The Witcher TV series

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Post by Freeza Sun Dec 22, 2019 12:04 pm

@Myesyats wrote:Yeah i don't think it breaks the immersiveness that much particularly since it's a fantasy show. Its an ongoing discussion about certain roles and the looks that come with it, race and skin color included. Now, if they cast Tom Hanks as Obama i'd have an issue but in a fantasy setting I don't really care tbh.


It makes sense to have more racial diversity in Fantasy, which has generally been a very white genre imo.

All fantasy is political in its very nature, so I don't know why there shouldn't be politics in it. LOTR had huge amounts of politics. Same with Harry Potter. Same with Star Wars.

I liked how
Spoiler:
Yennefer took Fringilla's spot and how it clearly showed the racism of people from Aedirn. Wouldn't have made sense if Fringilla had looked like Yennefer.

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Post by M99 Sun Dec 22, 2019 12:10 pm

@Thimmy wrote:Are you implying that I’m racist? If so, go fuck yourself.


I'm not, I am genuinely asking if it does since you singled out Vilgefortz but not Yennefer (though you getting so angry and defensive tells a lot). Personally, I don't care at all if the actors play the part well. Yennefer has been amazing, others like Fringilla had too little screen time for me to actually form an opinion.

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Post by Myesyats Sun Dec 22, 2019 12:17 pm

@Freeza wrote:
@Myesyats wrote:Yeah i don't think it breaks the immersiveness that much particularly since it's a fantasy show. Its an ongoing discussion about certain roles and the looks that come with it, race and skin color included. Now, if they cast Tom Hanks as Obama i'd have an issue but in a fantasy setting I don't really care tbh.


It makes sense to have more racial diversity in Fantasy, which has generally been a very white genre imo.

All fantasy is political in its very nature, so I don't know why there shouldn't be politics in it. LOTR had huge amounts of politics. Same with Harry Potter. Same with Star Wars.

I liked how
Spoiler:
Yennefer took Fringilla's spot and how it clearly showed the racism of people from Aedirn. Wouldn't have made sense if Fringilla had looked like Yennefer.

Very good point.

dont read until you've watched ep 3:
You're completely right, that completely encapsulates their racism. Totally wouldnt make sense if Fringilla was white. You just made me realize that. The way King Virfuril looks away from Fingilla at Yen and says you're exactly what I'm looking for was so racially motivated.
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Post by Thimmy Sun Dec 22, 2019 1:04 pm

@M99 wrote:
@Thimmy wrote:Are you implying that I’m racist? If so, go fuck yourself.


I'm not, I am genuinely asking if it does since you singled out Vilgefortz but not Yennefer (though you getting so angry and defensive tells a lot). Personally, I don't care at all if the  actors play the part well. Yennefer has been amazing, others like Fringilla had too little screen time for me to actually form an opinion.



I thought to myself while writing that, that someone would probably read the comment and somehow interpret nothing but racism, and I can’t be bothered to reply to such simple-mindedness. That has nothing to do with my point. I «singled out» Vildefortz because he appeared in the episode I happened to be watching while writing it. I already mentioned that there’s a black person in every group and faction, and that’s okay, in a sense - might as well go all the way, if racial diversity is on the agenda.

I’m not going to summarize all of the characters that don’t fit the book’s descriptions of them. I’m pretty sure you claimed to have read the books, and you clearly don’t mind, so it would be pointless even if I had bothered to do so. Clearly, the three of you don’t mind this, and that’s good for you. I’m not trying to convince you of otherwise. I already said that I enjoy the show, but I do have some issues with it, mostly in regard to it’s interpretations of the books - which is both very good and wildly off the mark at the same time.

As for racial diversity in fantasy, why not? As long as the source material doesn’t suggest a lack thereof. Fringilla Vigo is specifically described as pale, green-eyed, gracious. The racism or discrimination that you guys are referring to, has nothing to do with her skin color. I’m not singling her out, don’t care enough to list all of the characters that appear differently in the show.

