How can racism be dealt with once and for all?

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Post by Onyx Mon May 05, 2014 4:38 am

1. A person who is racist in any form gets a 5 year prison sentence. Now people can say 'if racism can get 5 years, then surely the sentence length for other offenses should change?' Well no not really. This is an exception because the current consequences are insufficient. When the same happens for any other offense, then they can be changed and ameliorated too depending on the severity.

You could also say the punishment is too harsh, however it'll stop people from doing it in the first place.

2. Install cameras around the stadium which capture what the crowd say and do. This can help to pick out people who are causing disruption. I'm sure there's similar racist incidents around the World that don't get dealt with because they weren't shown on camera.

3. Stop fining the club for what a group of fans do.


The Villarreal fan who was racist last week could face a 3 year prison sentence.

Eight hundred people have gathered to show support for the Villarreal fan who racially taunted Dani Alves by throwing a banana at the Barcelona player.

Dani Alves responds to racist taunt by picking up and eating banana thrown at him, sparking social media campaign

Spanish news service Efe reported on Thursday the gathering in support of David Campayo Lleo, who faces up to three years in prison for racist provocation.

Friends and colleagues of the 26-year-old, who was relieved of his duties with Villarreal’s youth academy and banned from the club for life, led the protest. Efe reported it was not in support of his actions but against “the public media lynching” Campayo Lleo has been subjected to since his action on Sunday at El Madrigal Stadium.

http://sports.nationalpost.com/2014/05/02/hundreds-gather-in-support-of-villarreal-fan-who-threw-banana-at-barcelonas-dani-alves-in-racist-taunt/


Levante midfielder Papakouli Diop says he was racially abused by Atletico Madrid fans during his side's 2-0 win over the league leaders.

Racism in Spanish football has been in the limelight recently after a Villarreal fan threw a banana at Barcelona's Dani Alves during their clash last week, and the Brazilian defender drew praise for his reaction as he picked it up and ate some of it.

And Diop took a similarly light-hearted approach as he says he danced in front of the opposing fans, who made offensive chants towards him during the game.

"I was going to take a corner and some of the Atletico fans started making monkey chants," he told reporters.

"To defuse the situation I started dancing but I didn't insult anyone.

"I have nothing against the Atletico fans because it was only a section who chanted.

"It's a lack of respect you get at all stadiums. It's a provocation. I don't know if you can call it racism but these monkey chants have to stop."

http://www.goal.com/en-gb/news/3277/la-liga/2014/05/04/4795712/diop-racially-abused-during-atletico-clash?ICID=SP


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Post by VendettaRed07 Mon May 05, 2014 5:20 am

I wish we had an answer on how racism can be stopped, no disrespect MT, but some of these are pretty horrible ideas and won't solve the real issue.  

Racism is bred from ignorance and hatred. All throwing people in cages surrounded by other hate filled bigots is make matters worse and cause people to be even more divided then they currently are. That person who gets thrown in jail, I doubt is going to leave when his prison sentence is over being less racist than he was when he got there.

If a person actually attacks or harms someone because of racially based motivations.. Then ok, you have to take some sort of legal actions. But you can't jail people because of their opinions, no matter how shit they are or because of something they said, no matter how hurtful it was. Its counter productive.

Many of these issues come from deeper routed societal conflicts that go beyond what is in FIFA or even the governments power to solve. The best they can do is make it clear that such behavior is not tolerated. And do their best to set a good example. As private establishments, it is in the clubs personal interests to maintain a family friendly, and welcoming atmosphere... And it is within the clubs right to ban people if they are doing things that they believe get in the way of that.. Fifa pressuring clubs to be more strict about their policies of punishing fans that are found guilty in incidents like this is probably a good way to start..but taking away peoples freedoms because they expressed it in a way they didn't like is not the answer.
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Post by guest_07 Mon May 05, 2014 5:27 am

"racism" is like "islamophobia"

it cannot be dealt for once & for all, but we can reduce it to certain amount

that is the nature of human

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Post by Donuts Mon May 05, 2014 5:32 am

I think racism will never be done with, what we can only hope for is more adults to date out of their race and breed for the future generations to make racism a minority and educate more kids.
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Post by Onyx Mon May 05, 2014 5:43 am

Being racist may not exactly be a crime, but it can be classed as harassment, discrimination etc.

There have been people jailed in the past for tweeting something racist, singing etc. Being racist is more than just an opinion. It's a big and unique issue.

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Post by El Chelsea Fuerte Mon May 05, 2014 5:43 am

Yohan Modric wrote:1. A person who is racist in any form gets a 5 year prison sentence. Now people can say 'if racism can get 5 years, then surely the sentence length for other offenses should change?' Well no not really. This is an exception because the current consequences are insufficient. When the same happens for any other offense, then they can be changed and ameliorated too depending on the severity.

