The Official Comicbook Movies Thread: Part 3

Page 15 of 22 Previous  1 ... 9 ... 14, 15, 16 ... 18 ... 22  Next

Go down

The Official Comicbook Movies Thread: Part 3 - Page 15 Empty Re: The Official Comicbook Movies Thread: Part 3

Post by M99 on Sat Apr 27, 2019 6:35 pm

Spoiler:
Speaking of markout moments, how did all your theatre react when Cap used Mjolnir.

My theater legit went crazy. People were whooping, screaming, clapping. I lost control of myself too. Never saw anything like that in film. Same happened when all the snapped characters came back with the armies.

I need to do a rewatch though. Missed a lot of stuff. Just found out that in the final battle the Ravagers also show up with Howard The Duck ffs.

The Official Comicbook Movies Thread: Part 3 - Page 15 Mmhi9aD

M99
Ballon d'Or Contender
Ballon d'Or Contender

Posts : 29001
Join date : 2011-06-06

Back to top Go down

The Official Comicbook Movies Thread: Part 3 - Page 15 Empty Re: The Official Comicbook Movies Thread: Part 3

Post by RealGunner on Sat Apr 27, 2019 6:41 pm

@M99 wrote:
Spoiler:
Speaking of markout moments, how did all your theatre react when Cap used Mjolnir.

My theater legit went crazy. People were whooping, screaming, clapping. I lost control of myself too. Never saw anything like that in film. Same happened when all the snapped characters came back with the armies.

I need to do a rewatch though. Missed a lot of stuff. Just found out that in the final battle the Ravagers also show up with Howard The Duck ffs.

The Official Comicbook Movies Thread: Part 3 - Page 15 Mmhi9aD


Spoiler:


Is it normal in american cinemas for that type of reactions? like clapping and screaming. I always hear about it.

There were some loud gasps in mine and you could sense the excitement. casuals were really shocked.

Has to be the best moment of the film. He used it better than Thor ever has.

I didn't find Iron man's death that emotional but the most emotional scene was when cap's shield was breaking and he kept getting up. That was great.

RealGunner
RealGunner
Admin
Admin

Club Supported : Arsenal
Posts : 86889
Join date : 2011-06-05

Back to top Go down

The Official Comicbook Movies Thread: Part 3 - Page 15 Empty Re: The Official Comicbook Movies Thread: Part 3

Post by RealGunner on Sat Apr 27, 2019 6:44 pm

Spoiler:


Wonder what happened when Cap went back to place the stones and met red skull Laughing
RealGunner
RealGunner
Admin
Admin

Club Supported : Arsenal
Posts : 86889
Join date : 2011-06-05

Back to top Go down

The Official Comicbook Movies Thread: Part 3 - Page 15 Empty Re: The Official Comicbook Movies Thread: Part 3

Post by M99 on Sat Apr 27, 2019 6:47 pm

@RealGunner wrote:
@M99 wrote:
Spoiler:
Speaking of markout moments, how did all your theatre react when Cap used Mjolnir.

My theater legit went crazy. People were whooping, screaming, clapping. I lost control of myself too. Never saw anything like that in film. Same happened when all the snapped characters came back with the armies.

I need to do a rewatch though. Missed a lot of stuff. Just found out that in the final battle the Ravagers also show up with Howard The Duck ffs.

The Official Comicbook Movies Thread: Part 3 - Page 15 Mmhi9aD


Spoiler:


Is it normal in american cinemas for that type of reactions? like clapping and screaming. I always hear about it.

There were some loud gasps in mine and you could sense the excitement. casuals were really shocked.

Has to be the best moment of the film. He used it better than Thor ever has.

I didn't find Iron man's death that emotional but the most emotional scene was when cap's shield was breaking and he kept getting up. That was great.



Spoiler:
From my experience, not that much. Only other time I remember something like this was in Infinity War when Thor entered Wakanda.

Iron Man's death unleashed waterworks at my theater tho Laughing
M99
M99
Ballon d'Or Contender
Ballon d'Or Contender

Club Supported : AC Milan
Posts : 29001
Join date : 2011-06-06
Age : 97

Back to top Go down

The Official Comicbook Movies Thread: Part 3 - Page 15 Empty Re: The Official Comicbook Movies Thread: Part 3

Post by RealGunner on Sat Apr 27, 2019 6:47 pm

@rincon wrote:@M99 that was definitily an asian kid. Just came out of watching it the second time.

Gets even better.


