QF: Germany vs Italy (July 2nd)

juvealbanian wrote:I thought they’d won the Euros the way they celebrated at the end. It was unbelievable.This in my opinion shows a small mentality and they are not going to do anything in the competition.

Are you CR7? XD

Actually it shows the respect we have for Italy. You should be proud of that.

Well man, if you managed to get your team scoring with Zaza and Pelle up top and no creative midfielders, you would celebrate every goal for the miracle it is

BarrileteCosmico wrote:Well man, if you managed to get your team scoring with Zaza and Pelle up top and no creative midfielders, you would celebrate every goal for the miracle it is

To be fair though, Giaccherini, Pelle and Eder combined for four goals this tournament. That's not an awful rate of return.

Chiellini and Bonucci with one each.

But today definitely showed the lack of quality from the midfield-forward. The wingbacks were quite disappointing offensively as well.

I want to believe that a midfield composed of Marchisio, Verratti and De Rossi does not lose today, but this is how it goes.

I've calmed down since the game has ended now. Penalty shootouts are harsh, this whole game was terrifying from start to finish emotionally. I don't think I'll ever quite forgive Zaza for that though and Pelle was also quite smug before his shot pointing to Neuer signalling where he was going to shoot only to miss the net completely. Both of them lacked character and intelligence.

Buffon crying at the end

Lucifer wrote:Also never seen German players this pussified. Italians really have crawled under their skin.

juvealbanian wrote:I thought they’d won the Euros the way they celebrated at the end. It was unbelievable.This in my opinion shows a small mentality and they are not going to do anything in the competition.

FYI as a German who grew up in Munich tonight meant more to me than 2001 or 2012. And both trophies from 2001 were as nailbiting as can be.

(click to enlarge)

This game was really bad for my BP.

I want to kill Zaza and Pelle.

Shout out to the Man U scrubs on missing their penalties: Darmian and Piggy

Congrats to Germany, better team won. Italy exceeded expectations anyways. Lets go whoever wins the Euros now.

I just copy pasted that Ronaldo quote to piss germans off .But they surely deserved it and of course they gonna celebrate cuz it's first time theu beat italians in major competitions...lets say it was a small german revenge for those 2006 moments.

However we all know they played against the weakest Italy upfront so ... xD

BarrileteCosmico wrote:

Hapless_Hans wrote:Can't believe we actually progressed against ITALY



A historic moment.

Much deserved too, Italy was the weaker team and would've just simply lost without much ado if not for Boateng's brainfart. What the hell

Never seen Müller before in such a bad form as at this Euros. Absolutely terrible lol. It's like he's lost everything at once.

Also, Zaza's penalty surely was the silliest penalty in the history of football
Add to that that Conte subbed him on 30 seconds before extra for this ffs

Even when you beat them you still don't win against them

You will find that I wrote "progressed" instead of "won"
We can't win against Italy.

Luca wrote:I want to believe that a midfield composed of Marchisio, Verratti and De Rossi does not lose today, but this is how it goes.

As always, it serves to point out that Germany would be stronger with Gündogan and Reus too.

I was talking to a friend few hours before the game and I predicted that it will be a draw and that we would win at penalties to which he replied "Who the *bleep* is going to score penalties in our team?". He was so right .

Also credit to Loew for adjusting Germany in the most efficient way to neutralize Italy's threats. The italian way you could say.

Italy's THREATS? Löw decided to tone down our own attacking game and start one more CB to neutralize Eder and Pelle Pingo? Jesus.
Löw gets nocredit for anything from me.

Winter is Coming wrote:Buffon crying at the end

Even though I was glad that Germany finally made it, I was so saddened to see Gigi that heartbroken

What an awful game... truly disappointed.

Hapless_Hans wrote:Italy's THREATS? Löw decided to tone down our own attacking game and start one more CB to neutralize Eder and Pelle Pingo? Jesus.
Löw gets nocredit for anything from me.

Very convenient to not give him credit when his team wins but blame him when his team loses.

Only Boateng ruined his game plan with his brain fart, otherwise it was perfectly executed to stop Italy.

KP's quite accurate in his description of Loew's approach. He essentially pulled an Italy on Italy, risking no more than was necessary, looking first to render us impotent in attack and then looking to do what he could with the pieces he was left with.

Hans' indignation though is quite justified in that Loew's approach, whilst ultimately effective, seemed entirely unnecessary. This was an Italy side that was not only short of the three best midfielder's in the country but the two best in the squad that remained. In short, a side ripe for the taking. I'm glad we were never subjected to such an assault, but I would have been genuinely curious to see Germany truly go for it against us. It simply never came though.

Conte did well in this tournament but at the same time I do take issue with his approach, especially as the game neared a penalty shootout. We were never going to be favoured from the spot yet we mounted no serious attempt to win during extra time. Insigne was afforded a paltry twelve minutes despite Giaccherini and Eder appearing to be spent physically inside 90 minutes.

In 2006, we finished the game with a front four of Gilardino, Iaquinta, Del Piero and Totti. This wasn't because we were loading up for a shootout but because we wanted to end it before it reached that point. Today though we spent half an hour treading water, waiting for a death sentence.

