Brexit: Should the UK stay or go?

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Post by Unique Wed Nov 29, 2017 5:25 pm

@rincon wrote:It's hilarious to see people actively try to ruin their own country and at the same time being arrogant about it.
yeah what on earth will Britain do without freezer buying crap from England off the internet. rofl

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Post by Hapless_Hans Wed Nov 29, 2017 5:34 pm

@Unique wrote:
@Hapless_Hans wrote:
@M99 wrote:


One of the stupidest posts I have ever seen. So now you think Britain will colonize North America, India, Australia etc now they are free of the EU?


Not to mention that I'm pretty sure people were starving to death all the time on streets all over that great Empire, including England

Brexit: Should the UK stay or go? - Page 4 7df2f010


Well, not the royal family obviously

but in the UK itself for example

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Famine_(Ireland)
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Post by Unique Wed Nov 29, 2017 5:38 pm

@Hapless_Hans wrote:
@Unique wrote:
@Hapless_Hans wrote:


Not to mention that I'm pretty sure people were starving to death all the time on streets all over that great Empire, including England

Brexit: Should the UK stay or go? - Page 4 7df2f010


Well, not the royal family obviously

but in the UK itself for example

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Famine_(Ireland)
dude that was 1845.
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Post by Hapless_Hans Wed Nov 29, 2017 5:41 pm

@Unique wrote:
@Hapless_Hans wrote:
@Unique wrote:

Brexit: Should the UK stay or go? - Page 4 7df2f010


Well, not the royal family obviously

but in the UK itself for example

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Famine_(Ireland)
dude that was 1845.


You said people in the UK wouldn't stave in the streets because after all Britain was able to build the greatest empire.
Here you have people starving in the streets of the UK at the very heyday of that great empire.
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Post by Unique Wed Nov 29, 2017 5:48 pm

@Hapless_Hans wrote:
@Unique wrote:
@Hapless_Hans wrote:


Well, not the royal family obviously

but in the UK itself for example

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Famine_(Ireland)
dude that was 1845.


You said people in the UK wouldn't stave in the streets because after all Britain was able to build the greatest empire.
Here you have people starving in the streets of the UK at the very heyday of that great empire.
we did build the greatest empire the world has ever seen. and nobody will starve in the streets after we leave the EU and I'm willing to bet my life on that.
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Post by Hapless_Hans Wed Nov 29, 2017 5:52 pm

@Unique wrote:
@Hapless_Hans wrote:
@Unique wrote:
dude that was 1845.


You said people in the UK wouldn't stave in the streets because after all Britain was able to build the greatest empire.
Here you have people starving in the streets of the UK at the very heyday of that great empire.
we did build the greatest empire the world has ever seen. and nobody will starve in the streets after we leave the EU and I'm willing to bet my life on that.


Yeah obviously Brits are not going to literally starve in the streets because of Brexit. That's absurd.

Just saying your reasoning is counterproductive
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Post by BarrileteCosmico Wed Nov 29, 2017 7:38 pm

@DagenhamDave wrote:The EU has a system in place for countries to unilaterally leave the EU called Article 50. in this it clearly states that upon leaving the EU the leaving state has no further financial obligations to the EU. legally we shouldn't have to pay a penny.

Basically what is happening is the EU wants a 50 billion pound sweetener to continue talks onto the subject of trade.
I just read article 50. At no point that I saw  does it state clearly that no further financial obligations will be owed to the EU. Could you point to the part where you interpret that?
Article 50 wrote:
1. Any Member State may decide to withdraw from the Union in accordance with its own constitutional requirements.

2. A Member State which decides to withdraw shall notify the European Council of its intention. In the light of the guidelines provided by the European Council, the Union shall negotiate and conclude an agreement with that State, setting out the arrangements for its withdrawal, taking account of the framework for its future relationship with the Union. That agreement shall be negotiated in accordance with Article 218(3) of the Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union. It shall be concluded on behalf of the Union by the Council, acting by a qualified majority, after obtaining the consent of the European Parliament.

3. The Treaties shall cease to apply to the State in question from the date of entry into force of the withdrawal agreement or, failing that, two years after the notification referred to in paragraph 2, unless the European Council, in agreement with the Member State concerned, unanimously decides to extend this period.

