GAME OF THRONES - PART 9 - *NO BOOK TALK - READ THE RULES*

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Post by Freeza Mon Apr 29, 2019 3:52 pm

@M99 wrote:Night King knowing about Viserion is something that fans came up with to make sense of Beyond The Wall ep last season. Nothing confirmed this theory so far, the wights immediately attacked Jon and co when they saw the lake was frozen solid, so its not like they were waiting for Dany, their path to Jon was just blocked. The wight army this ep was standing in front of the burning trenches for a good while and no one did anything to them. Thats not me "looking for criticism". I wouldn't say how much I loved last ep last week if I was "looking to criticize" the show.


Why would they do anything to them?

They weren't fighting to kill them all. They were fighting to win time. If they aren't doing anything and standing still, why agitate them, when they have no idea if they'll react?

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Post by Freeza Mon Apr 29, 2019 3:59 pm


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Post by rincon Mon Apr 29, 2019 4:00 pm

@M99 wrote:Night King knowing about Viserion is something that fans came up with to make sense of Beyond The Wall ep last season. Nothing confirmed this theory so far, the wights immediately attacked Jon and co when they saw the lake was frozen solid, so its not like they were waiting for Dany, their path to Jon was just blocked. The wight army this ep was standing in front of the burning trenches for a good while and no one did anything to them. Thats not me "looking for criticism". I wouldn't say how much I loved last ep last week if I was "looking to criticize" the show.

The NK would have had 0 issues killing them moment they were on that little island. He chose not to. He has the kind of strength and aim to kill a flying dragon with his ice spear. He could have also sent the wights to sacrifice themselves as usual to make a path. They could have wiped the guys on the island but didn't care to until the time was right.
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Post by M99 Mon Apr 29, 2019 4:06 pm

Speaking of which, the the Night King got insta killed from Valyrian steel, which is forged by dragonfire, but is immune to dragonfire. Why? Guess we'll never find out. According to the writers "there was no reason to believe that dragon fire wouldn't hurt him, but there was also no reason to believe that it would" There.

Why was Craster sacrificing his sons to them? Did they have an agreement? How did they even communicate?

Why did the white walkers particularly decide to come south now after 8000 years? Mance just randomly woke them like BC said?

This post on White Walkers just being Children Of The Forest weapons gone rogue sums up my problems with the plotline.

That's... extremely anticlimactic and lazy. They were created to kill. So they kill. They have no thoughts on this matter. THey have no prophecies of their own. They have no reaction to being the end-game boss for an entire religion with millions of followers. They've existed for millennia but have done nothing but quietly collect corpses when no one was looking. They never tried to take out/convert all the wildlings. They never tried to bring down the wall in the past. They just conveniently waited, jacking off in the snow, for thousands of years for our main characters to venture north of the wall (despite the Night's Watch doing this frequently for millenia). Were they just waiting on dragons? Dragons existed in Westeros for a couple hundred years before this, and they start their moves before Danny hatches hers on the other side of the world. So why, after millenia of hiding, did they choose just before the start of the show to begin harassing Wildings. I can't stress that enough. If there goal was simply to "kill all humans" why suffer the Wildlings to live for so long? Why begin trying to "harvest/convert" them right at the start of the show? Again, the dragon's hadn't been hatched yet, yet alone let them know about it. Does this mean the NK has greenseer/3ER powers like Bran does? Is that why he really wants to kill Bran, to prevent a rival?

And I could go on. But none of that will ever be addressed now. They are bad. They are ugly. THey kill. They are killed. The end. Oh, but there was that awkward scene where the writers tried to flesh out the WW. Sam mumbles about death and forgetting and how the NK wants all of humanity to be forgotten... because that's what real death is! Its just.... this is the big bad that was set up from the very first episode. And this is all we get of them. It's just so unsatisfying and lazy.
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Post by rincon Mon Apr 29, 2019 4:18 pm

@M99 wrote:Speaking of which, the the Night King got insta killed from Valyrian steel, which is forged by dragonfire, but is immune to dragonfire. Why? Guess we'll never find out. According to the writers "there was no reason to believe that dragon fire wouldn't hurt him, but there was also no reason to believe that it would" There.

We saw him made with dragonglass, we saw the walkers and wights be weak to dragonglass. It makes all the sense in the world that he was killed with dragonglass.

@M99 wrote:Why was Craster sacrificing his sons to them? Did they have an agreement? How did they even communicate?

