English Premier League '16-'17 Discussion - Part 5

Don't call me James wrote:The second he signed I said he was the best in the league

Reminds me of the time Liverpool had the best players in each position, according to their fans. Remember that? Reina. Riera. Johnson. Kuyt. Fookin 'ell, Aquilani? Possibly one of the best midfielders this side of the the universe

Yeah it's all fun and games lol troll etc.

But talking about Spurs defense, please look at the context of your argument.

You need to realize how Spurs play before you praise their defenders individually.

They definitely deserve some praise but it's not very hard for defenders to look good in a system they employ.

2 DM's in Dier and Wanyama. Both of them are probably the most hardcore specialized DM destroyers in the league and they are built like tanks. Think about it for a second they play every game with TWO DMs covering their defenders.

Then they have arguably the best keeper in the league (at worst top 3) and one of the best in the world.

Then look at their fullbacks. Powerhouse athletic fullbacks who never stop running.

And on top of all this they employ a hardcore pressing system that the whole team defends collectively.

You put John Stones in that defense and he will look like a world beater.

Alderweireled and Vertonghen are very good individually but they are not any better than Matip or Mustafi or even Koscielny. They are helped majorly in the defense they play.

And unlike Matip or Mustafi or Koscielny, Alderweireled and Vertonghen have been playing together in a partnership since they were 15 years old. Nobody else has this advantage. They have just met their defensive partners and have played a total of 9 games together.

Don't bring the clean sheet argument when we are talking about individual defending ffs. Liverpool struggle to keep clean sheets because of other problems not because of Matip.

McAgger

Don't call me James wrote:Yeah it's all fun and games lol troll etc.

But talking about Spurs defense, please look at the context of your argument.

You need to realize how Spurs play before you praise their defenders individually.

They definitely deserve some praise but it's not very hard for defenders to look good in a system they employ.

2 DM's in Dier and Wanyama. Both of them are probably the most hardcore specialized DM destroyers in the league and they are built like tanks. Think about it for a second they play every game with TWO DMs covering their defenders.

Then they have arguably the best keeper in the league (at worst top 3) and one of the best in the world.

Then look at their fullbacks. Powerhouse athletic fullbacks who never stop running.

And on top of all this they employ a hardcore pressing system that the whole team defends collectively.

You put John Stones in that defense and he will look like a world beater.

Alderweireled and Vertonghen are very good individually but they are not any better than Matip or Mustafi or even Koscielny. They are helped majorly in the defense they play.

And unlike Matip or Mustafi or Koscielny, Alderweireled and Vertonghen have been playing together in a partnership since they were 15 years old. Nobody else has this advantage. They have just met their defensive partners and have played a total of 9 games together.

Don't bring the clean sheet argument when we are talking about individual defending ffs. Liverpool struggle to keep clean sheets because of other problems not because of Matip.

is that not what all good defending is all about. getting the right players and top class coaching. you are saying spurs only defend well because the centre backs have been playing together for years and they are set up as a team to defend well. how else do you get a great defence

Man you are thick as a brick.

Do Liverpool play 2 DM's or is it a makeshift CM that plays as the main destroyer with very little defensive skills?

Do Liverpool have a world class keeper or is it some kid who doesn't have even 100 full professional games under his name?

Have Lovren and Matip had the advantage of playing together since they were 15 years old knowing each other's strengths and weaknesses and almost telepathically communicating or did they just meet and have played together a total of 9 games?

Is Klopp a defensive coach like Poch (who even at Southampton played with 2 DM's in Schneiderlin and Wanyama) where Lovren looked liked a 25m CB?

Don't call me James wrote:Man you are thick as a brick.

Do Liverpool play 2 DM's or is it a makeshift CM that plays as the main destroyer with very little defensive skills?

Do Liverpool have a world class keeper or is it some kid who doesn't have even 100 full professional games under his name?

Have Lovren and Matip had the advantage of playing together since they were 15 years old knowing each other's strengths and weaknesses and almost telepathically communicating or did they just meet and have played together a total of 9 games?