Solved the mystery

Spoiler:


That is his son who was also in AOU but the actor is half Asian and it was not apparent in AOU but it is in endgame lol

RealGunner
RealGunner
Admin
Admin

Club Supported : Arsenal
Posts : 86889
Join date : 2011-06-05

Back to top Go down

The Official Comicbook Movies Thread: Part 3 - Page 15 Empty Re: The Official Comicbook Movies Thread: Part 3

Post by M99 on Sat Apr 27, 2019 7:02 pm

Spoiler:
I still can't get over fat Thor playing Fortnite and threatening MT on the PS4 rofl
M99
M99
Ballon d'Or Contender
Ballon d'Or Contender

Club Supported : AC Milan
Posts : 29001
Join date : 2011-06-06
Age : 97

Back to top Go down

The Official Comicbook Movies Thread: Part 3 - Page 15 Empty Re: The Official Comicbook Movies Thread: Part 3

Post by RealGunner on Sat Apr 27, 2019 7:05 pm

I missed them so much

Spoiler:


asgardians of the galaxy is going to be so insane

RealGunner
RealGunner
Admin
Admin

Club Supported : Arsenal
Posts : 86889
Join date : 2011-06-05

Back to top Go down

The Official Comicbook Movies Thread: Part 3 - Page 15 Empty Re: The Official Comicbook Movies Thread: Part 3

Post by M99 on Sat Apr 27, 2019 7:17 pm

Spoiler:
During the conference call Black Widow has at the start, Okoye mentions reports earthquakes under the sea. People are saying this was setting up Namor. He'll probably be in Black Panther 2.
M99
M99
Ballon d'Or Contender
Ballon d'Or Contender

Club Supported : AC Milan
Posts : 29001
Join date : 2011-06-06
Age : 97

Back to top Go down

The Official Comicbook Movies Thread: Part 3 - Page 15 Empty Re: The Official Comicbook Movies Thread: Part 3

Post by RealGunner on Sat Apr 27, 2019 7:22 pm

@M99 wrote:
Spoiler:
During the conference call Black Widow has at the start, Okoye mentions reports earthquakes under the sea. People are saying this was setting up Namor. He'll probably be in Black Panther 2.


Didn't pick up that at all

Spoiler:


can't wait for namor vs aquaman fanboys war

Saw many speculate that Kang might be the big villain in phase 4. Makes sense. Can also integrate F4.

RealGunner
RealGunner
Admin
Admin

Club Supported : Arsenal
Posts : 86889
Join date : 2011-06-05

Back to top Go down

The Official Comicbook Movies Thread: Part 3 - Page 15 Empty Re: The Official Comicbook Movies Thread: Part 3

Post by rincon on Sat Apr 27, 2019 7:33 pm

@RealGunner wrote:
@rincon wrote:@M99 that was definitily an asian kid. Just came out of watching it the second time.

Gets even better.


Solved the mystery

Spoiler:


That is his son who was also in AOU but the actor is half Asian and it was not apparent in AOU but it is in endgame lol


Spoiler:
is that confirmed? Its pretty funny cause he just looks Asian in the movie, VERY out of place with the rest of the family. I thought it was a Japanese kid that Clont adopted in the last 5 years as Ronin in Japan. If he had enough time to learn fluent Japanese and become a samurai then he could also have adopted a kid
rincon
rincon
World Class Contributor
World Class Contributor

Club Supported : Juventus
Posts : 14607
Join date : 2012-06-07

Back to top Go down

The Official Comicbook Movies Thread: Part 3 - Page 15 Empty Re: The Official Comicbook Movies Thread: Part 3

Post by rincon on Sat Apr 27, 2019 8:07 pm

@RealGunner wrote:
@M99 wrote:
Spoiler:
Speaking of markout moments, how did all your theatre react when Cap used Mjolnir.

My theater legit went crazy. People were whooping, screaming, clapping. I lost control of myself too. Never saw anything like that in film. Same happened when all the snapped characters came back with the armies.

I need to do a rewatch though. Missed a lot of stuff. Just found out that in the final battle the Ravagers also show up with Howard The Duck ffs.

The Official Comicbook Movies Thread: Part 3 - Page 15 Mmhi9aD


Spoiler:


Is it normal in american cinemas for that type of reactions? like clapping and screaming. I always hear about it.

There were some loud gasps in mine and you could sense the excitement. casuals were really shocked.

Has to be the best moment of the film. He used it better than Thor ever has.

I didn't find Iron man's death that emotional but the most emotional scene was when cap's shield was breaking and he kept getting up. That was great.