Freeza: I never said that there shouldn’t be politics in this show or any other show, for that matter scratch I’m specifically referring to the creator’s personal politics. If you can ignore it, then that’s probably for the best.
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Post by Freeza Sun Dec 22, 2019 1:30 pm

I don’t see a problem with the show rubber inserting her own personal humane beliefs into a fantasy story. Especially when her “personal politics” is that there should be more than one look of humans in the world.

It offers something unique to the story and I think it fits well. It offers something to the race relations in high fantasy that’s rarely seen because most of the popular material is written by white men from a different time.

Best case scenario of someone infusing personal political beliefs and discussion into a story is how Lindelof handled this season of Watchmen where he basically made the best show about race since The Wire. A true masterpiece.
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Post by BarrileteCosmico Sun Dec 22, 2019 4:19 pm

@Thimmy wrote:I can’t help but mind the politics a little bit, despite trying my best not to care. I’m now looking at the tall, particularly handsome and muscular, Vilgefortz, who in the show appears to be a slender, Indian man of average height. I know most people won’t care about such details, but fuck man Laughing


Battle of Sodden Hill:

I personally had more of a problem with Vilgefortz getting owned by Cahir than the fact they made him a slender brown man of average height.

That was immersion breaking, the actor portraying him not so much
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Post by Thimmy Sun Dec 22, 2019 4:41 pm

@BarrileteCosmico wrote:
@Thimmy wrote:I can’t help but mind the politics a little bit, despite trying my best not to care. I’m now looking at the tall, particularly handsome and muscular, Vilgefortz, who in the show appears to be a slender, Indian man of average height. I know most people won’t care about such details, but fuck man Laughing


Battle of Sodden Hill:

I personally had more of a problem with Vilgefortz getting owned by Cahir than the fact they made him a slender brown man of average height.

That was immersion breaking, the actor portraying him not so much


Spoiler:
Yeah, that was really immersion breaking, and quite silly, to be frank. Moreso than the appearance part, admittedly. Can’t help that I have a mental image of some of the key characters, based on how they’re described in the books. When I see that the actors look completely different than how I imagine them, it just makes it difficult for me to view them as the characters they’re supposed to portray, and not just generic hero/villain x.

I still enjoy the show, but I would’ve liked it more without the unnecessary, politically- driven changes. I do think racial diversity in films and TV shows is a good thing, and Hollywood would definitely benefit from some of it, but not when it’s forced onto an established franchise where such changes have no other point than to support a particular, political agenda outside of the actual show.
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Post by BarrileteCosmico Sun Dec 22, 2019 5:29 pm

The thing is, I don't think it felt forced. It felt like an organic part of the show that was always meant to be that way. I get that you read the books and you already have a mental image of some characters, but I don't think it took away from the story at all. It wasn't anything I thought worth mentioning until I saw some comments online. And for the vast majority of viewers who will not have that mental image I can't imagine it will bother them at all.
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Post by M99 Sun Dec 22, 2019 8:05 pm

Finished it. Sorry but I did not love it like you all did. Think a lot of what critics said are true. pls dont flame me

Spoiler:
Pacing overall was quite bad. The different timelines could have been done better. Its not like Westworld where it was hiding a big twist so making the timelines unclear is not something that was necessary. They were not even trying to make it a secret, because they added lines of Calanthe winning her first battle in the first episode and showed a younger Foltest on the third episode.

A lot of things felt rushed. In fact the Geralt parts of most episodes felt rushed. Honestly, there should have been more focus on Geralt's adventures than on Yen and Ciri's backstory. Second episode particularly suffered from it. Sixth episode was also disappointing as hell. The dragon CGI was weird, the shitting knight character was just ridiculous and cheap humor. A lot of boring parts were strewn throughout the season, all of them being from Yen and Ciri's backstory. Disliked the Doppler Mousesack part. A lot of parts were pointless, surely they could have used better ways to deliver exposition or to convey Ciri and Yennefer have been through a lot?

