EURO 2020 - QF : Italy - Belgium

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Post by Robespierre Sat Jul 03, 2021 12:42 am

@Arquitecto wrote:
@Robespierre wrote:
@Arquitecto wrote:Man can someone tell me why in the world Mancini brought deer-in-the headlights Cristante instead of Locatelli for Verratti?

Cristante is skilled but often is bypassed physically and looks caught by a big occassion at times since he is soft like Morata.

How that hell was that even done considering they needed to defend and Locatelli can do that Laughing


Cristante is more defensive and especially he's big as corporature and he can head

yes, what you say it makes sense but all the Mancini substitions on last minutes were excessively negative ,  Toloi for Chiesa in last 5 minutes ...and if they score, match is not finished, it is extra -time

Italian managers sometimes go crazy for negative substitions when they have to defend the advantage and luckily it was not fatal this time



I think we must give Mancini credit as nowhere bar the final minutes did he do the usual "defend the lead" spiel that always ends up absorbing pressure for 30 mins till the inevitable goal.


The substitutions I did not like and Toloi coming in was negative but Spinazolla coming off for Emerson threw a wrench in his works.


Ah yes, it was first time where he looked like " negative" , but  it's understandable for last minutes

if I think to past Italy managers .. he looks like a visionary

When I read Germans poster against Low, I think what I 'd write if GL exsisted 20 years for Italy. I'd have written similar things.

Very talented NTs ruined by negative and bungling managers

for Italy-Austria, I had watched again the match played in France 98

Italy was a firepower for talent, but it was wasted from a negative lineup where you had to play with 5 defenders Laughing

Not a fan also of Italy under Trapattoni.  Trapattoni excellent manager but I think his job under Italy was very bad and you can't reduce it just to bad refs ( Moreno etc )

Two NT without gamestyle

my first Italy NT memories are this. There was  fixation that Italy,  for a sort  of DNA    could win it only in a way. Much much defence, catenaccio, counteattack. ( but DNA in football doesn't exsists . Allegri says it too but I think it's foolish speaking)

But 2006 you had won against Germany also for not having renounced to attack on extra-time

Mancini was the best thing happened to Italy NT  in last 15 years

And he came back to be that manager seen in Lazio 2002-2004 that played football very similar with this.

He made it also in first 2 Inter years.

Then he converted in Capello for the "obligaiton" to  win at all costs.

But the first Mancini was similar with this, but playing 4-4-2 ( Eriksson legacy), while its Italy is developing a very effective 4-3-3

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Post by Arquitecto Sat Jul 03, 2021 12:51 am

Il Trap always seem to succeed under high pressure situations and was a club manager through and through. Internationally he was rather laid back and beyond his Ireland international football did not suit him.

Mancio for me is more surprising here because he never was really an "attacking" manager be it his Inter or Man City.

It still boggles my mind that we see him so attacking and possession based for Italy as that does tell me he has evolved and continues to even with his decisions in games.

For me I only disliked Donadoni despite his positive style and of course Ventura to whom I hate to this day.
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Post by Robespierre Sat Jul 03, 2021 12:57 am

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Post by BarrileteCosmico Sat Jul 03, 2021 12:58 am

City going to love hearing that...
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Post by Arquitecto Sat Jul 03, 2021 12:59 am

And he was arguably their most dangerous player.

For me when I saw him starting I saw the chances for Italy to win drop drastically but increasingly through the game, they nullified him.

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Post by rincon Sat Jul 03, 2021 1:09 am

Fantastic match. Loved the level of play from both teams, for the first 70 minutes or so I can say confidently it was the best match of the euros in terms of level shown.

Barella scored such a beautiful goal and then was outdone by Insigne.

Gutted for Spinazzola though. Such a sad career for such a great player, as Robes said his injury is always about to come. Clearly one of the best players in the tournament and one we don't have a replacement for. Really sad to see him leave like that, he deserved to go all the way.
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Post by Arquitecto Sat Jul 03, 2021 1:16 am

It was the best match in the Euros by far. A technical spectacle along with some interesting tactical play.

Spinazzolla could make his case for the best in the tourney so far and it is not hyperbole to say this will cost Mancini big given Emerson is just barely match fit.
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Post by Warrior Sat Jul 03, 2021 1:21 am

Spinazzola is one of those unlucky players who cannot catch a break

His injury record is not pretty

EURO 2020 - QF : Italy - Belgium - Page 7 Spinaz10
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Post by Arquitecto Sat Jul 03, 2021 1:33 am

Speaking of defenders this had to be a perfect performance from Bonucci tonight.

