Azerbaijan, the liberation of Karabakh

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Post by Adit Mon Oct 19, 2020 10:13 pm

Religions will always have extremists. Remember it is every time a normal distribution. Even the non violence preaching Buddhists have extremists in them. It is inevitable in a normally distributed population.

Issue with Islam in current age is two things.

The rigorous religious education during the childhood means that Muslims will generally be very serious about their religion compared to other religious group.

Add in the structural violence present in all abrahamic religions to justify their 'rightful' claim on resources and women we get a very seriously religious population who justify violence in religious conflicts. The one tail of the curve is extremists who believe seriously in violence present in the religious books ,out of context or not.

Even though education could be a factor I think it is not as big factor as the person who went and killed Sikhs in Afghanistan in suicide bombing was from near my place . He was a Doctor. Many people who joined ISIS from my state were people who were working in Dubai as engineers and professionals.


It is not the violence in the book that is the problem. Many books, religious ones justify violence for politics. Bible itself is violent, Geetha is literally Krishna asking Arjuna to go do war .
The difference is that these religions have not created a eco system which impart serious religious education as much as Islam has done. The community should stop giving too much religious education in an early age. The kids when they learn to read can read and learn themselves. At the moment I wouldn't trust the religious educational given to Muslims in Madrassas. Even if few in numbers there seems to be a bit too much hard line education centers compared to other organised religions like Christianity. When was the last time we had a extremist church caught red handed radicalising christian youth ? Compare that to Islamic education centers.

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Post by Young Kaz Mon Oct 19, 2020 10:51 pm

@Myesyats wrote:https://www.pewresearch.org/global/2014/07/01/concerns-about-islamic-extremism-on-the-rise-in-middle-east/?fbclid=IwAR13LF0IdSJYQj-FrZHJLwemIgVW4SbFYVHlw9Bll7AZ1tQtHG_JW7tZNGc

Azerbaijan, the liberation of Karabakh - Page 5 PG-2014-07-01-islamic-extremism-10

hmm

so basically half of Egypt has a somewhat favorable view of suicide bombing against infidels? wow, not going on vacation there anymore innit


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Egyptian_inventions_and_discoveries

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Polish_inventions

hmm hmm hmm

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Post by Art Morte Mon Oct 19, 2020 11:54 pm

lmao this guy and his obsession with inventions xD

If Egyptians are so much smarter, why is their GDP per capita just 16% of Poland's GDP per capita?

This is such a stupid game btw.
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Post by Young Kaz Tue Oct 20, 2020 12:25 am

@Art Morte wrote:lmao this guy and his obsession with inventions xD

If Egyptians are so much smarter, why is their GDP per capita just 16% of Poland's GDP per capita?

This is such a stupid game btw.


Invention shows you the population you are dealing with. GDP takes into account other factors...such as proximity to power and general neighbor ability overall. Poland's GDP, in large part, is what it is because of her proximity(physically and politically) to Nations such as Germany,France, and The United Kingdom. Same for Finland.

Egypt does not have the same benefit. Being next to war-torn nations(Mostly due to European influence).


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Post by Adit Tue Oct 20, 2020 5:20 am

That is such an excuse. You don't need proximity to become a economically wealthy nation. You just need right economics at place. Egyptian inventions shows that their civilization at that time was superior , so was China and India at one point but the civilizational momentum means they couldn't change as fast as other countries into modern era and got left behind in technology.
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Post by Zagadka Tue Oct 20, 2020 7:48 am

Imagine saying Poland is in advantage because they aren't next to war-torn nations...

like man, no country in the world has been invaded as many times as Poland...these guys even took it up the arse from bloody SWEDEN !!! imagine being invaded by SWEDEN !!

that's not to mention the gangrape by Nazi-Communists for 50 years.

but we know Kaz' issue isn't invention or such. Poland is white = BAD ...much simpler logic to follow.

Anyways, I wrote an article about Japan on my blog...do you agree with my assessments bro? I tried to be objective and talk about the good and the bad.

rip ynwa @Mystyas
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Post by Babun Tue Oct 20, 2020 8:45 am

@Art Morte wrote:lmao this guy and his obsession with inventions xD

If Egyptians are so much smarter, why is their GDP per capita just 16% of Poland's GDP per capita?

This is such a stupid game btw.