The worst part for me was how flat the ending was. Geralt and Ciri meeting for the first time, and then they hug. Was that scene meant to be emotional because of the 500 times we heard destiny uttered throughout the show? They never met each other, there is no real relationship or attachment between them. I thought the show lacked heart and emotion overall. Borch had his dragon wife die and was protecting his child, but there were zero feelings that I felt watching it.

Cahir was bad...a one note uninteresting boring villain. There are more gripes I have. Think a lot of the dialogue was bad, the heavy handedness with "destiny" was annoying as f, the casting being hit and miss.

For the positives, the casting of the four main characters are inspired. They all are really good at their roles. Henry Cavill totally channels game Geralt, Joey Batey 100% nails Jaskier, and Freya Allan showed with her range in this season alone that she is the perfect Ciri. Yennefer is quite different but the actress did a hell of a job, really fine acting from her.

Fight scenes were great, what we saw of Geralt's various adventures were great, soundtrack was good.

I really hope it improves. Bojack had a meh first season and ended up being one of Netflix's best shows. There is a lot of room for improvement, that is for sure.
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Post by Thimmy Sun Dec 22, 2019 8:24 pm

Thanks for summing up some of the things that weren’t great about the show. I have more gripes, but I think I’d just annoy people on here if I list them all. We’re all honky dory here. Overall, the entertainment value was higher than I had expected it to be.
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Post by M99 Sun Dec 22, 2019 8:54 pm

For anyone confused about the timeline.

timeline chart:
The Witcher TV series  - Page 7 52emycael6641
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Post by Myesyats Sun Dec 22, 2019 10:22 pm

I get criticism related to confusing timelines but I also understand they wanted to introduce the characters in s01 so I'll allow it. But to say its a D&D with multi-million budget is dumb. It should be 90% at least, the audience scored it correctly. Critics can feck off.
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Post by Great Leader Sprucenuce Mon Dec 23, 2019 1:55 am

Finally finished it, can't really complain tbh. The choices for Yen, Ciri and Geralt were inspired.

All 3 were amazing.
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Post by BarrileteCosmico Mon Dec 23, 2019 2:59 am

@M99 wrote:For anyone confused about the timeline.

timeline chart:
The Witcher TV series  - Page 7 52emycael6641
this chart confused me more than the series
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Post by BarrileteCosmico Mon Dec 23, 2019 3:06 am

@M99 wrote:Finished it. Sorry but I did not love it like you all did. Think a lot of what critics said are true. pls dont flame me

Spoiler:
Pacing overall was quite bad. The different timelines could have been done better. Its not like Westworld where it was hiding a big twist so making the timelines unclear is not something that was necessary. They were not even trying to make it a secret, because they added lines of Calanthe winning her first battle in the first episode and showed a younger Foltest on the third episode.

A lot of things felt rushed. In fact the Geralt parts of most episodes felt rushed. Honestly, there should have been more focus on Geralt's adventures than on Yen and Ciri's backstory. Second episode particularly suffered from it. Sixth episode was also disappointing as hell. The dragon CGI was weird, the shitting knight character was just ridiculous and cheap humor. A lot of boring parts were strewn throughout the season, all of them being from Yen and Ciri's backstory. Disliked the Doppler Mousesack part. A lot of parts were pointless, surely they could have used better ways to deliver exposition or to convey Ciri and Yennefer have been through a lot?

The worst part for me was how flat the ending was. Geralt and Ciri meeting for the first time, and then they hug. Was that scene meant to be emotional because of the 500 times we heard destiny uttered throughout the show? They never met each other, there is no real relationship or attachment between them. I thought the show lacked heart and emotion overall. Borch had his dragon wife die and was protecting his child, but there were zero feelings that I felt watching it.

