Re: The Racism Thread

[Unique]

I have recently come aware of some languages by so called anti-raciest activists and those who have adopted such languages. The term "People of Color" or "women of color" for example. I don't know when did these type of languages by those who believe they are fighting racism come about, but i find it as an issue. The reason is raciest for a long time have used similar languages, especially old time raciest who have labeled non white people as "colored people." So knowing that it doesn't make sense to use similar tactics that are meant to divide and group people.

If the goal is to fight racism and judge people on a individual basis, then it is probably not a good idea uniformly group people as they are some kinda homogenous group.

I think using People of Color is a way to make that tent of races historically oppressed by whites more unified. I can see how that can be construed as a lazier way to simply lump brown, black, red and yellow people together, but I think that's a matter of interpretation and semantics. Some will consider it lazy, others will consider it inclusive. I'm in the latter camp.

The issue is this frames it more of a tribal warfare than actually fighting racism. While yes historically in the US whites have been the biggest culprit of racism, but that does not also excludes how early white immigrants were raciest toward newer whites immigrants that came to America.

Secondly this framing is very divisive rather than uniting everyone against a common evil that plagues our society. Framing racism as whites vs non white is a very bad idea in attempting to create a fair society, you are not going to win as many people over when you attack and label raciest by their skin color. Racism does not depend on skin color, racism can come from many different angle and i can point many around the world that does not include white. Even on this forum for example, i have read enough of Young Kaz posts to know he is no less bigoted than Unique for example. In this whites vs POC framing Kaz wouldn't be considered a raciest, but that is a tough sell for me.

Also this framing also welcomes a lot of bad faith accusations of racism, for some reason in the political landscape conservatives have framed themselves as a champion of fighting anti-Semitism.

why do you call me bigoted the only people I said I hated was Muslims and tbf they don't like me either. When I said we should stop the free movement of people it's not because I dislike people. It was down to the fact that the country can't cope with it.

[BarrileteCosmico]

why do you call me bigoted the only people I said I hated was Muslims and tbf they don't like me either.

uhhh... do you really not see what you're doing here?

[Unique]

why do you call me bigoted the only people I said I hated was Muslims and tbf they don't like me either.

uhhh... do you really not see what you're doing here?

yes. I'm pointing out that the only people I have said I don't like on this forum were Muslims and I got banned for that. I have not said I dislike anyone else and when people call me racist and say I hate this person and that person because of my opinions on immigration it's just not true. I just just think we don't need so much immigration but I don't hate the people that want to come here. If people say something about me and it's true I will hold me hands up to it. But most of the stuff people say about me is just not true

[M99]

You keep going on about anti semitism but you really don't see how you are bigoted with that statement?

And you are not a race or religion, people don't like you because you are an ignorant, bigoted racist.

[Unique]

You keep going on about anti semitism but you really don't see how you are bigoted with that statement?

And you are not a race or religion, people don't like you because you are an ignorant, bigoted racist.

thats cool. people are free to hate me as much as they like and thats how it should be. and tbh i would like to tell you 100% exactly what i think about you but the laws in this country and the rules of this forum mean i would get a life time ban and could face criminal charges so i will keep my true feelings to myself.

[McLewis]

I have recently come aware of some languages by so called anti-raciest activists and those who have adopted such languages. The term "People of Color" or "women of color" for example. I don't know when did these type of languages by those who believe they are fighting racism come about, but i find it as an issue. The reason is raciest for a long time have used similar languages, especially old time raciest who have labeled non white people as "colored people." So knowing that it doesn't make sense to use similar tactics that are meant to divide and group people.

If the goal is to fight racism and judge people on a individual basis, then it is probably not a good idea uniformly group people as they are some kinda homogenous group.

I think using People of Color is a way to make that tent of races historically oppressed by whites more unified. I can see how that can be construed as a lazier way to simply lump brown, black, red and yellow people together, but I think that's a matter of interpretation and semantics. Some will consider it lazy, others will consider it inclusive. I'm in the latter camp.

The issue is this frames it more of a tribal warfare than actually fighting racism. While yes historically in the US whites have been the biggest culprit of racism, but that does not also excludes how early white immigrants were raciest toward newer whites immigrants that came to America.