You'll have to first define what racism is and what actions count as racist before you think about handing out prison terms. Good luck with that!

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Post by gnrfan Mon May 05, 2014 5:58 am

lol stopping people from saying racist things doesnt stop racism kids. only thing is exposure to different people and seeing that they are decent ppl, and that you might even have something in common
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Post by gnrfan Mon May 05, 2014 5:58 am

btw just curious, how old are you?
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Post by Lupi Mon May 05, 2014 6:12 am

I Think as long as there's Racism outside the stadium there will be inside stadium as well?!
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Post by Forza Mon May 05, 2014 7:18 am

I think that humans are inherently afraid of what they do not understand. Those who are ignorant and disrespectful towards people with a different appearance and culture do not understand that they are being ignorant and disrespectful by discriminating on that basis.
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Post by Nishankly Mon May 05, 2014 7:58 am

Yohan Modric wrote:Being racist may not exactly be a crime, but it can be classed as harassment, discrimination etc.

There have been people jailed in the past for tweeting something racist, singing etc. Being racist is more than just an opinion. It's a big and unique issue.

It's a nature of a person that can even lead to crimes against specific sections, It obviously needs to be countered, The only ways is basically awareness ( which is useless as the person thinks he's superior ) or punishment.

If anyone even feels remotely racist he hasn't been brought up by his parents properly.
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Post by rwo power Mon May 05, 2014 9:24 am

If people who utter racist stuff are generally imprisioned, that would be really expensive for the society, taking money away from education and actually only making the anger at the group that was the perceived cause for the punishment bigger. The only thing you can do is better education from toddler age on

Moreover, if there is such an improportionate punishment, people who don't like certain people could make up accusations as it is extremely hard to prove or disprove at times, thus overcrowding police and courts and taking time away from stuff like murder etc. And frankly, I would prefer to have the prison space for dangerous criminals than for low-IQ people.
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Post by jibers Mon May 05, 2014 10:24 am

It can't be. As long as there are differences between people it will always be there. It's like saying how do you get rid of all discrimination? People need to stop living in fantasy land.
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Post by guest_07 Mon May 05, 2014 11:07 am

if people can convert to Islam, that will be no racism

i mean the true islam, not the suicide bomber lover

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Post by jibers Mon May 05, 2014 11:29 am

guest_07 wrote:if people can convert to Islam, that will be no racism

i mean the true islam, not the suicide bomber lover

What's your end game here fella?
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Post by guest_07 Mon May 05, 2014 11:31 am

what is the meaning of "end game"?

i'm not so good in english

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Post by Le Samourai Mon May 05, 2014 11:53 am

You can prevent certain abuses through law, but, as with all other evolutions of man, the change must be on a larger scale than can be directly achieved by one branch of society.

Racism is a cultural thing, even if you check it at the gates when you enter certain spheres, if it emerges in others. Once your core beliefs are moulded in an antagonistic manner, your.actions will probably follow suit.

Personally, I don't think we should make people pretend not to.be racist, because the biggest PR against racism is the idiots themselves.
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Post by Abramovich Mon May 05, 2014 12:30 pm

Fine them excessively, they will get learn the lesson if they become broke.
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Post by Dante Mon May 05, 2014 1:02 pm

Lupi wrote:I Think as long as there's Racism outside the stadium there will be inside stadium as well?!

Precisely. Racism wasn't born inside a stadium ,as i believe everybody gets. It comes from the society and as long as it exists there , it will exist in the stadium as well. Football as a sport has long ago decided it can actively help the cause against it , simply because football , is just another part of the society and it is it's duty , to fight back the cancer that's called racism.

I think the only real way to fight racism , is education . An educated mind has no time to care or insult once's color of skin or nation. It doesn't matter for said person , from where one comes from. Education isn't only books and college , though. It can be kids watching their favourite players be role models , be friendly and respectfull to each other , from wherever they come from. When that kid has favourite players that could be from anywhere . When someone experiences this kind of behaviour from a young age , it will pass on to him .

I think strict measures must exist , for there are people which are not kids anymore . Frankly , a 40 year old racist will die a racist . But our best chance against racism , is education , hoping one day it will have erased racism from it's foundation , or better , before it even remotely begins.

At the end of the day , football can send a strong message to millions of people in the fight against racism , but that's just about it i'm afraid . Before anything else this is a political and social matter . I know for a certainty that fighting against racism isn't easy . I've never been racist and i always tried to show to racists how ignorant and mistaken they are in this. That they are no better or worse from those who they racially abuse with such righteous cause. And it has happened to me on more than one occasion , that i've been trying to reason with racists without managing anything in the end , sometimes , only to see their hate burning even more inside them.

