The belief that Guardiola is a WC coach needs to cease to exist

The Demon of Carthage wrote:

I think the fact that he had a massive warchest and an entire window to do his shopping should be taken into account when assessing his tenure at City. And while I believe it's still early to draw conclusions, I still think he should be blamed for not strengthening his squad properly.

It's true, he doesn't have a Messi at City, but neither does Conte or Klopp. The fact that those guys are doing slightly better, having spent much less should be proof that Guardiola can't complain about the massive drop in quality he's having with his current team, and for which he's entirely responsible btw.

Onyx wrote:World class coaches can lose games too.

The Demon of Carthage wrote:]

However now, and even though I still consider him to be WC, I believe he's got only himself to blame and he shouldn't be excused for not doing as well as his colleagues.

I think the fact that he had a massive warchest and an entire window to do his shopping should be taken into account when assessing his tenure at City. And while I believe it's still early to draw conclusions, I still think he should be blamed for not strengthening his squad properly.

It's true, he doesn't have a Messi at City, but neither does Conte or Klopp. The fact that those guys are doing slightly better, having spent much less should be proof that Guardiola can't complain about the massive drop in quality he's having with his current team, and for which he's entirely responsible btw.

Harmonica wrote:He's not Coachessi class who has managed 4 major finals after him, which 3 with 3rd rate team, but he's world level coach meaning he can coach Top 5 teams in Top 5 leagues. Thats about it.

Hapless_Hans wrote:Ok I'm going to be absolutely serious for once, no tongue in cheek, no exaggeration, no banter, just plain stating what's up.

Then I'll be done with this neverending nonsense, because as a matter of fact I actually, for reasons that should be obvious, am enjoying Pep's relative troubles at City probably more than the next guy.

I'm going to say this as clearly as possible:

It's just plainly, evidently silly to question whether Pep is a WC coach, I'm not going to start bothering to find the apt expression for stuff like labeling a 'fraud', or 'the fraud of the century'.
That's it. Silly.

This is a guy who is not 50 years yet, has won the CL twice, has won the respective league in every but one season he's coached, broken countless records, has the second highest trophy density in football history after *bleep* Bob Paisley or something, and has done all that with a highly visible, clearly defined impact on the way his teams play.
Before you start coming with "but, but, but", it's just really important to accept this reality.
No matter whether you like him, whether you like his football, where exactly you place him in relation to other managers.
If this doesn't classify someone as a 'WC coach', you have a completely silly and useless definition of the term.

The guy is quite simply an amazing coach. He has an imprint on his teams, he is successful with it, it's attractive football. He has had huge influence on football in recent years, as can be seen in thread like this. There's absolutely nothing wrong with any of that.
If you can't, apart from banter or rooting against him, enjoy his work, it's actually your loss.

You could argue whether he's a better coach than 'manager' (thread used 'coach'), you could analyse what may be his weaknesses, but it's disingenuous to do so whithout acknowledging his obvious strentgh.

So people who flat out deny Pep is simply an amazing coach are either purposefully obtuse, actually stupid, resentful, or disingenuous.
Mostly I find posts in this forum fall in the letter category.

People flat out apply other expectation to Pep, and move the goalposts of the discussion if their judgements collide with reality.

That being said, points made by @Demon of Cabbage do stand.
There are no excuses for Pep, and what Conte and Klopp are doing at the moment can be counted as more impressive.
Pep had loads to spend, player quality is not an excuse. Then again why would he even need an excuse? Why´?

Because obviously, people rating Conte and Klopp aren't bothered that Conte is a CL flop so far and that Klopp actually had BVB on a relegation spot in midseason, in Bundesliga.

And I'm not saying they should be bothered, I think both Klopp and Conte are amazing too.
Point in case is just, Pep is a 'fraud' when he falls to 5th after winning the 6 opening matches of his first season at club and league.
Disingenous, resentful, or obtuse.

So long kids.

Katy Perry wrote:
See,  what I can't stand about Guardiola and his fans is the arrogance.

The same arrogance Guardiola showed when he said that trees will burn in their return leg vs Real before getting his ass whooped (ironically, it's the same arrogance his team showed exactly 20 years ago as a player vs Milan, already celebrating the win before getting his ass whooped in the same resounding way).

The same arrogance after which he says his victorious opponent didn't play football/didn't deserve to win.

The same arrogance when he treated Ibra like a fiat.

The same arrogance when he moved one of the finest and most decorated fullbacks of all time in Lahm to midfield.

That same arrogance seems to be passed to his fanboys. Apparently the subjective belief that he plays beautiful and attractive football and how he "left an imprint on football" is a inconfutable fact.

I personally can't stand Guardiola's teams. It's like watching paint dry.

I personally think his possession playstyle aka choke the life out of you is the most boring and vile playstyle there could be. It's actually as much defensive as playing catenaccio if you think about it
But apparently anyone having a different opinion is stupid and has a Rosemary Kenedy after lobotomy IQ or is 'resentful'. For what I'll never know.

You're the one moving the goalposts. I accept the reality that he won 2 CLs and he was WC almost one decade ago.
At the same time tho, I vigorously refute the assertion that he's WC in this day and age.

I don't give a flying *bleep* about whatever his winrate record is. 95% of the games he won happened because his team was 100x times superior and could have literally won without a coach.

Yes, 95% of his wins in  would have happened if his team was handicapped to the point that if they had no instructions, no inputs, no supervision from a coach, contrary to their opponents, they would have won the same.

And I'm not saying it because he legit took a team that ended up 25 points above the second (it was 91 to 66 in Jupp's last year, I was wrong in my opening) and took their best players, nope.
I'm saying this because this very thing, this very scenario happened in 12/13, when his Barcelona squad won a league with Tito 5000 miles away treating his cancer, and actually did better than any Pep's season points wise.

What I give a *bleep* on the other hand, is how minimal and insignificant, if not deleterious, his "world class" contributions have been whenever he's facing a team of the same caliber, and how constantly he gets squashed in those kind of games. Like in this whole season with City and the CL knock-out games before. Or how in those big games he succeeded, how heavily he needed Ovrebo's, de Bleecker, Stark, etc help to win those 2 CLs almost a decade ago.

jibers wrote:
So COnte is a super coach now? What happened that he was consistently flopping at Juvein the cl saying the squad was not good enough and then Count MAx won a double and reached a cl final in his first season. Is Count Max a far superior coach?