Cahir was bad...a one note uninteresting boring villain. There are more gripes I have. Think a lot of the dialogue was bad, the heavy handedness with "destiny" was annoying as f, the casting being hit and miss.

For the positives, the casting of the four main characters are inspired. They all are really good at their roles. Henry Cavill totally channels game Geralt, Joey Batey 100% nails Jaskier, and Freya Allan showed with her range in this season alone that she is the perfect Ciri. Yennefer is quite different but the actress did a hell of a job, really fine acting from her.

Fight scenes were great, what we saw of Geralt's various adventures were great, soundtrack was good.

I really hope it improves. Bojack had a meh first season and ended up being one of Netflix's best shows. There is a lot of room for improvement, that is for sure.


Spoiler:
I agree about your criticisms re the ending, and by how the episode was titled I expected we were going to get the "you're much more" line rather than that meh reunion.

I can also see how the different timelines got too clever for their own good, but I don't think it spending that much time on Ciri and Yen was a mistake. Had it been the other way around we would be asking "why should we care about these characters? they were never fully developed enough". Setting the base to develop their journeys properly will set the future seasons for success imo.

Agreed "destiny" was completely overused

The green dragon wasn't Borsch's wife btw, just a random dragon that called Borsch to protect her child.
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Post by Myesyats Mon Dec 23, 2019 2:27 pm

Got seriously hooked, on ep 6 right now. Its phenomenal.

ep 6:
The dragon CGI was weird? I dont understand that opinion. I thought both dragons looked great and nothing was off about them.

A lot of the criticism sounds like trying really hard to be nitpicky. But I get that, you can't appeal to 100% of the audience, its impossible.
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Post by Myesyats Mon Dec 23, 2019 3:05 pm

I had to pause and rewind a couple times during ep 6, it was so good. I feel like my life is almost complete.
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Post by Great Leader Sprucenuce Mon Dec 23, 2019 3:48 pm

@BarrileteCosmico wrote:
@M99 wrote:Finished it. Sorry but I did not love it like you all did. Think a lot of what critics said are true. pls dont flame me

Spoiler:
Pacing overall was quite bad. The different timelines could have been done better. Its not like Westworld where it was hiding a big twist so making the timelines unclear is not something that was necessary. They were not even trying to make it a secret, because they added lines of Calanthe winning her first battle in the first episode and showed a younger Foltest on the third episode.

A lot of things felt rushed. In fact the Geralt parts of most episodes felt rushed. Honestly, there should have been more focus on Geralt's adventures than on Yen and Ciri's backstory. Second episode particularly suffered from it. Sixth episode was also disappointing as hell. The dragon CGI was weird, the shitting knight character was just ridiculous and cheap humor. A lot of boring parts were strewn throughout the season, all of them being from Yen and Ciri's backstory. Disliked the Doppler Mousesack part. A lot of parts were pointless, surely they could have used better ways to deliver exposition or to convey Ciri and Yennefer have been through a lot?

The worst part for me was how flat the ending was. Geralt and Ciri meeting for the first time, and then they hug. Was that scene meant to be emotional because of the 500 times we heard destiny uttered throughout the show? They never met each other, there is no real relationship or attachment between them. I thought the show lacked heart and emotion overall. Borch had his dragon wife die and was protecting his child, but there were zero feelings that I felt watching it.

Cahir was bad...a one note uninteresting boring villain. There are more gripes I have. Think a lot of the dialogue was bad, the heavy handedness with "destiny" was annoying as f, the casting being hit and miss.

For the positives, the casting of the four main characters are inspired. They all are really good at their roles. Henry Cavill totally channels game Geralt, Joey Batey 100% nails Jaskier, and Freya Allan showed with her range in this season alone that she is the perfect Ciri. Yennefer is quite different but the actress did a hell of a job, really fine acting from her.