Spoiler:
The two top moments for me are "I'm Iron Man" snap and his death, and the "Avengers Assemble" when everyone comes back through the portals. I think the assemble is my #1. Unbelivably epic moment, it's crazy that it's even possible to have such a moment make sense in a movie.

I also loved Cap's fighting style with Mjolnir + the shield, so badass.

Thanos showing his ruthlessness and true "villain-ness" was so good as well. Savage fighting style smashing Captain's shield, and using the power stone to take out CM.
rincon
rincon
World Class Contributor
World Class Contributor

Club Supported : Juventus
Posts : 14607
Join date : 2012-06-07

Back to top Go down

The Official Comicbook Movies Thread: Part 3 - Page 15 Empty Re: The Official Comicbook Movies Thread: Part 3

Post by RealGunner on Sat Apr 27, 2019 8:11 pm

So now that it is all over

Top 5 MCU films?

RealGunner
RealGunner
Admin
Admin

Club Supported : Arsenal
Posts : 86889
Join date : 2011-06-05

Back to top Go down

The Official Comicbook Movies Thread: Part 3 - Page 15 Empty Re: The Official Comicbook Movies Thread: Part 3

Post by rincon on Sat Apr 27, 2019 8:26 pm

There a couple that I would like to rewatch. I think for me its something like this even if it changes from time to time.

Endgame
Infinity War
GOTG2
GOTG
Winter Soldier

Ragnarok, Civil War, Iron Man and Avengers top 10.
rincon
rincon
World Class Contributor
World Class Contributor

Club Supported : Juventus
Posts : 14607
Join date : 2012-06-07

Back to top Go down

The Official Comicbook Movies Thread: Part 3 - Page 15 Empty Re: The Official Comicbook Movies Thread: Part 3

Post by Freeza on Sat Apr 27, 2019 8:44 pm

My top-5 is this in order from best to least best:

Endgame
Guardians
Homecoming
Ant-Man and The Wasp
Black Panther
Freeza
Freeza
Ballon d'Or Contender
Ballon d'Or Contender

Club Supported : Inter Milan
Posts : 22607
Join date : 2011-06-06
Age : 26

Back to top Go down

The Official Comicbook Movies Thread: Part 3 - Page 15 Empty Re: The Official Comicbook Movies Thread: Part 3

Post by McLewis on Sat Apr 27, 2019 11:49 pm

Endgame
Infinity War
GOTG1
Civil War
Black Panther
McLewis
McLewis
Admin
Admin

Club Supported : Roma
Posts : 12025
Join date : 2011-06-05
Age : 32

Back to top Go down

The Official Comicbook Movies Thread: Part 3 - Page 15 Empty Re: The Official Comicbook Movies Thread: Part 3

Post by Don't call me James on Sun Apr 28, 2019 12:15 am

Endgame was above and beyond all of my expectations. :bow:

Spoiler:
Cap lifting mjolnir erupted my theater. I was giddy, like a little girl, myself.

Avengers assemble and I am Tony Stark got me way more teary eyed than Tony's death or Scarlet's death.

I honestly was dreading the death of Cap. When his shield broke and he kept getting up I thought that was the moment he would die and then the calvary showed up. Fuck man, that was by far the most emotional part.

Perfect ending.

My top 5:

1. Endgame
2. Infinity War
3. Civil War
4. Winter Soldier
5. The Avengers/Guardians 1
Don't call me James
Don't call me James
Ballon d'Or Contender
Ballon d'Or Contender

Club Supported : Reggina
Posts : 28251
Join date : 2011-06-05
Age : 103

Back to top Go down

The Official Comicbook Movies Thread: Part 3 - Page 15 Empty Re: The Official Comicbook Movies Thread: Part 3

Post by Freeza on Sun Apr 28, 2019 3:33 am

Still my favourite moment from these movies:


Freeza
Freeza
Ballon d'Or Contender
Ballon d'Or Contender

Club Supported : Inter Milan
Posts : 22607
Join date : 2011-06-06
Age : 26

Back to top Go down

The Official Comicbook Movies Thread: Part 3 - Page 15 Empty Re: The Official Comicbook Movies Thread: Part 3

Post by RealGunner on Sun Apr 28, 2019 10:53 am

Top 5

1. Winter Soldier
2. Guardians of the Galaxy 1
3. Infinity War
4. Thor: Ragnarok
5. Endgame
RealGunner
RealGunner
Admin
Admin

Club Supported : Arsenal
Posts : 86889
Join date : 2011-06-05

Back to top Go down

The Official Comicbook Movies Thread: Part 3 - Page 15 Empty Re: The Official Comicbook Movies Thread: Part 3

Post by M99 on Sun Apr 28, 2019 11:43 am

Spoiler:
When I said the movie was rewarding to those who saw all the MCU films, nearly every movie had a link or easter egg.

