GAME OF THRONES - PART 9 - *NO BOOK TALK - READ THE RULES*

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Post by Myesyats Mon Apr 29, 2019 10:03 am

Unless Dany's iron throne in ice vision is yet to fulfill itself and the NK isnt actually finished.

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Post by urbaNRoots Mon Apr 29, 2019 10:15 am

@Myesyats wrote:Kinda disappointed since the NK seemed unbreakable yet Arya managed to jump to him while he was surrounded by his army lmao he must have known she was coming. Maybe he was shook by Bran's presence but still. Again though, all the cash that was spent on CGI for this could surely end world hunger.


Pretty sure he knew she was coming, and let it happen because he is a cocky bastard and expected to kill here there.

Love that „Not today“, „Blue Eyes“, the dagger which was in a Citadel book was given to Arya by Bran — all became incredibly important for the whole Arya arc to make sense.

Speaking of Bran, really hope there‘s more to Bran than we‘re seeing, man just warged some ravens the entire episode and didn‘t do shit to help. I like the fact that the dagger he gave Arya killed the Night King, so I‘m hoping he has seen the future or possible future and is working on making it possible. Would explain his looks/talk with Tyrion/Jaime and other creepy looks.
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Post by rincon Mon Apr 29, 2019 10:31 am

The episode itself was fantastic. So well done. This is exactly how I imagined a war against the dead would look like and how unwinnable it is. I was struggling to understand how it would be possible to win the war, and I guess the answer is that it's not possible.

First when Dany tried to burn him, and then when the NK raised the dead in front of Jon it was clear there is just no chance in a battle.

Arya Proud my #1 coming through. All that sadistic assassin training and foreshadowing coming together.

Melissandre was excellent as well. All her moments were great, the first prayer, the fear during the second one. Finding Arya and finally walking to her death.

Tbh I was hoping the walkers wouldn't end in this episode. I was hoping it would continue until the last one. I had enough of GOT politics and human fights, I was always more interested in the magical angle. I guess I see why they went this way, it's unexpected, it bring GOT back to it's "roots", and is very LOTR.

My guess had been that they lose this battle and somehow fall back to KL. My mate had guessed that Cersei would be the final villain.
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Post by rincon Mon Apr 29, 2019 10:32 am

@urbaNRoots wrote:Speaking of Bran, really hope there‘s more to Bran than we‘re seeing, man just warged some ravens the entire episode and didn‘t do shit to help. I like the fact that the dagger he gave Arya killed the Night King, so I‘m hoping he has seen the future or possible future and is working on making it possible. Would explain his looks/talk with Tyrion/Jaime and other creepy looks.

He isn't a fighter and it was never gonna be a harry potter spell battle. Bran laid out the pieces for this to happen.
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Post by rincon Mon Apr 29, 2019 10:36 am

Berric died ffs. Another one of my favorites. I think Sam should have 10000% died, him or Tormund or Brienne or Jaime. One of the people in the courtyard had to have died there.

Jorah, Berric and specially Theon got perfect send off. Theon became the MVP. His arc and his acting are some of the best in the show.
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Post by M99 Mon Apr 29, 2019 11:01 am

The Dothraki charge at the beginning sums up this episode.

Visually stunning, unbelievable cinematography, was fantastic to look at.

But illogical and dumb.

Ramin Djiwadi is one of the greatest composers of all time in TV or film, hands down. The score was stunning.

Now, other than that, I'll say some stuff later. I feel I need to watch Endgame again to cool off because goddamn a lot of things here absolutely sucked. Especially the White Walkers getting the worst possible story arc.
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Post by M99 Mon Apr 29, 2019 11:48 am

@BarrileteCosmico wrote:I think it's interesting in the post-show talk D&D said "we've known about Arya killing the NK for 3 years" so I feel like this must be what GRRM has in mind too (as he was the one to probably inform them).


Just watched it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZJ1yC3yESLQ

David: For, God, I think it's probably 3 years now or something, we've known that it was going to be Arya who delivers that fatal blow.

