USA Gun Violence & Police Brutality Thread

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Post by Duronto-Roddur on Thu Aug 06, 2020 6:10 pm

Was it necessary (or prudent) to share such things!!!

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Post by Warrior on Thu Aug 06, 2020 10:31 pm

Another guntard who thinks he's a big goon

Is that not disgusting :facepalm:

https://www.ktvu.com/news/burger-king-employee-killed-after-customer-complains-about-long-drive-thru-line
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Post by McLewis on Sat Aug 08, 2020 2:32 am

As I've become accustomed to saying: They're all "lawful gun owners" until they're not.

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Post by Babun on Tue Aug 11, 2020 10:49 am

This happened:
https://abc7chicago.com/shooter-hurt-after-gunfire-exchanged-with-police-in-englewood-cpd-/6362844/

Then someone in the BLM community started a rumor on twitter the dude was 15y old and wrongfully shot, let's loot some. This happened afterwards:
https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/breaking/ct-chicago-downtown-looting-20200810-3zwa3b7zzrc5vdyb4qjqywrjvu-story.html

The homicide rate is skyrocketing. Do those cities really need less police funding?
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Post by Hapless_Hans on Tue Aug 11, 2020 11:39 am

Yes.
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Post by Myesyats on Tue Aug 11, 2020 2:19 pm

Banning guns altogether should be more urgent than defunding police.

It's a big part of the brutality, because policemen are inclined to be more brutal from the get-go if the possibility of the offender having a gun is high. Strictly no guns allowed everywhere = less incentive for police to also use guns.

Obviously re-training is also needed but these two issues go hand in hand.

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Post by McLewis on Tue Aug 11, 2020 3:11 pm

@Babun wrote:This happened:
https://abc7chicago.com/shooter-hurt-after-gunfire-exchanged-with-police-in-englewood-cpd-/6362844/

Then someone in the BLM community started a rumor on twitter the dude was 15y old and wrongfully shot, let's loot some. This happened afterwards:
https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/breaking/ct-chicago-downtown-looting-20200810-3zwa3b7zzrc5vdyb4qjqywrjvu-story.html

The homicide rate is skyrocketing. Do those cities really need less police funding?

So I'm not from Chicago, but I was born and raised 30 minutes away over the stateline in Indiana. So I have a fairly good grasp on the dynamic at play there because a similar dynamic is at play here in Detroit.

Both cities experienced an event called "white flight" in the 60s and early 70s, which was the exodus of white families from the inner portions of the cities to their suburbs where wealth gets accumulated faster, leaving mostly poor black families living in the inner city areas. The crime waves of the 70s and 80s,along with the crack epidemic that swept the nation during those times contributed heavily to the situation along with the general economic unrest. What isn't commented on much outside of the city is that much of Chicago's police force lives in these predominantly white suburbs so they are policing areas that they have no connection to. This, along with their militarized training that emphasizes dehumanizing potential suspects rather than de-escalation, has led to a lot of officer-invokved shootings.

As for as crime goes, Chicago has some of the strictest gun laws in the country. It is quite diffuclt for citizens to legally own and carry them inside the city limits. Criminals naturally do not have this problem by their very nature, so this has led to a lot of gun violence, mostly between gangs as well as with police, with a lot of innocents getting caught in the crossfire. Why does Chicago have so many guns despite strict gun laws? Simple. Republican controlled Indiana.

Indiana has very lax gun laws, by virtue of being a conservative, Republican controlled state. As such, guns from its Northwest corner, where I'm from, flow freely into hands of criminals in Chicago, supplying them with a near endless access guns of all types. If Indiana had stricter gun laws, that stems the flow. Without those weapons, Chicago would have less gun violence. Would it have less overall violence? Yes, I believe so. Would it have overall less violent crime? Not so sure. Poverty breeds crime and Chicago has a lot of poverty, as does Detroit.

I think the term "de fund the police" is no longer accurate. Many need to be rebuilt and rebooted from the ground up, with approximate funding. Chicago is one of them. It also has one of the most powerful police unions in the country. No real change can happen until that organization is broken up.
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Post by Babun on Fri Aug 14, 2020 12:05 pm

@McLewis wrote:
@Babun wrote:This happened:
https://abc7chicago.com/shooter-hurt-after-gunfire-exchanged-with-police-in-englewood-cpd-/6362844/

Then someone in the BLM community started a rumor on twitter the dude was 15y old and wrongfully shot, let's loot some. This happened afterwards:
https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/breaking/ct-chicago-downtown-looting-20200810-3zwa3b7zzrc5vdyb4qjqywrjvu-story.html

The homicide rate is skyrocketing. Do those cities really need less police funding?

So I'm not from Chicago, but I was born and raised 30 minutes away over the stateline in Indiana. So I have a fairly good grasp on the dynamic at play there because a similar dynamic is at play here in Detroit.

