Arsenal face Udinese in CL playoff for Group Stages

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Post by Jay29 Fri Aug 05, 2011 3:09 pm

the_gooner wrote:When's the last time an Italian team beat us in a two legged tie?

Must be at least 10 years?

More than a decade ago. I looked back about twelve years and we hadn't been knocked out by an Italian team. However, we were rather crap in Europe before the year 2000 and rarely qualified from our group. Embarassed

I did, though, find out our record against Italian clubs since the 00/01 iteration of the Champions League:

Played: 14
Won: 7
Drawn: 5
Lost: 2

Most of those are group matches. We've played an Italian team three times in the knockout round - Juventus (2006), AC Milan (2008) and Roma (2009) - and have progressed each time.

The two defeats were group games against Juventus and Inter Milan. Both away from home. Neither recent.

This isn't an attempt to put down Italian teams, by the way. Given our recent form, who knows what may happen this year?

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Post by Amar Fri Aug 05, 2011 3:12 pm

GoonerJay29 wrote:This isn't an attempt to put down Italian teams, by the way. Given our recent form, who knows what may happen this year?

No, I was just curious.

Udinese have a shot, but not a very good one. Their team is a mess atm.
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Post by McLewis Fri Aug 05, 2011 3:17 pm

Well I'm not afraid to face facts.

Arsenal have a fantastic record against Italian sides. That can't be overlooked especially when they're about to face another one and one that is weaker considerably than the other 4 they've beaten in the past.

You might want to look to yourself when you talk about cognitive dissonance there, Wiggles.
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Post by wigglesworth Fri Aug 05, 2011 3:18 pm

McLewis wrote:Well I'm not afraid to face facts.

Arsenal have a fantastic record against Italian sides. That can't be overlooked especially when they're about to face another one and one that is weaker considerably than the other 4 they've beaten in the past.

You might want to look to yourself when you talk about cognitive dissonance there, Wiggles.

When did Arsenal win its last Champions League?
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Post by RED Fri Aug 05, 2011 3:19 pm

wigglesworth wrote:
Iceman wrote:Wiggles overrating Italian teams again? Well, I guess some things never change even if we do change the forum..


Premfaces are always overrating EPL teams. You Premfaces have, what is called, cognitive dissonance. It means that though facts are there staring you in the face, you ignore them and think in a delusional manner. Here are some facts:

CL Winners over the past 30 years: Serie A 8 times, La Liga 7 times, EPL 5 times.

CL winners over the past 20 years: La Liga 6 times, Serie A 5 times, EPL 3 times.

CL winners over the past 10 years: La Liga 4 times, Serie A, 4 times, EPL 3 times.

CL winners over the past 5 years: Serie A 2 times, La Liga 2 times, EPL 1 time.


If Serie A has a competitor, it isn't the EPL, it is La Liga. But you premfaces just ignore the facts.

fail. what has any of that got to do with your statement that "Udinese will thump Arsenal"?

Quit posting irrelevant stuff.
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Post by McLewis Fri Aug 05, 2011 3:20 pm

wigglesworth wrote:
McLewis wrote:Well I'm not afraid to face facts.

Arsenal have a fantastic record against Italian sides. That can't be overlooked especially when they're about to face another one and one that is weaker considerably than the other 4 they've beaten in the past.

You might want to look to yourself when you talk about cognitive dissonance there, Wiggles.

When did Arsenal win its last Champions League?

You know the answer to that.

What is your point?
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Post by Josefaltafino Fri Aug 05, 2011 3:21 pm

GoonerJay29 wrote:
the_gooner wrote:When's the last time an Italian team beat us in a two legged tie?

Must be at least 10 years?

More than a decade ago. I looked back about twelve years and we hadn't been knocked out by an Italian team. However, we were rather crap in Europe before the year 2000 and rarely qualified from our group. Embarassed

I did, though, find out our record against Italian clubs since the 00/01 iteration of the Champions League:

Played: 14
Won: 7
Drawn: 5
Lost: 2

Most of those are group matches. We've played an Italian team three times in the knockout round - Juventus (2006), AC Milan (2008) and Roma (2009) - and have progressed each time.

The two defeats were group games against Juventus and Inter Milan. Both away from home. Neither recent.