Yes even better than Cheillini as his passing from the back was sublime and he was absolutely everywhere to defend and made some brilliant oncoming saves in the midfield to nullify Belgian counter-attacks.

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Post by Warrior Sat Jul 03, 2021 2:09 am

Yes

I appreciate this pair while it's still here

Even Leo is 34 now ffs Sad
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Post by Arquitecto Sat Jul 03, 2021 2:19 am

EURO 2020 - QF : Italy - Belgium - Page 7 E5UlQekWQAELLhZ?format=jpg&name=large

Allianz Stadium at it again :bow:
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Post by silver Sat Jul 03, 2021 9:44 am

I felt Belgium playing 3 at the back was a mistake. None of the 3 were great at bringing the ball out and none of them were comfortable being dragged wide. Therefore Munier and Hazard always dropped back creating a back 5, which meant less numbers in mid / attack and less control. They should have dropped a CB and put in a forward to help the front line.
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Post by Hapless_Hans Sat Jul 03, 2021 11:44 am

Qualitywise, this will have been the final.

And Italy are now surely the main favourites.
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Post by Robespierre Sat Jul 03, 2021 12:25 pm

Gazzetta dello Sport 's votes

EURO 2020 - QF : Italy - Belgium - Page 7 IMG-20210703-122230-131
EURO 2020 - QF : Italy - Belgium - Page 7 IMG-20210703-122235-878
EURO 2020 - QF : Italy - Belgium - Page 7 IMG-20210703-122242-048
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Post by Blue Sat Jul 03, 2021 2:55 pm

@Robes

Btw have you changed your opinion on Jorginho? I recall you didn’t rate him.
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Post by Arquitecto Sat Jul 03, 2021 3:23 pm

Jorginho was the best midfielder on the pitch by a good distance even above Barella, Verratti and de Bruyne.

His work is discreet so its hard to notice but he has been spectacular so far in this tournament.
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Post by Robespierre Sat Jul 03, 2021 4:04 pm

@Blue wrote:@Robes

Btw have you changed your opinion on Jorginho? I recall you didn’t rate him.
 

Definitely changed

He's a campione

He 's improved in these 2 years at Chelsea , I'd say he has made that path that you expect from an intelligent player (as him), refined some gaps , improved constantly.

If he was a player that performs thanks to the system, now he is the system .

Him and Barella are very improved in last 2 years. While I 'd not want to be hard towards Verratti but I feel he 's a bit regressed . Very good even him yesterday though , Mancini was right to insist with " his " midfielder... Despite Pessina and Locatelli were going good
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Post by The Franchise Mon Jul 05, 2021 11:03 am

Italia Heart

Amazing team. So many performers, nearly everyone is pulling their weight.

Need Immobile to wake the hell up, he is asleep out there and looks lost at times. Unfortunately, Belotti is no better.

Chiellini is just another level of defender. He is from the last generation of defenders, guys who actually want to defend, not ball players who just happen to play back there. This lunatic is flying head first into driven shots from outside the box and of course Lukaku was getting almost nothing against him and switched to the center. No striker will get anything from him, despite him being 35 or 36, he will surely continue for the next World cup at least. He could do a Maldini I believe and continue until 40 while still being pretty much elite.

So many other great performances I could go on forever. Rooting hard for this team.
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Post by Arquitecto Mon Jul 05, 2021 12:15 pm

Immobile scores on most levels alike big or small but if he has a bad start this is how he becomes. Ive always said his confidence is based on a frail sphere of momentum and once broken half the match he will be hard on himself as if remembering the missed shot some minutes ago or what not.

He looked good in the groups stages and has 2 goals so far (with one nearly top corner shot v Austria) but alas his confidence when low means he will do close to nothing.

Plus his success was made more in counterattacking forms of play as in this system I dont see a nine being needed but more a Luis Suarez type.

Chiellini is 37 and barely fit, and just came on from injury v Belgium and bar one moment he never looked in trouble.

Bonucci was the best defending part in the game though.
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Post by The Franchise Mon Jul 05, 2021 12:22 pm

It may in the end come down to the fact the 3 strikers of the big teams left, all have question marks surrounding them but Kane is now finding a way to get goals while Morata/Immobile are not.

If Immobile continues like this, the rest of the guys who are seemingly taking turns on being effective inside the box have to keep finding a way.

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