English Premier League '16-'17 Discussion - Part 5

Don't call me James wrote:

Unique wrote:I think james gets a bit over enthusiastic sometimes. nothing wrong with that tbh. but a old git like me knows you never count your chickens before they hatch

You are an old git and don't speak for me.

Firenze wrote:so Matip is the best CB in the league..but isn't in an environment to showcase it? and we should disregard other top CB's because they are

He's already showcasing it.

I never said he's not in an environment to showcase it.

I said any Tom Dick and Harry would look world class in Spurs defense. It would take something special to look amazing at Liverpool and that's exactly what he's doing, looking amazing.

Lovren looked amazing in a Pochetinno defense with 2 DMs in Morgan and Wanyama protecting him

so your saying is any fool can defend well under pochetinno but top of the range defenders cant defend well under klopp.

I wouldn't call any of them world class, Its an overused word. The era of defending is over. All these guys are just a good bunch of defenders in a shit pool to choose from.

If someone told me any of these guys made a mistake that cost their team a game, I wouldn't be surprised.

Nishankly wrote:I wouldn't call any of them world class, Its an overused word. The era of defending is over. All these guys are just a good bunch of defenders in a shit pool to choose from.

If someone told me any of these guys made a mistake that cost their team a game, I wouldn't be surprised.

is there anymore straws left in the world for james to clutch . lets talk sense here. if matip was super world class and on a free Liverpool would not have signed him. I like matip he is far better than any thing we had but come on now. james is getting silly now. and people wonder why Liverpool fans get ripped to shit.

RealGunner wrote:

BREAKING: Antonio Conte to Jose Mourinho pic.twitter.com/HB1Qq5KlD4

— SPORF (@Sporf) October 23, 2016

So apt

Whats Cesc doing in there?

Should be Cahill, Matic or Kante.

Don't call me James wrote:Yeah it's all fun and games lol troll etc.

But talking about Spurs defense, please look at the context of your argument.

You need to realize how Spurs play before you praise their defenders individually.

They definitely deserve some praise but it's not very hard for defenders to look good in a system they employ.

2 DM's in Dier and Wanyama. Both of them are probably the most hardcore specialized DM destroyers in the league and they are built like tanks. Think about it for a second they play every game with TWO DMs covering their defenders.

Then they have arguably the best keeper in the league (at worst top 3) and one of the best in the world.

Then look at their fullbacks. Powerhouse athletic fullbacks who never stop running.

And on top of all this they employ a hardcore pressing system that the whole team defends collectively.

You put John Stones in that defense and he will look like a world beater.

Alderweireled and Vertonghen are very good individually but they are not any better than Matip or Mustafi or even Koscielny. They are helped majorly in the defense they play.

And unlike Matip or Mustafi or Koscielny, Alderweireled and Vertonghen have been playing together in a partnership since they were 15 years old. Nobody else has this advantage. They have just met their defensive partners and have played a total of 9 games together.

Don't bring the clean sheet argument when we are talking about individual defending ffs. Liverpool struggle to keep clean sheets because of other problems not because of Matip.

I feel like you're underselling them. You claim that they are protected by 2 DMs but this is not true. Dier is now playing mostly as 3rd choice CB. Alli (an AM) usually plays as the other CM, or Dembele who is also an attacking leaning player (last season he was used a lot on the wings).

I agree that they benefit from the high pressing game, but at the same time they run more risks because of the high line. We're not talking about a rigid 442 team here that sits back and nearly everyone could play in.

And Rose and Walker may be athletic powerhouses... but that's basically the only thing going for them. IMO they're both weak links for Spurs.

Clearly if Spurs were able to go from leakiest defense in the league to most solid the system has a huge part to play, but both Vert and Ald have a huge part to play in that. It can't be written off as part of the system.

Rose is a straight up scrub, the amount of times bournemouth beat him with kick and run football was laughable.

Vert and Alder are immense together, but their system is their greatest strength.

Rose is the weakest link in that Spurs teams followed by their CM's who don't create enough, They do amazingly well in defense and just about enough in attack.

They signed Ben Davies and Dier( Who turned out to be a better DM) to give competition to Rose, But they've just settled with him for the past 2 years lol

Rose hasn't had the greatest of starts this season. Inconsistent really. He's actually a half decent player though. I would upgrade him if better LB's were around that Tottenham could get, but that's not really the case. He's good enough.

Dier and Wanyama don't play together in mid. They did at the start for a game or two but Poch didn't like it. Ever since then it's Alli or Dembele (Dembele if fit).

Walker and Rose are defensively frail if anything.

The only thing that really supports James argument is that Spurs press well as a unit (and even then, Poch's pressing has never been up to the standard of a Pep or Simeone when his teams want to press).

Anyway, Alderweireld is immense and I think has been the best CB in the league since coming last year.

Ilori though...

My man Hames knocking out people left and right ffs
Also if Matip gets himself injured or hits a bad patch, someone is gonna go through a sex drought for six months.

What Hames saying is not off by much tbh. Their defense was shit until he came in to the fold. There must be a bearing. And liverpool do play an open gun ho game, where its harder for a defender comparatively. Unless you arent good enough you cant survive in such a system.