Iron Man: I am Iron Man, cheeseburgers, proof Tony Stark has a heart, the post credit sound of him building the armor.

Iron Man 2: Howard leaves a video message for Tony to see if he dies, Tony does the same to his daughter, also has a final convo with his father.

Iron Man 3: Pepper's Rescue armor, the kid showing up in the funeral.

Incredible Hulk: Hulk talking about him being gamma, established in this film.

Thor: Thor thought he was worthy of the hammer but he was unworthy, here he thought he was unworthy bur was worthy.

Thor 2: They travelled back to this film obviously, also got the origins of Loki impersonating Cap.

Thor 3: Korg/Miek/Valkyrie, Thor talks with his father to unlock his full potential, here Thor talks with his mother to get back his powers, the Asgardians arriving in the final battle, New Asgard being in the same place Odin dies in Norway.

GOTG: They travel back to this film, we see the opening in a hilarious new light, Gamora kicks Peter in the nuts again just like their first meeting.

GOTG 2: Ravagers and Howard The Duck show up in the final battle, Drax kills Cull Osbidian the same way he goes crazy with the knives on the creature at the film's start.

Doctor Strange: We see The Ancient One again, she was defending the Sanctum during the events of Avengers 1 closing a plothole in the process.

Black Panther: The Wakandan army and their badass war cries.

Ant Man: This film establishes Hank Pym working for SHIELD in the 70s with Howard and Peggy, they travel back to that time.

And Man and The Wasp: Wasp calling Captain America "Cap" after admonishing Scott for it in this movie. The look they shared after it. The post credit scene obviously.

Spider-Man Homecoming: Peter hugging Tony when he was actually getting the door, Tony says "We're not there yet", this film they definitely went "there" Plus Spiderman finally activated Instant Kill mode.

Captain Marvel: The post credit scene is the bridge between Infinity War and Endgame. She arrives at the Avengers compound and then goes looking for Tony in space.

Captain America: Captain and peggy finally get their dance, "you're taking all the stupid with you" "I can do this all day" Plus New Asgard is in the same place Odin hid the Tesseract at the start of the movie.

Captain America 2: "On your left" is what Cap used to repeatedly tell Falcon when they used to race, we thought we'll get the iconic elevator scene again but "Hail Hydra"

Civil War: Clint asks Black Panther "do you know who I am?" and BP replies I don't care. In this film BP calls Clint by name, showing he does know who he is. Also Tony is still angry at Captain at the start and finally reconcile five years later. Captain calls Spiderman Queens in Endgame referring to their interaction in Civil War.

Avengers: obvious, they travel back to the battle, shows the aftermath which we never saw and how Hydra got the scepter.

Age of Ultron: FINALLY we get the payoff of Cap lifting Thor's hammer and saying Avengers Assemble, also how Captain told Tony this film if they lose they will lose together which Tony reminds him after he gets back to Earth, also Tony first namedropped Endgame here, he also saw the vision of Captain's broken shield and him standing alone against the endgame.

Infinity War: Thor finally goes for the head, Tony does the one in 14 million.


Last edited by M99 on Sun Apr 28, 2019 9:28 pm; edited 2 times in total
M99
M99
Ballon d'Or Contender
Ballon d'Or Contender

Club Supported : AC Milan
Posts : 29001
Join date : 2011-06-06
Age : 97

Back to top Go down

The Official Comicbook Movies Thread: Part 3 - Page 15 Empty Re: The Official Comicbook Movies Thread: Part 3

Post by jibers on Sun Apr 28, 2019 2:42 pm

Spoiler:
Good movie. Lots of Easter eggs. Liked they way they handled CM, she was clearly the strongest by far but they did it a way that she didn'tdemolish Thanos. The fight scene at the end was unreal. The music, the cast, the numbers, definition of Epic. Goosebumps. Would give it a 7-7.5.