Dan: She seemed like the best candidate provided we weren't thinking about her in that moment. One of the great things about having this many people you care about in a sequence together is you can kind of pull people's attention and focus to people they care about a lot like Jon and like Dany, Theon and Bran, not to mention Tyrion and Sansa in the crypts. So you're going all over the place with people who you're desperately worried for and hopefully you forget about the fact that Arya Stark ran out of the castle with the battle drums playing and going towards some purpose, and we don't know what until it happens.

David: We hope to kind of avoid the expected, and Jon Snow has always been the one to be the hero, the one who's been the savior, but it just didn't seem right to us for this moment. We knew it had to be Valyrian Steel to the exact spot where the Child of the Forest put the dragonglass blade to create the Night King, and he is un-created by the Valyrian Steel. At the end of it it's still, it's a victory for the living but at great cost because some of our favorite characters fall along the way.

It sounds like they made it up themselves. For instance Hold The Door they straight up said GRRM told them.

Also you are forgetting the most important thing, the Night King is a show creation.
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Post by BarrileteCosmico Mon Apr 29, 2019 12:14 pm

Hmm the highlighted parts to me just read like they're talking about distracting the viewer, not necessarily about having made that choice on their own.

Having slept on it, I think the episode was a lot of fun as long as you didn't think too hard while watching it, but it has a ridiculous amount of instances that made little sense (ending included). You could nit pick this thing to no end... But it was visually stunning and tense so I can forgive a lot.

On a series-level though the NK's story and the threat of the white walkers seems entirely unsatisfactory. They only made it to winterfell, all the "safe" characters survived (the only surprising death was lyanna mormont), and it just seems like they overall got off pretty easy.
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Post by M99 Mon Apr 29, 2019 12:33 pm

Thats just what's bad. What an anti-climatic end to the White Walkers. They were the first scene of the show and now they are done. Their backstory is they are just mindless drones programmed to kill everything. We know nothing about the Night King other than perhaps he was the first one made? Why were they asleep for thousands of years? Oh did Mance just randomly wake them, thats it? HOW did they fall asleep? If the Night King is the leader and killing him kills everyone what happened last time when the Long Night was said to last a generation? Did Night King just retreat to the North and Wall was created to stop them? Most importantly what the hell was he going to do if he did not get an undead dragon? I don't accept "HE IS A GREENSEER HE KNEW ALL ALONG" that is just a fan theory and nothing in the show gives evidence of this. Most importantly, greenseers CAN ONLY SEE THE PAST not the future. He had no way of knowing the dragon was coming.

How did Arya sneak up on him surrounded by White Walkers and a thousand wights? She just Splinter Celled her way through all of them wtf. Also wtf was Bran up to warging those ravens.

I can't get over the amount of plot armor main cast had. Especially Jaime, Brienne and Sam. Maybe show them surrounded by some Unsullied, Knights Of The Vale, Northmen rather than Sam lying down below 300 wights and Jaime (who is suddenly an elite fighter again) and Brienne fighting 2 v 600. How Jorah went through to Daenerys is a question mark too considering the state of the battle.

And the battle strategy is 10/10. Send of Dothraki charging for no reason other than it looks cool, having trebuchets OUTSIDE the castle IN THE FRONT OF INFANTRY, having fire/oil in castle walls when fire is the one weakness, not having dragons do anything to the wights when they were standing rooted in front of trenches, it was a mess. Looked beautiful the episode (I actually didn't think it was too dark brightness wise like most people are saying) but dear God it made no sense. Last season a wight could not get out of a wooden box but here he have them punch through tombs made of stone.

The White Walkers are dead, and now the heroes have to fight fucking Euron in the endgame. One thing this episode proved is Cersei and Lord Glover are geniuses. They knew they would not be needed in the Battle For Dawn, they were absolutely right. Hats off.
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Post by silver Mon Apr 29, 2019 12:52 pm

I too an dissatisfied with the whole White Walker arc and the lack of explanation about well...everything...7 seasons of buildup for a one episode battle was extremely anti-climatic.

