Juventus: The Next Cycle

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Post by Warrior Wed Apr 04, 2018 10:53 pm

I wouldn't want Insigne or any member of Napoli's front 3. In fact only players i'd buy from them are Jorginho and Hysaj. Those guys would have an immediate impact at Juve. I expect everyone else to downgrade by next season, i think this year we've seen the apex from Napoli as a team.

Chiesa i'm not so fond of. Hard worker and you can see the intelligence in decision making, but talent wise i don't think he can dominate the league. We are far better off with Dybala, Bernardeschi and to some extent Douglas Costa.

Rather have Sergej Milinkovic-Savic than Verratti for all the reasons i've said too many times.

Donnarumma is a dream signing sadly the sine qua non condition is he must dismiss Mino Raiola.

Rugani-Caldara are the best prospects in Italy. Of course i expect Juve to give this partnership a chance.

My team for next season, it's a decent mix of realism and dreams What a Face

HIGUAIN
BERNA-DYBALA
SERGEJ-JORGINHO-PJANIC
DE SCIGLIO-CHIELLINI-BENATIA-HYSAJ
SZCESZNY


subs
QUAG-SIMEONE
DOUGLAS-PELLEGRINI-MARCHISIO-CUADRADO
SPINAZZOLA-CALDARA-RUGANI-DARMIAN
BUFFON

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Post by Luca Wed Apr 04, 2018 11:06 pm

Pretty good but it's hard to imagine us spending what's required for Sergej and Jorginho (+ Hysaj) with only selling Alex Sandro

Sergej is going for 80-90+ according to their director- so that's basically Sturaro + 80-90M. Jorginho was quoted at 60-65M. Hysaj, because it's Napoli, is probably looking like 30-40M too, I don't much care for this transfer. He's solid but not world class nor will he be, we can do better or get cheaper

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Post by Andrew Wed Apr 04, 2018 11:37 pm

I still love u all

But ill never forget Sad

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Post by Warrior Thu Apr 05, 2018 2:12 am

*sigh*

Never been good at maths especially when it comes to calculate Juve's transfers Laughing However i believe your price tags are too high so here we go one more time...

-IN-

Douglas Costa 40
Sergej 80+Sturaro
Hysaj 25
Jorginho 40
Darmian 10
Simeone 20
Pellegrini 25
Quag 5
Caldara 0
Spinazzola 0
Total 245

-OUT-

Alex Sandro 30
Khedira 20
Sturaro 15
Mandzukic 15
Asamoah 0
Licht 0
Bentancur 20
Pjaca 20
Matiello 5
Kean 10
Total 135

-MISCELLANEOUS-

Usual budget 50
JJ logo income 20
Allianz Stadium income 20
Other 5
Forum tax 10
Total 105

Net spendings 5 millions, best mercato ever :coffee:
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Post by S Thu Apr 05, 2018 8:11 am

I just want to say one thing for those who all want Jorginho..

As long as Allegri here, i dont see Pjanic playing any position other than DLP. He's settled into his new role for a good 1.5 seasons there so i dont see him moving back to an RCM/LCM role/advanced role.

Juventus need a new Vidal or a new Pogba(if possible both) at this point than a Jorginho type midfielder.

But most likely , we are not going to make big investments in midield. We'll get Can and Pellegrini, hope for Bentancur to turn into something special and that'd be it. Infact a very realistic scenario if you ask me.

I see us spending most of our budget on fullbacks next summer even  more so if Sandro's leaving which in case we'd need money for both RB and LB.
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Post by S Thu Apr 05, 2018 8:12 am

I also expect Dybala to stay for another year.
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Post by S Thu Apr 05, 2018 11:02 am

Alright, let me give it a shot at these fantasy lineups :

Out :
Buffon
Asamoah
Lichtsteiner
Mandzukic
Sturaro
Khedira
Dybala
Marchisio

In:
Mirante
Caldara
Spinazzola
Darmian
Pellegrini
Can
Milinkovic-Savic
Anthony Martial

GK : Szczesny, Mirante

DEF : Chiellini, Benatia, Rugani, Caldara, Barzagli

FB : De Sciglio, Darmian, Spinazzola, Alex Sandro

MID : Pjanic, Milinkovic-Savic, Can, Matuidi, Pellegrini, Bentancur

LW/RW : Cuadrado, Costa, Pjaca, Bernardeschi

FW : Higuain, Martial

4-3-3

Szczesny
DeS-Benatia-Chiellini-Sandro
Pjanic
Can----Sergej
Berna-Higuain-Costa


4-3-1-2

Szczesny
DeS-Benatia-Chiellini-Sandro
Pjanic
Sergej--Matuidi
Costa
Martial---Higuain
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Post by Warrior Thu Apr 05, 2018 11:11 am

Jorginho is a better regista because he can actually defend.

