The Racism Thread

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Post by Myesyats Fri May 21, 2021 9:51 am

Unban @Young Kaz please. The number of Americans on this board is already thin as it is, we need his copypasta.

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Post by El Gunner Fri May 21, 2021 10:32 am

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Post by McLewis Tue Jun 01, 2021 12:10 am

“Nixon’s successful presidential election campaign could point the way toward long-term political realignment and the building of a new Republican majority, if Republicans continued to campaign primarily on the basis of racial issues, using coded antiblack rhetoric,” Republican Strategist Kevin Phillips wrote in “The New Republican Majority” in 1969.

Two years later, in 1971, President Nixon declared a “War on Drugs” in a special message to Congress, launching a mass federal law enforcement operation that, in the decades since, has wreaked havoc nationwide and resulted in skyrocketing incarceration—especially among poor and Black communities.

In 1994, one of Nixon’s domestic policy advisers and Watergate co-conspirators, John Ehrlichman, told Dan Baum that race was part of the motivation behind Nixon’s anti-drug campaign.

“The Nixon campaign in 1968, and the Nixon White House after that, had two enemies: the antiwar left and black people. You understand what I’m saying?,” Baum reported Ehrlichman saying in Harper’s Magazine. “We knew we couldn’t make it illegal to be either against the war or black, but by getting the public to associate the hippies with marijuana and blacks with heroin, and then criminalizing both heavily, we could disrupt those communities. We could arrest their leaders, raid their homes, break up their meetings, and vilify them night after night on the evening news. Did we know we were lying about the drugs? Of course we did.”

The anti-crime fervor continued throughout the ’70s, ’80s and ’90s, with the federal government and states, including Mississippi, passing “tough-on-crime” laws that increased incarceration rates dramatically. Mississippi’s prison population was 8,158 in 1990."

Remember this the next time you see or hear someone say systemic racism doesn't exist in the US. I know I will.
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Post by Arquitecto Tue Jun 01, 2021 12:57 am

Systematic racism in US has officially existed since July 4th, 1776 in fact.
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Post by El Gunner Tue Jun 01, 2021 10:55 am

the "war on drugs" robbed us of an alternative timeline where we could have been well further progressed on certain social aspects, such as proper studies around drugs and psychedelics and development of black communities, especially in the States

#FreeMyNiggaBetty
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Post by Myesyats Wed Jun 02, 2021 7:22 am

Politics has very often been about heroically solving problems that do not exist or otherwise would be unknown to man under different rule, mainly to fuel agendas. Communism is a perfect example. Create a problem that would normally never occur, "heroically" resolve it and then paint yourself as the hero *even though you created the problem in the first place*

You see this process over and over again also through scapegoating specific groups of people/races/tribes/nationalities.
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Post by El Gunner Wed Jun 02, 2021 1:00 pm

Thumbs up yup, good old "divide and conquer"
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Post by McLewis Thu Jun 03, 2021 5:08 pm



Just more evidence of an extremely white-washed history that we were fed in school. I literally hadn't heard of this until I came across a reddit thread about it.
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Post by BarrileteCosmico Sat Jun 05, 2021 5:44 pm

McLewis wrote:
“Nixon’s successful presidential election campaign could point the way toward long-term political realignment and the building of a new Republican majority, if Republicans continued to campaign primarily on the basis of racial issues, using coded antiblack rhetoric,” Republican Strategist Kevin Phillips wrote in “The New Republican Majority” in 1969.

Two years later, in 1971, President Nixon declared a “War on Drugs” in a special message to Congress, launching a mass federal law enforcement operation that, in the decades since, has wreaked havoc nationwide and resulted in skyrocketing incarceration—especially among poor and Black communities.

In 1994, one of Nixon’s domestic policy advisers and Watergate co-conspirators, John Ehrlichman, told Dan Baum that race was part of the motivation behind Nixon’s anti-drug campaign.