But I knew they were getting destroyed in this episode seeing how there are only 3 episodes left, and it had to be Phantom Menace styles. I guess Arya made the most sense especially with Beric "I've lived 10 lives" saving her.
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Post by rincon Mon Apr 29, 2019 1:01 pm

Ok. Many things are valid criticisms but a lot of that is just trying hard to avoid accepting valid explanations or going unreasonably out of your way to find things.

@M99 wrote:Most importantly what the hell was he going to do if he did not get an undead dragon? I don't accept "HE IS A GREENSEER HE KNEW ALL ALONG" that is just a fan theory and nothing in the show gives evidence of this. Most importantly, greenseers CAN ONLY SEE THE PAST not the future. He had no way of knowing the dragon was coming.


Greensight is literally future sight. We had Jojen and Bran see the future for like 3 seasons/books. Jojen the greenseer saw the future and as such was sent to Winterfell to help Bran in his mission. The whole thing with the winged wolf. He even saw his own death. Everything in the show points to Bran and the NK having greensight., all their actions are carried out as such. Bran tells exactly when they should say and do things, where to be and what to do so that things are in the right place.

@M99 wrote:How did Arya sneak up on him surrounded by White Walkers and a thousand wights? She just Splinter Celled her way through all of them wtf. Also wtf was Bran up to warging those ravens.

She didn't. She sneaked past the white walkers and the NK saw her and caught her midair.

@M99 wrote:
And the battle strategy is 10/10. Send of Dothraki charging for no reason other than it looks cool, having trebuchets OUTSIDE the castle IN THE FRONT OF INFANTRY, having fire/oil in castle walls when fire is the one weakness, not having dragons do anything to the wights when they were standing rooted in front of trenches, it was a mess. Looked beautiful the episode (I actually didn't think it was too dark brightness wise like most people are saying) but dear God it made no sense. Last season a wight could not get out of a wooden box but here he have them punch through tombs made of stone.

Literally that is exactly what they did. The dragons kept sweeping with fire until the NK came at them with the blizzard and Viseryon.
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Post by Firenze Mon Apr 29, 2019 1:07 pm

@M99 wrote:Thats just what's bad. What an anti-climatic end to the White Walkers. They were the first scene of the show and now they are done. Their backstory is they are just mindless drones programmed to kill everything. We know nothing about the Night King other than perhaps he was the first one made? Why were they asleep for thousands of years? Oh did Mance just randomly wake them, thats it? HOW did they fall asleep? If the Night King is the leader and killing him kills everyone what happened last time when the Long Night was said to last a generation? Did Night King just retreat to the North and Wall was created to stop them? Most importantly what the hell was he going to do if he did not get an undead dragon? I don't accept "HE IS A GREENSEER HE KNEW ALL ALONG" that is just a fan theory and nothing in the show gives evidence of this. Most importantly, greenseers CAN ONLY SEE THE PAST not the future. He had no way of knowing the dragon was coming.

How did Arya sneak up on him surrounded by White Walkers and a thousand wights? She just Splinter Celled her way through all of them wtf. Also wtf was Bran up to warging those ravens.

I can't get over the amount of plot armor main cast had. Especially Jaime, Brienne and Sam. Maybe show them surrounded by some Unsullied, Knights Of The Vale, Northmen rather than Sam lying down below 300 wights and Jaime (who is suddenly an elite fighter again) and Brienne fighting 2 v 600. How Jorah went through to Daenerys is a question mark too considering the state of the battle.

And the battle strategy is 10/10. Send of Dothraki charging for no reason other than it looks cool, having trebuchets OUTSIDE the castle IN THE FRONT OF INFANTRY, having fire/oil in castle walls when fire is the one weakness, not having dragons do anything to the wights when they were standing rooted in front of trenches, it was a mess. Looked beautiful the episode (I actually didn't think it was too dark brightness wise like most people are saying) but dear God it made no sense. Last season a wight could not get out of a wooden box but here he have them punch through tombs made of stone.

