Pjanic at Barca, will Flop or not?

Harmonica wrote:Does it matter? If somebody uses such hyperbole it should be called out. Or are you saying they are saving his freekick for cl final?

I'm asking how many free kicks he took. I cannot find the stat.

Don't remember him taking that much, but i skipped many games under Sarri. How can you make conclusions if you don't know how many attempts. From past seasons, hard to deny Pjanic was a skilled FK taker, if you follow Serie A.

Warrior wrote:

Harmonica wrote:Does it matter? If somebody uses such hyperbole it should be called out. Or are you saying they are saving his freekick for cl final?

I'm asking how many free kicks he took. I cannot find the stat.

Don't remember him taking that much, but i skipped many games under Sarri. How can you make conclusions if you don't know how many attempts. From past seasons, hard to deny Pjanic was a skilled FK taker, if you follow Serie A.

I don't know. What I do know is that he hasn't scored free kick in almost two years. And with intelligence I can make conclusion that he can't be the best in taking them, right?

Harmonica wrote:

Warrior wrote:

Harmonica wrote:Does it matter? If somebody uses such hyperbole it should be called out. Or are you saying they are saving his freekick for cl final?

I'm asking how many free kicks he took. I cannot find the stat.

Don't remember him taking that much, but i skipped many games under Sarri. How can you make conclusions if you don't know how many attempts. From past seasons, hard to deny Pjanic was a skilled FK taker, if you follow Serie A.

I don't know. What I do know is that he hasn't scored free kick in almost two years. And with intelligence I can make conclusion that he can't be the best in taking them, right?

Not really sound logic, as you have to take into account that for the past 2 years Pjanic has played in a team with Ronaldo, who is known for aggressively hogging free kick opportunities while being undeniably terrible at it.

So Pjanic might easily have been the best FK taker on the team and still not getting enough opportunities to score one, logically speaking.

Best in the world, yeah, of course not.

Anyway Dybala is a better free kick taker than Pjanic

Besiktas

Mancano solo gli ultimi dettagli, poi #Pjanic sarà un nuovo giocatore del #Besiktas. Intanto il centrocampista è già in viaggio https://t.co/SAMsnytglw

— Gianluca Di Marzio (@DiMarzio) September 2, 2021

How Besiktas signs him if the deadline is over.

Yep, deadline in Turkey was a couple of days later

Miralem Pjanić has lowered his salary by 60% so right now he earns 3.2 million euros net and Beşiktaş will pay 2.75 million euros of that, leaving Barcelona in a much better position. [cat radio]

— barcacentre (@barcacentre) September 3, 2021

why is he lowering his salary so much? makes no sense, Barca created this mess, don't fn bail them out, not like he's a club legend and owes those numpties anything

This was one of the most pointless and nonsensical transfers of the bartomeu era and there have been many.

Arthur was on €1.7m at barca, 22 years old or so
Swapped for Pjanic, 29 years old, given €7.5m salary.

1298 minutes played, 14 full games, mostly as a sub, little to none impact.

I mean, Arthur is crap, but why swap him with someone whos 7 years older and take on 4x the salary? Some transfers can be justified by most Bartomeu moves are retarded no matter how you spin them

I cant remember exactly the process but it had nothing to do with football. Some kind of book fiddling to make it seem like it was a profitable transfer with the outgoing Arthur "sale" counting as a positive for that time period with the Pjanic signing not appearing in the red until later. Again, I dont remember the process exactly but you know when you are making transfers based on non footballing reasons things are not correct.

Pjanic did himself no favors may I add, he can say he didnt get enough chances and so on but when he did play he put some of the worst defensive effort I have seen from midfielder in some time.

Barca received Pjanic+15m for Arthur i guess. But it was utter crap of a transfer.

Anyone should know it was just another one of those transfers Barto made to pocket money in the middle of it, dont know how but surely hes done that in many of those transfers.

Feel for Pjanic and Arthur, both didnt wanna leave their clubs I think. Surprised Pjanic took such a big step down though, thought he could still choose to go back to Serie A for a bigger club for example...