Both cities experienced an event called "white flight" in the 60s and early 70s, which was the exodus of white families from the inner portions of the cities to their suburbs where wealth gets accumulated faster, leaving mostly poor black families living in the inner city areas. The crime waves of the 70s and 80s,along with the crack epidemic that swept the nation during those times contributed heavily to the situation along with the general economic unrest. What isn't commented on much outside of the city is that much of Chicago's police force lives in these predominantly white suburbs so they are policing areas that they have no connection to. This, along with their militarized training that emphasizes dehumanizing potential suspects rather than de-escalation, has led to a lot of officer-invokved shootings.

As for as crime goes, Chicago has some of the strictest gun laws in the country. It is quite diffuclt for citizens to legally own and carry them inside the city limits. Criminals naturally do not have this problem by their very nature, so this has led to a lot of gun violence, mostly between gangs as well as with police, with a lot of innocents getting caught in the crossfire. Why does Chicago have so many guns despite strict gun laws? Simple. Republican controlled Indiana.

Indiana has very lax gun laws, by virtue of being a conservative, Republican controlled state. As such, guns from its Northwest corner, where I'm from, flow freely into hands of criminals in Chicago, supplying them with a near endless access guns of all types. If Indiana had stricter gun laws, that stems the flow. Without those weapons, Chicago would have less gun violence. Would it have less overall violence? Yes, I believe so. Would it have overall less violent crime? Not so sure. Poverty breeds crime and Chicago has a lot of poverty, as does Detroit.

I think the term "de fund the police" is no longer accurate. Many need to be rebuilt and rebooted from the ground up, with approximate funding. Chicago is one of them. It also has one of the most powerful police unions in the country. No real change can happen until that organization is broken up.

So we agree, a structural reform of the police needed which requires money so defunding the police does the opposite.
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Post by Myesyats on Fri Aug 21, 2020 7:57 pm

Man dies in Arizona after being restrained by police on hot tarmac for six minutes

https://news.sky.com/story/man-dies-in-arizona-after-being-restrained-by-police-on-hot-tarmac-for-six-minutes-12053541

110 degrees outside means the tarmac could have been around 170 degrees (76 celcius). Inhuman

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Post by BarrileteCosmico on Fri Aug 21, 2020 9:20 pm

This belongs on this thread instead

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-slovakia-belgium-idUSKBN25H1QF

Looks like Belgium have their own George Floyd case, the police were joking around and doing the Nazi salute as they killed a Slovakian man

The case is from 2018 but only re-surfaced recently
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Post by Thimmy on Sun Aug 23, 2020 3:42 am

 USA Gun Violence & Police Brutality Thread - Page 30 Cdede810


Lene Martinsen (21) was teargassed after, according to herself, doing nothing but shouting «do not use chemical weapons against children» towards a local group of police officers who were present at a political demonstration in Bergen.

She was there to demonstrate against the controversial, Islam-hostile group, SIAN‘s presentation. The police had already set up barriers, in order to keep the political groups seperate. SIAN leader, Lars Thorsen was attacked and the situation got out of control. Lene says that the police officers suddenly put on gas masks, and as a senior, she felt it was her duty to defend her minors, who looked as young as 16 years old according to herself.


SIAN immediately ceased their marking/presentation, and the police gradually withdrew by using a «passive approach» to keep things peaceful. After this, Lene, together with several other, young demonstrants, went over to the police station to further their complaints about the actions of the police.

According to herself, she just so happened to be standing next to a 13 year old kid at the time, and did nothing but use her umbrella to shield the kid while shouting «do not use chemical weapons against children!» for a second time. «I figured it was better to do so, than to run away», she says.


«Suddenly, a policeman came and tackled me. He told me to leave unless I wanted to be arrested», she says. SIAN’s leader, Thorsen claims that glass bottles and sticks were thrown at the police and towards the police station. Another witness claims that the demonstrants were banging on frying pans while shouting «no racists in our streets!». The operation leader of the police says that the use of CS gas became a last resort when the barrier was broken down by the demonstrants. A local student claims that the police were specifically teargassing children who were in their early teens

This SIAN group sounds like a bunch of dicks who’ll never amount to anything, but more than anything, I’m so sick and tired of these hypocritical, virtue signaling kids who just want a piece of the social media attention cake by acting like victims to any kind of oppression or discrimination they’ve seen somewhere else in the world.

It may sound really cynical, but I wouldn’t be surprised if these retarded teens brought kids to the demonstration, for the purpose of their agenda. Some people really are that desperate, these days. I can’t think of any other reason why there’d be kids hanging around at demonstrations, or outside of a police station. What a shit show.

