Andrea Pirlo allenatore della Juventus - occhio all' esonero

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Post by Arquitecto on Mon Aug 10, 2020 4:34 am

It just did not make sense for Sarri to abandon what made him famous for a more tactical way considering that simply is not his strength despite his attention to detail. Allegri and Conte utterly blow him out of the water in that and their big match set-ups exemplify that.


First info on Pirlo has come out when it comes to his tactics which is about what I remember. That he seems to like a 4-3-3 and a near Zeman approach of "bombing forward" although I am sure it will be nowhere near as suicidal.

Isco seems to be mentioned by him in which the idea is he wants to have him combine with CR once again, provided Cristiano stays.


The important part is if he at least has a clear idea of what he wants for Pirlo's IQ off the field is generally shown to be quite special based on what he speaks about and how, despite him being quiet.


Gattuso did famously say Pirlo seldom speaks but when he did the whole Milan locker room listened.



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Post by rincon on Mon Aug 10, 2020 6:37 am

Sarri didnt abandon anything, he failed to implement his style. Every report was about him trying over and over again to get our squad playing as he wanted and our squad struggling to make it work. Then it worked in some matches but failed in most. So then Sarri would complain that the team doent get his requests. It's a mismatch.
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Post by Hapless_Hans on Mon Aug 10, 2020 9:37 am

@rincon wrote:I would pick Buffon as #1 coach pick from our recent players. Pirlo would be my other pick.

Trying to piece his profile, Pirlo has said that it was Conte that made him want to be a coach in the first place, and that Conte was the best coach he has ever worked with. Out of a group including Lippi, Trappatoni, Ancelotti and Allegri.

Cannavaro asked him about his preferred system and Pirlo replied that it depends on the players, but generally a 433 big on possession.

Looking forward to what Pirlo can bring, gonna be a wild ride Laughing

I wonder who his coaching team will be. Would have been ideal to have someone like Carrera to support him as he did to Conte.


That's a nice and well, doesn't take away that hiring someone for a top job that hasn't worked in that job for one second is bafflingly nonsensical and reckless.
It doesn't even make sense to call the appointment 'terrible' or something, it's just nonsensical. Noone can know whether Pirlo can do a good job as a manager. It's impossible to know.

Yes, he does seem like the kind of guy who could excel at it (like Alonso) and his playing career experience is uniquely suited to making the transition.
But still, playing football and managing a football team are completely different jobs.

There's all kinds of reasoning and circumstantial arguments to make yourself feel good about this, and I too have a good feeling about this somehow, but honestly something like this quite simply should be a no go at a top club, and is ridiculous decision making. Completely unacceptable.
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Post by S on Mon Aug 10, 2020 10:09 am

At this point, all you can do is be optimistic about this whole thing. It is completely random and unexpected but what can you do. The decision has been made. One way or another, next season is going to be entertaining be it for Juventus fans or the neutrals/haters for different reasons.

I have pretty much no expectations for next season but I just hope in the worst case scenario, I dont end up hating on Pirlo in case things go drastically wrong. Hoping the situation doesn't go that far. Hoping for the best.
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Post by Kaladin on Mon Aug 10, 2020 10:26 am

@rincon wrote:Sarri didnt abandon anything, he failed to implement his style.



Buffon
Khedira
Matuidi
Emre Can
Rabiot
De Sciglio
Danilo
Ramsey
Bentancur
Alex Sandro
Chiellini
Bernardeschi

Of course he couldn't implement his style
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Post by Robespierre on Mon Aug 10, 2020 11:07 am

Italian title is uncorrect though (moreover osservaZione) , sack = esonero , I don't know how I should translate that ' watch' under form of a noun , if it means " take a look at " , then it's fine
" occhio all' esonero "
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Post by rincon on Mon Aug 10, 2020 12:57 pm

@S wrote:At this point, all you can do is be optimistic about this whole thing. It is completely random and unexpected but what can you do. The decision has been made. One way or another, next season is going to be entertaining be it for Juventus fans or the neutrals/haters for different reasons.

I have pretty much no expectations for next season but I just hope in the worst case scenario, I dont end up hating on Pirlo in case things go drastically wrong. Hoping the situation doesn't go that far. Hoping for the best.

This. Except I dont think its possible I can hate Pirlo, no matter how bad things go. Then I'll just want him gone and then continue to love the player he was.