The White Walkers are dead, and now the heroes have to fight fucking Euron in the endgame. One thing this episode proved is Cersei and Lord Glover are geniuses. They knew they would not be needed in the Battle For Dawn, they were absolutely right. Hats off.

I'm with you on everything here. A lot of people will forgive it, as BC said, because it was visually great. As a pure action episode, it was great. A lot of people will be perfectly happy with this (already had a plebs IRL mention how amazing it was and that they're proud of Arya ffs), but when you actually take a step back and look at it as a whole, it was thoroughly disappointing. So glad I'm not invested into the series very much.
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Post by M99 Mon Apr 29, 2019 1:18 pm

Greensight is literally future sight. We had Jojen and Bran see the future for like 3 seasons/books. Jojen the greenseer saw the future and as such was sent to Winterfell to help Bran in his mission. The whole thing with the winged wolf. He even saw his own death. Everything in the show points to Bran and the NK having greensight., all their actions are carried out as such. Bran tells exactly when they should say and do things, where to be and what to do so that things are in the right place.

They don't directly see the future. They see visions like winged wolf, sea coming to Winterfell. Give me one example of Bran seeing the future. He knew things like Wall breaking, Littlefinger betraying his father, after it happened. He wanted to be placed in the godswood, to lure the Night King there. He still has the GPS on his arm.

Okay, still I'm giving it to you, Night King did see the vision of the dragon. Except there is nothing in the show that suggested Night King knew about Viserion. Its fans who came up with the theory, nothing ever confirmed this so far. If Bran said something like "He knew all along, he was waiting for your dragon" then we can say yeah he knew about the future.

She didn't. She sneaked past the white walkers and the NK saw her and caught her midair.

This is exactly what I meant by Splinter Celled, she just sneaked past them? There were other White Walkers in the godswood, a lot of wights, Winterfell was overrun by wights. But ok she grew up here, knows the castle better than anyone, just like Ramsey's legendary 20 good men who "knew the land better"

Literally that is exactly what they did. The dragons kept sweeping with fire until the NK came at them with the blizzard and Viseryon.

I watched the episode I know what I'm talking about. Dany and Jon were burning wights, then they went for the White Walkers and the blizzard came. They got blinded. Jon landed on Winterfell walls. Dany was lost in the blizzard, she could not see Davos's signal. The Unsullied lighted up the trench and Daenerys could see again. The wights standing rooted in front of the burning trench for a while and then they decided to make a bridge. They were standing there still, dragons did not do anything. Forget dragons just pouring burning oil and lighting them on fire from the walls could wipe out a number of them.
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Post by rincon Mon Apr 29, 2019 1:30 pm

@M99 wrote:
Greensight is literally future sight. We had Jojen and Bran see the future for like 3 seasons/books. Jojen the greenseer saw the future and as such was sent to Winterfell to help Bran in his mission. The whole thing with the winged wolf. He even saw his own death. Everything in the show points to Bran and the NK having greensight., all their actions are carried out as such. Bran tells exactly when they should say and do things, where to be and what to do so that things are in the right place.

They don't directly see the future. They see visions like winged wolf, sea coming to Winterfell. Give me one example of Bran seeing the future. He knew things like Wall breaking, Littlefinger betraying his father, after it happened. He wanted to be placed in the godswood, to lure the Night King there. He still has the GPS on his arm.

Okay, still I'm giving it to you, Night King did see the vision of the dragon. Except there is nothing in the show that suggested Night King knew about Viserion. Its fans who came up with the theory, nothing ever confirmed this so far. If Bran said something like "He knew all along, he was waiting for your dragon" then we can say yeah he knew about the future.

They do see the future. Jojen saw his own death. He was 100% sure of when he was going to die and when wasn't going to. Bran has green dreams often. In this last season he knows exactly when Sam will need to tell Jon about his parentage. He knows of Jaime coming as well and knows that he should be there. Bran has been playing this like someone who knows, which is normal since he is basically the biggest greenseer.

