USA Gun Violence & Police Brutality Thread

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Post by BarrileteCosmico Mon Jun 08, 2020 5:42 pm

CBarca wrote:Regardless of how you feel about the city council's decision, can someone please give me an explanation of why they decided to come out with all of this before they had a concrete transition plan already in place? I should be more specific: an explanation that doesn't revolve around the idea of appeasing people who want change NOW?

I understand that people are hurting and the city is too, and you want to fix the problem.

However, I don't understand why you would announce all of this without a plan. How quickly are they going to act? How exactly are MPD officers supposed to feel about going out on the streets right now knowing that the city is currently actively looking to fire you?

I have to imagine that the only sensible thing to do right now is to completely disband the MPD right now and let county/state police come in in the meantime? Public support for MPD is probably pretty low right now which is its own issue, and now the entire police department has been notified of their termination. I just can't see that being any sort of even half functioning relationship at the moment.
Because they're just throwing out ideas for the past 10 days and this one finally stuck. Clearly this doesn't have the hallmark of a well thought out plan but the Minneapolis police has also fought every inch of reform so it's hard to feel for them at all.

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Post by CBarca Mon Jun 08, 2020 5:54 pm

I don't feel for MPD at all, but I think even at a common sense level, this seems rushed and doesn't seem to be a good idea public health wise. I've got a lot of friends in the twin cities, and while I'm sure they'll be fine, I don't get a relieved feeling knowing what I mentioned earlier (what is now a completely broken relationship with no immediate fix or even band-aid)
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Post by Hapless_Hans Mon Jun 08, 2020 6:49 pm

It's a brilliant idea "public health wise" to fundamentally reform, reorganize, defund and reorganize police departments

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Post by BarrileteCosmico Mon Jun 08, 2020 7:29 pm

CBarca wrote:I don't feel for MPD at all, but I think even at a common sense level, this seems rushed and doesn't seem to be a good idea public health wise. I've got a lot of friends in the twin cities, and while I'm sure they'll be fine, I don't get a relieved feeling knowing what I mentioned earlier (what is now a completely broken relationship with no immediate fix or even band-aid)


There would be a transition period during which the old police would still exist. In the unlikely event they would all quit overnight in protest there's always state police, sheriffs & the national guard.

That said, if they were to all quit at once then there would be no need to eliminate the police as they could just start from the ground up there.

Also interesting read:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-06-04/how-camden-new-jersey-reformed-its-police-department

The transformation began after the 2012 homicide spike. The department wanted to put more officers on patrol but couldn’t afford to hire more, partly because of generous union contracts. So in 2013, the mayor and city council dissolved the local PD and signed an agreement for the county to provide shared services. The new county force is double the size of the old one, and officers almost exclusively patrol the city. (They were initially nonunion but have since unionized.) Increasing the head count was a trust-building tactic, says Thomson, who served as chief throughout the transition: Daily, noncrisis interactions between residents and cops went up. Police also got de-escalation training and body cameras, and more cameras and devices to detect gunfire were installed around the city.

Basically dissolving a police department is just a way to get around non-cooperating unions
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Post by CBarca Mon Jun 08, 2020 8:50 pm

No, I'm aware of that, which is why I said "I have to imagine that the only sensible thing to do right now is to completely disband the MPD right now and let county/state police come in in the meantime?" -- like what you mention with Camden. But so far there is no plan or talk of that happening. To me that's what needs to happen right now, but it isn't.

My argument is that they need to be replaced now with county, state & national guard, because relying on a Police department that (1) everyone now hates and has little trust and (2) everyone in the PD is aware now that they are losing their jobs, is to me, stupid. The relationship is broken beyond repair now. Destroy it and get a transitional force in now instead of waiting.
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Post by CBarca Mon Jun 08, 2020 8:56 pm

Hapless_Hans wrote:It's a brilliant idea "public health wise" to fundamentally reform, reorganize, defund and reorganize police departments



My point is here ---> x        

Your response is over here --------------------------------------------------------> x

I never said I felt that reforming the police is a bad idea, I said the way in which they are doing it right now is irresponsible.
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Post by Freeza Tue Jun 09, 2020 12:50 am

Casually just breaking international law because you won't stop killing people:

https://observers.france24.com/en/20200608-usa-journalists-arrested-attacked-law-enforcement-protest

Wiping their ass in the most important amendment in the American society.
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Post by McLewis Tue Jun 09, 2020 3:56 am

Freeza wrote: USA Gun Violence & Police Brutality Thread - Page 22 EZ_4gHOXsAAEzpw?format=jpg&name=large

Nancy Pelosi out here using police violence as another PR opportunity while wearing what I assume is an African scarf of some sort


Saw this on my twitter feed while I was making breakfast this morning and cringed out of my house shoes.

This is far too much.
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Post by CBarca Tue Jun 09, 2020 5:41 am

It's so bad. Nancy Pelosi has to be one of the most unlikeable members of Congress. She's cringe with literally every move
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Post by LeVersacci Tue Jun 09, 2020 6:32 am

Don't forget Jamie Dimon kneeling outside a vault Laughing

 USA Gun Violence & Police Brutality Thread - Page 22 IMG_2788
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Post by Babun Tue Jun 09, 2020 6:35 am

Nancy Pelosi is the physical embodiment of a Karen for all people to see.