“The Nixon campaign in 1968, and the Nixon White House after that, had two enemies: the antiwar left and black people. You understand what I’m saying?,” Baum reported Ehrlichman saying in Harper’s Magazine. “We knew we couldn’t make it illegal to be either against the war or black, but by getting the public to associate the hippies with marijuana and blacks with heroin, and then criminalizing both heavily, we could disrupt those communities. We could arrest their leaders, raid their homes, break up their meetings, and vilify them night after night on the evening news. Did we know we were lying about the drugs? Of course we did.”

The anti-crime fervor continued throughout the ’70s, ’80s and ’90s, with the federal government and states, including Mississippi, passing “tough-on-crime” laws that increased incarceration rates dramatically. Mississippi’s prison population was 8,158 in 1990."

Remember this the next time you see or hear someone say systemic racism doesn't exist in the US. I know I will.

When I first read this a few days ago my first take was "doesn't everyone know this? does anyone really deny the existence of systematic racism in good faith?"

Then I just stumbled upon this, where the vast majority of comments deny the existence of systematic racism: https://bariweiss.substack.com/p/you-have-to-read-this-letter/comments#

Yikes

Also had no idea Thomas Sowell had such a following in this crowd.
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Post by McLewis Sat Jun 05, 2021 9:52 pm

Yeah Sowell is their economic god when it comes to trying to shut someone up about systemic racism. He's the flag bearer for the "they just don't work hard enough" crowd.

I've actually started sharing that Baum/Ehrlichman quote as a result. Watching them squirm to refute it is enjoyable.
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Post by Lord Awesome Sat Jun 05, 2021 11:24 pm

The Republican Party here has become the ultimate populist propaganda machine at this point. They literally own their ability to waken the fears of people and reliance on ignorance is what's made who they are now. At the very least their loudspeaker is out now
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Post by Myesyats Sun Jun 06, 2021 12:19 am

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Post by The Franchise Mon Jun 07, 2021 11:54 am

Myesyats wrote:


Certainly an increasing trend.

For me, the knee is a token gesture with little meaning at this point.

But those who take the time to boo it, I find extremely strange. What message are you trying to send? What exactly are you displeased about?
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Post by McLewis Mon Jun 07, 2021 3:50 pm

The leading reason for opposing the kneeling....at least from what I read from the bots on Twitter is that they are seizing on the fact that one of the original founders of the movement, Patrisse Khan-Cullors, self-describes herself as a Marxist. Frankly, what she believes isn't even real Marxism. It's very watered down.

So because of that, the whole movement is being labelled as Marxist, even though it is heavily decentralized. There is no BLM HQ.  There is no BLM spokesperson. There aren't even recognized central leaders. It's entirely regional and not all of them believe in the same things Cullors believes in. There is no requirement to.
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Post by Myesyats Mon Jun 07, 2021 4:19 pm

IDK I dont mind it really but imo it's an American trend that I'm not sure why random european people decided to follow.

Czech/Polish players point to the "Respect" badge on their shirt instead.

Just blindly following trends is also stupid imo. Makes it meaningless. Like corporations suddenly turning gay in June. We all know they dont give a shit about LGBT people but instead they're looking for a profit

Not sure what Austria has to do with it and why are they kneeling? They didnt even have a colony
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Post by McLewis Mon Jun 07, 2021 4:35 pm

I think a lot of what is happening in Europe is more out of solidarity than anything.

Frankly, I'm more into substance. The kneeling is fine, but without meaningful systemic changes, it remains merely a token gesture. A gesture of support and solidarity, of course, but just a gesture and nothing more.
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Post by Myesyats Mon Jun 07, 2021 5:17 pm

Yes a nice gesture indeed but I don't see how Austrian players kneeling would ever influence change in America hmm they have nothing in common

And another issue here is that there is really no clear definition behind what this gesture means. Ive seen people say its about G.Floyd even though it dates back to 2016. So people seem confused whether its about the far-left, G.Floyd, "defunding the police" or what ever.