4. For the purposes of paragraphs 2 and 3, the member of the European Council or of the Council representing the withdrawing Member State shall not participate in the discussions of the European Council or Council or in decisions concerning it.

A qualified majority shall be defined in accordance with Article 238(3)(b) of the Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union.

5. If a State which has withdrawn from the Union asks to rejoin, its request shall be subject to the procedure referred to in Article 49.


Last edited by BarrileteCosmico on Thu Nov 30, 2017 12:30 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post by futbol_bill Wed Nov 29, 2017 10:09 pm

It has been stated and for the most part proven that Russia was behind diversion propaganda in USA, France, Germany and now Spain re Catalans. Basically it seems they are doing anything that can divide public opinion, thereby weakening their arch enemies; Western Europe and USA

I won't be surprised if the same can be said re UK and Brexit. Has anything re this been reported?
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Post by BarrileteCosmico Fri Dec 08, 2017 2:14 pm

Deal agreed to

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-42277040

Tldr

Northern Ireland to have no border and remain under the regulatory rules of the EU, and to uphold good Friday agreement

Citizen rights agreed to

Divorce bill on the range of 40B, to be paid in euros

Transition period agreed to, during which the UK will make budget contributions and be ruled by the European judiciary


... So essentially soft Brexit?
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Post by Unique Fri Dec 08, 2017 4:05 pm

When I think about all the people that have fought and died protecting this country only to end up with the governments we have had since then I feel great shame tbh. They literally gave the country away and then paid to get it back under conditions that suits the eu.
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Post by BarrileteCosmico Fri Dec 08, 2017 10:57 pm

I'm kinda confused as to how the borderless NI border could work. For instance if the EU price for an iphone is 1000 euros and the UK price is 1200 pounds, would a norther irelander simply be able to buy it from ireland and then sell to the rest of the UK with no import taxes at all? The reverse could be just as true. Seems like a lot of arbitrage opportunities are going to be generated here by design.
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Post by CBarca Sat Dec 09, 2017 2:04 pm

@BarrileteCosmico wrote:
@Unique wrote:Britain has paid £500 billion to the EU since we joined. Can anyone tell me what we got for our £500 billion.


Literally the first thing that showed up on google:

"The CBI estimates that the net benefit of EU membership is worth 4-5% of GDP to the UK, or £62bn-£78bn per year."

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/eu-what-has-european-union-done-for-us-david-cameron-brexit-a6850626.html

So let's take the numbers you gave us, and the average benefit of 70B per year.

If the UK paid 500B up front to join the EU and get a benefit of 70B per year then that would be paid back in a little over 7 years, making everything after that profit.

If this were a bond it would have a return of 14% per year, a huge return by all standards.

If the 500B were paid over the entire life of Britain's EU membership (44 years) that would be 11B per year, compared to the benefit of 70B per year I'd say the UK overwhelmingly benefits from it.


@Unique wrote:You think the uk made a profit from the EU.


Just saw this

This is why discussing things with people like Unique is useless. Proven wrong by cold hard facts and his only response is to repeat his own question again. A question which was just answered, instead of giving anything resembling an actual response, an apology, or at least hopefully some sort of refutation. Like, at least claim something stupid like the facts BC is spouting are fake news or something

Instead you just didn't respond. I'm taking it Unique giving into BC and admitting that, at least financially, the UK is better off with the EU
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Post by Unique Sat Dec 09, 2017 2:10 pm

@CBarca wrote:
@BarrileteCosmico wrote:
@Unique wrote:Britain has paid £500 billion to the EU since we joined. Can anyone tell me what we got for our £500 billion.


Literally the first thing that showed up on google:

"The CBI estimates that the net benefit of EU membership is worth 4-5% of GDP to the UK, or £62bn-£78bn per year."

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/eu-what-has-european-union-done-for-us-david-cameron-brexit-a6850626.html

So let's take the numbers you gave us, and the average benefit of 70B per year.

If the UK paid 500B up front to join the EU and get a benefit of 70B per year then that would be paid back in a little over 7 years, making everything after that profit.

If this were a bond it would have a return of 14% per year, a huge return by all standards.

If the 500B were paid over the entire life of Britain's EU membership (44 years) that would be 11B per year, compared to the benefit of 70B per year I'd say the UK overwhelmingly benefits from it.