This isn't an attempt to put down Italian teams, by the way. Given our recent form, who knows what may happen this year?

Roma was pretty close to knock Arsenal out 2-3 years ago, i wouldn't 100% write off Udinese...if Arsenal understimate them, they are in for a shock, even though i agree that arsenal are astronomicly huge favourites in this tie..

but as i said earlier, if Udinese escapes with 2-1 or even a 1-0 loss, they can knock Arsenal out.

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Post by Jay29 Fri Aug 05, 2011 3:26 pm

Of course Udinese can knock us out. I don't think there's a single Arsenal fan on this forum who said they couldn't. We're confident, but not all of us are totally writing off Udinese.

Here's another fun statsitic: in the three knockout games between Arsenal and an Italian club, one leg has ended in a 0-0 draw. If Udinese get a 0-0 at the Emirates, which is more than possible considering van Persie is suspended - then it is more than plausible that they could beat us in Italy.

In fact, in those 14 games Arsenal only won by more than a 2 goal margain once: the 5-1 win over Inter Milan. So we know these games are going to be tight.

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Post by wigglesworth Fri Aug 05, 2011 3:36 pm

Devil-Is-Red wrote:
wigglesworth wrote:
Iceman wrote:Wiggles overrating Italian teams again? Well, I guess some things never change even if we do change the forum..


Premfaces are always overrating EPL teams. You Premfaces have, what is called, cognitive dissonance. It means that though facts are there staring you in the face, you ignore them and think in a delusional manner. Here are some facts:

CL Winners over the past 30 years: Serie A 8 times, La Liga 7 times, EPL 5 times.

CL winners over the past 20 years: La Liga 6 times, Serie A 5 times, EPL 3 times.

CL winners over the past 10 years: La Liga 4 times, Serie A, 4 times, EPL 3 times.

CL winners over the past 5 years: Serie A 2 times, La Liga 2 times, EPL 1 time.


If Serie A has a competitor, it isn't the EPL, it is La Liga. But you premfaces just ignore the facts.

fail. what has any of that got to do with your statement that "Udinese will thump Arsenal"?

Quit posting irrelevant stuff.

I said that Udinese should concede because they haven't got a chance to win. What the f_ck are you talking about.

My point has to do with premfaces have cognitive dissonce, not realizing that the EPL has not been as successful in the CL as Serie A if you take the past 30, past 20, past 10 or past 5 years. To avoid some premfaces complaining that we are living in the far past.
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Post by wigglesworth Fri Aug 05, 2011 3:38 pm

Josefaltafino wrote:
GoonerJay29 wrote:
the_gooner wrote:When's the last time an Italian team beat us in a two legged tie?

Must be at least 10 years?

More than a decade ago. I looked back about twelve years and we hadn't been knocked out by an Italian team. However, we were rather crap in Europe before the year 2000 and rarely qualified from our group. Embarassed

I did, though, find out our record against Italian clubs since the 00/01 iteration of the Champions League:

Played: 14
Won: 7
Drawn: 5
Lost: 2

Most of those are group matches. We've played an Italian team three times in the knockout round - Juventus (2006), AC Milan (2008) and Roma (2009) - and have progressed each time.

The two defeats were group games against Juventus and Inter Milan. Both away from home. Neither recent.

This isn't an attempt to put down Italian teams, by the way. Given our recent form, who knows what may happen this year?

Roma was pretty close to knock Arsenal out 2-3 years ago, i wouldn't 100% write off Udinese...if Arsenal understimate them, they are in for a shock, even though i agree that arsenal are astronomicly huge favourites in this tie..

but as i said earlier, if Udinese escapes with 2-1 or even a 1-0 loss, they can knock Arsenal out.

Udinese are a Serie B team talent-wise, no comparison to Roma of 2008-2009 that beat Arsenal. 3 Nov. 2009 as I recall.
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Post by mezzogiornese Fri Aug 05, 2011 3:38 pm

wigglesworth wrote:
Devil-Is-Red wrote:
wigglesworth wrote:
Iceman wrote:Wiggles overrating Italian teams again? Well, I guess some things never change even if we do change the forum..