Secondly this framing is very divisive rather than uniting everyone against a common evil that plagues our society. Framing racism as whites vs non white is a very bad idea in attempting to create a fair society, you are not going to win as many people over when you attack and label raciest by their skin color. Racism does not depend on skin color, racism can come from many different angle and i can point many around the world that does not include white. Even on this forum for example, i have read enough of Young Kaz posts to know he is no less bigoted than Unique for example. In this whites vs POC framing Kaz wouldn't be considered a raciest, but that is a tough sell for me.

Also this framing also welcomes a lot of bad faith accusations of racism, for some reason in the political landscape conservatives have framed themselves as a champion of fighting anti-Semitism.

I'll take your response in parts:

The issue is this frames it more of a tribal warfare than actually fighting racism. While yes historically in the US whites have been the biggest culprit of racism, but that does not also excludes how early white immigrants were raciest toward newer whites immigrants that came to America.

I gather you're referring to the first Irish immigrants that came due to the Potato Famine and Italian immigrants that arrived sporadically through out the late 1800s and early 1900s. They were not discriminated against because of their skin color, but because they were born elsewhere and were seen as culturally inferior to native-born white Americans. It was Nativism vs Immigration, not at all dissimilar to what we're seeing today. However, here's what moves this into the realm of racism: While Americans of WASP heritage discriminated against the Irish and the Italians, who did they, in turn, discriminate against? Brown, black, red and yellow people. They simply joined in on what the nativist WASPs were already doing in order to take the discrimination heat off of them by deflecting onto people who had no hope of being able to do the same due to their clear physical difference (skin color). So the killings and lynchings of non-white Americans throughout that time period and going into the Civil rights era was bitterly tribalistic. The term "Person of color", to me at least, comes as an almost organic defense mechanism to that. You call it tribal warfare, whereas I think of it as safety in numbers.

Secondly this framing is very divisive rather than uniting everyone against a common evil that plagues our society. Framing racism as whites vs non white is a very bad idea in attempting to create a fair society, you are not going to win as many people over when you attack and label raciest by their skin color. Racism does not depend on skin color, racism can come from many different angle and i can point many around the world that does not include white. Even on this forum for example, i have read enough of Young Kaz posts to know he is no less bigoted than Unique for example. In this whites vs POC framing Kaz wouldn't be considered a raciest, but that is a tough sell for me.

I don't know your ethnicity and/or cultural background, but I know this: Those who consider the framing of racism in terms of white vs non-white to be a poor framing have likely never experienced the racism that the event itself establishes in exactly that framing. This pseudo-philosophical stance is based in theory and academia, but not in reality. Among the definitive factors of the term "race" is shared physical qualities. The most dominant of these physical qualities in society? Skin color. So I disagree categorically with your charge that racism does not depend on skin color. There are centuries of evidence to the contrary. What I will agree with you on is that skin color is not the only factor that defines. It is merely the dominant one.

Unlike racism, bigotry is not based in ethnic or cultural differences. It's merely an intolerance of opinions that differ from our own. It just so happens that an intolerance of a minority with physical qualities are different from that of the majority (here in the US that's skin color) results in not only racism, but bigotry as well. This intersection has resulted in both terms being interchanged so much that they've become synonyms for each other when in fact their definitions are quite different.

So with all that said, it should be clear now that a POC can also be as bigoted (even more sometimes) as a white person. Many actively are, whether they realize it, accept it or don't. POC can also be racist and some actively are. None of these terms are mutually exclusive.

Also this framing also welcomes a lot of bad faith accusations of racism, for some reason in the political landscape conservatives have framed themselves as a champion of fighting anti-Semitism.

People are quick to forget that it was conservatives who kept America out of both WWI and WWII due to their tendency to be isolationist. If you look at newspapers from the time, there were conservatives in this country that not only didn't believe what the Nazis were doing to Jews, but actively dismissed it as propaganda and fake news, designed to get America to break its neutrality and enter the war. Only a direct attack, such as Pearl Harbor, could've done that and we all know what happened next. Conservatives have over-corrected their mistakes following WWII and the establishment of Israel and I believe that to be down to a collective regret for not believing what they were hearing when news of the concentration camps filtered into our media during the war. They see the protection of Israel and Jewish people in general to be almost a personal form of atonement. Mind you, this is all speculation on my part and is largely based on historical observation from books and articles that I've read. Take it as you will. Personally, I believe their championing extends a lot more to Israel and native Israeli Jews than it does to American Jews with roots in the country that go back generations.

[sportsczy]

Italy is so racist

tbf every racist italian i know is at least 50 years old, haven't met many young people that say racist things

although the sample size for the test skews young so who knows

Agreed. Although I had to explain to this Italian kid recently that being Jewish doesn't mean you're from Israel and it's a religion, not a race.