I've seen folks blame Koeman for the entire Pjanic fiasco, I think thats unfair since Koeman didnt request this transfer and this whole shebang, as has been said before, was another Bartomeu master plan or shady dealing if you will. Cant blame Koeman for not playing Pjanic, number 1 he's been quite poor and number 2 he didnt really fit in

Pjanic was effectively ruined under Allegri in where he did play quite well but was converted from what is an old school classic #10 meant to play up front to an unatcheletically impressive regista with more defensive duties than he is responsible for. One of the biggest tragedies this decade in how a player has been misused but he is that professional where he will do what the coach says and I'd be surprised even if he makes it in Turkey now.

He has no identity now as a player and its a huge shame.

I wanted him back. At low cost why not. It seems the club wanted him back too, not sure if he was just the plan B if Locatelli deal collapsed, or if an agreement could not be found with Barca. Anyways there was interest for Pjanic.

Why he is gone to Turkey at big financial loss i don't know, maybe out of passion for football. It's not a big championship but Besiktas is not irrelevant either, good luck to him i hope he gets his confidence back and we see him again in top clubs.

@Arq we share views on Allegri and this time again. Pjanic is probably his biggest failure, he was crazy good at Roma and all we ever needed was a DM or a physical box-to-box. Yet we pair him with old Khedira and old Matuidi so Pjanic must play in front of defense as poor defender while long passes can be done by Bonucci. It's obvious to play Pjanic at least as a 8.

Arquitecto wrote:Pjanic was effectively ruined under Allegri in where he did play quite well but was converted from what is an old school classic #10 meant to play up front to an unatcheletically impressive regista with more defensive duties than he is responsible for. One of the biggest tragedies this decade in how a player has been misused but he is that professional where he will do what the coach says and I'd be surprised even if he makes it in Turkey now.

He has no identity now as a player and its a huge shame.

Exactly what happened to Fabregas.

Warrior wrote:I wanted him back. At low cost why not. It seems the club wanted him back too, not sure if he was just the plan B if Locatelli deal collapsed, or if an agreement could not be found with Barca. Anyways there was interest for Pjanic.

Why he is gone to Turkey at big financial loss i don't know, maybe out of passion for football. It's not a big championship but Besiktas is not irrelevant either, good luck to him i hope he gets his confidence back and we see him again in top clubs.

@Arq we share views on Allegri and this time again. Pjanic is probably his biggest failure, he was crazy good at Roma and all we ever needed was a DM or a physical box-to-box. Yet we pair him with old Khedira and old Matuidi so Pjanic must play in front of defense as poor defender while long passes can be done by Bonucci. It's obvious to play Pjanic at least as a 8.

Pjanic quite likes Allegri and his strict professionalism I am sure does not blind him from the fact that in his prime years he had to become something he is not as its only his Footballing IQ and deft skills that had him perform in the #8 role but the sacrifice took its toll.


Farfan above is the Lyon fan of the forum so definitely knows what Pjanic was. Huge step down to play only at 30, in a Turkish league.

These poor man Busquets will never be Busquets and every time they try taking their starting spot from him in either Barcelona or Spain he gets it back.

He's one of the greatest DM's ever in terms of build up and defending on the front foot. He gets exposed when he has to cover a shitload of space because he isn't athletic. However that's usually the case with #10's who move to #6 because they weren't athletic enough to play higher up the pitch in the first place.

I don't think there's a single sensible coach who would bench him. Even if he played for Mourinho he would be starting. He just needs protection due to his age and physical deficits.

Jorginho, Rodri, Paredes, and Pjanic. All of them are similar to him, but are worse than him. The Euro's gave me a newfound respect for him. Lots of imitators but no duplicators.

Totally agree. Sadly several consecutive Barca coaches have failed to provide the necessary protection/support around him.