Iron Man, Civil War, Winter Soldier and Avengers(1) still the best MCU movies for me.
jibers
jibers
World Class Contributor
World Class Contributor

Club Supported : Manchester United
Posts : 10207
Join date : 2011-06-06

Back to top Go down

The Official Comicbook Movies Thread: Part 3 - Page 15 Empty Re: The Official Comicbook Movies Thread: Part 3

Post by Kaladin on Sun Apr 28, 2019 4:31 pm

1. Endgame
2. Thor: Ragnarok
3. Infinity War
4. Civil War
5. Spiderman Homecoming
Kaladin
Kaladin
Stormblessed

Club Supported : Real Madrid
Posts : 23395
Join date : 2012-06-28
Age : 27

Back to top Go down

The Official Comicbook Movies Thread: Part 3 - Page 15 Empty Re: The Official Comicbook Movies Thread: Part 3

Post by RealGunner on Sun Apr 28, 2019 8:44 pm

Seems like Cavill might be out as well from DCEU. Ezra is more or less out since he doesn't like Flash's script.

RealGunner
RealGunner
Admin
Admin

Club Supported : Arsenal
Posts : 86889
Join date : 2011-06-05

Back to top Go down

The Official Comicbook Movies Thread: Part 3 - Page 15 Empty Re: The Official Comicbook Movies Thread: Part 3

Post by M99 on Mon Apr 29, 2019 4:43 pm

Spoiler:
Seen a lot of discussion online about Captain America's ending.

Is it a plothole? He lives with Peggy in an alternate timeline, how does he show up old in the main timeline? If he came back to the main timeline after growing old in the alt timeline, he would have reappeared in the machine not where he was sitting.

It is confusing tbh.
M99
M99
Ballon d'Or Contender
Ballon d'Or Contender

Club Supported : AC Milan
Posts : 29001
Join date : 2011-06-06
Age : 97

Back to top Go down

The Official Comicbook Movies Thread: Part 3 - Page 15 Empty Re: The Official Comicbook Movies Thread: Part 3

Post by Freeza on Mon Apr 29, 2019 4:51 pm

@M99 wrote:
Spoiler:
Seen a lot of discussion online about Captain America's ending.

Is it a plothole? He lives with Peggy in an alternate timeline, how does he show up old in the main timeline? If he came back to the main timeline after growing old in the alt timeline, he would have reappeared in the machine not where he was sitting.

It is confusing tbh.


Spoiler:
It's confusing.

I think there's two versions Captain America's in the current timeline. The one who went back in time, and the one stuck in the ice.
I think that's the reason why we never see Peggy Carter's husband in any of the photos on her bed in the hospital. So timetraveling Steve is actually her husband. She even says "none of us can go back (in time)" which makes it seem like it was a nod to her knowing he went back in time in the future.

It makes sense he can do this without causing a paradox, because the one in the ice won't be brought back until the other one is too old to be recognized.
Freeza
Freeza
Ballon d'Or Contender
Ballon d'Or Contender

Club Supported : Inter Milan
Posts : 22607
Join date : 2011-06-06
Age : 26

Back to top Go down

The Official Comicbook Movies Thread: Part 3 - Page 15 Empty Re: The Official Comicbook Movies Thread: Part 3

Post by Freeza on Mon Apr 29, 2019 7:24 pm

Polka Dot Man has been cast

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/suicide-squad-sequel-casts-david-dastmalchian-as-polka-dot-man-1205280
Freeza
Freeza
Ballon d'Or Contender
Ballon d'Or Contender

Club Supported : Inter Milan
Posts : 22607
Join date : 2011-06-06
Age : 26

Back to top Go down

The Official Comicbook Movies Thread: Part 3 - Page 15 Empty Re: The Official Comicbook Movies Thread: Part 3

Post by guest_07 on Tue Apr 30, 2019 4:45 am

Assalamu'alaikum warahmatullahi wabarakatuh to Muslim
& Good day to the rest

The 'Avengers: Endgame' Plot-Hole
Is Not Really A Plot-Hole At All (Spoilers)


Source

Spoiler:

In the aftermath of Avengers: Endgame's mind-boggling record-shattering $1.2 billion opening weekend, there have been rumblings from some journalists and fans claiming a big plot-hole exists in the film. But the fact is, this so-called "plot-hole" is nothing of the sort, and paying careful attention to the film's events will reward viewers by explaining why the supposed plot-hole actually makes perfect sense and is part of the story after all.

But consider this a loud warning, I've thus far avoided even hinting at the nature of the supposed plot-hole or which character(s) it involves, but the rest of this article will dive into details that include major spoilers about Endgame's plot and about the ending of the film. So if you've not seen the movie yet, then I urge you not to read any further.

