Juventus: The Next Cycle

I can agree with both posts since they have great arguments, and reality proves you right. "Living in Allegri's world" particularly touched my heart

My fear is when Max holds Dybala/Bernardeschi/Marchisio from having an important role for too long. He has a tendency these last 2 seasons of making adjustments a couple of weeks too late. The double pivot debate was an example.

Wingzukic works sometimes, of course, yet if we stick to it i can see us dropping points. Against catenaccio it is mostly useless.

I can agree with that brother. All I'm doing is lending an opinion and maybe a different perspective to explain things as they are, sometimes it is necessary. I can guarantee if we drew 0-0 or even 1-1 with Roma, the atmosphere and opinions over Allegri, Mandzukic, Cuadrado, whomever, would've been different, just like they were against Inter. But I maintain, against Inter, we played an excellent match that we should have won. Against Roma, we struggled too, and by that, I mean, we missed some very good chances.

This is just how it goes. No goals conceded in 8 games- which included Napoli, Inter, Roma, Barcelona... this is very good, from our start of the season, we probably wouldn't have thought it was possible. The results are as good as they have ever been, despite yet again, re-shuffling our deck this season, already changing formation and transitioning from key personnel to new, key personnel.

I can't imagine Juve without Mandzukic currently. This is what EDF said prior to the match :

“[Paulo] Dybala is a champion, so it’d be easy to say him but I’ll say [Mario] Mandzukic. He’s a player who destroys the balance of a team that is defending, because of his physical characteristics.”

Most of our old guard should go. Its time.

Time to create a new spine at Juventus.

SELL EVERYONE

Luca, brother, isnt that the policy we are already following?

Andrew wrote:Luca, brother, isnt that the policy we are already following?

Well, we suck at that too then

S wrote:Most of our old guard should go. Its time.

Time to create a new spine at Juventus.

Its time.

Everyone called the transition, lets see a new cycle start and how good a new Juve is.

Seriously now, we need a major overhaul.

We need Buffon to retire and buy a back up to Szczesny

Barzagli to retire and Caldara to take his place

Lichtsteiner to go and buy a proper right back

If Alex Sandro continues this shit show then sell him, bring back Spinazzola and another quality left back to fill in for Asamoah

Sturaro, Khedira should gtfo asap. Matuidi relegated to bench. Buy 2 top quality midfielders to compliment Pjanic

Sell Mandzukic and buy a proper CF backup to Higuain who has been playing non stop

Costa/Berna & Cuadrado/Pjaca are good enough for wingers.

And last, find wtf to do with Dybala.

Does Allegri continue after 4 seasons or is he just tired and we need fresh ideas?

Can't fault Allegri tonight but I do think it may be time but it also depends on who is next up. It's very easy to downgrade from Allegri, extremely difficult to find someone better

I'm not blaming Allegri at all. I'm just wondering if its also time for a change in coaching since I believe (and I think we all agree) that the team is changing. Only thing I can blame on Allegri is not playing Marchisio more, other than that he is pretty impeccable and part of Juve's history.

I'm not sure what my view on this is. On one hand I think he is the best coach in the world for us. On the other hand motivation at top level is key and after 4 years and a few harsh disappointments of almost winning it all take a toll.

It's a very interesting question. I didn't mean to imply you were blaming Allegri, I was just thinking out loud.

While he may lack the motivation to continue after 4 seasons, we are positioned to be a very new looking team. So, there will be many new parts and challenges to overcome

Of managers potentially available, there are some great names:

-Conte: I don't want him back under any circumstances
-Ancelotti: I would absolutely welcome it but he is probably not the right one for right now if we are transitioning to a younger team
-Simo Inzaghi: my pick of the list. Lazio plays great stuff, he's young, he has energy

I think I would still remain with Allegri however

It's hard to get a sense of who's good enough when the league competition isn't world class...  and even if they are good enough, they don't need to be at their best for the league level so they aren't ready against the european elite.

sportsczy wrote:It's hard to get a sense of who's good enough when the league competition isn't world class...  and even if they are good enough, they don't need to be at their best for the league level so they aren't ready against the european elite.

I don't really believe that it's a quality of domestic league thing. There is far too much experience in this team for that and we do have a lot of CL experience within the group. While I agree that the step up in quality between Serie A to the CL is night and day, we've done well enough in these past few seasons to understand the difference and usually rise to the occasion. It's safe to say that Real Madrid are on a completely different level than us right now but our performance was just pitiful, much of it being self-inflicted wounds but a lot of it also being the difference in class between the two teams.