But i have to do stuff like that more often than i'd like and it's not clustered to groups of people... there's ignorance everywhere.

Btw Unique... when you say "i don't like Muslims", that's a lot of people. How do you know you don't like them all? or even most? Do you know them personally?

[Unique]

Italy is so racist

tbf every racist italian i know is at least 50 years old, haven't met many young people that say racist things

although the sample size for the test skews young so who knows

Agreed. Although I had to explain to this Italian kid recently that being Jewish doesn't mean you're from Israel and it's a religion, not a race.

But i have to do stuff like that more often than i'd like and it's not clustered to groups of people... there's ignorance everywhere.

Btw Unique... when you say "i don't like Muslims", that's a lot of people. How do you know you don't like them all? or even most? Do you know them personally?

there is no point going over this again its been done to death and it only leads to arguments and the only reason i brought it up again was to point out that i have not been racist to everyone and anyone that are not white and british like some people like to aim at me.

[M99]

You keep going on about anti semitism but you really don't see how you are bigoted with that statement?

And you are not a race or religion, people don't like you because you are an ignorant, bigoted racist.

thats cool. people are free to hate me as much as they like and thats how it should be. and tbh i would like to tell you 100% exactly what i think about you but the laws in this country and the rules of this forum mean i would get a life time ban and could face criminal charges so i will keep my true feelings to myself.

What do you think of me? And why, because I am Muslim?

[Nishankly]

I think its more for Unique about Muslims who follow the Quran to the literature compared to Christians. Islamist extremists if im not wrong, get their ideas from the interpretation of the Quran. Please correct me if I am wrong.

Christians similar to that are anti-abortion, pro flat earth etc.

They are just less wild, which is something Islam will get to, they just started later.

[BarrileteCosmico]

why do you call me bigoted the only people I said I hated was Muslims and tbf they don't like me either.

uhhh... do you really not see what you're doing here?

yes. I'm pointing out that the only people I have said I don't like on this forum were Muslims and I got banned for that. I have not said I dislike anyone else and when people call me racist and say I hate this person and that person because of my opinions on immigration it's just not true. I just just think we don't need so much immigration but I don't hate the people that want to come here. If people say something about me and it's true I will hold me hands up to it. But most of the stuff people say about me is just not true

ignore the immigration side of things as I wasn't talking about that

let's just talk about how you said

"I'm not bigoted"

immediately followed by

"I don't like Muslims"

how do you see yourself as not a bigot while disliking Muslims at the same time?

[Unique]

I think its more for Unique about Muslims who follow the Quran to the literature compared to Christians. Islamist extremists if im not wrong, get their ideas from the interpretation of the Quran. Please correct me if I am wrong.

Christians similar to that are anti-abortion, pro flat earth etc.

They are just less wild, which is something Islam will get to, they just started later.

some of that is true.

[Unique]

uhhh... do you really not see what you're doing here?

yes. I'm pointing out that the only people I have said I don't like on this forum were Muslims and I got banned for that. I have not said I dislike anyone else and when people call me racist and say I hate this person and that person because of my opinions on immigration it's just not true. I just just think we don't need so much immigration but I don't hate the people that want to come here. If people say something about me and it's true I will hold me hands up to it. But most of the stuff people say about me is just not true

ignore the immigration side of things as I wasn't talking about that

let's just talk about how you said

"I'm not bigoted"

immediately followed by

"I don't like Muslims"

how do you see yourself as not a bigot while disliking Muslims at the same time?

i should have said islam. i was banned for saying i didnt like islam.

[Nishankly]

I think its more for Unique about Muslims who follow the Quran to the literature compared to Christians. Islamist extremists if im not wrong, get their ideas from the interpretation of the Quran. Please correct me if I am wrong.

Christians similar to that are anti-abortion, pro flat earth etc.

They are just less wild, which is something Islam will get to, they just started later.

some of that is true.

Assuming you can articulate without being banned, it'll be interesting if you think otherwise, since this is the most extremist view of Islam which is still humane.

I am an agnostic atheist so I don't believe in religions imposing themselves but I do agree that every faith can follow their preach, something in which I don't see how Islam is any different from any others, other than the time period. Especially when Christianity among other religions enjoyed its fare share of killing, forcing (The first two exclude Jainism, Sikhism, Buddhism and Hinduism), preaching and converting on this planet.