Premfaces are always overrating EPL teams. You Premfaces have, what is called, cognitive dissonance. It means that though facts are there staring you in the face, you ignore them and think in a delusional manner. Here are some facts:

CL Winners over the past 30 years: Serie A 8 times, La Liga 7 times, EPL 5 times.

CL winners over the past 20 years: La Liga 6 times, Serie A 5 times, EPL 3 times.

CL winners over the past 10 years: La Liga 4 times, Serie A, 4 times, EPL 3 times.

CL winners over the past 5 years: Serie A 2 times, La Liga 2 times, EPL 1 time.


If Serie A has a competitor, it isn't the EPL, it is La Liga. But you premfaces just ignore the facts.

fail. what has any of that got to do with your statement that "Udinese will thump Arsenal"?

Quit posting irrelevant stuff.

I said that Udinese should concede because they haven't got a chance to win. What the f_ck are you talking about.

My point has to do with premfaces have cognitive dissonce, not realizing that the EPL has not been as successful in the CL as Serie A if you take the past 30, past 20, past 10 or past 5 years. To avoid some premfaces complaining that we are living in the far past.

You forgot the last 2 years.

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Post by wigglesworth Fri Aug 05, 2011 3:39 pm

mezzogiornese wrote:
wigglesworth wrote:
Devil-Is-Red wrote:
wigglesworth wrote:
Iceman wrote:Wiggles overrating Italian teams again? Well, I guess some things never change even if we do change the forum..


Premfaces are always overrating EPL teams. You Premfaces have, what is called, cognitive dissonance. It means that though facts are there staring you in the face, you ignore them and think in a delusional manner. Here are some facts:

CL Winners over the past 30 years: Serie A 8 times, La Liga 7 times, EPL 5 times.

CL winners over the past 20 years: La Liga 6 times, Serie A 5 times, EPL 3 times.

CL winners over the past 10 years: La Liga 4 times, Serie A, 4 times, EPL 3 times.

CL winners over the past 5 years: Serie A 2 times, La Liga 2 times, EPL 1 time.


If Serie A has a competitor, it isn't the EPL, it is La Liga. But you premfaces just ignore the facts.

fail. what has any of that got to do with your statement that "Udinese will thump Arsenal"?

Quit posting irrelevant stuff.

I said that Udinese should concede because they haven't got a chance to win. What the f_ck are you talking about.

My point has to do with premfaces have cognitive dissonce, not realizing that the EPL has not been as successful in the CL as Serie A if you take the past 30, past 20, past 10 or past 5 years. To avoid some premfaces complaining that we are living in the far past.

You forgot the last 2 years.


Hahahahaha! I didn't want to dig it in too far.
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Post by mezzogiornese Fri Aug 05, 2011 3:41 pm

Or Infact the last year too. They didn't win more CL's than us then either.

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Post by Swanhends Fri Aug 05, 2011 3:41 pm

lol...Udinese are no Sampdoria

Even after selling all their stars, they won't be relegated

Guidolin is a fantastic coach
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Post by McLewis Fri Aug 05, 2011 3:41 pm

wigglesworth wrote:
Devil-Is-Red wrote:
wigglesworth wrote:
Iceman wrote:Wiggles overrating Italian teams again? Well, I guess some things never change even if we do change the forum..


Premfaces are always overrating EPL teams. You Premfaces have, what is called, cognitive dissonance. It means that though facts are there staring you in the face, you ignore them and think in a delusional manner. Here are some facts:

CL Winners over the past 30 years: Serie A 8 times, La Liga 7 times, EPL 5 times.

CL winners over the past 20 years: La Liga 6 times, Serie A 5 times, EPL 3 times.

CL winners over the past 10 years: La Liga 4 times, Serie A, 4 times, EPL 3 times.

CL winners over the past 5 years: Serie A 2 times, La Liga 2 times, EPL 1 time.


If Serie A has a competitor, it isn't the EPL, it is La Liga. But you premfaces just ignore the facts.

fail. what has any of that got to do with your statement that "Udinese will thump Arsenal"?

Quit posting irrelevant stuff.

I said that Udinese should concede because they haven't got a chance to win. What the f_ck are you talking about.

My point has to do with premfaces have cognitive dissonce, not realizing that the EPL has not been as successful in the CL as Serie A if you take the past 30, past 20, past 10 or past 5 years. To avoid some premfaces complaining that we are living in the far past.