It's all very unknown.

Also, if Inter dont win this next scudetto they should disband the club.
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Post by Hapless_Hans on Mon Aug 10, 2020 1:02 pm

@Robespierre wrote:Italian title is uncorrect though (moreover osservaZione) , sack = esonero , I don't know how I should translate that ' watch' under form of a noun , if it means " take a look at " , then it's fine
" occhio all' esonero "


And once he's been sacked what do we write?

ESONERATO?
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Post by Robespierre on Mon Aug 10, 2020 1:04 pm

@Hapless_Hans wrote:
@Robespierre wrote:Italian title is uncorrect though (moreover osservaZione) , sack = esonero , I don't know how I should translate that ' watch' under form of a noun , if it means " take a look at " , then it's fine
" occhio all' esonero "


And once he's been sacked what do we write?

ESONERATO?


Exactly, SACKED = ESONERATO
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Post by Hapless_Hans on Mon Aug 10, 2020 1:06 pm

Wish Man City would have been ESONERATI by CAS tbh, instead they were exonerated
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Post by Arquitecto on Mon Aug 10, 2020 1:15 pm

Hans really did just give the most reasonable response to this bizarre appointment and not much to add upon until Pirlo's training sessions and interviews come out.


It would be silly to hate Pirlo even if he was infuriating for this is literally his first time nor does it represent the player of the man of course. I would take it more as an experience or for the spectacle itself. Oddly enough Juventus need to begin to fail to set themselves out of the 9 year comfort zone that have eclipsed them as Scudetti by now simply is not enough.



But all signs are leading to Pirlo being an idealist rather than a pragmatist.

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Post by Casciavit on Tue Aug 11, 2020 9:31 am

I've done some digging around on Pirlo and the guy knows ball.

-Called Frenkie the best midfielder in the world
-Says midfield wins you CL
-Likes to play possession 4-3-3 football
-Says systems don't matter but the proper spacial occupation does

These sound like words I've said myself. The last quote alone was enough for me. There are 4 ways he'll turn out:

He'll coach boring sideways possession thinking he's Pep but doesn't implement proper positional play to make it effective think the likes of De Boer or Lopetegui.

He'll coach entertaining possession football but the players don't accept his ideas think Sarri or Setien.

Actually coaches positional football making him closer to the likes of Pep and Conte.

Turns out like Zidane-type who isn't strictly tactically and likes to give his players freedom. Plays cross and inshallah and his strengths lie in man-management instead. Think of a more balanced footballing approach.

Considering he must have given an insane job interview, Agnelli probably expects he'll be getting the third option. Sarri constantly complained about how Juve struggled to defend on the front foot so unless Pirlo does a total clear out I'm not sure how he'll be able to implement that himself.

Rest assured though it will only take me one game to realize whether he has potential or not. When does Serie A start next season?
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Post by Helmer on Tue Aug 11, 2020 10:45 am

so what are the realistic expectations we are talking about for Pirlo ?
1. A 10th Scudetto to continue the trend with the quality and experience of current squad?
2. a CL finish in Serie A ?
3. Just wait till the first 10 games of the season and if Juve are at least in top 3 with max 5 points difference to the top team, they should challenge for a 10th title ?

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Post by rincon on Tue Aug 11, 2020 12:51 pm

1

After winning the scudetto 9 times in a row and having the best team in Italy the expectation is always to win. Of course hiring Pirlo is super risky in this regard, but it is the expectation placed upon Juve.
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Post by Warrior on Tue Aug 11, 2020 1:15 pm

If i cannot talk for all Juve fans, in my mind the objectives are damn clear

We must win the 10th scudetto absolutely, Champions League will be an extra

In intangibles we must also get back some identity, play solid defense and improve the midfield.
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Post by JespSwe on Wed Aug 12, 2020 4:07 am

think Pirlo can and will do it - scudetto yes i think so. CL also they will go far i would say semi final for next year. (depending on market)
have gut feeling that pirlo wants players of the style he used to play - he used to dictate midfield, ball possession and creating chances and he would probably want to make juve just like that.

therefore think he will go for tonali, or someone creative type of players upfront (like seedorf). someone who can not only control midfield but create chance upfront not a direct pressing football no i dont think he would play like that.
anyway objective wise i think pirlo could win scudetto and go upto semi final in CL


Last edited by JespSwe on Wed Aug 12, 2020 5:09 am; edited 1 time in total
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Post by JespSwe on Wed Aug 12, 2020 4:08 am

@ Casciavit , Sept 19
new serie a season will start
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Post by Arquitecto on Wed Aug 12, 2020 9:49 am

Gentlemen the elephant in the room I am not seeing mentioned is if Cristiano stays or not.