Another thing I can think of is people are often averse to bringing political issues to sport because these things are separate. Its like those NFL commercials about domestic abuse or people being drowned in a mud slide while youre just trying to enjoy the game.
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Post by McLewis Mon Jun 07, 2021 6:53 pm

Myesyats wrote:Yes a nice gesture indeed but I don't see how Austrian players kneeling would ever influence change in America hmm they have nothing in common.

As I said, it's more a show of solidarity. Europe has it's own issues with racism. The way I think about it, is America's race issues were born out of Europe's given they are the ancestral motherland of White Americans. In that way, there is a link. Substantially-speaking, I was speaking more to systemic change here in America. While I know Europe has issues of race, I am not as well versed in the intricacies of those issues. What I do know is that racial issues are not well publicized so just because we've never heard of a country having racial issues, doesn't mean they don't exist.

And another issue here is that there is really no clear definition behind what this gesture means. Ive seen people say its about G.Floyd even though it dates back to 2016. So people seem confused whether its about the far-left, G.Floyd, "defunding the police" or what ever.

The kneeling predated George Floyd's murder. Colin Kaepernick is credited as starting this trend. He sought and received approval from US military veterans on the best way to protest racial injustice in a way that did not denigrate the military. He wanted to sit. They suggested he kneel.

As for defunding the police, that was born out of confusion from the right on what exactly the expectation was once the kneeling was done. The kneeling is done to bring attention and awareness. The kneeling alone will change nothing. The next step is systemic change. We can debate the effectiveness of the Defund the Police slogan, but frankly I don't care about that. The 2nd portion of it always seems to get left out, which is to refund communities with the funds taken from police departments. It's to return police to their original role, which is law enforcement. They are overbloated, overworked, and stretched too thin. Return them to their original purpose, bring in and fund civilian agencies that specialize in mental health situations and there's every chance we'll see no only a drop in crime, but the beginnings of trust being built between police and the communities they are responsible for patrolling. Frankly, this is a bit pie-in-the-sky, but that is the logical path that defunding police departments is meant to take us down. Will it happen? Doubtful. Far too many other entities would stand to suffer from such systemic efficiency. It's far more lucrative to keep everyone at each other's throats.

Another thing I can think of is people are often averse to bringing political issues to sport because these things are separate. Its like those NFL commercials about domestic abuse or people being drowned in a mud slide while youre just trying to enjoy the game.

I do not understand this line of thought. Sport and politics have ALWAYS been intertwined. It really makes me wonder what is being taught in history classes that so many people have been convinced the opposite is true. Look at the Rome derby or the Old Firm for confirmation of this. Each side lines up along lines of political ideology among other elements. NASCAR in the US was born in the rural South, which is heavily conservative and Republican. It caters specifically to fans of that particular political ideology. So every time I see this "leave politics out of sports" nonsense, it does my head in.
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Post by El Gunner Mon Jun 07, 2021 7:17 pm

McLewis wrote:The leading reason for opposing the kneeling....at least from what I read from the bots on Twitter is that they are seizing on the fact that one of the original founders of the movement, Patrisse Khan-Cullors, self-describes herself as a Marxist. Frankly, what she believes isn't even real Marxism. It's very watered down.

So because of that, the whole movement is being labelled as Marxist, even though it is heavily decentralized. There is no BLM HQ.  There is no BLM spokesperson. There aren't even recognized central leaders. It's entirely regional and not all of them believe in the same things Cullors believes in. There is no requirement to.

these new brand of people that label everything that opposes basic human rights as "Marxist" really is another level of stupid. It's become the new "it"-thing for the anti-woke woke clan
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Post by Myesyats Tue Jun 08, 2021 8:03 am

I dont disagree Mclewis, just trying to play devils advocate here using the popular talking points. But then again one thing is a gesture and another is action.

This is a good example:


Putting up rainbow flags everywhere while y'all know these corporations dont care or are even vehemently anti gay. At some point it becomes social populism and is no better than right wing populism.
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Post by The Franchise Tue Jun 08, 2021 10:49 am

Good points, I think Lewis explains it well.