Our midfield, even with Pjanic, just gets out of these games far too easily. So, we go through the wings, the problem being we have Khedira and Higuain in the middle. One being slow, the other useless in the air. So, we end up relying on Dybala, and tonight is a prime example of why that doesn't work, a great talent but not there, probably won't ever be the guy to dominate a CL game against a top team- for Juve or any other club.

Ancelotti is not our man.

I think Simone Inzaghi is our next manager, whenever it may be.

The fact that we aren't using Dybala where we should doesn't mean thats all he got.
He's not fast or strong and clearly doesn't have the passing vision of a playmaker or trequartista.
I've said it million times.

If he goes to another top team and actually plays where he's more comfortable you'll see he is a WC player and could make a difference in CHL as well.

Where is Dybala more comfortable? he does whatever he wants on the field. He is free.

You also think there's some unreal difference between playing as a trequartista and playing as a forward off of a #9, it's the exact same thing

Today he could do whatever he wanted to do, he was a forward in a 4-4-2 playing off of Higuain. If you can't play there at your best and you wear #10 for Juventus, it's time to re-think your life

We legitimately cannot play through Dybala anymore than we did today

He's not good enough to be a Messi (Not talking about quality obviously) type focal point. You can't play through somebody who has such an inconsistent first touch and sloppy passes.

Hell the likes of Di Natale were better equipped to play the 'pass to me every time' game. We need midfielders that you can play through.

Dybala might want to try getting some consistency behind him before deciding he's too big for this particular club. 2 games against Madrid and he's been a liability twice.

The big hole in the midfield is the main issue. It downgrades everyone else in the team. Fix that problem and all our players will suddenly become better.

The "next cycle" starts with buying a top class CM. Not B+, top class.
- We already have Bernardeschi, Dybala, Pjanic, Rugani, Caldara, De Sciglio and Spinazzola as identified members of the "new Juve"
- Higuain, Cuadrado, Chiellini, Marchisio, Douglas Costa, Benatia, Matuidi albeit getting old are still useful and i appreciate to have veterans
- Buffon as a sub
- the rest we must waive them, not good enough, the history museum needs to close

a LOT of work for Marotta
Honestly i was blind for not seeing how this squad lived on borrowed time, once our top class CM is found, the next stage of transition is to replace the old guard with proven players, not with bargains.

i don't blame Beppe or Allegri for being a bit complacent, i don't even want them to admit their wrongs... as long as i see changes this summer. Because Juventus is heading str8 in the wall if the approach doesn't change.

Only Tom gets my idea.

Dybala isn't particulary strong or fast on long distances.Not energetic to drop too deep like he does somentimes.He should stay closer to the opponent's box that's what I mean.
His best qualities are his amazing left foot, his movements and short bursts of speed on tight spaces and lately his free kicks.
Lets say compared to Del Piero he doesn't yet have the brain to become a playmaking force behind the striker like Alex was.Maybe it will come with age but right now he doesn't have it and his first touch is strangely incostistent which makes another point against him playing as a creative midfielder at times during the game.

So we need a more creative midfield or someone behind Dybala and Higuain who has great technique and an eye for the final pass.
Isco type or you name it.But to me Dybala should only stay closer to the box and making cut-ins from the right.Even as a lone striker backed by Vazquez he did superb at a far inferior team like Palermo.

Barca, Madrid, and Bayern are all a class above us.

Last night proved to me exactly why, in my eyes, De Sciglio cant be considered a long term option. Absolute schoolboy defending like he's playing Verona or something. He's a good solid player who'd put good defensive shifts but he wont go beyond that. There's  a certain level with him which he wont pass.  

If Sandro is so hell bent on leaving, ideal case is we use the money to reinforce both fullback positions.

Warrior wrote:Buffon as a sub

He should retire for his own good as should Barzagli unless he's happy being a 6th choice playing poverty minutes

We are not going to come anywhere close to winning it next season so its really pointless having him around still as an active player

It would be better if he assumes a role within the club. An administrative or a coaching role.

Agreed. The issue with Barzagli, Buffon or even Lichtsteiner as subs is eventually they’ll play or want to play. There will always be an inclination to go with either or both of them for some sort of safe approach to a match and we need to get as far away from this as possible