@BC
As far as I know, the problem has been going on since 40 years. The county itself is responsible for its police so racism aside police brutality there developed under exclusive rule of democrats (Minnesota). I think they are about to do the same mistake again: use the BLM banner to reduce costs and destroy unions. The result will be less educated/schooled police. Don't think that'll help. It's give and take, proper screening, recruitment and pay cost money.
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Post by Young Kaz Tue Jun 09, 2020 1:32 pm



Fuck NHK. i cant believe they used my money to make bullshit about my countrymen. They are going to have to refund me, my grandpa, and My sisters money immediately. We dont support that.

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Post by Harmonica Tue Jun 09, 2020 1:35 pm



Well this was fun.
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Post by BarrileteCosmico Tue Jun 09, 2020 2:02 pm

Babun wrote:Nancy Pelosi is the physical embodiment of a Karen for all people to see.

@BC
As far as I know, the problem has been going on since 40 years. The county itself is responsible for its police so racism aside police brutality there developed under exclusive rule of democrats (Minnesota). I think they are about to do the same mistake again: use the BLM banner to reduce costs and destroy unions. The result will be less educated/schooled police. Don't think that'll help. It's give and take, proper screening, recruitment and pay cost money.
In the US police unions work to protect the members from the consequences of their actions rather than to improve the force. So far, they have (on the most part) proven to be an obstacle in the way of progress rather than a partner in it.
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Post by Harmonica Tue Jun 09, 2020 2:11 pm

BarrileteCosmico wrote:
Babun wrote:Nancy Pelosi is the physical embodiment of a Karen for all people to see.

@BC
As far as I know, the problem has been going on since 40 years. The county itself is responsible for its police so racism aside police brutality there developed under exclusive rule of democrats (Minnesota). I think they are about to do the same mistake again: use the BLM banner to reduce costs and destroy unions. The result will be less educated/schooled police. Don't think that'll help. It's give and take, proper screening, recruitment and pay cost money.
In the US police unions work to protect the members from the consequences of their actions rather than to improve the force. So far, they have (on the most part) proven to be an obstacle in the way of progress rather than a partner in it.
Police Union is a corporation, which for the first and most important rule is, to protect itself.

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Post by Firenze Wed Jun 10, 2020 12:22 am

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Post by Babun Wed Jun 10, 2020 7:04 am

@BC
The unions aren't above the state law or hire/pay the people. They're there to improve the pay or/and working conditions. Some unions do crazy stuff to justify their existence but still they cannot breach the enforcement of the state law.
I don't believe the narrative. It's the kind of pills higher ups give to people to justify their wrongdoings. The state needs to reform its own policies as an employer THEN disband unions or police departments which aren't in line with the new framework provided by the law/policies/directives. Scapegoating never solved problems.
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Post by futbol_bill Wed Jun 10, 2020 1:35 pm

Babs you are trying to preach norms to a fucked up country. It’s not just Trump and co that has led to all this, but he / they have sure exasperated it. The first step to trying to resolve the mess, which will take years and majority of those in power working together (a near impossibility), would be to get rid of the agitator.
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Post by Freeza Wed Jun 10, 2020 1:42 pm

They should let the cops strike and see crime fall.

That’ll kill the unions’ bargaining power
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Post by Hapless_Hans Wed Jun 10, 2020 2:28 pm

Harmonica wrote:

Well this was fun.


what a sad, annoying waste of everyone's time
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Post by Art Morte Wed Jun 10, 2020 2:43 pm

BBC removed Little Britain and HBO removed Gone With the Wind, kinda ridiculous, imo.
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Post by BarrileteCosmico Wed Jun 10, 2020 2:50 pm

Babun wrote:@BC
The unions aren't above the state law or hire/pay the people. They're there to improve the pay or/and working conditions. Some unions do crazy stuff to justify their existence but still they cannot breach the enforcement of the state law.
I don't believe the narrative. It's the kind of pills higher ups give to people to justify their wrongdoings. The state needs to reform its own policies as an employer THEN disband unions or police departments which aren't in line with the new framework provided by the law/policies/directives. Scapegoating never solved problems.


It's different in Germany.

Look at this video by the head of the NYPD union, does this seem like someone that would embrace whatever changes the government put in place?



Or this guy, that after the mayor changed the rules as you suggest, went out of his way to break them anyways?



Just to be clear, I'm not saying this is only the unions' fault, they are just another screwed up piece of the puzzle.
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Post by Harmonica Wed Jun 10, 2020 4:34 pm

Art Morte wrote:BBC removed Little Britain and HBO removed Gone With the Wind, kinda ridiculous, imo.
Holy shit really? Well I don't have to bother with that company anymore then.
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Post by Thimmy Wed Jun 10, 2020 4:38 pm

What does Little Britain have to do with anything? scratch
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Post by Art Morte Wed Jun 10, 2020 5:18 pm

Thimmy wrote:What does Little Britain have to do with anything? scratch


I didn't read details, but I think Walliams blacks up in some sketches.

Little Britain takes the shit out of everyone in equal measure, though, it's ridiculous to ban it on racism grounds.
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Post by Thimmy Wed Jun 10, 2020 6:22 pm

Ah, thanks for clarifying. I haven’t seen that.
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