One quick note before we start. A plot-hole isn't just something you don't understand in a film. Nor is a plot-hole just a failure of a film to literally show and explain every single detail to you, rather than give you the pieces and let you figure it out yourself because you are presumably capable of doing so. People too often use the term "plot-hole" for minor continuity errors or dangling plot threads that don't actually substantively change the outcome or the main plot. Sometimes they mistakenly use "plot-hole" in reference to characters having better options and simply not choosing those options (for example: "It's a plot-hole that they could've just done X or Y and it would've ended the threat at the start"). None of those things are really "plot-holes," though, and if a reasonable and consistent explanation exists that fits into the film and resolves the supposed problem, then the existence of that explanation means it's not a plot-hole.

Now, if you're still here, then read on to find out why the supposed plot-hole in Avengers: Endgame is not a plot hole at all...

It took less than a day for some outlets to start running "the end of Endgame makes no sense" articles, and for a lot of fans to argue about why the film violates its own carefully constructed rules governing time travel. These criticisms will no doubt spread and grow as the days go on and more people are willing to talk about spoilers, so let me just nip it all in the bud right now by explaining how it all does make sense.

Avengers: Endgame sees the heroes traveling through time to various moments we witnessed in previous MCU movies. In doing so, they are obviously interfering with and even altering certain events that transpired in the past. However, this doesn't actually change the past for the MCU's timeline. The film establishes very simple rules to help understand why the heroes' actions don't change what happened in earlier films or affect the heroes' own timeline, so let's those rules that really quickly.

First of all, when the heroes go back in time, the moment they affect events in a way that really significantly changes the course of events and alters the future, it creates a divergent timeline. This becomes an alternate reality, in other words, separate from the original timeline of events. So there is still the original timeline that proceeds exactly as we all witnessed it during previous MCU movies, and then there is separately an alternate reality from the changed moment onward into a changed future.

So the heroes are told upfront that they don't have to worry about altering their own timeline and future by changing the past, since it will become alternate realities instead. But they are also trying hard not to do anything that causes significant changes to those alternate realities, since doing so could result in horrible outcomes for the people living in those alternate realities. This is why, after they've collected the Infinity Stones, the heroes have to eventually time travel again and put the stones back at the exact moment they were taken, to allow those timelines to continue forward uninterrupted and as unchanged as possible.

So, that's why at the very end of Endgame, Captain America takes all of the Infinity Stones -- plus Thor's hammer -- back in time again, to visit those same various timelines and put the stones and hammer back where they belong. Are you with me so far? Good. Because this is where things start to get more complicated.

The supposed plot-hole starts here, when Captain America is sent back in time to replace everything the Avengers took from the past. When Hulk, Falcon, and Bucky are waiting for Captain America to return, he doesn't show back up in the time travel platform device they've set up. Instead, after a moment, Bucky notices an elderly Cap sitting on a bench nearby, waiting for them. And we learn that after he successfully put all the stones and the hammer back where they belong, Cap decided to go back to 1940 and have a life with his long-lost love Peggy Carter. They lived together and got married, and now Cap is an old man.

Cool side note: If Cap was around 30+ years old when he time traveled to 1940, and if we assume he went back to 1946 so that the war would be over, then that means the elderly Cap we see on the bench must be at least 108 years old, since Endgame takes place 5 years after Infinity War, which was set in 2018 (the date is clarified by Tony Stark's remark in Infinity War that the events of the first Avengers movie took place 6 years earlier, and confirmed during the part of Endgame set in the Battle of New York it specifically says it's the year 2012). Of course, the super-soldier serum in Cap's veins made him heal quickly and he was immune to most illnesses, so it also probably helped him live a longer life and look a little bit younger than his real age, which is why he looked old but not north of 100 at the end of Endgame.

But wait a minute, the complaints say -- how can Cap be in the original main timeline as an old man? If he went back in time and stayed there, living a life with Peggy, that changes the past in some important ways, including the fact Peggy had originally gotten married to someone else and had two kids. That's a pretty major change to history, you'd think.

Which is to say, by going back and staying in the past, Captain America must've changed the timeline and thus created a divergent timeline. Right?

Well, it turns out even if the answer to that is a resounding "yes," it doesn't matter. Because the film established something ELSE about time-travel, in a very important moment that taught Cap everything he needed to know to pull off his magic reappearance as an old man in the original timeline.