Is Klopp a defensive coach like Poch (who even at Southampton played with 2 DM's in Schneiderlin and Wanyama) where Lovren looked liked a 25m CB?

well that's the thing mate. good centre backs and good coaching make a great defence. you are making excuses as to why Liverpool don't defend well and in the next breath you are making excuses why spurs do defend well. defending is all about good defenders and good coaching if you are keeping clean sheets you have that. if your not keeping clean sheets then you don't

ES wrote:There's nothing wrong with what McAgger said lol, out of those CB's bought, Matip is the best one. I'd put him best of the league if i could, but i need to see more Pool matches

Matip is nowhere near as good as Mustafi. And it's plain ridiculous to say he's the best in the league after he's been in the league less than 10 games and Liverpool concede from literally every single corner kick.

This is the last thing I'm gonna post regarding this topic with you. You are too thick to understand or you simply refuse to see logic, I don't know or care whichever it is.

First Liverpool defend very well from open play ever since Matip came into the team.

Only Bayern München and Juventus are conceding fewer shots on target per game than Liverpool this season Europe's top leagues.

Liverpool defend well because Klopp is a good coach and has organized us well. But Klopp doesn't hurt the teams offensive game to fit 2 DM's just so he can get a few more clean sheets.

We have conceded the bulk of our goals (5) in the first 2 games when Matip was out and Henderson and Milner had no idea what DM and LB positions entail. Also when Mignolet and Moreno were starters.

Liverpool - 6 goals since then in 7 games.
Arsenal - 5 goals in those last 7 games.
City - 7 goals in last 7 games.
Chelsea - 7 goals in last 7 games
United - 11 goals in last 7 games
Everton - 6 goals in last 7 games
Spurs - 3 goals in last 7 games

And it needs to be pointed out that we've faced the toughest opposition until now which means better offensive teams.

Main problem is set piece defending. One big reason for this is us having one of shortest starting XI's in the whole league. Another reason is that both of our main keepers are bad at commanding their box and collecting crosses. And the problem with having so many many attacking players in the side starting all at once means they don't have too many defensive instincts which leads to ball watching quite regularly and not defending second balls from corners. First ball isn't even our main problem. It's always the second ball from set pieces that *bleep* us over. For example take a look yesterdays goal or Swansea goal's or Hull's goal. None of the players react after the first ball is defended.

Secondly, clean sheets don't mean shit. I bet Spurs and Arsenal are loving their clean sheets this weekend when they dropped 2 points. They would bite your hand off for our 2-1 result.

And finally, don't reply to this because you've been spewing this same garbage argument about how shit our defense is without even considering the improvements since last season or the improvement since Matip came on.

Hapless_Hans wrote:

ES wrote:There's nothing wrong with what McAgger said lol, out of those CB's bought, Matip is the best one. I'd put him best of the league if i could, but i need to see more Pool matches

Matip is nowhere near as good as Mustafi. And it's plain ridiculous to say he's the best in the league after he's been in the league less than 10 games and Liverpool concede from literally every single corner kick.

I agree. matip is a good signing for us and is our best defender but like you say its early days and we need to stop giving away silly goals before we start talking about how good he or our defence is. tbh I think klopp has got everything right so far apart from the defence. we need to defend much better tbh.

Hapless_Hans wrote:

ES wrote:There's nothing wrong with what McAgger said lol, out of those CB's bought, Matip is the best one. I'd put him best of the league if i could, but i need to see more Pool matches

Matip is nowhere near as good as Mustafi. And it's plain ridiculous to say he's the best in the league after he's been in the league less than 10 games and Liverpool concede from literally every single corner kick.

We have not conceded from LITERALLY every single corner kick.

And are you insinuating that these set piece goals are Matip's fault?

Don't call me James wrote:This is the last thing I'm gonna post regarding this topic with you. You are too thick to understand or you simply refuse to see logic, I don't know or care whichever it is.

First Liverpool defend very well from open play ever since Matip came into the team.

Only Bayern München and Juventus are conceding fewer shots on target per game than Liverpool this season Europe's top leagues.

Liverpool defend well because Klopp is a good coach and has organized us well. But Klopp doesn't hurt the teams offensive game to fit 2 DM's just so he can get a few more clean sheets.

We have conceded the bulk of our goals (5) in the first 2 games when Matip was out and Henderson and Milner had no idea what DM and LB positions entail. Also when Mignolet and Moreno were starters.