It's just like cigarette .. the longer you live with it , the better are the chances you will die with it. You just can't deal with stupidity , i'm afraid. Only education can . I suppose things will only get better as the years go by , though certain people can't help themselves and we just have to live with that. Not accept it , no by any means.. but sadly , it won't dissapear tomorrow , doesn't matter how many years prison they could get.
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Post by M99 Mon May 05, 2014 1:55 pm

guest_07 wrote:if people can convert to Islam, that will be no racism

i mean the true islam, not the suicide bomber lover

Um what?
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Post by Zero Mon May 05, 2014 2:17 pm

Dealing with racism "once and for all" is like eradicating all stupid people in the world. Somehow somewhere, a jackass will be born.
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Post by Forza Mon May 05, 2014 2:20 pm

jibers wrote:It can't be. As long as there are differences between people it will always be there. It's like saying how do you get rid of all discrimination? People need to stop living in fantasy land.
I agree that there will always be some racists, no matter how well-educated people are, but...

Discrimination =/= racism.

A brilliant example of this distinction is racial comedy. Sure, the comedian points out differences between different races for a comic effect, but he's not, in doing so, asserting that one race is superior or inferior to another.
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Post by jibers Mon May 05, 2014 2:28 pm

Forza wrote:
jibers wrote:It can't be. As long as there are differences between people it will always be there. It's like saying how do you get rid of all discrimination? People need to stop living in fantasy land.
I agree that there will always be some racists, no matter how well-educated people are, but...

Discrimination =/= racism.

A brilliant example of this distinction is racial comedy. Sure, the comedian points out differences between different races for a comic effect, but he's not, in doing so, asserting that one race is superior or inferior to another.

Racism is a form of discrimination. What is racism? Discriminating against colour of skin? Discrimination against geography? Discrimination against someone else belief? The word racism is so overused now to cover everything! What is racism?
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Post by Forza Mon May 05, 2014 2:34 pm

The criminal law is not a plaything. When lawmakers make something a crime it is not only because it is something that society deems unacceptable and, in many cases, harmful. Racism fits these criteria, but we must keep in mind that criminalisation of a particular conduct should only be done where it is the best option available to society. Isn't there a better way of dealing with this issue than imposing draconian fines? I would point you in the direction of the various Racial Discrimination Acts that already exist in many countries around the world. The fact is that making a law does not necessarily prevent a particular conduct. Indeed, sometimes it encourages that conduct. The archetypal example is prohibition of alcohol. It quite simply, does not work.

I think the far more effective strategy is community education via the public popularisation of racial equality and the public condemnation of racial discrimination. I'm not a huge basketball fan, but was it really the $2.5m fine served on Donald Sterling by the NBA that made you think the NBA had taken the right action? No. Rather, it was the public denouncement of his actions and his immediate disassociation from the NBA that restored people's faith in the administration of the game. It was a clear message saying, that's not cool, that's disgusting, and no matter how much money, power or influence you have or how well your team is doing, you can't get away with that and we won't let you. That is the sort of action that discourages racist attitudes in public.
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Post by Forza Mon May 05, 2014 2:44 pm

jibers wrote:
Forza wrote:
jibers wrote:It can't be. As long as there are differences between people it will always be there. It's like saying how do you get rid of all discrimination? People need to stop living in fantasy land.
I agree that there will always be some racists, no matter how well-educated people are, but...

Discrimination =/= racism.

A brilliant example of this distinction is racial comedy. Sure, the comedian points out differences between different races for a comic effect, but he's not, in doing so, asserting that one race is superior or inferior to another.

Racism is a form of discrimination. What is racism? Discriminating against colour of skin? Discrimination against geography? Discrimination against someone else belief? The word racism is so overused now to cover everything! What is racism?

Look, I think there is a clear difficulty in defining what is a 'race' of people and what constitutes 'discrimination'. I think that is a moral judgement that everyone has to make for themselves. At what point do you feel it is wrong to make a particular type of judgement about a person for a particular reason?

I mean, if I asked for you to give me an instance of racism you would be able to. E.g. 2 candidates for a job interview, candidate A is better than candidate B in terms of qualifications, but you choose candidate B because you generally think that people of candidate A's race are inherently untrustworthy, slack and unreliable. That's racism in my eyes.

I think that the most accepted definition of racism includes the belief that one race is inherently superior or inferior to another. I think that without that, it isn't racism, it's just a comparison.
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