In the UK, I think we are up to at least 7 or 8 games now where fans have booed players taking the knee and we have different political commentators who have accused Southgate of being "tone death" to the nation for "allowing" the players to continue with the knee.

Unfortunately what I see, is extreme denial from this part of society. I think perhaps its partly nationalism, in that they hold the UK up as some sort of great nation and whenever there is a criticism for it, there is alot of defensiveness leading to push back.

I do think though, many/some "regular" (code for white, English) brits dont want to see the knee and will continue to boo it. We all know the type when we see them and at this point it is what it is.
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Post by McLewis Tue Jun 08, 2021 3:01 pm

Myesyats wrote:I dont disagree Mclewis, just trying to play devils advocate here using the popular talking points. But then again one thing is a gesture and another is action.

This is a good example:


Putting up rainbow flags everywhere while y'all know these corporations dont care or are even vehemently anti gay. At some point it becomes social populism and is no better than right wing populism.

I agree completely. Corporate performative efforts of this nature are very transparent to me. Profit drives these decisions, not any meaningful will to encourage systemic change.

The Franchise wrote:Good points, I think Lewis explains it well.

In the UK, I think we are up to at least 7 or 8 games now where fans have booed players taking the knee and we have different political commentators who have accused Southgate of being "tone death" to the nation for "allowing" the players to continue with the knee.

Unfortunately what I see, is extreme denial from this part of society. I think perhaps its partly nationalism, in that they hold the UK up as some sort of great nation and whenever there is a criticism for it, there is alot of defensiveness leading to push back.

I do think though, many/some "regular" (code for white, English) brits dont want to see the knee and will continue to boo it. We all know the type when we see them and at this point it is what it is.

Yeah that's a good point on nationalism. It is often indistinguishable from xenophobia to me. Like America, a good amount of white English folks seem to be really bothered by black celebrities taking political stances. I often see the same stupid "you get paid millions, be grateful and shut up" aesthetic around the criticism. You rarely to never see it with white celebs.

As for the knee. They seem to support more passive methods like the "No to racism" campaign, which is the bare minimum. My ignorance comes in that I don't know the metrics around systemic racism in the UK though. One thing I do notice is that Parliament is very white, given how diverse the UK actually is. That's something I need to research more though. In the US, it's readily available and very apparent given how deep slavery and the residual effects of Jim Crow run throughout basically every system within society. Not so much in the UK, I imagine.
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Post by The Franchise Tue Jun 08, 2021 4:49 pm

Perhaps xenophobia is more accurate, as you said, its hard to tell the difference. You see this reflected in many areas, especially in certain sections of the media. The pro-Brexit crowd never fail to mention anything at all the UK does superior to the EU, be it the vaccination rate or what have you. You could argue this is simply those people trying to justify Brexit as the right decision. On the other, feels quite like big hints of nationalism.

The strange thing about the UK is how much undercover despise for immigrants there is, and yet everyone wants to go holiday or live abroad.

I dont know what to call it, but there is most certainly some sentiment that the UK is a great nation (regardless of all the evidence to the contrary at times) and any criticism of it is met with alot of resistance.

On one side it seems there is alot of "woke" political and social stances being made and to counter it there is alot of denial of real issues (Disproportion around police stop and search is a recent one).

So you have things such as players taking the knee and it gets called "woke" and put in that box. The recent uproar around Palestine, again has been called "woke". Almost like a call to action for those people who rally against this "woke-ism". It's a bit of a mess in my opinion because views are getting purposefully misaligned.

In terms of black celebs, but certainly black athletes, I think there is clear double standards. Phil Foden buys his family a mansion, he is a great kid looking after his family. Sterling does it and he is another overpaid footballer splashing money around.

With parliament, there are a few names to be fair. You have David Lammey who is Shadow Secretary of State for Justice and Shadow Lord Chancellor, Kwasi Kwarteng who is Secretary of State for business, energy and Industrial strategy.