Remember when Cap, Iron Man, and Ant-Man go back to 2012 and the events of the first Avengers film to retrieve the Tesseract, and it all goes wrong? At that point, Cap and Iron Man have a discussion and it's revealed that since they are traveling into the past rather than the future, they can use their hand-held Quantum Realm devices to pick a different time (the 1970s) in the past to time travel again. They even pick the precise location they want to travel back to. They simply type in the new date and coordinates, and poof! They vanish, traveling back to the new destination.

That's where Captain America sees Peggy Carter by accident, and starts thinking about her. This is surely the moment when the idea enters his head that he can possibly eventually go back and spend time with her. And again, the film clearly establishes this additional special rule allowing time travelers to choose a different date in the past and travel there, without need for the big platform and someone running a machine to pull them into the future. Notice, too, that during this part of his mission, Cap only needs to grab a couple of vials of Pym Particles, but instead the film takes pains to show us he actually winds up grabbing FOUR vials -- meaning he has extras that nobody else knows about. This is relevant later, so keep it in mind.

So what we know is going into the past can be done from any point in time, using the handheld Quantum Realm devices, while traveling back into the future again requires the use of the big platform and machine. Cap knows this too, and it's how he figured out what to do to have his life with Peggy and then return to his own original timeline again.

Cap dropped off all of the Infinity Stones and Thor's hammer, went back to the 1940s and lived a good life with Peggy Carter, and then stayed in that timeline all the way up until some time AFTER that day when the Hulk sent him back to drop everything off. By living in the alternate timeline to a point past the date he began his time travel, Cap was then able to use his Quantum device to send himself BACK IN TIME without need for the big platform and machine, and he could even pick the precise spot where he wanted to arrive -- namely, that hill with the park bench, right beside the spot where Hulk, Falcon, and Bucky would be waiting for him. Or maybe he jumped back to that morning, or the day before, to spend a little time catching up on this original timeline. The point is, he used the handheld device and the special rule about traveling backward in time to arrive at the same moment there on that hill, where his friends would be waiting for him.

Now we come back to my earlier point about the film explicitly showing us Cap grabbed four vials of Pym Particles while in the 1970s, after seeing Peggy Carter. When Cap was being sent back in time to drop off the various stones and Thor's hammer, they no doubt gave him enough Pym Particles for his Quantum device to let him travel to all of the various timelines to do the job. But Cap already had his own secret alternate plans, and those plans required him to be able to make TWO EXTRA time jumps -- one to the 1940s, and the other to the bench on the hill the day the Hulk, Falcon, and Bucky were waiting for him to return.

So Cap got to spend his life with his long-lost love, Peggy Carter, without messing up any of the original timeline. And even in that alternate timeline, there was a different Cap who fought in World War II and then fell into the ice and vanished, who would also eventually be revived in the 2000s, go on to join the Avengers, and help save the world from Thanos.

Which all demonstrates Captain America reappearing on that bench is not a plot-hole. The film specifically takes time to explain how time-travel works and why nobody actually changes the main timeline's history; that a new divergent timeline is created by changes; that anyone who goes into the past can travel around to additional points in the past; that Cap figured out with Iron Man that additional time travel throughout the past was possible with just the handheld Quantum device; and that Cap took extra Pym Particles, thus having some extras if he needed them for his private plan to go back in time and live with Peggy.

The filmmakers established all of those things clearly enough, and it all lines up to explain what happened. But the film is so complex and there are so many moving parts, it took me seeing it a second time for it all to fall into place for me. Once you see it, though, it's obvious and isn't really complicated. In fact, now that I understand it, when I watch the film it stands out like a big neon sign hinting at what Cap is going to do and how the film will probably end.

Considering we've all spent months speculating about whether Cap would get to have his dance with Peggy, we should've seen it coming as soon as Captain American and Iron Man discussed using their Quantum devices to go back further in time, and when Cap saw Peggy moments after grabbing those extra Pym Particles (which the camera even lingered on for a moment).

That is all a solid explanation that fits perfectly within the context of any argument asserting Captain America shouldn't have been on that bench in the main timeline because any life he lived in the past had to be in a divergent timeline. Anyone who says Cap was in a different timeline in the past, therefore, should see how this explanation proves there isn't a plot-hole since a consistent, relatively simple explanation exists which seems directly implied by several elements in the film.