Liverpool - 6 goals since then in 7 games.
Arsenal - 5 goals in those last 7 games.
City - 7 goals in last 7 games.
Chelsea - 7 goals in last 7 games
United - 11 goals in last 7 games
Everton - 6 goals in last 7 games
Spurs - 3 goals in last 7 games

And it needs to be pointed out that we've faced the toughest opposition until now which means better offensive teams.

Main problem is set piece defending. One big reason for this is us having one of shortest starting XI's in the whole league. Another reason is that both of our main keepers are bad at commanding their box and collecting crosses. And the problem with having so many many attacking players in the side starting all at once means they don't have too many defensive instincts which leads to ball watching quite regularly and not defending second balls from corners. First ball isn't even our main problem. It's always the second ball from set pieces that *bleep* us over. For example take a look yesterdays goal or Swansea goal's or Hull's goal. None of the players react after the first ball is defended.

Secondly, clean sheets don't mean shit. I bet Spurs and Arsenal are loving their clean sheets this weekend when they dropped 2 points. They would bite your hand off for our 2-1 result.

And finally, don't reply to this because you've been spewing this same garbage argument about how shit our defense is  without even considering the improvements since last season or the improvement since Matip came on.

I'm not saying matip is not a good signing or he don't make us defend much better he does. but you allways go silly and start talking about our players being the best in the lge after they have 6-7 good games. if you watch Liverpool defend sometimes instead of only watching us attack you will see we are still not great. we are shit at defending set plays. now you can either blame that on klopp. or you can blame that on the defence. but what you cant do is say klopp walks on water and matip is moses when we give away the most silly goals you will ever see. now its up to you who you think is at fault for it.

Don't call me James wrote:

Hapless_Hans wrote:

ES wrote:There's nothing wrong with what McAgger said lol, out of those CB's bought, Matip is the best one. I'd put him best of the league if i could, but i need to see more Pool matches

Matip is nowhere near as good as Mustafi. And it's plain ridiculous to say he's the best in the league after he's been in the league less than 10 games and Liverpool concede from literally every single corner kick.

We have not conceded from LITERALLY every single corner kick.

And are you insinuating that these set piece goals are Matip's fault?

mate nobody is saying its matips fault. but we are just as weak at defending set plays now as we were before he came. so he has not made us defend set plays any worst. but he don't make us defend them any better either. like I said he is a good player and I'm over the moon we got him. but your premature ejaculation is just that.

Macsy Aggsy on fire here

Don't call me James wrote:

Hapless_Hans wrote:

ES wrote:There's nothing wrong with what McAgger said lol, out of those CB's bought, Matip is the best one. I'd put him best of the league if i could, but i need to see more Pool matches

Matip is nowhere near as good as Mustafi. And it's plain ridiculous to say he's the best in the league after he's been in the league less than 10 games and Liverpool concede from literally every single corner kick.

We have not conceded from LITERALLY every single corner kick.

And are you insinuating that these set piece goals are Matip's fault?

To follow up on this for Hans

Since Matip came in we have conceded THREE set piece goals.

vs Hull City

vs Swansea

vs West Brom

Which one of these is Matip at fault for?

Art Morte wrote:Macsy Aggsy on fire here

yeah. his argument just went up in flames. I like james and he is a good poster but sometimes he does get carried away with a few good wins.

Don't call me James wrote:

Don't call me James wrote:

Hapless_Hans wrote:


Matip is nowhere near as good as Mustafi. And it's plain ridiculous to say he's the best in the league after he's been in the league less than 10 games and Liverpool concede from literally every single corner kick.

We have not conceded from LITERALLY every single corner kick.

And are you insinuating that these set piece goals are Matip's fault?

To follow up on this for Hans

Since Matip came in we have conceded THREE set piece goals.

vs Hull City

vs Swansea

vs West Brom

Which one of these is Matip at fault for?

where would you lay the blame for our bad defending from set plays.

Matip best in the league

Liverpool nailed on for the title this year, got the bestest players in every single position.

I mean 5 minutes a game Origi is GOAT already ffs

Don't call me James wrote:

Don't call me James wrote:

Hapless_Hans wrote:


Matip is nowhere near as good as Mustafi. And it's plain ridiculous to say he's the best in the league after he's been in the league less than 10 games and Liverpool concede from literally every single corner kick.

We have not conceded from LITERALLY every single corner kick.

And are you insinuating that these set piece goals are Matip's fault?