Couple others who I cant recall and there are quite a few high ranking people from the Asian community holding positions as the Home sec, Chancellor of the Exchequer and Mayor of London.  I have huge criticisms for each and everyone of them but none the less there seems to a fair amount of representation, even if they dont actually represent their communities from my point of view.
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Post by Warrior Tue Jun 08, 2021 6:46 pm

You guys blame marxism and nationalism, i think those booing the knee down only have a vague idea of these concepts

I'll start by saying the insistance of SJW to question/redefine every aspect of life is naive, annoying, agressive and it's easy to be cynical towards its incoherences and bias. And cringy corps now abide by it for twitter rep. Their lack of credibilty is a crucial aspect. It triggers more than it helps.

The social justice movements most tangible effect is to expose the evil things done by white men. The way social justice is covered by the medias, you would think it's white men vs the world. And while this conclusion is over-simplistic, i assure you for some of us the reflexion does not go further. Another thing: it is uncomfortable to acknowledge your life is the result to oppression of others

This last sentence is very important that's why i write in bold. Either you accept the facts or go in denial and then every action taken in favor of minorities becomes an ideological battlefield

That's why i don't associate the booers to anything intellectual, it's a reaction straight from the heart. A self-centered reaction. A self-defense reaction. Trying to understand resistance to anti-racism i realize the answers lie in mediocrity of the mind, more than good vs evil.

Another obstacle to unity is the fear of the future. I am guilty of it myself sometimes through my thoughts. I can give examples to illustrate my point. Is equality not an utopia for pot smokers ? To which extent immigrants and refugees will dilute our culture ? Look at demographics: will my grandchildren be the exploited, the mocked, the left aside ? I choose to discard those fears because those are hypothetical problems. Also my reflexions on these questions give me somewhat reassuring answers, my city is like top 10 multicultural in the world, i already live in this world 2.0 and it's going well so far. Apparently some cannot sleep over it, they lack lucidity and empathy, sucks to be them, their conclusion is they have only disadvantage to participate: those are the conspiracists, the apologists, the guys who boo Colin Kaepernick taking his knee down during national anthem as if he took a shit on the flag.

Complex post to summarize Laughing i hope it's clear what i mean
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Post by McLewis Tue Jun 08, 2021 9:39 pm

Yeah I think I remember Lammey from an interview he gave on Pod Save America a year or so ago. Sharp guy, I thought. Good to see there's more representation there than I thought. Like our national politicians of color, it rarely trickles down to the communities though, which is unfortunate.

I think you're referring to "exceptionalism" when you mention UK not taking criticism well. It's this feeling that they are such a net force for good they are above and beyond reproach internally and externally. America has this same delusion. The reality is that both are deeply flawed and still deeply influenced by their imperialist roots.
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Post by Lord Awesome Wed Jun 09, 2021 12:16 am

I think Imperialism is the correct word here. The vestiges of it certainly ring loud and clear as to whom is having this attitude. I imagine Brexiters have more or less the same mindset towards Bipoc as conservatives here. And that's all it really is tbf. Fear or suspicion of Brown or Black people who immigrate mainly to looking for better economic opportunities or escape to a more secure location their homeland cannot offer. Worst is how it has been these very Imperialists are in support of the atrocities done in a lot, if not all, of the homeland their immigrants originate from.

Then comes the argument of white guilt.

Merely by mentioning these truths causes the need to deny, out of blind nationalistic, or even worse religious, pride that they are somehow the good guys of the world and those coming in are somehow bad or criminals (or "ghetto" as one I had met used). All this highlighting the past is not done to shame, or at least it shouldn't be done with the intention to shame, but it should with the intention to acknowledge what has been done and what is being done still now. Finally, we get lumped into the "Woke" category with the intent to minimize the strength of reason.

As much as Conservatives would like to, it'll never change the past. They have now lost the ability to warp history in their favor in this age of information. So if they want to remain ignorant they can do so but eventually I predict they will erode
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