[Unique]

I think its more for Unique about Muslims who follow the Quran to the literature compared to Christians. Islamist extremists if im not wrong, get their ideas from the interpretation of the Quran. Please correct me if I am wrong.

Christians similar to that are anti-abortion, pro flat earth etc.

They are just less wild, which is something Islam will get to, they just started later.

some of that is true.

Assuming you can articulate without being banned, it'll be interesting if you think otherwise, since this is the most extremist view of Islam which is still humane.

I am an agnostic atheist so I don't believe in religions imposing themselves but I do agree that every faith can follow their preach, something in which I don't see how Islam is any different from any others, other than the time period. Especially when Christianity among other religions enjoyed its fare share of killing, forcing (The first two exclude Jainism, Sikhism, Buddhism and Hinduism), preaching and converting on this planet.

mate to give you my true feelings on this subject i would have to talk to you on PM and rely on you to keep what we say privet. if you really want to know what i think and you have the time let me know and i would love to have a chat with you bro. that goes for anyone by the way. i understand that you cant say some things on the forum for obvious reasons but in PM you can say what you like and im happy to answer any questions.

[Nishankly]

Now you know my Twitter.

[Unique]

Now you know my Twitter.

dont worry i wont stalk you

[McLewis]

Maxwell Johnson and his 12-year-old granddaughter were handcuffed in front of a Bank of Montreal in Vancouver.
They went there to open a bank account so he could transfer money to her when she was on the road for basketball games. https://t.co/z9oe8K6KKW @AngelaSterritt

— CBC News (@CBCNews) January 9, 2020

Tons of stories like this here in the US and I know Canada aren't immune to this type of behavior from their banks and police, but the real takeaway from this is the term "commercial racial profiling", which I believe is a very real thing.

Hopefully this guy ends up with a lot more than 30K in his bank account when he's done with that bank.

[Vibe]

Harvard study on which portion of white europeans associate blacks with negative concepts:



https://www.sheffield.ac.uk/faculty/science/news/race-map-1.700171

It's striking to me that even the lowest at 29% is damn high

Am I seeing this wrong or is Serbia the least racist of all

[Vibe]

This is probably because we have the coolest minority - the Gyppos.

[Thimmy]

Do you mean gypsies?

[Vibe]

Yes. I think I wrote about it once, but Gypsies are the best.

All they care about is bringing their sofa out on the street with their shirts off, blast Gypsy music from their house and set a little barbecue below the nearest tree and hang out.

They cause no problems. They'll just occasionally take your trash, pick what they need and GTFO. There's one gypsy lady who picks trash from my dumpster, and she comes in a VW Golf

You can call them whatever, they don't fucking care one bit. They do their thing and that's it.

Respect.

One more thing - they are BIG on family. I work at the Infectious and Tropical diseases department, and we allow no visits. Sometimes, when it's a child we allow one parent to come in for 5 minutes. Most people accept this, but not the Gyppos.

They ring the bell, and when I come down there's 25 of them. Then I explain for 15 minutes why it is the best for the patient who'se immune system is weakened not to have visits, they slowly turn around and leave while giving me looks.

Then 10 minutes later they ring the bell and another 25 of them arrive.

[Hapless_Hans]

Harvard study on which portion of white europeans associate blacks with negative concepts:



https://www.sheffield.ac.uk/faculty/science/news/race-map-1.700171

It's striking to me that even the lowest at 29% is damn high

Also puzzling that Serbia and Slovenia are the lowest in midst a sea of mainstream racism

[Nishankly]

Probably because they've never seen one Hans.

I'd like to see where Serbia stands on brown people

[Hapless_Hans]

Probably because they've never seen one Hans.

I'd like to see where Serbia stands on brown people

lmao

anyway, in Germany, contrary to your hypothesis, to me it seems like the less foreigners or people of other ethnicities live in an area, the more xenophobic and racist that area is

[Nishankly]

Probably because they've never seen one Hans.

I'd like to see where Serbia stands on brown people

lmao

anyway, in Germany, contrary to your hypothesis, to me it seems like the less foreigners or people of other ethnicities live in an area, the more xenophobic and racist that area is

Depends on access to information, formation of opinions and preconceived opinions in the country or nations that the country relates to. All three points related at the max. German media would talk about all this a lot, Serbian (would, and that's why they have RW governments, against Gypsies etc) or Slovenian media wouldn't speak about this at all.

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