To survive, this is obvious. He exchanged his sons for his lives just as he exchanged information to the nights watch for his safety. They show it, they say it.

You are demanding a level of exposition that doesn't exist in TV or movies, and refusing to connect and infer anything. I guess there's no point to continue with all this.
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Post by M99 Mon Apr 29, 2019 4:20 pm

He was not killed with dragonglass, he was killed with Valyrian steel which is completely different. It was Littlefinger's dagger from wayyyy back in season 1.

So I don't accept the "NK always knew about Viserion" fan theory as fact I am refusing to infer and connect, righto I think I'm done here too. I'll just accept the White Walkers are mindless killing drones because them being anything else is not possible in film/TV history.


Last edited by M99 on Mon Apr 29, 2019 4:24 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post by rincon Mon Apr 29, 2019 4:23 pm

True that's my bad. I mixed with how we've seen valyrian steel kill walkers already. I always assumed dragonglass was used to make to valyrian steel, can't remember now if there is a source for that though.
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Post by Freeza Mon Apr 29, 2019 4:23 pm

Aren't Valyrian steel infused with magical spells?

Always assumed something made with magic should be used to kill someone made from magic.

In general there's so little information about Valyrian steel, which makes it hard to determine a difference between it and dragonfire.


Last edited by Freeza on Mon Apr 29, 2019 4:25 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post by rincon Mon Apr 29, 2019 4:24 pm

Yes, that much they tell us.
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Post by M99 Mon Apr 29, 2019 4:25 pm

@Freeza wrote:Aren't Valyrian steel infused with magical spells?

Always assumed something made with magic should be used to kill someone made from magic.


Its a secret how they are forged. The secrets died with the Doom Of Valyria. Is it too much to ask why something made in Valyria is the key to killing something North of Westeros?
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Post by McLewis Mon Apr 29, 2019 4:51 pm

Epic episode honestly. Enthralling stuff.

I think if you already had problems with the direction this show has been going in, this episode probably crystallized that so there's no changing your mind.

If you're like me and just accept the show for what it is, then it was a truly awesome watch.
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Post by Kaladin Mon Apr 29, 2019 4:53 pm

One of the worst episodes in GoT and probably the worst battle.

Anticlimactic sums up my thoughts

Agreed with Firenze and M99
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Post by Freeza Mon Apr 29, 2019 4:57 pm

Re-watching episode now on my 4K tv.

Looks much better ffs Laughing

Can actually see most of it
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Post by M99 Mon Apr 29, 2019 4:59 pm

@Freeza wrote:Re-watching episode now on my 4K tv.

Looks much better ffs Laughing

Can actually see most of it


Its how I watched it. Didn't have problems with the lighting like others.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_3M0Xt97aFI
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Post by Doc Mon Apr 29, 2019 5:12 pm

Beyond the Wall, lol. That episode was way too ridiculous for me and like m99, nothing in the show said the Night's King was waiting on Viserion. Not even Bran which would have been an easy way to write yourself out of a pinch but whatever.

Anyway, the episode was excellent from a technical point of view (minus the literal dark tone lol) and the acting was spot on. And the score, my goodness, Ramin Djawadi has to be considered one of the best composers in the game right now. Don't really follow him to say I know or don't know so I hope he is. But once again and not for the first time post book cliff notes, I'm left with way more how's and why's than the feeling of "damn, this was lovely".

Episode 2 set it up nicely and I enjoyed that one a lot. This one, sigh, glad you guys loved it but I honestly get more annoyed thinking about it more than anything. Shame this is how the Night's King arc would end but end it did. Would see how the remainder of the season goes.
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Post by Kaladin Mon Apr 29, 2019 5:26 pm

Lmao Bran, fella was watching Endgame the whole episode
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Post by Freeza Mon Apr 29, 2019 5:33 pm

Nothing in the show suggested he was waiting on Vicerion?

Let me do you one better. Nothing in show suggested he would be anything other than a metaphor for global warming without a character arc. The need for him to have an arc was all built from fan theories.
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Post by RealGunner Mon Apr 29, 2019 5:44 pm

The worst part of the episode was the ridiculous plot armour

You see one character being surrounded by 50 wights in one scene and then next scene they are still alive but already moved somewhere else Laughing

Jon going full frank castle infront of visireon in the end screaming at his face. What was he expecting lol?

You have the best war generals around with many men who faced the white walkers previously and this was the plan they came up with? awful.