@Unique wrote:You think the uk made a profit from the EU.


Just saw this

This is why discussing things with people like Unique is useless. Proven wrong by cold hard facts and his only response is to repeat his own question again. A question which was just answered, instead of giving anything resembling an actual response, an apology, or at least hopefully some sort of refutation. Like, at least claim something stupid like the facts BC is spouting are fake news or something

Instead you just didn't respond. I'm taking it Unique giving into BC and admitting that, at least financially, the UK is better off with the EU
so if every member of the eu make money from it where does the money come from:hmm: . the problem with discussing things like this with people like you is they spend to much time trying to look smart and cant see the nose on their face.
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Post by BarrileteCosmico Fri Mar 16, 2018 1:44 pm

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-03-05/u-s-said-to-offer-u-k-worse-open-skies-deal-after-brexit

US offered the UK a worse airspace deal than it had as part of the EU
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Post by BarrileteCosmico Fri Jun 22, 2018 10:56 pm

AirBus and BMW threaten to leave if no-deal Brexit is reached

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-44570931

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-44582831
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Post by RealGunner Sat Jun 23, 2018 5:27 pm

most people predicted that. More will follow since no business will flourish when UK aren't in a custom unions.

Good luck trading with USA who are going to milk us alive.

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Post by VivaStPauli Mon Jun 25, 2018 11:54 am

@BarrileteCosmico wrote:I'm kinda confused as to how the borderless NI border could work. For instance if the EU price for an iphone is 1000 euros and the UK price is 1200 pounds, would a norther irelander simply be able to buy it from ireland and then sell to the rest of the UK with no import taxes at all? The reverse could be just as true. Seems like a lot of arbitrage opportunities are going to be generated here by design.


There is no solution to this. This will tremendously hurt any Brexit government politically. The UK signed several treaties promising open borders between the two Irelands, as well as Northern Ireland and the rest of the UK, yet if the UK leaves the EU, and by extension the Schengen Area, they suddenly have an unpoliced border with the Schengen countries on the Irish island, any and all Europeans can just fly over to Ireland, stroll across to Belfast, and take a ferry over to England, and if there are any meaningful border controls in between of that, the UK is in violation of quite a few international treaties, and is breaking a lot of promises.

Yet they cannot allow that for the obvious reason you point out. You could circumvent tolling by the truckload that way.
The UK is stuck between a rock and a hard place there. Ridiculously, the "easiest" solution would be Irish reunification, and good luck with that.
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Post by Firenze Fri Jun 29, 2018 2:08 am


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Post by Unique Fri Jun 29, 2018 2:48 am

@Firenze wrote:
danny dyer is a twat
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Post by Art Morte Mon Jul 09, 2018 4:18 pm

Davis and Johnson resigned in one day. They - the UK government - should have had these power struggles over soft versus hard Brexit months ago. Better late than never, I suppose.
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Post by BarrileteCosmico Mon Jul 09, 2018 5:13 pm

Theresa May is England's #1 fan right now
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Post by Art Morte Mon Jul 09, 2018 6:21 pm

@BarrileteCosmico wrote:Theresa May is England's #1 fan right now


I hope May and her soft Brexit will survive this, because if soft Brexit cannot gain majority support in Parliament, what type of Brexit can? I think especially Boris's resignation is his attempt to become Prime Minister, hoping that a harder Brexit will now gather enough momentum to topple the government, but I doubt his Brexit vision is any likelier to succeed in a parliament vote than May's.
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Post by RealGunner Mon Jul 09, 2018 8:55 pm

There is no confidence in May within the tories. Rumours are they have enough votes for a leadership change.

if that happens which is very likely now, then general elections follow

if general election follows. Brexit more or less dies.





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Post by Unique Mon Jul 09, 2018 9:03 pm

@RealGunner wrote:There is no confidence in May within the tories. Rumours are they have enough votes for a leadership change.

if that happens which is very likely now, then general elections follow

if general election follows. Brexit more or less dies.





dies like how.
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Post by RealGunner Mon Jul 09, 2018 9:05 pm

scrapped
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Post by Unique Mon Jul 09, 2018 9:09 pm

so they gave people the vote for brexit expecting them to vote stay and because the vote didnt go as planned they are doing everything they can to get out of it. is there a country left in the world where the votes of the people mean something. Laughing
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