May sound funny but inventions are usually a successful mix of genetics and the right environment/culture. Ancient Egypt clearly shows they always had that potential on genetical level but after the islamic conquest (Kaz'source shows it best) the number of inventions declined rapidly. Then you have Mohammed Attala from the recent time in that wikipedia link who is single handedly responsible for most of the Egyptian inventions in the modern times. Common link? Right genetics in the right environment (open culture in the US). It has to be said most progress/inventions in that region were made by Jews (yes, they're semits), Egyptians, Persians and Iraqis from the mainland. The Arabs from the penninsula contributed next to nothing. Countries affected the most by the islamic conquest were Egypt and Iraq. In case of Iraq, it wasn't that bad because there were people speaking Arabic in significant numbers beforehand but still most of the libraries and locations of culture were destroyed, in case of Egypt, all of their libraries and infrastructures were literally burnt down by the invaders. Their culture was destroyed more or less. Persians were affected the least and even managed to retain their language. They weren't known to be extremist believers throughout the history, the Islamic Republic of Iran is a paradoxal joke in itself Laughing
So yes, those three countries are held back by political islam and the constant wars around them. They've got the potential to be a very dominating force if united.
@Zagadka wrote:Imagine saying Poland is in advantage because they aren't next to war-torn nations...

like man, no country in the world has been invaded as many times as Poland...these guys even took it up the arse from bloody SWEDEN !!! imagine being invaded by SWEDEN !!

that's not to mention the gangrape by Nazi-Communists for 50 years.

but we know Kaz' issue isn't invention or such. Poland is white = BAD ...much simpler logic to follow.

Anyways, I wrote an article about Japan on my blog...do you agree with my assessments bro? I tried to be objective and talk about the good and the bad.

rip ynwa @Mystyas

I hear the same from every Polak here and there. The most war torn country in the middle ages has been Germany.
Read here for further reference:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thirty_Years%27_War
Up to 60% of the population erased by invaders from the every parts.The next populations suffering the most were France then Italy. Spain and Portugal suffered the least. Poland's population is somwhere in the middle of the path. The English complain about everyone but they were spared serious wipeouts by their island status. The glorified viking raids which are popular as of now and you refer to them as Sweden (Vikings were predominantly from the current day Denmark and Norway) are nothing compared to the Napoleonic wars or the Mongol conquests.
Mongol invasions:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mongol_invasions_and_conquests
Napoloenic wars:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Napoleonic_Wars_casualties


Last edited by Babun on Tue Oct 20, 2020 9:15 am; edited 2 times in total
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Post by Zagadka Tue Oct 20, 2020 8:54 am

^ I agree actually. I have massive respect for Egypt.

Babun, have you ever been to the Hermitage museum in St. Petersburg?

There is a whole floor dedicated to ancient Egypt...It's absolutely mind-boggling some of the things they managed to build and assemble 5000 years ago.
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Post by Babun Tue Oct 20, 2020 9:01 am

@Zagadka wrote:^ I agree actually. I have massive respect for Egypt.

Babun, have you ever been to the Hermitage museum in St. Petersburg?

There is a whole floor dedicated to ancient Egypt...It's absolutely mind-boggling some of the things they managed to build and assemble 5000 years ago.

I've been to hermitage, the winter palast/gardens and saw tutankhamun's mummy there. I've also been caught drunk on the wrong side of the river after the bridges were opened Laughing
@futbol wrote:
@Babun wrote:@The Demon of Carthage
You got the first but not the second part of my post. I expect educated muslims in the west to go onto the streets, protest with the slogan "not in my name" and to clearly distance themselves from those atrocities. I also expect those communities to work with the police and the gouvernment as much as possible to prevent radicalization of the youth.
Not saying or doing anythng has always been a sign of ignorance. If you look at it from the above perspective muslims in the west have got the most to lose because of that stigma image, yet they don't do anything to distance themselves. You can't tell me they've got no education or die of hunger..
Trainwreck of a thought process. Assuming that you are white, do you take to the streets and justify yourself everytime someone commits a racist, white supremacist felony?
Actually, in Germany, there is always a counterdemo to a racist demo to show them they're in a minority and have got nothing to say. Also, there're demonstrations vs. racism after racially motivated crimes. Yeah, I'd like leaders or representants of the islamic communities in the west to distance themselves from such crimes as "not in my name". I'd expect the same from the pope if someone went into a killing streak for the sake of christianity. It's nothing much but very important for the community and its people.
@futbol wrote:Dafuq should my Turkish Muslim neighbor in Germany go and justify himself because some Chechen committed a crime in France? Laughing
Well, if you've read anything about the case there was a complot of about 11+ people. 11 of them were arrested. I'd agree with you if someone commited the crime in affect as a sole perpetrator but that's not the case. In case you don't know the extremist movements are called salafists and wahabbits, they're located in every majour European city. I'm not blind or naive enough to assume all that applies to France only. Charlie hebdo massacre wasn't orchestered by Chechens either.