No it isn't. Pirlo doesn't go down as one of the GOATs if he didn't have Gattuso and Ambrosini doing his dirty work. At Juve he had a 5 man backline and Marchisio + Vidal doing it for him.

Jorginho doesn't get Ballon d'or shouts if he wasn't playing next to Kante and a 5 man backline.

Busquets was playing as a sole DM where his RCM was essentially playing as a fake right winger to balance Messi's movements. Then the LCM beside him was someone like Iniesta or Arthur who were hardly athletic workhorses. Then he had two wingbacks in Alba and Alves/Sergi/Semedo who would regularly bomb forward. Let's not forget Messi and Suarez who would never press either then behind him were Pique and Lenglet.

Midfield is all about having a balance in profiles. So yes, necessary support is absolutely a thing.

Casciavit wrote:These poor man Busquets will never be Busquets and every time they try taking their starting spot from him in either Barcelona or Spain he gets it back.

He's one of the greatest DM's ever in terms of build up and defending on the front foot. He gets exposed when he has to cover a shitload of space because he isn't athletic. However that's usually the case with #10's who move to #6 because they weren't athletic enough to play higher up the pitch in the first place.

I don't think there's a single sensible coach who would bench him. Even if he played for Mourinho he would be starting. He just needs protection due to his age and physical deficits.

Jorginho, Rodri, Paredes, and Pjanic. All of them are similar to him, but are worse than him. The Euro's gave me a newfound respect for him. Lots of imitators but no duplicators.

A solid pivot (which Spain doesn't have and Barça never bothered signing) would make him obsolete in an instant

He's not exactly a vertical playmaker/game changer like Pirlo so I don't see the point of building a team around him. Barça should've moved on from players like him and brought in athletic players that could support Messi.

I'd love to know who your definition of a solid pivot is.

Again, Busquets has a unique skill set and I don't disagree with him potentially getting benched if he played for different teams in different systems. However, I honestly think most coaches would find a way to start him provided he can be adequately supported.

However, for the way Barca/Spain plays there's no one better than him on the ball. In terms of build-up, he's still the best in the business. Just because he doesn't spray long balls like Pirlo doesn't negate that.

Spain tried Rodri and Thiago as a DM, and Busquets still took their place. I was told on certain websites that Pjanic would bench him because he's more inclined to do dirty work playing in Serie A. However, he could barely start ahead of him because he didn't know how to defend on the front foot according to Koeman and only knew how to defend deep.

Different DM's have different profiles, and different DM's suit some systems better than others. It's like Xavi said. Busquets wouldn't do as good of a job at Real Madrid in 2017 covering for Carvajal and Marcelo because he would have to cover more open spaces and defend deep. However, at the same time, Casemiro wouldn't do as well at Barca because he isn't that talented on the ball or in the build up.

It reminds me of the Kante argument when Sarri was coach. Premfaces wanted Kante to play as the DM because he was a workhorse, but it completely ignores the way Sarri wants his teams to play. Hence that's why Kante played as an 8 for Sarri, but as a 6 for Deschamps.

The reality is that for teams who play proactive and want to build from the back there's no pivot out there currently who is elite physically, defensively, and on the ball. Most teams playing that way are relying on players who are elite on the ball in those areas and then pairing them with more defensive players to bring balance to the midfield. When those players aren't protected they come off as memes. Jorginho is LITERALLY proof of this. This guy was clowned so much until Tuchel arrived.

So yes, if Busquets post-2015 was actually played to his strengths more he wouldn't be as disrespected as he is right now. Farfan's never liked him though so if you didn't like him and didn't rate him 10 years ago I honestly don't expect you to change your mind now.

My definition of a solid pivot is two midfielders that combine both physicality and technical ability, with both players possessing the two qualities to varying degrees. Think Pogba-Kanté, Makélélé-Viera, Wijnaldum-Fabinho etc..

The last example may seem like a stretch when compared to the other two, but where would you fit Busquets if you have both Gini and Fabinho? He lacks the physicality and defensive abilities of the latter and is unable to bomb forward like the former.