How is there nothing to suggest that NK knew about Viseryon coming? it all points to him knowing and setting up a trap for Dany north of the wall. When the A Team is in that little island the NK could have wiped them out. He just waits looking at them until Dany is coming to act.

The old 3 eyed raven saw the future as well. He tells us, that he has seen what Bran will become, that Bran was supposed to be there before he actually arrived, etc.
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Post by M99 Mon Apr 29, 2019 1:46 pm

The only thing that is there to suggest that NK did know about Viserion is...that it is the only logical explanation of the dumb Beyond The Wall ep? He could have killed the team and Dany still would come because Gendry already relayed the message. The wights started immediately attacking them when they saw the lake was frozen. Nothing suggests they were keeping them alive just for the dragons to come Nothing in the show has shown that its a fact he knew about Viserion coming. It is a fan theory for now like I said.

I accept I could have been wrong about greenseers. Jojen and Bran both see vague visions/dreams not explicit events like they do on the past so this is mainly what I meant. Bran knowing about Jaime does not confirm he saw the future though, he just could have seen him arguing with Cersei and leaving for Winterfell.

Speaking of Bran, what the hell was he doing warging those ravens?
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Post by rincon Mon Apr 29, 2019 1:46 pm

@M99 wrote:
Literally that is exactly what they did. The dragons kept sweeping with fire until the NK came at them with the blizzard and Viseryon.

I watched the episode I know what I'm talking about. Dany and Jon were burning wights, then they went for the White Walkers and the blizzard came. They got blinded. Jon landed on Winterfell walls. Dany was lost in the blizzard, she could not see Davos's signal. The Unsullied lighted up the trench and Daenerys could see again. The wights standing rooted in front of the burning trench for a while and then they decided to make a bridge. They were standing there still, dragons did not do anything. Forget dragons just pouring burning oil and lighting them on fire from the walls could wipe out a number of them.

Watch again then, I have the screen open. The first thing they do after lighting the trenches and stopping the wights is sweep with the dragon. It cuts from Melissandre starting the fires on the trench to show it working, then back to Mel's face, then immediately to Davos and Arya watching the dragon wreck the wights in front of them. After a bit we see Dany again sweeping with the dragon as the wights are trying to cross the trenches. Bran wargs the ravens to fly over, and sees Drogon at it burning the wights. The next we see of Dany is when the NK show up on Viseryon and she is chasing him up to the clouds.
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Post by rincon Mon Apr 29, 2019 1:56 pm

This level of nitpicking about a battle applies to every battle any of us will ever see. No matter which series or which media, books, shows or movies.

It was fantastically done.
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Post by nichabr Mon Apr 29, 2019 2:17 pm

Ar
@M99 wrote:
Greensight is literally future sight. We had Jojen and Bran see the future for like 3 seasons/books. Jojen the greenseer saw the future and as such was sent to Winterfell to help Bran in his mission. The whole thing with the winged wolf. He even saw his own death. Everything in the show points to Bran and the NK having greensight., all their actions are carried out as such. Bran tells exactly when they should say and do things, where to be and what to do so that things are in the right place.

They don't directly see the future. They see visions like winged wolf, sea coming to Winterfell. Give me one example of Bran seeing the future. He knew things like Wall breaking, Littlefinger betraying his father, after it happened. He wanted to be placed in the godswood, to lure the Night King there. He still has the GPS on his arm.

Okay, still I'm giving it to you, Night King did see the vision of the dragon. Except there is nothing in the show that suggested Night King knew about Viserion. Its fans who came up with the theory, nothing ever confirmed this so far. If Bran said something like "He knew all along, he was waiting for your dragon" then we can say yeah he knew about the future.

She didn't. She sneaked past the white walkers and the NK saw her and caught her midair.

