Re: USA Gun Violence & Police Brutality Thread

[LeVersacci]

Hoping to see police deaths in the progress.

This is fucked up

If it was directed to say, Scandinavian police then I would agree.

AmeriKKKa police and their history? Never.

[El Gunner]

It absolutely does.  You can't act bigoted and stereotypical in one direction... and then demand and expect differently in the other one.

Being a policeman is a tough job and one where you have to have each other's back.  It's similar to the military.  You follow the chain of command no matter what because that's the only way you stay safe.  You follow orders.  99% of the time, they do a great job as this chart irrefutably shows:

https://www.statista.com/statistics/191237/reported-property-crime-rate-in-the-us-since-1990/

Do they fuck up 1% of the time?  Sure.  You have bad apples.  They should get punished.  But I will not stand idly by when people attack the overall work of the police who do a heck of a job to keep us safe.  

Having your brothers back doesn't mean that you sit idly by while they do shit that's wrong though. That wouldn't occur in a family. It shouldn't occur in the police force or the military.

That's a huge issue in both the military and police.

I understand what you're saying though. Both forces rely strongly on the idea of having your brother's back as you literally enter life and death situations. It makes it difficult to rat a brother out when they do wrong. Hell, it might even warp your perception of what is wrong and what is right.

I don't think these are easy issues to solve.

The easiest and biggest thing to do is diversify the police force. This desperately needs to happen in education, too. I think one of the biggest questions of the day should be: how can we get more people of color in the police force? How can we get more POC in the educational system?

To me...  and this is what I tell kids in underprivileged circumstances...  you figure out a path where you control the variables.  Namely, you.  Changing the police is completely out of your hands (and the fact is, crime is at an all-time low in the United States... so there's no appetite there).  

In short, you make yourself untouchable.  As Fennec said, do well in school, get an education, and take the power.  Then, nobody can fuck with you.

Regardless of what anyone says, the US is the #1 place for opportunity.  Anybody can "make it".  It's as close to a meritocracy as there is in the world.  Are there more challenges for those in lower socioeconomic conditions?  Of course.  But the path isn't impossible.  It's not even improbable.  It's just difficult.

Once you "make it", you go back to your neighborhoods and help others get out of their condition.  That's one of the big issues.  Most people who make it out of the ghetto don't go back (understandably).   You have to fight off that selfish instinct...  go back and help.  If you're lucky enough to have bricks that you can lay, you should lay them even if it's inconvenient.

Spoken like a true white person who will never know the actual experiences and circumstances in underprivileged neighborhoods.

Make yourself untouchable? as Kanye said, "even if you're in a Benz you're still a nigga"

Even still the system in America is build in such a way that only a few blacks per generation will make it out the hood and become "untouchable" or whatever the hell you mean. So what about the rest??? Let them continue pushing drugs and be killed?

Point is, it's not a question of making out of the hood. The problem is the structure of systemic racism.

[LeVersacci]

The man is middle east/north african which makes it even more hilarious.

[M99]

Jesus, did I walk into an old white grandpa giving his take on the situation? "do it the right way, get education, dont be a thug" BS.

Its like that Thanksgiving scene in Knives Out

[El Gunner]

Lmao exactly
Now you just gave me an itch to watch Knives Out again. Love it so much

[M99]

The photos on my twitter are the sign of fun that was had in Atlanta last night. I wasnt able to get up to lenox square where a few stores were hit up but if we go again tonight I'll be sure to see if I can get a copy of Animal crossing.

I did enjoy the feeling around hitting the college football hall of fame. Nothing more disgusting, in the city of Dr.King and the civil rights movement, than a monument to the modern day slave trade of College football. Even when the glass was broken and kids were going in to get stuff I found myself weary at the thought of getting anything from such a disgusting establishment.

Still waiting on Trump and his shooters ...sure called his bitch ass bluff.

Imagine trying to use this as an excuse to get a free copy of Animal Crossing. Wow.

This though...

Just pathetic.

[Freeza]

Also these racist pieces of shit using MLK quotes and saying there should be peaceful protests...

Are we acting like the Selma Montgomery march was peaceful lol. They're basically saying "stop fighting back so the police can beat up on you peace"

And they're acting like MLK wasn't assassinated by the law.

[Young Kaz]

The photos on my twitter are the sign of fun that was had in Atlanta last night. I wasnt able to get up to lenox square where a few stores were hit up but if we go again tonight I'll be sure to see if I can get a copy of Animal crossing.

I did enjoy the feeling around hitting the college football hall of fame. Nothing more disgusting, in the city of Dr.King and the civil rights movement, than a monument to the modern day slave trade of College football. Even when the glass was broken and kids were going in to get stuff I found myself weary at the thought of getting anything from such a disgusting establishment.

Still waiting on Trump and his shooters ...sure called his bitch ass bluff.

Imagine trying to use this as an excuse to get a free copy of Animal Crossing. Wow.

This though...

Just pathetic.

Wallahi,M99 Believe me. If I didnt know, in my heart, that the big homie George Floyd would want me to have a copy of Animal Crossing I'd let it go within a second....but we do what we must do.

The protests are there to produce justice.
The liberation of commodities is interest.

You pay your credit card bills on time, and you dont have to pay interest. They train their dogs better, and they dont have to pay interest.

[Pedram]

Poor people have been looted for years. They're only taking back what's rightly theirs

This, looting the ill-gotten gains of the bourgeoisie is good actually and this petty theft stuff are nothing compared to the crimes of the white population against blacks.

Shut the fuck up, you have no defense until you've paid full reparation for centuries of slavery and the genocide against humanity.

[El Gunner]

Also these racist pieces of shit using MLK quotes and saying there should be peaceful protests...

Are we acting like the Selma Montgomery march was peaceful lol. They're basically saying "stop fighting back so the police can beat up on you peace"

And they're acting like MLK wasn't assassinated by the law.

Just another way of trying to control black bodies

[BarrileteCosmico]

Poor people have been looted for years. They're only taking back what's rightly theirs

This, looting the ill-gotten gains of the bourgeoisie is good actually and this petty theft stuff are nothing compared to the crimes of the white population against blacks.

Shut the fuck up, you have no defense until you've paid full reparation for centuries of slavery and the genocide against humanity.

Tell me about how setting on fire random cars and small businesses helps anyone, or setting fire to the news networks whose black reporter got arrested for covering these protests.

If you want to set anything on fire, choose the police station, the court rooms that accomplish nothing, etc. It doesn't need to be peaceful, just smarter.

The officer got arrested, so perhaps you could argue that it's working. Could be true. But it's also true that the media is now talking about the violence rather than the crime, so the message is getting diluted.

[El Gunner]

But we all know the violence is because of the crime BC. We don't care what the news says anymore, they just push their agendas we all know that by now

Those businesses were built on white capitalism so the target is the same.

[BarrileteCosmico]

Half the small businesses in the Atlanta metro area are black owned. I don't know if that's representative of the businesses that actually got hit or not but it doesn't strike me as a particularly good way to achieve your goals.

Again, it doesn't need to be peaceful, but violence is only effective if used in a targeted and measured manner.

[Young Kaz]

Half the small businesses in the Atlanta metro area are black owned. I don't know if that's representative of the businesses that actually got hit or not but it doesn't strike me as a particularly good way to achieve your goals.

Again, it doesn't need to be peaceful, but violence is only effective if used in a targeted and measured manner.

The stores in Atlanta that were hit were almost all white and Persian owned. Black wealth is concentrated near the westend and south towards the airport. The CNN center and later Lenox Square/Phipps plaza are in the middle of downtown(overwhelmingly white ownership) and north(overwhelmingly white ownership).

Black businesses here are mostly in Areas where there is nothing people wanted to liberate.

[M99]

[Babun]

As far as I see and I'm not familiar with the American gun culture/second amendment it's the chicken or egg first problem. People are legally entitled to carry guns so there're more guns and violence involving guns. The police has to anticipate a gun at all times which results in uber hard arrests. After the 11th september, lots of laws infriging private life were passed through for the "greater good". As the result, USA is a defacto police state. The police has got too much rights but they are also in permanent danger of being shot out of the blue.
I regard the racial abuse/shootings as a subset of the actual problem which is guns and a defacto police state. I don't think violence is the way to prevent violence. Most of the time, it does the opposite. Intead of protests against racial discrimination only, I'd like more people to protest and ask for less of a police state/less guns for the real greater good. The looting and destruction part reminds me of the second part of the film "contagion". I think poor people are frustrated in multiple ways.

[CBarca]

Can someone fact check me here? IIRC Arbery's murderers were arrested without violent protest no?

This isn't me condemning or supporting riots, but it's pretty reductionist to assume "officer was arrested so the violence worked", when we just saw peaceful protest result in a similar arrest.

[Myesyats]

This, looting the ill-gotten gains of the bourgeoisie is good actually and this petty theft stuff are nothing compared to the crimes of the white population against blacks.

Shut the fuck up, you have no defense until you've paid full reparation for centuries of slavery and the genocide against humanity.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_slave_trade

Like the Arabs and Asians in general didn't practice slavery. Newsflash, I guess.

[Myesyats]

This is ridiculous.

[FennecFox7]

I can understand rioting to some extent in such an emotionally charged environment. Happens everywhere... but the looting?  Not even a little bit.

The destruction and/or theft of another person's personal property is just stupid. I had the same problem with many of the strikes in France. For example, farmers would pour eggs and milk on the freeways when there are so many people needing food in the world when they were protesting some French government policy.

You discount your message this way... even if the message/cause is completely legit.

Yup. Protests? 100% support. Attacking small businesses because of this and stealing shit? absolute No from me. You need to go to school, get superior social status, and no one will mess with you. Look at the Jews in America.. there’s a reason no one fucks with them

Are you listening to yourself?? Not everyone is the position to go get that supposed "superior social status" you're talking about

You and Sports might as well call those black folk "THUGS" while you're at it

Community college is 300$ a semester here in the US. Nursing school and certain degrees and trades such as being an electrician are dirt cheap. Sorry, you’re a lazy person if you can’t make it in the US unless you have a mental issue.

Live in a piece of shit home where mom beats dad? Go get a job and move out. Hell, deal drugs if that gets you out of your situation and it pays for the bills and school.

Burning innocent peoples businesses and destroying peoples livelihoods is not acceptable. That’s just gonna make people hate your cause even more.

[Pedram]

This, looting the ill-gotten gains of the bourgeoisie is good actually and this petty theft stuff are nothing compared to the crimes of the white population against blacks.

Shut the fuck up, you have no defense until you've paid full reparation for centuries of slavery and the genocide against humanity.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_slave_trade

Like the Arabs and Asians in general didn't practice slavery. Newsflash, I guess.

I'm not denying the fact that slavery used to exist in pretty much every part of the world at some point in history so i'm not sure what your point is, are you trying to say it's ok because everyone else did it too?

[FennecFox7]

I don’t see what my race has anything to do with racism against blacks. You’d think I know a thing or two about racism considering I have plenty of family who have experienced it. In Europe, especially France, you can have all the credentials you need, if you’re Arab you won’t get a second look into a well paying job or real estate. Just ask sports.

In the USA, my family came with dirt and pennies in their pocket and became successful. I’m so tired of people talking crap about this country, yes we have our problems but it could be much worse. People in America are spoiled and have never lived in a dictatorship like Algeria or Syria.


And calling me a racist is just ridiculous, when did I ever say all blacks are thugs?

[Babun]

This, looting the ill-gotten gains of the bourgeoisie is good actually and this petty theft stuff are nothing compared to the crimes of the white population against blacks.

Shut the fuck up, you have no defense until you've paid full reparation for centuries of slavery and the genocide against humanity.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_slave_trade

Like the Arabs and Asians in general didn't practice slavery. Newsflash, I guess.

Pedram is Iranian as far as I know. Cyrus the Great abolished slavery in 539 B.C. freeing Jews in the process as well. More info under:
https://www.humanrights.com/what-are-human-rights/brief-history/
He also established freedom of religion, lack of discrimination. Muslim invaders changed the later two but slavery itself never came back to Iran. As far as arabs go, Egyptians, Syrians and Iraki people aren't the classical arabs from the Arabian peninsula, they didn't practice slavery after old Persia fell. The real arabs practice slavery to this day. The most notorious known salve traders in history were the Spartans from Sparta. Each of them possessed 20 slaves in average. From that point of view, the film 300 looked really ridiculious to me and showed how ignorant the author was of the real history

The abolishment of slavery is pretty recent in the USA. Racial discrimination existed some decades ago, there. The USA are in the transition period right now so the issue is being overpronounced. Economical decline isn't helping the assertion of equal rights to every citizen. The poor are getting poorer and the rich richer. Integration of the minorities into the main part of society suffers for that reason. African Americans need more educated representatives to defend their rights. To do that, they need equal access to education and jobs as the other more established communities do but the current US discriminates the poor the most. They just happen to be some of the poorest out of the minorities, for after the abolishment of slavery they didn't have money or real estates so they were paid little money for physical labor.
Violence isn't the way 100%. The goal should be to erode racial differences when it comes to access to the citizen rights and resources for the living. Violent riots achieve exaclty the opposite.

[M99]

What the hell does Pedram's nationality/ethnicity have to do with the point he's making?

Why do you all have to get so defensive and do classic whataboutism when these issues are bought up? So fragile.

[El Gunner]

This, looting the ill-gotten gains of the bourgeoisie is good actually and this petty theft stuff are nothing compared to the crimes of the white population against blacks.

Shut the fuck up, you have no defense until you've paid full reparation for centuries of slavery and the genocide against humanity.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_slave_trade

Like the Arabs and Asians in general didn't practice slavery. Newsflash, I guess.

Pedram is Iranian as far as I know. Cyrus the Great abolished slavery in 539 B.C. freeing Jews in the process as well. More info under:
https://www.humanrights.com/what-are-human-rights/brief-history/
He also established freedom of religion, lack of discrimination. Muslim invaders changed the later two but slavery itself never came back to Iran. As far as arabs go, Egyptians, Syrians and Iraki people aren't the classical arabs from the Arabian peninsula, they didn't practice slavery after old Persia fell. The real arabs practice slavery to this day. The most notorious known salve traders in history were the Spartans from Sparta. Each of them possessed 20 slaves in average. From that point of view, the film 300 looked really ridiculious to me and showed how ignorant the author was of the real history

The abolishment of slavery is pretty recent in the USA. Racial discrimination existed some decades ago, there. The USA are in the transition period right now so the issue is being overpronounced. Economical decline isn't helping the assertion of equal rights to every citizen. The poor are getting poorer and the rich richer. Integration of the minorities into the main part of society suffers for that reason. African Americans need more educated representatives to defend their rights. To do that, they need equal access to education and jobs as the other more established communities do but the current US discriminates the poor the most. They just happen to be some of the poorest out of the minorities, for after the abolishment of slavery they didn't have money or real estates so they were paid little money for physical labor.
Violence isn't the way 100%. The goal should be to erode racial differences when it comes to access to the citizen rights and resources for the living. Violent riots achieve exaclty the opposite.

And you think that actively ongoing system in America is ever going to change to make it inclusive for all?

You just have to burn that shit to the ground, and inevitably kill the rich, that's the only way change comes about.

[The Demon of Carthage]

The frustration and anger are totally understandable, and it's being felt by people all over the world, not just Americans. We watched a police officer murder a black man in broad daylight. How can you not get angry?!

But I agree with sports and Fennec. Violence, especially against innocent people, doesn't solve anything. In fact, it does the exact opposite, which is to give the real racists a reason to discount the whole thing and shift the focus to another thing entirely. Just look at how, in just a matter of hours, the main talking point changed almost surreptitiously from the murder of a man by a police officer to a side story of people burning and vandalizing cars and businesses.

And it doesn't matter how you spin it, burning or looting the private properties of people who had nothing to do with the murder and who most likely support your cause as well is just plain wrong.

I understand that minorities, especially black people, are so angry right now. I have lost count how many times I read about a black person getting murdered in cold blood by the police or some redneck. So in a way, I can understand why they are behaving the way they are behaving right now. A human being can only take so much injustice before reaching their boiling point, and black people have been on the wrong end of it for centuries. So yeah, I totally get it.

But violence, especially against people who had nothing to do with the murder or the systematic racism they are suffering from, won't solve a thing, and will instead do the exact opposite by casting a shadow over the entire movement.

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