Fight scenes were great, what we saw of Geralt's various adventures were great, soundtrack was good.

I really hope it improves. Bojack had a meh first season and ended up being one of Netflix's best shows. There is a lot of room for improvement, that is for sure.


Spoiler:
I agree about your criticisms re the ending, and by how the episode was titled I expected we were going to get the "you're much more" line rather than that meh reunion.

I can also see how the different timelines got too clever for their own good, but I don't think it spending that much time on Ciri and Yen was a mistake. Had it been the other way around we would be asking "why should we care about these characters? they were never fully developed enough". Setting the base to develop their journeys properly will set the future seasons for success imo.

Agreed "destiny" was completely overused

The green dragon wasn't Borsch's wife btw, just a random dragon that called Borsch to protect her child.


Agree with this entirely.
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Post by M99 Mon Dec 23, 2019 7:26 pm

@Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:
@BarrileteCosmico wrote:
@M99 wrote:Finished it. Sorry but I did not love it like you all did. Think a lot of what critics said are true. pls dont flame me

Spoiler:
Pacing overall was quite bad. The different timelines could have been done better. Its not like Westworld where it was hiding a big twist so making the timelines unclear is not something that was necessary. They were not even trying to make it a secret, because they added lines of Calanthe winning her first battle in the first episode and showed a younger Foltest on the third episode.

A lot of things felt rushed. In fact the Geralt parts of most episodes felt rushed. Honestly, there should have been more focus on Geralt's adventures than on Yen and Ciri's backstory. Second episode particularly suffered from it. Sixth episode was also disappointing as hell. The dragon CGI was weird, the shitting knight character was just ridiculous and cheap humor. A lot of boring parts were strewn throughout the season, all of them being from Yen and Ciri's backstory. Disliked the Doppler Mousesack part. A lot of parts were pointless, surely they could have used better ways to deliver exposition or to convey Ciri and Yennefer have been through a lot?

The worst part for me was how flat the ending was. Geralt and Ciri meeting for the first time, and then they hug. Was that scene meant to be emotional because of the 500 times we heard destiny uttered throughout the show? They never met each other, there is no real relationship or attachment between them. I thought the show lacked heart and emotion overall. Borch had his dragon wife die and was protecting his child, but there were zero feelings that I felt watching it.

Cahir was bad...a one note uninteresting boring villain. There are more gripes I have. Think a lot of the dialogue was bad, the heavy handedness with "destiny" was annoying as f, the casting being hit and miss.

For the positives, the casting of the four main characters are inspired. They all are really good at their roles. Henry Cavill totally channels game Geralt, Joey Batey 100% nails Jaskier, and Freya Allan showed with her range in this season alone that she is the perfect Ciri. Yennefer is quite different but the actress did a hell of a job, really fine acting from her.

Fight scenes were great, what we saw of Geralt's various adventures were great, soundtrack was good.

I really hope it improves. Bojack had a meh first season and ended up being one of Netflix's best shows. There is a lot of room for improvement, that is for sure.


Spoiler:
I agree about your criticisms re the ending, and by how the episode was titled I expected we were going to get the "you're much more" line rather than that meh reunion.

I can also see how the different timelines got too clever for their own good, but I don't think it spending that much time on Ciri and Yen was a mistake. Had it been the other way around we would be asking "why should we care about these characters? they were never fully developed enough". Setting the base to develop their journeys properly will set the future seasons for success imo.

Agreed "destiny" was completely overused

The green dragon wasn't Borsch's wife btw, just a random dragon that called Borsch to protect her child.


Agree with this entirely.


Thing is, I totally get that they needed development. But the majority of Ciri/Yennefer parts just bored me.It may be a necessity but it was not of good enough quality.

@Myesyats wrote:Got seriously hooked, on ep 6 right now. Its phenomenal.

ep 6:
The dragon CGI was weird? I dont understand that opinion. I thought both dragons looked great and nothing was off about them.