Allegri is still searching for a way to get the best out of Pjanic. I think he played him in every possible role since his arrival in 2016. This guy needs at least 1 partner to free him of defensive tasks, and preferably, a second partner to create space for him (delay the pressure). He can't boss a midfield on his own against top opponents.

Sergej-Jorginho-Pjanic is a very complete midfield, sadly too good to be true. Realistically we can get 1 but not both.

It's true that our management have been complacent at times, i choose to believe Beppe/Paratici/Allegri won't commit the same mistakes again. I wish they invest a lot in midfielders. That defeat against Real Madrid has to be a wake up call.
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Post by rincon Thu Apr 05, 2018 11:47 am

I think Dybala is staying. In the heat of the moment I wanted to kill him for getting sent off but honestly it was unfortunate. The dive was embarrassing as hell, the second card was just bad luck. I'd be fine with sacrificing him or Sandro, or both, but I think Sandro is the one to go.

I think we'll stick the current plan and keep the 4-4-2/4-2-3-1 that can be changed easily with our versatile subs.

Higuain - Dybala
Costa - Sergej - Pjanic - Bernardeschi
Spinazzola - Chiellini - Benatia - De Sciglio

Sell Sandro, Mandzkic, Sturaro

Sign Sergej, Pellegrini, 2 fullbacks

Bring back the loans and maybe Kean?
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Post by rincon Thu Apr 05, 2018 11:48 am

If we sell Rugani it will be huge failure form Max.
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Post by S Thu Apr 05, 2018 11:53 am

@rincon wrote:I think Dybala is staying. In the heat of the moment I wanted to kill him for getting sent off but honestly it was unfortunate. The dive was embarrassing as hell, the second card was just bad luck. I'd be fine with sacrificing him or Sandro, or both, but I think Sandro is the one to go.

I think we'll stick the current plan and keep the 4-4-2/4-2-3-1 that can be changed easily with our versatile subs.

Higuain - Dybala
Costa - Sergej - Pjanic - Bernardeschi
Spinazzola - Chiellini - Benatia - De Sciglio

Sell Sandro, Mandzkic, Sturaro

Sign Sergej, Pellegrini, 2 fullbacks

Bring back the loans and maybe Kean?


Agreed. But i dont see us signing Sergej.

Can and Pellegrini and that will be it.
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Post by Luca Mon Apr 09, 2018 9:53 pm

Notes for a 'New' Old Lady

The way out is through

In the aftermath of the Real Madrid debacle, you will hear all kinds of practical solutions. Improve the midfield by buying Milinkovic-Savic! Steal Isco from Madrid! Sell Player X! Ban all rain in Turin within 48 hours of a match!

All of these solutions have their merits (maybe not the last one), but the bigger point is being missed. Whether it’s with Allegri or a new coach, the same players or different ones, Juve have to push forward, not inch their way tentatively — they know by now where the latter approach will get them.

In addition to avoid negative statements on the record or off, there are things Juve can do to break through the final barrier keeping them from the upper echelon of European clubs. All of them involve confronting their current reality, then either correcting a problem or risking their current level of success for greater rewards.

1. Stop caring so much about Serie A. Loath as I am to use a stale Godfather reference, Juve really did Corleone the rest of the Italian league over the past few years, and it’s hard to dismiss the notion that in one or more cases (Higuain, Pjanic), they jumped at the chance to wipe out their domestic competition — even at the expense of Champions League success. After all, it remains to be seen if any combination of the recent acquisitions will do the trick. Juve should focus transfer activity on competing with all of Europe rather than worry about eliminating their domestic enemies, and by default they’ll be poised for continued Serie A dominance.

2. Start playing to win, not to avoid losing. Barcelona and Real Madrid are still trying to score goals with a 5-0 lead in the 90th minute. Meanwhile, Allegri’s Juve are set up to win 1-0 while respecting the formidable threat of ... Crotone. Can you blame Juve for being under-confident against big European teams when they’re trained to worry so much about inferior domestic ones? The “everyone plays their best against Juve” excuse is tired. Juve should stop thinking like Italians and go fully international. Which leads to the next point...

3. Take risks. We know what we get with Sami Khedira: a good performance every third or fourth game. Yet Allegri starts him every single game, even in a fixture-packed month. Meanwhile, he starts Mario Mandzukic whenever the latter is healthy, insisting on using him as a half-effective winger when he has over €100 million in wing talent sitting on his bench. Is he surprised when the first 60 minutes of most games are scoreless, Juve’s attack is predictable and it takes the addition of another winger to break the deadlock? If that’s his plan all along, that’s pretty sadistic. How honorable and satisfying are never-ending slogs to victory? Winning can’t be the only thing that counts if it’s this ugly.

4. Think quality, not strength. It should be obvious by now that grinta will only get Juve so far in Europe. Real Madrid dominated on Tuesday, but did they seem especially tough? Their midfield was packed with skill players. Even their defenders are clutch scorers. Meanwhile, Allegri fielded one of our slowest defenders (Andrea Barzagli), and in the absence of Pjanic left the only midfielder with any attacking spark on the bench (Claudio Marchisio).

5. Play Marchisio! Seriously. There’s enough playing time for everyone.

6. Give the kids a chance. The media and the club itself have perpetuated the idea that only a certain player is “Juve material,” but it’s gotten to the point where the weight of the shirt threatens to crush even the most talented younger players, while prospects on loan or in Juve’s sights are either afraid to prematurely join or skeptical of getting enough playing time if they do. There is enough potential experience to go round, which is why it’s been painful to see Federico Bernadeschi or Douglas Costa or Daniele Rugani sitting on the bench for large stretches while Juve struggle with the same tactical problems each week.

7. Trust the defense enough to attack. At their sharpest, Juve’s defenders are capable of matching up with those of any side, anywhere. Overcompensating with rugged midfielders or sitting back in support is crucial in certain stretches of the game, but it’s ineffective as a primary strategy from kickoff (not to mention mildly insulting to such great defenders). Risk trouble rather than openly inviting it in over and over (see No. 2).

8. Play Marchisio! It bears repeating. Plus, the number-name matchup seemed like a nice touch.

https://www.blackwhitereadallover.com/2018/4/6/17203962/juventus-max-allegri-2018-serie-a-champions-league

Very good read, Tom may have ghost wrote most of this to be honest and he's not wrong.

I think it echoes a lot of what we have been saying and I don't really see a point I don't agree with

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Post by Warrior Mon Apr 09, 2018 10:05 pm

Yes it's a great post by "Tom"

One thing i particularly disliked was playing Bentancur in Champions League, just to make sure Marchisio was well-rested for Benevento.
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Post by Luca Mon Apr 09, 2018 10:11 pm

That feeling when Matuidi-Marchisio-Pjanic* get the nod away to Benevento and against Real Madrid you get Khedira-Bentancur ffs Proud

*obviously wasn't possible against Real


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Post by rincon Thu Apr 12, 2018 8:37 am

When asked about the 4-3-3, Allegri said that the right system depends on each again and that with Dybala you need another striker but that he also at times plays form the right. Said that it gives you something else going forward but makes it difficult to defend.

It seems like this gives Allegri all sorts of headaches.
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Post by rincon Thu Apr 12, 2018 9:42 am

Thinking about our recent games and players I think we could do with a system like Atalanta's.

We are getting a great CB who is used to playing in the center of a 3 man defense and a LWB who excels at going forward. We also have Cuadrado who can be a great RWB. It may allow us to work with our forwards without sacrificing defense while packing the middle.

Higuain
X1 - Dybala
Spinazzola - X2 - Pjanic - Cuadrado
Chiellini - Caldara - Benatia
Szczesny

X1: Mandzukic, Costa, Bernardeschi, midfielder
X2: someone competent

That besides the usual 4-4-2
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Post by Andrew Sat Apr 28, 2018 8:40 pm

The end of an era.

The end of the post Calciopoli era. We came close to winning it all twice but unfortunatelly couldn’t.

I feel unsure how will the next day be. How will Juventus be post old guard + Allegri.

Will we try to grow to an even bigger club or will the progress stall? We are entering to a transitional phase and I can only hope that we evolve to something bigger once it’s finished.

Anyhow only time will tell.

Fino alla Fine

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Post by Andrew Sat Apr 28, 2018 8:51 pm

If I knew I had such powers I would have done the same against Madrid FFS

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Post by salmano9 Sun Apr 29, 2018 2:44 am

Keep Allegri. I don't want another coach. Allegri is the only person who can get us anywhere further, apart from Ancelloti (in my opinion). Winning 3 scudetti, 2 cups, reaching 2 CL finals. He knows the squad best and Napoli are having a great season overall, so even if we don't win the scudetto this season, Allegri is still doing a great job. If we get a new inexperienced coach like Inzaghi (won nothing in his managerial career), we are putting ourselves in a huge risk. At least with Allegri, we guarantee that the squad is competing in all fronts until mid-March. We have to get a new box-to-box midfielder, because Matuidi is only a physical player without any technical abilities... He can't do much when the ball is between his feet.
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Post by Luca Wed May 30, 2018 1:36 am

Yesterday Italy started without a single Juve player

Problem or no?

For me, it's an unthinkable reality to see Italy without a Juve player on the field at any point of time. Does Italy's lowest point only coincidentally line up with a Juventus that lacks home grown talent? Are we the cause or the effect of a weak national team?

I think we are already addressing this. Our motto has been to prioritize both signings from Serie A and talented Italian players- an important distinction is not to endorse signing Italian players for the sake of signing Italian players but to prioritize signing the most talented Italian players like Bernardeschi, should they be a player that will improve us. It is not a model unlike either Barcelona or Real, who are always well represented with Spain or Bayern and Germany.

Its quite simple to see that this is a strategy for us in both the short and long term

Last summer we invested heavily into Bernardeschi and added De Sciglio

This summer:
-Recall of Spinazzola and Caldara (2)
-Perin (I think will join)
-Darmian (will join)

And we are linked with some others

Anyways, I've already shared my stance on this before. I am in favour of signing talented Italian players should they improve us. I do not want to replace players like Pjanic with someone like Pellegrini because that would not improve us (poor example but you get the idea).

Hopefully we continue this trend with a midfielder like Barella or Pellegrini or explore the possibility of Mandragora.

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Post by Warrior Wed May 30, 2018 2:10 am

This generation of italian footballers is underwhelming, given that, i think Juve has done its homeworks.

Bernardeschi, Rugani, Caldara, Spinazzola, Mandragora... and maybe Pellegrini, Perin, Barella in a near future

We have signed the best out of what was available. Milan have some good italian too (Conti, Gigio, Romagnoli, Calabria)... but that's it and that's all. Only Chiesa remains and he ain't Juve level.
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Post by S Wed May 30, 2018 7:46 am

Its just Mancini's first game afterall.

In due time, you'd have all of Bernardeschi, Rugani, Caldara, Darmian(even maybe De Sciglio) being regulars for Italy and there's probably more to come as well depending on who we sign.
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Post by juvealbanian Wed May 30, 2018 7:58 am

Exactly. It was just Mancini's first friendly and like any new coach he would like to experiment with other players and see what options he can get.
Mancini will surely add more juventus players as we already have some of the top prospects of Italy's new generation like Caldara,Bernardeschi,Rugani,Spinazzola & ofc Sturaro...

We have done a good job picking what's best in Italy.There are other interesting options like Pellegrini , Barella , Cristante etc but we must carefully choose what we get.There are tons of Destro's and Cerci's for every Verrati or Insigne the italian football has produced lately.
We either get the very best of italians like we have done in the past (with some solid players for rotation/backup) or if there aren't any good players available we should simply go elsewhere.We shouldn't lower or damage the overall quality of the team just for the sake of the Azzurri.
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Post by rincon Wed May 30, 2018 8:21 am

Yep its just the first friendly and our players were injured. We got some of the good players so they will be there with time (and fitness). Bernardeschi would have started on the right if he wasn't injured. His competition should be 4-years-younger Chiesa, Politano and Verdi. So he'll be there.

Same for our defenders.

Mancini said that different players will play vs France on Friday. Younger players. So there's all to decide for his cycle still.

The U21 started a new cycle as well. Drew 1-1 vs France in their first game (still under Di Biagio).

Francia (4-1-4-1): Bernardini; Rosier, Gelin, Gnagnon, Niakhaté; Tousart; Bamba, Nkunku; Aouar, Grandsir; Dembélé.

Italia(4-3-3): Montipò; Calabria, Mancini, Luperto, Dimarco; Valzania, Locatelli, Murgia; Verde, Bonazzoli, Parigini

We have none of those players which is unusual. But since the cycle just started I imagine that Juve will start signing the ones who start to shine and loan around like we've been doing to end up with Caldara, Rugani and Bernardeschi.
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Post by S Wed May 30, 2018 8:31 am

Francia (4-1-4-1): Bernardini; Rosier, Gelin, Gnagnon, Niakhaté; Tousart; Bamba, Nkunku; Aouar, Grandsir; Dembélé.

Legit sounds like an Ivory Coast starting XI (:
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Post by rincon Thu Sep 06, 2018 11:55 am

^Since the discussion had been about Italy starting with no Juve players in that friendly under Mancini, I'll post here.

The first official game is tomorrow vs Poland. 3 Juventini are supposed to start.

Donnarumma; Criscito, Chiellini, Bonucci, Zappacosta; Pellegrini, Jorginho, Benassi; Insigne, Balotelli, Bernardeschi

Note Mandragora was instead called up to U21 because he was suspended due to blasphemy during a match.
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