How good was he btw before he joined Pool? I honestly havent seen him play before this. And why no one else went for him considering he is only 25? I btw thought the lad was way older. Surprised to find out he is only 25.

I've had to 'un-retire' this account just based on what I've just read, because no ones yet to properly call the person out.

Don't call me James wrote:2 DM's in Dier and Wanyama. Both of them are probably the most hardcore specialized DM destroyers in the league and they are built like tanks. Think about it for a second they play every game with TWO DMs covering their defenders.

Spurs have yet to play a minute, let alone game with both Dier and Wanyama on the pitch as a DM pair. In fact most of the time, the system played doesn't allow for a 2nd DM (4-1-4-1). I also find it hard to believe that you're trying to make a case for either Alli, Dembele or Sissoko to be DMs, because everyone can see that they're simply not. I'm pretty sure you've just made this whole argument up in order to solidify your case, because we haven't used 2 DMs since AVB.

Don't call me James wrote:Then look at their fullbacks. Powerhouse athletic fullbacks who never stop running.

I don't understand. How does this put less pressure on the CBs? The reason they "never stop running" might have something to do with them being a huge part in offence in a system that you obviously have little knowledge in.

Don't call me James wrote:And on top of all this they employ a hardcore pressing system that the whole team defends collectively.

I have no idea how you're going to make a case for Spurs, but not Liverpool here. In order for a high pressing game to work, the CB's have to push up high exposing themselves to long balls over the top and quick counter attacking football. A good example of a system that would allow for less pressure on the CBs would be LVG's United to which was made to keep an organised compact shape, sacrificing the ability to win the ball higher up the field, but allowing for better structure.

Christ I don't even care about who's the best CB in the league, give it to Koscielny or Matip for all I care, but almost all the points you made were rubbish. You obviously A.) Don't watch Tottenham enough to be able to properly critique their system or B.) Made up "facts" in order to support your bias.

I just continue to fail to understand what is the upside of Hames' behaviour. What does he think makes sense about his mindless hyping and exaggerating?
I don't really get it, at least not in this relentlessness.

I mean it's funny and all, (could as well say it's *bleep* annoying and tedious but Hames is a great guy so we'll treat it as funny) but at some level surely he wants us to take him somewhat serious?
And he wants his posts to have some kind of instance of being good/right/worthwile at some point?

So why this constant hyperbole that is so obvious?
He's never going to be right about anything, and what's more, he'll end up always on the losing side, as for the side he roots for.

I don't get it.

I mean think about it, even if Matip turns out, let's say, the 3rd best CB in the league, or among the best, or whatever, Hames will still have been wrong and the reality will be worse for him than what he claimed?
And so on in every other department.

If Liverpool finish 2nd, they will have finished worse than what Hames kept proclaiming loudly and overconfidently so that noone could miss it..

I don't get it.

Finishing 2nd, Matip one of the top CBs could be something to be proud of or boast about - but Hames will have to shut up because he's been saying all this stupid stuff all the time.

And I get that you can play a long game with stuff like that, so that you can have a triumphant moment when one of your more improbable predictions come true. And I get that you can take a few hits of wrong prediction aiming for that improbable triumph.
But Hames' stuff is so clearly improbable that he'll never, NEVER, be right about anything? I mean we know it, surely he knows it too. He'll just never have any reward, any triumph.
Where's the upside?

Puzzling.

Please continue.

Ouch.

Onions wrote:

Don't call me James wrote:2 DM's in Dier and Wanyama. Both of them are probably the most hardcore specialized DM destroyers in the league and they are built like tanks. Think about it for a second they play every game with TWO DMs covering their defenders.

Spurs have yet to play a minute, let alone game with both Dier and Wanyama on the pitch as a DM pair. In fact most of the time, the system played doesn't allow for a 2nd DM (4-1-4-1). I also find it hard to believe that you're trying to make a case for either Alli, Dembele or Sissoko to be DMs, because everyone can see that they're simply not. I'm pretty sure you've just made this whole argument up in order to solidify your case, because we haven't used 2 DMs since AVB.

It's 4am and I have work in the work in the morning so this is the only part that I'm going to respond tonight.

Matchday 1: Spurs vs Everton


Matchday 2: Spurs vs Palace


Matchday 3: Spurs vs Liverpool


Matchday 4: Spurs vs Stoke


Matchday 5: Spurs vs Sunderland

Dier playing CB because Rose was out. So Dembele who is practically a tank of CM/DM himself playing next to Wanyama.

Dier got injured so missed Matchday 6. Came off the bench because lacking match fitness for Round 7 and 8.

Matchday 9: Spurs vs Bournemouth

Dier playing CB because Alderweireld is injured. So Dembele who is practically a tank of CM/DM himself playing next to Wanyama.




So tell me did I make it up or did YOU make it up?



Should have stayed retired you thick *bleep*.

First I want an apology from Onion.

And I also want an apology from two idiots who upvoted his post.

You know I love you Hames right?

