenty of quality players who would have improve arsenal and wont need to break the wage structure.That is if paying transfer fees is not the problem as the article indicates.We signed suarez his wages were only 80k including tax is a case in point.

We bought freakin Chamberlain on a deal worth 12-15 million. This just shows, right there, that the transfer fees aren't the main problem. Liverpool's wage structure is a bit screwed up though. You've got Joe Cole making 110k/week, Poulsen making like 70k/week I believe....Some incredible numbers there; but what you had when you signed Suarez was the backing of the board and the manager. This just isn't present here at Arsenal.
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Post by Arquitecto Mon Aug 22, 2011 2:03 am

Iceman wrote:
BeautifulGame wrote:
Iceman wrote:
Could you perhaps rephrase this part?

If he wants quality defenders like Subotic is the reason why he hasnt made a bid for Cahill then why try to sign Jagielka.(Sorry i confused Lescott with Jagielka Smile ) Jagielka isnt a better defender than Cahill and is older too.

Wenger doesn't believe that any of these three players (Dann, Jagielka and Cahill) is better than the defenders at the club (Squillashit aside of course). He likes Jagielka more than the rest, and that part is obvious. You might not think he's better, but Wenger's scouts say differently.

BeautifulGame wrote:
Iceman wrote:

"Relatively cheap" isn't exactly "Cheap" for Arsenal. Our HIGHEST earner makes 110k/week, and thats RVP. If you take taxes into account (which takes away ~50% I believe) then RVP effectively makes 55k/week. That is how much our highest paid player is making. The board is refusing to up his wages to 150k/week...Do you honestly think they'd go for players that would probably demand even higher wages than that? This is why AW wants to increase all of the wages at the club, especially the top players' wages. To have a better wage-structure where we can lure in the best players without upsetting our current players. For example, if we get in Subotic and he takes 150k/week, then RVP will be extremely pissed I'd imagine.

The club has been recently linked with several of these players that wouldn't demand high wages, as you mentioned, but luring them into the club will need us to put up higher wages than what they are already making. Still, I'd like for you to mention some names that would be a definite improvement and won't demand high wages.

The likes of Subotic wont cost more than 60-70 k as they are earning similar with BVB.Though the thing is whether they will want to move or BVB would sell them is another matter.

There are plenty of quality players who would have improve arsenal and wont need to break the wage structure.That is if paying transfer fees is not the problem as the article indicates.We signed suarez his wages were only 80k including tax is a case in point.

We bought freakin Chamberlain on a deal worth 12-15 million. This just shows, right there, that the transfer fees aren't the main problem. Liverpool's wage structure is a bit screwed up though. You've got Joe Cole making 110k/week, Poulsen making like 70k/week I believe....Some incredible numbers there; but what you had when you signed Suarez was the backing of the board and the manager. This just isn't present here at Arsenal.

Poulsen was brought in by the hand of the coach who must not be named and given the green light to be paid that much by "the manager who must not be named"

Cole? We all expected J.Cole to come in for us.

Instead what we got was an unfit and bloated steven seagal.

Both of them don't earn the same salary anymore I believe.
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