They say you shouldn’t judge a book by it’s cover, but this demonstrant looks exactly like the teenagers who hang around in my local park all day, smoke weed and spend all of their tiny brain power on finding a political cause online that they can latch onto.

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Post by Warrior on Sun Aug 23, 2020 10:39 am

I'll start by saying police are wrong for using tear gas or any weapon against unarmed citizens, in this case, there are other ways to separate a crowd, with strategic positioning

But yes, i admit it's tiring to receive morale lessons by students who read leftist brochures, by Hollywood actors whose job is to smoke pot and make shit films, by journalists who are actually professional opinion givers, by exuberants on social medias, by crooked politicians such as Justin Trudeau etc
For this reason social injustice don't stimulate me anymore, since the middle of 2010s decade, like you i became too cynical.

Be correct not politically correct... preach by example as being a decent person, curious and respectful... but then i don't suffer the discrimination personally, it's easy to be passive and leave protests to others, many of us "annoyed" white males sound like assholes because of that Laughing but so be it tbh
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Post by Thimmy on Sun Aug 23, 2020 11:15 pm

Yeah, I wouldn’t normally advocate the use of tear gas either, but after witnessing how entitled, aggressive and violent protesters and demonstrants can be, in recent years, I have a higher level of understanding for why it can sometimes be the most passive aggressive alternative.

Ideologies/politics can, at the worst, turn people into uncivillized monsters, and sometimes it only takes 2-3 individuals to turn a relatively harmless crowd into an out of control, mosh pit of destruction.

From what I understand, some of these demonstrants were using kids as shields and throwing bricks and glass bottles at police officers. They managed to break down the barrier that was set up, and started attacking the police, as well as the other group that was present, injuring their leader by smashing a glass bottle to his head.

I sure as hell wouldn’t want to be the police in such a situation. It would also frustrate me to no end that the group who started the violence and chaos, cowardly hide behind kids and act like victims after the fact. I can’t deal with such shit Laughing
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Post by McLewis on Mon Aug 24, 2020 12:10 am

They sound like the Proud Boys here in the US.

QANON gets all the attention here, but the real conspiracy here is that these paramilitary, alt-right groups have successfully penetrated police forces all over this country. It's the modern equivalent of police and local governments being populated with KKK members.
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Post by CBarca on Mon Aug 24, 2020 3:48 am

Y'all will probably be seeing a clip that just surfaced in WI tomorrow

It's disgusting. I can't believe how often this shit is happening
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Post by McLewis on Mon Aug 24, 2020 2:59 pm



The video.
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Post by CBarca on Mon Aug 24, 2020 3:30 pm

There are no excuses

From what I heard he is in serious, but stable, condition (somehow...thank god).

I hope he makes it. Rarely do we get to see these victims actually live through the experience.
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Post by McLewis on Mon Aug 24, 2020 5:51 pm

I'm glad he's still alive. I want to hear his side of the story. So often we never get that. From what I gather, his 3 kids were in the car. That's probably why he tried to get back into it.

And to think, he was trying to stop a domestic dispute.

The ALM crowd are already character assassinating him though. My overriding problem is that we have ceded a significant amount of personal freedom to law enforcement under the guise of "protect and serve". Conservatives are deficit hawks and all about "small, limited government" when it comes to education and Healthcare, but they have no problem handing police departments a blank check to do whatever it is they want. They are hypocrites of the highest order.
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Post by Warrior on Mon Aug 24, 2020 10:21 pm

These police officers belong in prison, for the rest of their lives
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Post by BarrileteCosmico on Mon Aug 24, 2020 10:48 pm

I'm going to pass on the NSFLife video. I'm sure it's awful though and hope he recovers fully.
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Post by CBarca on Thu Aug 27, 2020 4:14 am

To support something McLewis was saying earlier, there will be no improvement until something is done about police unions.

And yeah, you can be pro-labor, pro-union and be anti-police union. While they don't operate any different in terms of a mission as other unions, between the line of work and what we know about how they operate, they are far more nefarious.

But unfortunately I don't think we're in for a small ride. Where things get fucked up but we manage to right the ship relatively quickly. Everything that's going on is only furthering a divide that is occurring within the populace (or a sizeable portion of it) and the police. We're going to see way more right wing, potentially racist candidates in the police now more than ever. Police are leaning into their culture now more than ever.

Governmental action might help, but communities across the US are in the need of a reckoning. All communities are far from absolution
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Post by Thimmy on Thu Aug 27, 2020 12:32 pm

@BarrileteCosmico wrote:I'm going to pass on the NSFLife video. I'm sure it's awful though and hope he recovers fully.


I wouldn’t describe the video as «extremely graphic», but you do see and hear gunshots being fired several times, a woman jumping and screaming, car horns, and the guy behind the camera casually saying «wooooooooow».
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Post by Myesyats on Thu Aug 27, 2020 12:34 pm

I still stand by my point that civilian gun ownership is a big part of the problem too.