I really do

Spoiler:

Giggs do have a point. Just look at those pics. With Zlatan it is somewhat understandable. We all know he doesnt give a flying fk about the club and came to obviously tick the EPL box in his career and cos of that fat paycheck. But ddg?
You cant smile and exchange greetings after you have picked up the ball 4 times out of your post in a game. Even one of the goal they scored was his direct fault.

They know however bad they play they will be getting their millions.  

At least show  some respect for the fans who were outsinging the chelsea fans for the last 10 mins of the game even when we were getting battered down on the pitch. Dont mock their sentiments by being all jolly and laid back after you got a pasting. I understand some of them are NT teammates and everything but, even still.
And apparently they didnt applaud the away fans too after the game. Shameful to say the very least.

Modern footballers. A bunch of mercenaries.

firstly I want to apologize Don't call me James, I forgot Dembele's suspension at the start of the year. Secondly I'd like to say goodbye, because I'm never coming back to GL again due to embarrassment .

I'll put it like this.

I barely have watched any Spurs this season so I have no clue about the actual formation they played and whether the midfielders played as DMs or CAMs or what have you.

But based on experience, I'm going to go with Onion. Because the experience is that Hames is always wrong.

That's the problem with always being wrong, people won't take you seriously no matter what you say.

Hames has long lost any kind of credibility what with the constant BS.

Glory wrote:

Spoiler:

Giggs do have a point. Just look at those pics. With Zlatan it is somewhat understandable. We all know he doesnt give a flying fk about the club and came to obviously tick the EPL box in his career and cos of that fat paycheck. But ddg?
You cant smile and exchange greetings after you have picked up the ball 4 times out of your post in a game. Even one of the goal they scored was his direct fault.

They know however bad they play they will be getting their millions.

At least show some respect for the fans who were outsinging the chelsea fans for the last 10 mins of the game even when we were getting battered down on the pitch. Dont mock their sentiments by being all jolly and laid back after you got a pasting. I understand some of them are NT teammates and everything but, even still.
And apparently they didnt applaud the away fans too after the game. Shameful to say the very least.

Modern footballers. A bunch of mercenaries.

Yawn.

Stop blaming your players. Di Maria was a mercenary too and too much pussy mentality for the PL and United. Schweinsteiger washed up and lost his legs. Rooney is a power crazy maniac who has the club as hostage.
Fellaini, Young, Valencia are scrubs and deadwood who need to be shipped off in the coming summer window 2014. And 2015.

The players are not the problem. Your club is. Doing everything wrong, in terms of consistency of coaching recruitment and squad development, that you can do wrong.
The players are just doing their best.

Of course, when they don't perform to their best, they're still getting more money from your clueless board than they could have gotten anywhere else

Onions wrote:firstly I want to apologize Don't call me James, I forgot Dembele's suspension at the start of the year. Secondly I'd like to say goodbye, because I'm never coming back to GL again due to embarrassment .

Were you even there in GL to say 'I am not coming back'.

Anyway dont take any harsh decisions. Just saying. We (spurs fans) are already quite short on number. We need you come March when Pool fans will be seemingly taking over GL.

McAgger is on fire this year, really needs a title push

Have you guys read/heard the story of the lad who cried wolf?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=heasnJY8HMM

Hapless_Hans wrote:

Glory wrote:

Spoiler:

Giggs do have a point. Just look at those pics. With Zlatan it is somewhat understandable. We all know he doesnt give a flying fk about the club and came to obviously tick the EPL box in his career and cos of that fat paycheck. But ddg?
You cant smile and exchange greetings after you have picked up the ball 4 times out of your post in a game. Even one of the goal they scored was his direct fault.

They know however bad they play they will be getting their millions.  

At least show  some respect for the fans who were outsinging the chelsea fans for the last 10 mins of the game even when we were getting battered down on the pitch. Dont mock their sentiments by being all jolly and laid back after you got a pasting. I understand some of them are NT teammates and everything but, even still.
And apparently they didnt applaud the away fans too after the game. Shameful to say the very least.

Modern footballers. A bunch of mercenaries.

Yawn.

Stop blaming your players. Di Maria was a mercenary too and too much pussy mentality for the PL and United. Schweinsteiger washed up and lost his legs. Rooney is a power crazy maniac who has the club as hostage.
Fellaini, Young, Valencia are scrubs and deadwood who need to be shipped off in the coming summer window 2014. And 2015.

The players are not the problem. Your club is. Doing everything wrong, in terms of consistency of coaching recruitment and squad development, that you can do wrong.
The players are just doing their best.

Of course, when they don't perform to their best, they're still getting more money from your clueless board than they could have gotten anywhere else

Sorry, whats exactly the point of this part of your post ?Y Anyway your post quality has gone down Hans. Has to say it.

And about players trying their best. They may be. I fault both players and Mou for this current slump. Some players are giving their blood and sweat for the club. Players like Herrera and Young and even Rooni (on the pitch at least) for that matter.
But not responding and appreciating traveling fans is sick. The part about smiling and jersey exchanging, I wasnt intending that as specifically a United bound issue. Thats more like a basic code of conduct you need to adhere to being a sportsman right ? Getting beaten that way and you need to be sad and angry not happy and chatty.