A lot of the criticism sounds like trying really hard to be nitpicky. But I get that, you can't appeal to 100% of the audience, its impossible.


Spoiler:
Each to his own, for me the the design of the dragon and the sylvan looked quite poor.

I'm not trying hard to be nitpicky. I'm not combing with a magnifying glass looking for reasons to complain. I want this show to be good as much as anyone else here.
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Post by Thimmy Mon Dec 23, 2019 7:46 pm

I had the same impression, so it’s not just you. It’s not a big deal, but I giggled a little bit when I saw it. Thought it looked a bit tacky.
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Post by Great Leader Sprucenuce Mon Dec 23, 2019 8:19 pm

I liked the Yen backstory stuff tbh, Ciri stuff less so and would have liked different stuff focused on.

Also the CGI for most of the Monsters were bad.

Also to be clear i have quite a lot of issues with the show i just enjoyed enough where i don't think bringing up is all that important.
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Post by Thimmy Mon Dec 23, 2019 8:56 pm

@Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:I liked the Yen backstory stuff tbh, Ciri stuff less so and would have liked different stuff focused on.

Also the CGI for most of the Monsters were bad.

Also to be clear i have quite a lot of issues with the show i just enjoyed enough where i don't think bringing up is all that important.


I agree that some of those issues aren’t substantial enough that they detract too much from the overall entertainment value of the show, but I still think they’re worth pointing out for the sake of discussion.

But yeah, Ciri’s part was quite underwhelming and it disappointed me that they compressed and skipped SO much content from the Forest of Death. I suppose it makes sense considering the short length and possibly time restraints of the first season, but the little story they left her with wasn’t very exciting to watch. Looks like they cut Milva’s introduction from the story entirely, and
Spoiler:
skipped straight to the part where Geralt finds Ciri instead
scratch
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Post by The Demon of Carthage Mon Dec 23, 2019 9:31 pm

I have just wrapped up the first season and I liked it.

I thought HC was a fantastic choice for Geralt. I wish I could say the same for Yennefer.

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Post by Great Leader Sprucenuce Mon Dec 23, 2019 10:11 pm

I think the actress for Yennefer did a fantastic job honestly, my issues and most of them are minor with the show are lore and character changing related.

Rather than they are casting related, at least when it comes to the main cast. I didn't particularly like
Spoiler:
Foltest for example, Cahir and Vilgefortz doesn't seem great either but I'm willing to see where it goes with those two before judging
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Post by Great Leader Sprucenuce Mon Dec 23, 2019 10:15 pm

@Thimmy wrote:
@Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:I liked the Yen backstory stuff tbh, Ciri stuff less so and would have liked different stuff focused on.

Also the CGI for most of the Monsters were bad.

Also to be clear i have quite a lot of issues with the show i just enjoyed enough where i don't think bringing up is all that important.


I agree that some of those issues aren’t substantial enough that they detract too much from the overall entertainment value of the show, but I still think they’re worth pointing out for the sake of discussion.

But yeah, Ciri’s part was quite underwhelming and it disappointed me that they compressed and skipped SO much content from the Forest of Death. I suppose it makes sense considering the short length and possibly time restraints of the first season, but the little story they left her with wasn’t very exciting to watch. Looks like they cut Milva’s introduction from the story entirely, and
Spoiler:
skipped straight to the part where Geralt finds Ciri instead
scratch


Spoiler:
i completely agree, honestly there are parts in the books which are absolutely vital for Ciri and Geralts relationship.

I understand it's a popular part of the short stories but if you have to cut something i would have cut the Borkh stuff way before i cut some of Ciri's back story, specifically the parts which are important for her relationship with Geralt
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Post by Myesyats Mon Dec 23, 2019 10:31 pm

Meh, I think some of the critics don't really watch a lot of shows which generally tend to be very shoddy. You rarely get a true 90%+ show and this is definitely one.
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