Now, that said, there is a second interpretation of the film to consider. Some viewers could say the film's time travel rules do NOT establish the existence of divergent timelines based solely on changes to the past, since there is some potential vague implication that perhaps alternate timelines only come into existence if one or more Infinity Stones remain missing from a particular point time -- the sudden absence of a stone causing a new divergent timeline to branch off from the original timeline, because the stones work together to control the flow of space-time. In this interpretation, then, alternate timelines only exist if one or more stones that the Avengers took were to never be returned to their original moment in time. But since Cap did return all of the stones back to the moment they were taken, no divergent timelines could remain in existence, and they'd simply fold back into the original timeline again.

If that's how someone interprets the rules of time in the film, though, it still means no plot-hole exists for Captain America living in the past. If Cap puts all of the stones back and ensures no alternate timelines exist anymore, then that means when he goes to the 1940s and lives with Peggy Carter, he'd simply be in the original timeline and would remain there as long as he doesn't remove any Infinity Stones again. In that case, he would just need to avoid anyone identifying who he really is, take an assumed name, and live with Peggy -- presumably, he would just dye his hair and assume the identity of one of the soldiers who died in World War II but whom he and Peggy would pretend was one of the men rescued by Captain America (which is who Peggy claims her husband was, in a video interview of Peggy seen in Captain America: The Winter Solider, although no name for her husband is given).

While it might be tricky for Cap and Peggy to pull this off, remember it was the 1940s, no electronic record-keeping really existed, and even most drivers licenses didn't even include photographs. Cap was famous, so he'd have to change his appearance enough to avoid easy detection, but as long as he kept a low profile it should be easy enough to imagine someone of his intelligence and training could do it. Peggy being a spy means she'd also be more than capable of making it work.

That said, I don't agree with this interpretation, since the film clearly states you cannot change the past and thus affect the future -- and if Peggy originally married someone else and had two children (as the official MCU canon says she did), then Cap marrying her instead would definitely change the past and totally alter the future. Also, we know some major changes to the past DID in fact take place in some of the timelines the Avengers visited: there is a timeline in which Loki got the Tesseract and escaped imprisonment immediately after the events of the 2012 film The Avengers; and there is a timeline in which Thanos, Nebula, Gamora, and Thanos' entire army and Black Order left and never returned (since they were all erased from existence by Iron Man in Endgame). Those were huge alterations to historic events, which would undeniably have major repercussions on the future and completely change everything that transpired.

So those alternate timelines must exist, unless when Cap put the stones back in place, all of those alternate realities simply vanished, killing everyone in them -- which surely isn't what Cap did, and isn't what the Ancient One meant or intended when she explained how the stones work and that she didn't want her own reality to be destroyed if the Hulk failed to live up to his promise to return the stone. All of which tells me any interpretation claiming no divergent timelines actually exist is flawed and leaves major questions unresolved in any consistent way, whereas my original explanation fits everything in the film and resolves plot-hole claims.

It's true that at the end of the film, the Hulk tells Cap to be sure to put all of the stones back at the exact moments they were taken, otherwise it could create alternate realities where things could go badly. But he's not saying that alternate realities will only exist IF Cap fails to return the stones -- he's saying that failure to return the stones would mean things would go badly in any alternate realities that do already exist. It's a question of whether things are basically back to normal in those timelines, or things go badly due to lack of the stones. See? Once again, the original interpretation of time rules can fit with everything. And with the existence of a clear explanation that fits it all, that's how we should interpret the film -- especially since (to beat a dead horse) the film hints pretty strongly that this interpretation is intended and seems obvious in retrospect.

Avengers: Endgame is a wonderfully complex story that, contrary to any complaints or claims otherwise, does a great job setting up the rules for its time travel and then sticking to them. And the deeper we dive into the details, the more obvious it becomes that the film rewards multiple viewings with new insights and surprises. Cap's secret plan to have his dance with Peggy is just one such reward -- another is, as Sean Gerber points out over at Marvel Studio News, a possible reference to Prince Namor (aka the Submariner).

So no, there isn't a major time travel plothole in Avengers: Endgame. Captain America's appearance on that bench does indeed make sense, and Endgame did the work to set it up and explain how it was possible. I didn't see it at first, and was among those confused by how it happened, but it only took a second viewing to confirm it was -- like so much else -- inevitable.

guest_07
First Team
First Team

Posts : 1812
Join date : 2013-10-16

Back to top Go down

The Official Comicbook Movies Thread: Part 3 - Page 15 Empty Re: The Official Comicbook Movies Thread: Part 3

Post by Sponsored content


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

Page 15 of 22 Previous  1 ... 9 ... 14, 15, 16 ... 18 ... 22  Next

Back to top


 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum