Spain NT discussion

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Post by Hapless_Hans Fri Jun 20, 2014 11:29 pm

Jesus, stop bad mouthing Casillas, just because he's old now and had a bad tournament. As had anyone else.
Was one of the world's best keepers, if not the best, for years and years.
'Just a shot stopper'  Rolling Eyes 

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Post by Donuts Sat Jun 21, 2014 2:50 am

meh i'd take prime buffon over him
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Post by zigra Sat Jun 21, 2014 11:27 am

So 2nd best in the world. Doesn't sound as bad as "just a shot stopper".
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Post by harhar11 Sat Jun 21, 2014 12:26 pm

Hapless_Hans wrote:Jesus, stop bad mouthing Casillas, just because he's old now and had a bad tournament. As had anyone else.
Was one of the world's best keepers, if not the best, for years and years.
'Just a shot stopper'  Rolling Eyes 


Don't get me wrong, I considered Casillas to be the best goalkeeper in the world during his prime. But Casillas has always had problems with crosses, he has never really been comfortable with the ball in his feet, although tbf it's not really an important aspect for a goalkeeper, and his position is questionable, all of which he has always been criticized for in Spain.

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Post by The Franchise Sat Jun 21, 2014 12:55 pm

Why is "ok" that Iker is past it now? He is 33...goalies traditionally arent finished at this age. And its not like this switch flipped recently, he been mad questionable for going on for like half a decade and its only increasing in numbers of who believe this.
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Post by rwo power Sat Jun 21, 2014 1:15 pm

Well, I respect what Iker Casillas did for Real Madrid and the Spanish NT, but as you obviously noticed I have never really been a fan of his. In my opinion there have been goalies that would have been preferable to him for quite a while.
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Post by futbol Sat Jun 21, 2014 1:17 pm

People forget how shaky Casillas was even in the 2010 World Cup. Up until the final he was actually heavily criticized, go and watch the Robson review about Espana "behind the scenes". Here is an example against Portugal, watch how he spills the shots at 1:17 and 1:52:



It's just pure luck no one capitalizes. Pretty much the same mistake he made against Sanchez' freekick this World Cup, parading the ball back into the box into traffic. This time luck isn't on his side and that's the only difference.

Obviously the Robben save in the final is the only moment remembered in hindsight and when you are a Madrid youth product your achievements get blown out of proportion heavily. Still remember the 2012 Casillas Ballon d'Or campaign from Marca. Laughing

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Post by RealGunner Sat Jun 21, 2014 1:32 pm

Xabi Alonso set to retire from international football after this tournament.
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Post by messixaviesta Sat Jun 21, 2014 1:44 pm

Fußball wrote:Still remember the 2012 Casillas Ballon d'Or campaign from Marca. Laughing

Truth be told I was backing him for Ballon D'or in 2008. In those days he was sublime. Later he may have become more error prone but where he invariably stood out for me is that he was a miracle worker. In the tightest most difficult of situations I wouldn't back any goalkeeper to pull a rabbit out of his hat as much as Casillas. Xavi said something similar some time back with his comment that when all is lost Casillas gives you a new lifeline.




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Post by messixaviesta Sat Jun 21, 2014 1:47 pm

RealGunner wrote:Xabi Alonso set to retire from international football after this tournament.


I wish Xavi, David Villa, Fernando Torres, Iker Casillas and Pepe Reina make the same declaration well before the last game against Australia. More names could be added to this list that I missed. Rather than this concept of playing for pride which doesn't cut any ice with me I want to see a pressure less last game which is like a testimonial for the erstwhile heroes of this team who are now making their exits.

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Post by harhar11 Sat Jun 21, 2014 8:29 pm

Fußball wrote:Still remember the 2012 Casillas Ballon d'Or campaign from Marca. Laughing


The funny thing is that most madridistas agreed that Casillas deserved the ballon d'or, which was to be expected, but one month after that, Mou heavily criticized Casillas and said that Adan had been better than Casillas, who had been off form over a season or something like that, and suddenly all of those who were asking for Casillas to win the ballon d'or, suddenly thought that he had been sh*te for over a year rofl

messixaviesta wrote:
RealGunner wrote:Xabi Alonso set to retire from international football after this tournament.


I wish Xavi, David Villa, Fernando Torres, Iker Casillas and Pepe Reina make the same declaration well before the last game against Australia. More names could be added to this list that I missed. Rather than this concept of playing for pride which doesn't cut any ice with me I want to see a pressure less last game which is like a testimonial for the erstwhile heroes of this team who are now making their exits.


I belive they will, atleast Xavi and Villa. And if IIRC, Xavi wanted to retire from the national team after the 2012 Euro, but then Del Bosque asked him to change his mind. Another one of Del Bosque's super idea's..


Last edited by harhar11 on Sat Jun 21, 2014 9:57 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by farfan Sat Jun 21, 2014 9:01 pm

so harhar, what's up with this " we " thing when talking about spain ? what happened to swedish guy of chilean descent ?
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Post by harhar11 Sat Jun 21, 2014 9:56 pm

farfan wrote:so harhar, what's up with this " we " thing when talking about spain ? what happened to swedish guy of chilean descent ?


I have said "we" when talking about Spain? scratch 

Before I used to always cheer for Spain because of the Barca players, but since the madrid media has done everything they can to destabilize Barça and because the spanish Barça player's has already won everything they can win with the NT, I was cheering against Spain and have been quite happy with them being elimanted, Casillas being so bad as he has been and Xabi Alonso assisting our, Chile, first goal has given me even more joy. So where have I used this "we" that you are talking about so I can correct it?

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Post by messixaviesta Sat Jun 21, 2014 10:18 pm

harhar11 wrote:And if IIRC, Xavi wanted to retire from the national team after the 2012 Euro, but then Del Bosque asked him to change his mind. Another one of Del Bosque's super idea's..

I don't think Del Bosque did anything wrong there. He encouraged Xavi to retire from international football after a world cup just as most great players do.


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Post by harhar11 Sat Jun 21, 2014 10:49 pm

messixaviesta wrote:
harhar11 wrote:And if IIRC, Xavi wanted to retire from the national team after the 2012 Euro, but then Del Bosque asked him to change his mind. Another one of Del Bosque's super idea's..

I don't think Del Bosque did anything wrong there. He encouraged Xavi to retire from international football after a world cup just as most great players do.



If Xavi wanted to retire from international football, he must have known that he was not at that level anymore..

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Post by farfan Sat Jun 21, 2014 11:00 pm

harhar11 wrote:
farfan wrote:so harhar, what's up with this " we " thing when talking about spain ? what happened to swedish guy of chilean descent ?


I have said "we" when talking about Spain? scratch 

Before I used to always cheer for Spain because of the Barca players, but since the madrid media has done everything they can to destabilize Barça and because the spanish Barça player's has already won everything they can win with the NT, I was cheering against Spain and have been quite happy with them being elimanted, Casillas being so bad as he has been and Xabi Alonso assisting our, Chile, first goal has given me even more joy. So where have I used this "we" that you are talking about so I can correct it?

--->
harhar11 wrote:
Higuain09 wrote:
harhar11 wrote:Xavi declined, Barcelona and Spain declined. Xavi the best spanish footballer of all time!
Good excuse. All of them are declined, including messi, alves, pique, casillas. Another good excuse is Guardiola left and tiki taka died


Iniesta was actually the only decent player from Spain today, so he hasn't decline 100%. Pique was still pretty bad in 11, not as bad today, but not at his best either, and .yet we won the WC Alves nor Messi plays for Spain. Casillas I agree with.

you probably meant CL .

i'm pretty sure barça's problems had nothing to do with over the hill players, shit managers, bad transfer deals, corrupt management etc... it was all a big fat conspiracy spearheaded by the real madrid " media " . Laughing


but since the madrid media has done everything they can to destabilize Barça

classic harhar Laughing typical victim attitude .
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Post by Adit Sat Jun 21, 2014 11:07 pm

The Franchise wrote:Why is "ok" that Iker is past it now? He is 33...goalies traditionally arent finished at this agve. And its not like this switch flipped recently, he been mad questionable for going on for like half a decade and its only increasing in numbers of who believe this.


He was the best gk up until 2011. You are wrong way off if you think this world cup form has been his default form and u know it. He also was the best gk in euro asking with buffon in 2012.

May be he just got lazy he won it all...but this form is due to him not playing enough games. He played like 18 games this whole season.... If you have played this position (I does) u will know not playing consistently makes your firm even go lower.. That's why most of the second gk play terribly when called up.
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Post by harhar11 Sat Jun 21, 2014 11:50 pm

farfan wrote:
harhar11 wrote:
farfan wrote:so harhar, what's up with this " we " thing when talking about spain ? what happened to swedish guy of chilean descent ?


I have said "we" when talking about Spain? scratch 

Before I used to always cheer for Spain because of the Barca players, but since the madrid media has done everything they can to destabilize Barça and because the spanish Barça player's has already won everything they can win with the NT, I was cheering against Spain and have been quite happy with them being elimanted, Casillas being so bad as he has been and Xabi Alonso assisting our, Chile, first goal has given me even more joy. So where have I used this "we" that you are talking about so I can correct it?

--->
harhar11 wrote:
Higuain09 wrote:
Good excuse. All of them are declined, including messi, alves, pique, casillas. Another good excuse is Guardiola left and tiki taka died


Iniesta was actually the only decent player from Spain today, so he hasn't decline 100%. Pique was still pretty bad in 11, not as bad today, but not at his best either, and .yet we won the WC Alves nor Messi plays for Spain. Casillas I agree with.

you probably meant CL .

i'm pretty sure barça's problems had nothing to do with over the hill players, shit managers, bad transfer deals, corrupt management etc... it was all a big fat conspiracy spearheaded by the real madrid " media " . Laughing


but since the madrid media has done everything they can to destabilize Barça

classic harhar Laughing typical victim attitude .


Obviously a spelling mistake.


And what I mean with destabilizing was the Madrid media saying that Messi insulted Arbeloa in the parking the lot, calling Karaka a puppet, that he was involved in a drug scandal in Colombia(something that even the Colombian police department denied), that the Barça players were on steroids just to name a few.

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Post by farfan Sat Jun 21, 2014 11:57 pm

the thing with karanka actually happened, and it was confirmed by callejon and other eyewitnesses ... hardly a " real madrid media " made up story .

the steroid allegations about spanish athletes are global and include real madrid themselves.. especially after the blood bags controversy .

the drug thing is a silly rumour that doesn't even merit a serious response .

again , stop with this pitty BS .
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Post by harhar11 Sun Jun 22, 2014 12:07 am

farfan wrote:the thing with karanka actually happened, and it was confirmed by callejon and other  eyewitnesses ... hardly  a " real madrid media " made up story .

the steroid allegations about spanish athletes are global and include real madrid themselves.. especially after the blood bags  controversy .

the drug thing is a silly rumour that doesn't even merit a serious response .

again , stop with this pitty BS .


The same Callejon who was caught lying? And why should I trust Callejons words over Alba, who denied it? And I do also recall a journalist, who works for Real Madrid, denying it on twitter.

I am talking about a seperate steroid allegations, where they only mention Barça. In the end Barca successfully sued them.

Why doesn't it merit a serious response? It was "El País" who said that Messi and his father were laundering money for some Colombian cartels.

And btw, I do know that Barça has deteriorated because of old age and not because of the campaign from the media. All I said is that I stopped caring for the Spanish NT because of that. I never said that they succeeded.

--

Also, I at no point considered the Neymar farce to be one of these cases of where the Madrid media was trying to destabilize the club, seing as it was socio who sued the president..

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Post by farfan Sun Jun 22, 2014 12:55 am

how is real madrid responsible for what media outlets like el pais write ?
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Post by messixaviesta Sun Jun 22, 2014 10:19 am

harhar11 wrote:
messixaviesta wrote:
harhar11 wrote:And if IIRC, Xavi wanted to retire from the national team after the 2012 Euro, but then Del Bosque asked him to change his mind. Another one of Del Bosque's super idea's..

I don't think Del Bosque did anything wrong there. He encouraged Xavi to retire from international football after a world cup just as most great players do.



If Xavi wanted to retire from international football, he must have known that he was not at that level anymore..

No he probably just wanted to conserve energy for club football and Del Bosque convinced him not to give up on the world cup. I completely support what he did and so would others if the outcome had been much different. I even dreamed of a Zidane 2006 (without the head butt) kind of swansong for Xavi but alas.

Anyway the bigger question for me is just how much has Xavi declined. Is it more a case of him not being given the right system to play in given his age? I commented yesterday that I would like to see him in the kind of system Pirlo plays in i.e. willing runners and workers all around him and complete right to control everything.

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Post by messixaviesta Sun Jun 22, 2014 10:23 am

Adit wrote:this form is due to him not playing enough games. He played like 18 games this whole season.... If you have played this position (I does) u will know not playing consistently makes your firm even go lower.. That's why most of the second gk play terribly when called up.

Which means you are really scaring me for Argentina because Romero hardly played all of last season.




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Post by neuro11 Sun Jun 22, 2014 11:10 am

Adit wrote:
The Franchise wrote:Why is "ok" that Iker is past it now? He is 33...goalies traditionally arent finished at this agve. And its not like this switch flipped recently, he been mad questionable for going on for like half a decade and its only increasing in numbers of who believe this.


He was the best gk up until 2011. You are wrong way off if you think this world cup form has been his default form and u know it. He also was the best gk in euro asking with buffon in 2012.

May be he just got lazy he won it all...but this form is due to him not playing enough games. He played like 18 games this whole season.... If you have played this position (I does) u will know not playing consistently makes your firm even go lower.. That's why most of the second gk play terribly when called up.

May be, but then why would VDB, a world class coach would not understand this simple math when he has such other great ranks to choose from...In fact many thought because Casillas was benched for most of the season, may be Valdez atlast will have a chance in this WC and that is until he got injured. But i never doubted that Casillas would be VDB's first choice no matter what happens...

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Post by sportsczy Sun Jun 22, 2014 11:20 am

The thing is though, Iker played most of the last month for Madrid since he had all the CL games and Carlo played him 2 of the last 3 La Liga games to keep him in form...  Keepers don't need a ton of games to get it back.  From April 29 through May 24, he started 4 games...  and also started an additional 4 games from April 1-29.

So really, i don't think this "lack of playing time" argument is valid for Iker so much since he started a game a week the last 2 months of the season.
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Post by Adit Sun Jun 22, 2014 11:24 am

neuro11 wrote:
Adit wrote:
The Franchise wrote:Why is "ok" that Iker is past it now? He is 33...goalies traditionally arent finished at this agve. And its not like this switch flipped recently, he been mad questionable for going on for like half a decade and its only increasing in numbers of who believe this.


He was the best gk up until 2011. You are wrong way off if you think this world cup form has been his default form and u know it. He also was the best gk in euro asking with buffon in 2012.

May be he just got lazy he won it all...but this form is due to him not playing enough games. He played like 18 games this whole season.... If you have played this position (I does) u will know not playing consistently makes your firm even go lower.. That's why most of the second gk play terribly when called up.

May be, but then why would VDB, a world class coach would not understand this simple math when he has such other great ranks to choose from...


Its the same reason as he paying xavi,pique,Alonso etc while it was clear to see most of them were past it.. Why? Just like some one mentioned before u can't just bench a team that has won 3 major trophies in a row... they have to truly fail to change the team. There has to be a reason... Who are the gks uR talking about? Reina nd Valdez? Who are both past it.De gea has no history with the NT.. he is just here bcz of injury to 3rd choice keeper.
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