Last edited by Babun on Tue Oct 20, 2020 9:34 am; edited 2 times in total
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Post by Myesyats Tue Oct 20, 2020 9:21 am

@Young Kaz wrote:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Egyptian_inventions_and_discoveries

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Polish_inventions

hmm hmm hmm

First of all this has nothing to do with the conversation at hand


second of all, if you count egyptian inventions since islam was sadly born in the 7th century, you get this petty dwarf list

Azerbaijan, the liberation of Karabakh - Page 5 2424242424

why would you count Ancient egypt if it has nothing to do with islam?

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Post by Myesyats Tue Oct 20, 2020 9:27 am

@Art Morte wrote:lmao this guy and his obsession with inventions xD

If Egyptians are so much smarter, why is their GDP per capita just 16% of Poland's GDP per capita?

This is such a stupid game btw.

twice the population too

and poland was also busy with 2 world wars and communism for the past 100 years, only started really building up in 2004 after the dust settled and we joined the eu, also before the world wars we wasn't even recognized as country for another 100 years due to occupation, where all our riches were stolen and taken away anyway.

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Post by Babun Tue Oct 20, 2020 9:37 am

@Myesyats wrote:
@Art Morte wrote:lmao this guy and his obsession with inventions xD

If Egyptians are so much smarter, why is their GDP per capita just 16% of Poland's GDP per capita?

This is such a stupid game btw.

twice the population too

and poland was also busy with 2 world wars and communism for the past 100 years, only started really building up in 2004 after the dust settled and we joined the eu, also before the world wars we wasn't even recognized as country for another 100 years due to occupation, where all our riches were stolen and taken away anyway.

Unpopular opinion: if your country is constantly invaded and destroyed by invaders throughout a prolonged amount of time (900+ years) then maybe just maybe, that country isn't smart and successfull enough to unite and ally themselves with their neighbours to successfuly develop countermeasures so such things never happen again? There is Swiss..
Victim mentality prevents progress to say the least.
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Post by Pedram Tue Oct 20, 2020 10:00 am

@Babun wrote:
@Myesyats wrote:
@Art Morte wrote:lmao this guy and his obsession with inventions xD

If Egyptians are so much smarter, why is their GDP per capita just 16% of Poland's GDP per capita?

This is such a stupid game btw.

twice the population too

and poland was also busy with 2 world wars and communism for the past 100 years, only started really building up in 2004 after the dust settled and we joined the eu, also before the world wars we wasn't even recognized as country for another 100 years due to occupation, where all our riches were stolen and taken away anyway.

Unpopular opinion: if your country is constantly invaded and destroyed by invaders throughout a prolonged amount of time (900+ years) then maybe just maybe, that country isn't smart and successfull enough to unite and ally themselves with their neighbours to successfuly develop countermeasures so such things never happen again? There is Swiss..
Victim mentality prevents progress to say the least.


Who they were supposed to ally with? Poland just had the misfortune of being sandwiched between two blood thirsty empires.
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Post by Babun Tue Oct 20, 2020 12:53 pm

@Pedram wrote:
@Babun wrote:
@Myesyats wrote:

twice the population too

and poland was also busy with 2 world wars and communism for the past 100 years, only started really building up in 2004 after the dust settled and we joined the eu, also before the world wars we wasn't even recognized as country for another 100 years due to occupation, where all our riches were stolen and taken away anyway.

Unpopular opinion: if your country is constantly invaded and destroyed by invaders throughout a prolonged amount of time (900+ years) then maybe just maybe, that country isn't smart and successfull enough to unite and ally themselves with their neighbours to successfuly develop countermeasures so such things never happen again? There is Swiss..
Victim mentality prevents progress to say the least.


Who they were supposed to ally with? Poland just had the misfortune of being sandwiched between two blood thirsty empires.