The cognitive dissonance also apparently applies to your inability to admit that Arsenal have a near flawless record against Italian sides in CL knockout scenarios. This is not a matter of opinion. Believe me, as a Serie A fan, I wish it was not true, but it is. They are heavily favored against Serie A clubs and until one of those clubs break that trend, this will continue to be the case.

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Post by Wilson37 Fri Aug 05, 2011 3:46 pm

This thread is really encouraging... But stupid goal.com thinks the otherway..
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Post by mezzogiornese Fri Aug 05, 2011 3:46 pm

He's repeatedly said that Arsenal will beat Udinese. And acknowledged the statistic. Hows he got Prem disease?

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Post by Ali Fri Aug 05, 2011 3:51 pm

in the last 34 years , the EPL has 10 CL
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Post by wigglesworth Fri Aug 05, 2011 3:53 pm

Arsenal's last 10 games against Italian teams is:

5 wins
3 draws
2 losses

And the last game was a loss for Arsenal.

Near flawless?
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Post by wigglesworth Fri Aug 05, 2011 3:58 pm

ali8775 wrote:in the last 34 years , the EPL has 10 CL


Milan alone has almost won that many in that time. LOL
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Post by InterMalia Fri Aug 05, 2011 4:00 pm

Their counter attacking ability without Sanchez when injured were the same. They could seriously shock Arsenal. My money is on Arsenal embarrassing them though.
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Post by Iceman Fri Aug 05, 2011 4:01 pm

Wiggles thinks that posting irrelevant information proving Seria A dominance in the past decades would prove him to be right. In his mind, even if Arsenal were to play Catania , we would still face a problem simply because Catania are from Seria A.
Not to mention that the league itself has declined as proven by the Uefa coefficients. I'm sorry, but I don't really think that "Seria A clubs don't care about the EL" is an excuse. Even if its partially true, Italy should not be lower than the Bundesliga IMHO. Their history is great, but recently the league hasn't been performing as well as it should.

I'm not attacking Seria A here, I'm just saying that Wiggles' initial statement, regarding how Udinese of last season would "wipe the floor with Arsenal" is completely unrelated to the arguments that he used. He was basically saying "Seria A > EPL" but I fail to see how such an argument, even if badly "proven", is at all related to Udinese vs Arsenal.
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Post by usman111 Fri Aug 05, 2011 4:01 pm

SwissRamble Swiss Rambler
Serie A does not start until 28 August, so Udinese preparation should be 2 weeks behind Arsenal. Was a factor in Thun overcoming Palermo.
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Post by Jay29 Fri Aug 05, 2011 4:02 pm

Just realised I got something wrong:

Roma beat us in the second leg.

So the record is:

Played: 14
Won: 6
Drawn: 5
Lost: 3

Still a good record. Bit embarrased I forgot we lost, considering it was only a couple of years ago. Embarassed

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Post by Ali Fri Aug 05, 2011 4:04 pm

wigglesworth wrote:
ali8775 wrote:in the last 34 years , the EPL has 10 CL


Milan alone has almost won that many in that time. LOL


England = 11 CL

Italy = 12 CL

7 seasons less, that's funny to me Smile
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Post by InterMalia Fri Aug 05, 2011 4:05 pm

Iceman wrote:Wiggles thinks that posting irrelevant information proving Seria A dominance in the past decades would prove him to be right. In his mind, even if Arsenal were to play Catania , we would still face a problem simply because Catania are from Seria A.
Not to mention that the league itself has declined as proven by the Uefa coefficients. I'm sorry, but I don't really think that "Seria A clubs don't care about the EL" is an excuse. Even if its partially true, Italy should not be lower than the Bundesliga IMHO. Their history is great, but recently the league hasn't been performing as well as it should.

I'm not attacking Seria A here, I'm just saying that Wiggles' initial statement, regarding how Udinese of last season would "wipe the floor with Arsenal" is completely unrelated to the arguments that he used. He was basically saying "Seria A > EPL" but I fail to see how such an argument, even if badly "proven", is at all related to Udinese vs Arsenal.

Wiggles is taking all of you for a ride and your falling for it lol.
Btw the "Seria A clubs don't care about the EL" is not an excuse, it's a sad fact.
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