Im not too well informed on if recent sources on his temptation for PSG are correct or not but key Juventus fans here can predict that for me and of course, Nostradamus Nick who calls it the best on the forum imo.

If CR does leave Juve will have little to boast about and Dybala is not a man to carry a team by any means despite being world class.


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Post by Warrior on Wed Aug 12, 2020 10:33 am

The rumors are false

Everybody is always linked to PSG, even De Sciglio was
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Post by Arquitecto on Sat Aug 15, 2020 9:08 pm

So despite all reports of CR aiming for a leave to PSG or Juve offering him to any club to clear the burden of his wages, recent reports suggest otherwise.

Apparently the clear out won't include Dybala and CR and that Cristiano reportedly was enthused by the appointment of Pirlo.

If anyone can give info on the CR situation that'd be appreciated
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Post by Hapless_Hans on Sun Aug 16, 2020 9:25 am

Jonathan Wilson is not amused. This Juve takedown is a good read, and mirrors much of my sentiments

https://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2020/aug/15/andrea-pirlos-vineyard-is-not-a-reason-to-think-he-will-be-a-vintage-manager

[..] But the issue here is not Pirlo; it’s Juventus and why they should turn to a candidate with no relevant experience. This is their third major gamble in two years. First there was the €100m, plus bonuses, plus solidarity payments, plus €31m‑a‑year wages splurged on the then 33-year-old Cristiano Ronaldo in the belief his goals would bring the Champions League. Then last summer there was the dismissal of Max Allegri despite five successive league titles and the appointment of Maurizio Sarri, apparently to introduce a modern, fluent style of football. And perhaps that would have made them more likely to win the Champions League had the expenditure on Ronaldo not meant cost-cutting elsewhere, and had the essentially static presence of Ronaldo not gummed the mechanisms.

Given the board apparently wants two incompatible things – fluid football and Ronaldo – that no existing coach could possibly achieve, why not turn to a coach who doesn’t yet exist?
Particularly when that coach is stylish and marketable in a way the chain‑smoking sixtysomething grouch he replaces could never be. [..]
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Post by Casciavit on Sun Aug 16, 2020 9:30 am

I genuinely wonder what it is that he said during his interview. It's such a weird appointment lol.
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Post by Casciavit on Sun Aug 16, 2020 9:45 am

Just did some digging around and I've been reading that he's been studying De Zerbi comps. The guy is studying tapes of his build-up.

I have no doubt it, he must have sold that he will play Pep-esque football to the Juve management. His first presser and first Serie A game of the season will add credence to my original assumption. What do you think Arq?
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Post by rincon on Sun Aug 16, 2020 10:28 am

@Arquitecto wrote:So despite all reports of CR aiming for a leave to PSG or Juve offering him to any club to clear the burden of his wages, recent reports suggest otherwise.

Apparently the clear out won't include Dybala and CR and that Cristiano reportedly was enthused by the appointment of Pirlo.

If anyone can give info on the CR situation that'd be appreciated

None of these reports came from Italy. Ronaldo is not in question. He has been confirmed by everyone.

The clear out is about Matuidi, Khedira, Higuain, etc. The old players who arenr contributing. Khedira and Higuain are reportedly being difficult about it.

There is a problem of budget post covid. So the club needs to sell and do swaps. If the nature of the transition is deeper than just a few players then in fact selling Dybala might come into play, as most coaches (like Allegri and rumoured Pirlo) prefer to play with a normal CF.

I'll do the usual summer transfer Juve thread again.
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Post by Babun on Sun Aug 16, 2020 11:13 am

I'm really curious about Pirlo, he was quite a mastermind during his Milan days. Also his career is interesting because he started as a CF/SS but was convertend into a deep lying playmaker. The way Milan played in their prime was more similar to the modern high pressing game. I wish him good luck.
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Post by rincon on Wed Sep 02, 2020 12:00 pm

First 3 official matches in Pirlo's career:

Sampdoria
@Roma
Napoli

No time to waste then
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