You cherry picked the end result, not how it happened. Germany and France have been a bunch of loose coalitions between provincial rulers for most of the history. Poland just happened to alienate itself from its neighbours with whom they had more in common and to stick to the roman catholic church no matter what. They also struck coalitions with countries like England from accross the border far away which made even less sense. After the self isolation, the country was used as a buffer zone by different empires accross the time. They were the first line to fall before an empire was reached. Due to this, all of its resources were mobilized to supply its vast military which was disproportionally bigger than its neighbours had. The civilists were mostly very poor, the army strong, the rulers lived like kings.
Their history is much more vast, of course, but that's a super brief summary. Do you know with whom they have most in common? Ukraine and East Germany Laughing
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Post by Adit Tue Oct 20, 2020 2:06 pm

@Babun wrote:
@Myesyats wrote:
@Art Morte wrote:lmao this guy and his obsession with inventions xD

If Egyptians are so much smarter, why is their GDP per capita just 16% of Poland's GDP per capita?

This is such a stupid game btw.

twice the population too

and poland was also busy with 2 world wars and communism for the past 100 years, only started really building up in 2004 after the dust settled and we joined the eu, also before the world wars we wasn't even recognized as country for another 100 years due to occupation, where all our riches were stolen and taken away anyway.

Unpopular opinion: if your country is constantly invaded and destroyed by invaders throughout a prolonged amount of time (900+ years) then maybe just maybe, that country isn't smart and successfull enough to unite and ally themselves with their neighbours to successfuly develop countermeasures so such things never happen again? There is Swiss..
Victim mentality prevents progress to say the least.



This is such a terrible take. This puts the onus of conflict on the victim and not the aggressor . Reeks of social Darwinism.
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Post by Myesyats Tue Oct 20, 2020 2:43 pm

Yeah I disagree. Too broad a topic to get into though.

Also we don't hold any grudges tbh in fact Germany still owes us many billion euros in WW2 reparations and we're not doing anything about it really

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Post by Arquitecto Tue Oct 20, 2020 2:56 pm

Poland has had insane amounts of bad luck over the last century and beyond. Obscene amount not just due to their topographical condition.

If not for the Blitzkrieg Poland would be in a much better place than it is now. The facts have covered how so anyway.

Of course Germany owe them for what happened.
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Post by RealGunner Tue Oct 20, 2020 6:15 pm

Must admit this is a great thread
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Post by Babun Tue Oct 20, 2020 8:21 pm

@Arquitecto wrote:Poland has had insane amounts of bad luck over the last century and beyond. Obscene amount not just due to their topographical condition.

If not for the Blitzkrieg Poland would be in a much better place than it is now. The facts have covered how so anyway.

Of course Germany owe them for what happened.

Nope, which ones? They'd never be able to withstand Soviet Russia. The invasion was inevitable no matter what the Poles proclaim today. The peace pact between Hitler and Stalin wasn't worth the paper it was written on. The Blitzkrieg would've come from the Soviet side.
Germany caused lots of damage with the Blitzkrieg (no questions about it) but the real long lasting damage was done by the UDSSR afterwards for years to come. Poland was even allowed to annect Oberschlesien (current west Poland, was former east Germany) so geographically speaking their land became bigger.
If bad luck is the rule throughout 900+ years of history then something isn't down to luck then, bad decisions maybe, bad rulers but not bad luck.
@Adit wrote:
@Babun wrote:
@Myesyats wrote:

twice the population too

and poland was also busy with 2 world wars and communism for the past 100 years, only started really building up in 2004 after the dust settled and we joined the eu, also before the world wars we wasn't even recognized as country for another 100 years due to occupation, where all our riches were stolen and taken away anyway.

Unpopular opinion: if your country is constantly invaded and destroyed by invaders throughout a prolonged amount of time (900+ years) then maybe just maybe, that country isn't smart and successfull enough to unite and ally themselves with their neighbours to successfuly develop countermeasures so such things never happen again? There is Swiss..
Victim mentality prevents progress to say the least.



This is such a terrible take. This puts the onus of conflict on the victim and not the aggressor . Reeks of social Darwinism.

If Poland were strong they'd invade their neighbours just like their neighbours did to them. Hard to swallow but that's what happened throughout the history in Europe.
@Myesyats wrote:Yeah I disagree. Too broad a topic to get into though.