In Poland there is 2.5 guns per 100 inhabitants, the police carry pistols but nobody NEVER ever gets shot.

 USA Gun Violence & Police Brutality Thread - Page 30 Ywxqcccvwbj51

This pathology in US police has formed because US in general is obssesed with guns.

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Post by Warrior on Thu Aug 27, 2020 12:48 pm

They will say "he went to his car to grab a gun" to justify... it's pure bull shit

The video is atrocious, it's not gory graphic, but it expose the lowest humanity can get. Such cowardness. It was execution style

- Abolish second amendment is essential
- Then ban police union (usually unions are just a mere scam for employees, but in police it seems to be some guntard country club)
- Make police criminally liable for abuse of power

Racism in itself will decrease as millenials get into the positions of importance in society. We are used to diversity for the immense majority it's not a problem. But police ? seems a sub-culture
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Post by VivaStPauli on Thu Aug 27, 2020 7:38 pm

I mean it isn't just pure numbers, it is also society and culture, I know you look at that map that Myesyats posted and you see that most of Europe isn't red, but France and Germany are in the yellow, meaning 18-20 guns per 100 people, that is still a lot of guns considering nobody needs one.
But there's strict laws so you can basically never carry them, and especially never carry them loaded, so the police don't have the expectation of being shot at every turn. There is also general trust in police, so less vigilantes accidentally shooting the wrong people, that also calms things down. And this is because the police get educated better, mostly by being educated longer.

But all-in-all, I don't think even the worst kind of police training tells officers to shoot unarmed people in the back. It's this hyper-militarized society that has everybody on edge. Disarm people, remove all concealed carry permits from civilians, and go from there.
Also police needs to get trained a hell of a lot longer.

But man I watched that video. Depressing AF.
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Post by McLewis on Thu Aug 27, 2020 11:28 pm

Americans will never allow themselves to be disarmed. And I'm not just talking about Conservatives and Republicans. That's everyone.

At this particular point in time, Black American gun ownership is actually rising. I have never shot a gun before. Never even held one. My brother thinks I'm crazy because I live near Detroit (one of the most violent cities in the country) and refuse to buy a gun. I have never thought more about owning one now than at any point in my life, what stops me has always been: What's the point? Police don't fear what could be in our hands, not what's actually in or not in them. It doesn't matter to them that so many of us have no intention of doing them any harm. That is what sticking to statistics and numbers will do without controlling for actual thoughts and emotions. They see us as purely statistics, as people who are likely to do them harm because the statistics fed to them and drilled into them tell them that's what we will do, even if our intentions are otherwise. And so they have this inherent fear/need to get ahead of the statistic by doing harm to us first if/when we interact. And the unions backing them will justify it. The politicians backing those unions will make sure that the laws on the books protect them and not us. They're killing us when we're unarmed so what difference does having a gun make? It just aids in the posthumous character assassination that the right-wing media are already beginning to do to Jacob Blake, citing his criminal record as a read he no longer deserve to walk again let alone breath again. They did the same with George Floyd, Ahmaud Arbery, Breonna Taylor, Eric Garner, and so many others. The cops cite the acknowledgement of a knife being at the scene of the crime as tacit proof that Blake intended them harm and so they shot him before he could act on any of it. This is thought policing. This is what we saw in Minority Report. It's not actual policing. Actual police work takes empathy. These cops had none for Jacob Blake.

Juxtapose that with what went down with Ryan Rittenhouse, a 17 year old boy who shot and killed 2 protesters. He's not from Kenosha and he travelled to these protests from out of state. He went looking for trouble and he found it. Pro-police crowds are decrying how he's been treated. 17 years old. You know who else was 17 years old, but they treated like he was 27 years old? Trayvon Martin, who is dead because he had the audacity to be young, black and not afraid to defend himself when threatened. If you want to truly understand why these protests are happening, just look at the pedestal right-wing media have put this boy on while tearing down Martin and Tamir Rice, who didn't even have a real gun when he was summarily killed by cops. What did cops do for Rittenhouse? Nothing. They left him alone until he killed 2 people and wounded 2 others.  Because he was white and not a perceived statistical threat to them.

The cop that shot Jacob Blake is NOT going to get charged with a crime. He will very likely get either this job back in Kenosha or he'll be able to get another one elsewhere. That's the power of a police union. No other union in this country has that type of power and it comes down to political symbiotic apparatus that exists behind it. The only way to break that power dynamic is by changing the political landscape at a local level, where the unions have significant power. It's a nigh on impossible task, particularly in the areas that need it most (suburbs of cities like Chicago, Atlanta, Minneapolis, etc). It's never been tried before though. It really should be.

That's how this works though. That's why protests are happening. And there's no end to it in sight.
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