To follow up on this for Hans

Since Matip came in we have conceded THREE set piece goals.

vs Hull City

vs Swansea

vs West Brom

Which one of these is Matip at fault for?

It might not have been indivdual mistakes, but surely he has committed three appearance mistakes there

so Matip is the best CB in the league..but isn't in an environment to showcase it? and we should disregard other top CB's because they are

I see

I like it better when you stick to one line kneejerks than making me read through long-winded posts of shite ffs

I think james gets a bit over enthusiastic sometimes. nothing wrong with that tbh. but a old git like me knows you never count your chickens before they hatch

Hapless_Hans wrote:

ES wrote:There's nothing wrong with what McAgger said lol, out of those CB's bought, Matip is the best one. I'd put him best of the league if i could, but i need to see more Pool matches

Matip is nowhere near as good as Mustafi. And it's plain ridiculous to say he's the best in the league after he's been in the league less than 10 games and Liverpool concede from literally every single corner kick.

What has Mustafi done in his career to be so far away better than Matip, that makes Joel nowhere near as good? Just *bleep* lmao.

He was part of a relegation fighting Valencia defense last season. That's where he was. A Valencia team not lacking quality I should say since it was largely the same squad that was in CL the year before. The big difference was no Otamendi to hold his hand.

Whereas Matip led his team to challenge for CL spots and his departure has literally had a Lebron affect on Schalke where they are now relegation fodder without him.

And like you said, Mustafi has also only been in the league for less than 10 games.

Abramovich wrote:Matip best in the league

Liverpool nailed on for the title this year, got the bestest players in every single position.

I mean 5 minutes a game Origi is GOAT already ffs

There's literally the same troll post like this repeated 5 times on the last page. It wasn't funny then an it isn't funny now that you posted it. I get the message that you are trying to be sarcastic but don't sit there and just repeat the same thing as 10 other guys on the last page.

I agree with Mc about Mustafi hype, The only thing of note Mustafi has done is play a few game for Germany in the Euros which makes people assume he's better than a chunk of players out there. Which is not fair to other CBs and even Kos imo. I rate Kos above Mustafi.

Unique wrote:I think james gets a bit over enthusiastic sometimes. nothing wrong with that tbh. but a old git like me knows you never count your chickens before they hatch

You are an old git and don't speak for me.

Firenze wrote:so Matip is the best CB in the league..but isn't in an environment to showcase it? and we should disregard other top CB's because they are

He's already showcasing it.

I never said he's not in an environment to showcase it.

I said any Tom Dick and Harry would look world class in Spurs defense. It would take something special to look amazing at Liverpool and that's exactly what he's doing, looking amazing.

Lovren looked amazing in a Pochetinno defense with 2 DMs in Morgan and Wanyama protecting him

Nishankly wrote:I agree with Mc about Mustafi hype, The only thing of note Mustafi has done is play a few game for Germany in the Euros which makes people assume he's better than a chunk of players out there. Which is not fair to other CBs and even Kos imo. I rate Kos above Mustafi.

There are simply not that many world class CB's in the world let alone in the PL.

Mustafi and Koscielny and Vertonghen and Alderweireld are all top PL defenders. They are also mistake prone and hyped beyond their actual quality. They are good defenders but they are not best in the world or anything.

I call this the Kompany syndrome. The *bleep* made a career at being overhyped. even in his prime he was nothing more than a good CB.

Matip on the other hand is world class and the best defender in the PL. He was top 3 in Bundesliga. And is one of the best in the world.

Virgil Van Dijk is another top PL CB. In his case he's actually quite underrated. Imo he's top 2 with Matip.

Don't call me James wrote:

Unique wrote:I think james gets a bit over enthusiastic sometimes. nothing wrong with that tbh. but a old git like me knows you never count your chickens before they hatch

You are an old git and don't speak for me.

Firenze wrote:so Matip is the best CB in the league..but isn't in an environment to showcase it? and we should disregard other top CB's because they are

He's already showcasing it.

I never said he's not in an environment to showcase it.

I said any Tom Dick and Harry would look world class in Spurs defense. It would take something special to look amazing at Liverpool and that's exactly what he's doing, looking amazing.

Lovren looked amazing in a Pochetinno defense with 2 DMs in Morgan and Wanyama protecting him

so your saying is any fool can defend well under pochetinno but top of the range defenders cant defend well under klopp.