Also we don't hold any grudges tbh

Most poles hate the Russians the most then Germans. I understand and would do the same if I were them.
@Myesyats wrote: in fact Germany still owes us many billion euros in WW2 reparations and we're not doing anything about it really
Germany is also the majour contributer to the EU budget from which Poland is using a big share to renew its infrastructure. German companies create lots of work places in Poland. Also, lots of Poles work in Germany, my brother's wife is from Poland (that's why I know a lot about them). I like Poles with their modern-conservative views and Poland itself. They're normal people in my views. The PIS stuff and things happening in the rural areas make me concerned, for if one wants peace one should care for their neighbour's wellbeing.
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Post by Myesyats Tue Oct 20, 2020 8:51 pm

Yeah I'm not denying that Germany has done a lot in terms of undoing the wrongs and helping us develop via partnership but some reparations would also be nice now that you're basically an undisputed superpower on the world stage. I'm just joking of course. Very Happy

And PIS is just a phase, they'll lose their support once the super religious generation dies out. We're always a little behind on that stuff compared to western europe...

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Post by FennecFox7 Tue Oct 20, 2020 9:37 pm

It’s not JUST my responsibility to apologize for the actions of an extremist who happens to “follow” the Muslim religion.

I have nothing in common with the guy who beheaded someone. I have tattoos everywhere, piercings, a girlfriend, enjoy techno music, I’m a normal fucking dude. I love bodybuilding, I love footy, and I love the philosopher Albert Camus

I have NOTHING IN COMMON with that awful dickhead.

And guess what, the French government is gonna use this death to harass North Africans. Just like they always do. I’m non practicing. I don’t hate Israel. In fact I think Israel has been put between a rock and a hard place. I feel for them sometimes.

Babun, it’s funny how you’re now lecturing DoC when Tunisia is by far the most secular country in the Arab world, and is wayyy ahead of everyone.

My point is it’s ALL of our responsibilities to rid the world of these extremists. We all have a part to play. Western nations pillage these poor Muslim countries. Extremists use the religion as a pawn to do horrific things. Islamophobia is not okay. Period
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Post by Arquitecto Tue Oct 20, 2020 10:51 pm

Babun you have a good point on that and reading on the efforts of Germany to Poland just today on a third party source, I have no choice but to agree. Well done.
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Post by Arquitecto Tue Oct 20, 2020 10:55 pm

Islamaophobia is just a microcosm of the mind's natural desire to be lazy to which generally is a non trained acute Sapien mind.

It takes into account no variables let alone the theological standing true to Islam which is why "that is not real Islam" is a valid argument as much as it is failed to be backed up by Muslims themselves.

Islamaphobia lacks nuance. Its akin to witnessing a plane crash and then being eternally fearful of boarding a plane.


Cascading fallacy as Ive said before, is real.
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Post by Arquitecto Tue Oct 20, 2020 10:58 pm

Beyond that I low-key wish death upon any fundamentalist of that said religion and as for Guest_07, despite all his peaceful wishes upon us is just setting yet another bad example for his religion.

Ironic given Muslims care for their image well above anyone else from my anecdotal perspective.
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Post by Young Kaz Wed Oct 21, 2020 2:23 am

@Adit wrote:That is such an excuse. You don't need proximity to become a economically wealthy nation. You just need right economics at place. Egyptian inventions shows that their civilization at that time was superior , so was China and India at one point but the civilizational momentum means they couldn't change as fast as other countries into modern era and got left behind in technology.


Its not an excuse, but a reality. One need only look at Poland's list of inventions, and you see a country which would have been wiped out if not for their proximity to power. In fact, The UK entered war with Germany during WW2 because they invaded Poland, and Poland was aligned to the UK.

Having powerful neighbors makes you more powerful by default. Theres no UK without France and Germany.

Theres no India without China

Theres no Canada without the US.

Having powerful, stable, neighbors is the best gift a nation can have. Germany has not been involved in a war in how long? 70 years? Poland greatly benefits from this.

Egypt has to live next to war torn countries...of course it hurts their stability and GDP. The invention list paints a pretty comprehensive picture. Given the same circumstances Egypt easily surpasses Poland on every positive metric. Egypt surpasses most if given similar circumstances.


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Azerbaijan, the liberation of Karabakh - Page 5 Empty Re: Azerbaijan, the liberation of Karabakh

Post by FennecFox7 Wed Oct 21, 2020 3:20 am

Egypt lives next to war torn countries AND is war torn with a dictator in power. No different then the rest of the countries like Algeria, Libya..

I really don’t see what point you’re trying to make. Egyptians technological advancements were a LONG time ago.
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Azerbaijan, the liberation of Karabakh - Page 5 Empty Re: Azerbaijan, the liberation of Karabakh

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