In terms of all the battles they have done. This is comfortably behind Hardhome, Battle of the bastards and Blackwater.

If you thought the Dorne arc was bad, this ended up being even worse.

Night King in the end served no purpose.
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Post by Glory Mon Apr 29, 2019 5:47 pm

k first of all who were the sonsofguns who asked for action after last week's episode? GAME OF THRONES - PART 9 - *NO BOOK TALK - READ THE RULES* - Page 5 2276801876 Holy mother of..................Thought I would legit die from heart attack.

Could only watch now as my net fked up in the morning :facepalm: and even now, I could only get a decentish quality video.
Anyway, need time. Need bloody time to process. Will return later to say something. Perhaps after watching again in better quality. Ciao.

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Post by Freeza Mon Apr 29, 2019 5:54 pm

@Realgunner

What Jon was expecting? Pretty sure he just gave up
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Post by Freeza Mon Apr 29, 2019 5:57 pm

Also NK served his purpose perfectly.

He got humans working together, stop the petty bullshit and was a force that reduced the amount Humans alive by a decent amount.

Never thought he was supposed to be more than a challenge to bring together a heroes.

I still have no idea why people thought he ought to be some kind of 3D mastermind. He’s just an unstoppable force archetype
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Post by Doc Mon Apr 29, 2019 5:58 pm

@Freeza wrote:Nothing in the show suggested he was waiting on Vicerion?

Let me do you one better. Nothing in show suggested he would be anything other than a metaphor for global warming without a character arc. The need for him to have an arc was all built from fan theories.

That metaphor, ironically, is a fan theory unless those hack frauds D&D actually said that.
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Post by Freeza Mon Apr 29, 2019 6:05 pm

@Doc wrote:
@Freeza wrote:Nothing in the show suggested he was waiting on Vicerion?

Let me do you one better. Nothing in show suggested he would be anything other than a metaphor for global warming without a character arc. The need for him to have an arc was all built from fan theories.

That metaphor, ironically, is a fan theory unless those hack frauds D&D actually said that.


It isn’t a fan theory as much as it is so fucking overt. The parallels are too big to deny. Dumb politicians fighting over stupid personal stuff while there’s a much bigger problem ahead.

And the catch phrase of the show literally is “winter is coming”.

Also GRRM even said as much here
https://www.esquire.com/entertainment/tv/a23863674/george-rr-martin-game-of-thrones-politics-trump-climate-change/

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Post by RealGunner Mon Apr 29, 2019 6:06 pm

@Freeza wrote:Also NK served his purpose perfectly.

He got humans working together, stop the petty bullshit and was a force that reduced the amount Humans alive by a decent amount.

Never thought he was supposed to be more than a challenge to bring together a heroes.

I still have no idea why people thought he ought to be some kind of 3D mastermind. He’s just an unstoppable force archetype


But he didn't though?

Cersei is still marching against the North. North itself is in conflict which will come out more now with Jon's reveal. They are just going to go back to fighting again. Back to where things were pre NK.

Since the 1st episode we have been hearing how "winter is coming" and how it's going to be the worst one. White walkers being a massive threat since season 1 and the fate of the world was on the line. It took them 9 years to march down the north which is fair enough but the long night just ended in 4 hours...He was a threat to Westeros for 4 hours out of 9 years...and then back to normal.

His reason to attack so he can kill bran "as he is the memory of the world" is the worst reasoning i have ever read in fiction. I hope there is more to it in the future episodes but i can't see it.



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Post by Freeza Mon Apr 29, 2019 6:13 pm

Let me ask instead. What should've happened with the long night?

Are you mad that every character didn't die, and the Night King didn't win? I thought the danger was plenty considering we've got like 15 dudes left to fight an army of 10.000 German looking rich kids.

I'm just happy we get the personal drama again from next episode. NK was never that interesting to me as a villain because he was never supposed to be more than what he was.
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Post by M99 Mon Apr 29, 2019 6:18 pm

@Freeza wrote:
@M99 wrote:One thing I really really hope the show does not ignore (inb4 no time) is the answer of why in this particular point in history are the white walkers invading. Also why they are doing it,

Yeah. I think we're due a very huge Bran expository scene in next episode to explain it. That or episode 7.

hmm

Oh well I guess us that are not satisfied should list to Tywin here.

https://gfycat.com/sentimentalglamorouscollie-charles-dance
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