This is exactly what I meant by Splinter Celled, she just sneaked past them? There were other White Walkers in the godswood, a lot of wights, Winterfell was overrun by wights. But ok she grew up here, knows the castle better than anyone, just like Ramsey's legendary 20 good men who "knew the land better"

Mellisandre told her what to do when she said "you had brown eyes and greens eyes and now you will have blue"


Literally that is exactly what they did. The dragons kept sweeping with fire until the NK came at them with the blizzard and Viseryon.

I watched the episode I know what I'm talking about. Dany and Jon were burning wights, then they went for the White Walkers and the blizzard came. They got blinded. Jon landed on Winterfell walls. Dany was lost in the blizzard, she could not see Davos's signal. The Unsullied lighted up the trench and Daenerys could see again. The wights standing rooted in front of the burning trench for a while and then they decided to make a bridge. They were standing there still, dragons did not do anything. Forget dragons just pouring burning oil and lighting them on fire from the walls could wipe out a number of them.
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Post by M99 Mon Apr 29, 2019 2:30 pm

I know why Arya went, I knew she would do it when Melisandre said that. Doesn't change how it happened being ridiculous.

"this level of nitpicking" ugh another season with this, I said the battle was visually spectacular. The score at the end nearly bought me to tears. There is still room for criticism. Even Barrett used to say we really need to know more about White Walkers. Beyond disappointed that this is all we know and how it ended.
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Post by rincon Mon Apr 29, 2019 2:33 pm

I agree that there is room for criticism, I said on the first post and didn't debate all of yours. But we have to stick to things are actually open for critique. Greenseers do see the future, and Dany most definitely used Drogon to burn the wights before and after the trenches were lit. Things like these are were in the episode/show, ignoring them is just looking to criticize.
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Post by Freeza Mon Apr 29, 2019 2:50 pm

“Still room for criticism” there hasn’t really been anything else since season 4.

And it doesn’t really help, when the people who like the episodes are being called idiots because they disagree with a lot of the points raised.
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Post by M99 Mon Apr 29, 2019 3:16 pm

Show me one post where I called someone an idiot.
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Post by Freeza Mon Apr 29, 2019 3:20 pm

@M99 wrote:Show me one post where I called someone an idiot.


Firenze did. Not you.

I also have complaints about this episode. But they’re mainly directing related.

Story wise I don’t mind most of the stuff
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Post by M99 Mon Apr 29, 2019 3:32 pm

Night King knowing about Viserion is something that fans came up with to make sense of Beyond The Wall ep last season. Nothing confirmed this theory so far, the wights immediately attacked Jon and co when they saw the lake was frozen solid, so its not like they were waiting for Dany, their path to Jon was just blocked. The wight army this ep was standing in front of the burning trenches for a good while and no one did anything to them. Thats not me "looking for criticism". I wouldn't say how much I loved last ep last week if I was "looking to criticize" the show.


Last edited by M99 on Mon Apr 29, 2019 3:33 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post by Myesyats Mon Apr 29, 2019 3:33 pm

@rincon wrote:This level of nitpicking about a battle applies to every battle any of us will ever see. No matter which series or which media, books, shows or movies.

It was fantastically done.

Agree with Rincon on basically everything.

You can't please everyone. I only have an issue with how the Night King died but again that can be explained by his cockiness. His character was so cool I wish it lasted till the final ep.
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Post by Freeza Mon Apr 29, 2019 3:52 pm

@M99 wrote:Night King knowing about Viserion is something that fans came up with to make sense of Beyond The Wall ep last season. Nothing confirmed this theory so far, the wights immediately attacked Jon and co when they saw the lake was frozen solid, so its not like they were waiting for Dany, their path to Jon was just blocked. The wight army this ep was standing in front of the burning trenches for a good while and no one did anything to them. Thats not me "looking for criticism". I wouldn't say how much I loved last ep last week if I was "looking to criticize" the show.


Why would they do anything to them?

They weren't fighting to kill them all. They were fighting to win time. If they aren't doing anything and standing still, why agitate them, when they have no idea if they'll react?
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