Loew's approach was in part justified by Conte. A lack of a reaction from Italy meant he could essentially ride out the game, confident that Germany were the likelier side to score if the game continued in the same fashion and the likelier side to win a shootout. His hand had to be forced if he was to shift to a four man backline and we never made him risk a thing. It was a dull and negative approach but in the game itself, it was safe.

There is an argument however that in the wider context of the tournament, Loew's decision was reckless. This was a game that Germany could have closed in 90 minutes, had he taken a more positive approach. Instead, he sentenced his side to an extra half an hour of play in an emotionally draining fixture and increasing his side's risk of incurring injuries and suspensions. It's dangerous to look ahead to the next game but given that Loew's approach was concerned entirely with risk management, it deserves discussion.

It's rather strange to think that we came so close to a frankly undeserved progression through the shootout. To think that Mueller, Oezil and Piggy all missed penalties is astonishing. If you'd been told this in advance, you'd have staked a house on Italy. Neuer though was simply superb. The man is a mental giant. I can forgive Bonucci and Darmian their penalties. They tried to pick a spot and hit it only to see a great goalkeeper deny them. I bear no such sympathy for Zaza and Pelle however. If they'd just ignored the keeper and tried to pick a spot, I couldn't blame anyone for missing. As we saw with even Germany's senators, the pressure can get to anyone. Seeing two inexperienced, provincial hacks trying to play mind games with Manuel Neuer though made my blood boil. Both should hide their faces in shame. Pelle, given his age, should never don the shirt again. Zaza may redeem himself in the future, but he should certainly be dropped for the next squad. Missing isn't embarrassing. Anyone can make a technical mistake. Their antics however were disrespectful to all involved. To their teammates, to their fans and to an illustrious opponent. Makes it all the worse that Zaza was brought on only to take a penalty. Should have sent De Rossi on, he's probably the best taker in the entire squad and his experience could well have made the difference. As long as he could walk, I'd have thrown him in at the very end.

Finally, a note on the German celebrations. Well deserved and completely justified. This is how much a game like this is meant to mean to players. Let's not forget that a great many of this squad were part of the team vanquished by Italy in 2012. Hell, Schweinsteiger was even part of the semi-final in 2006. As a game, all of the excitement rose mostly from the tension involved rather than any great play, but it will no doubt be cherished by many of those players as one of the most satisfying of their careers. It would have been more insulting had they not celebrated.

Also I've congratulated our resident Germans before in the immediate aftermath of the game but think it's worth doing a second time for the respectful manner in which they're enjoying their triumph. It means a lot, thanks guys.

How was Löw's approach reckless? Going all out attack against Italy is just stupid. You can't allow Italy to score, otherwise you're *bleep*. Löw made sure that didn't happen with his change in formation, and the goal came aswell. Everything was going to plan until Boateng *bleep* up and I can hardly blame Löw for that.

Having one more attacker doesn't guarantee you goals, it doesn't make it more likely to score against Italy's 9 man defence either. It leaves you open to counter attacks though which is exactly what Spain were prone to. Löw didn't fall in the same trap.

I'm very proud of Löw, the 2012 Löw would've done exactly as Hans suggested and lost the game because Italy would score first. But he developed a lot since then into a top class manager as proven last night.

tbf dost I was kind of trying to be disrespectful on here, and also I acted much more disrespectful in real life.

It was a bad gameplan by Low imo...  he was lucky that both DDR and Motta were out because Italy lacked the key to triggering their transition.  Sturaro just doesn't have that skill.

Germany had a very hard time with Kimmich and Howedes on the right side mainly because they weren't used to playing in a 352.  This is not something you just bring out for one game.  It takes a while to make it work.

Italy wanted a game like this where they either scored on one of their few counter attacks or it went to PKs.  That was their gameplan.  Just because their players choked in the PKs doesn't take away the fact that Low played right into their hands.

The way to beat a 352 is not through the middle or by making crosses wide.  The soft spot is making diagonal runs between the wingbacks and the corner CBs.  As an example, Atleti do this to perfection with Juanfran.  Torres would occupy the CBs, Griezmann would dezone to the top of the box and Juanfran would make a diagonal backcut in between the fullback and CB.  You can do this either via the fullback or a wide player.  Draxler was PERFECT for it.  I would have played a 442 with Mueller playing right behind Gomez, Draxler on one side and Ozil on the other (although you give him freedom to come in).  Problem was that Draxler came in once Gomez was out... so you didn't have that box presence to occupy the CBs.

And btw, why the f is there only Gomez as a proper CF on the squad...

They got through...  but Low got lucky.

exactly sports..

I fail to see how Germany's approach in this tournament thus far may be classified as all-out attack. Germany hadn't yet conceded a goal in the entire tournament - though of course there were significant risks against the Ukraine and Poland. No one is suggesting he should have put six strikers on but taking Draxler out when the clear weakness in the Italy formation is the lack of a true defender on the right flank needlessly sacrificed a potent attacking weapon.

It's no coincidence that Germany's most dangerous moments, including the goal, came from exploiting Florenzi. Loew's approach in general however did very little to punish him regularly. His initial mistake was forced as much by chance as any plan.

It's folly to compare the threat Italy posed to Spain to this Germany side. Pelle was able to single handedly dominate the Spanish back four using his physicality to bring in Eder, Giaccherini and De Sciglio on the counter, aided by a listless and defensively suspect midfield. Spain are certainly not as bad as people have suddenly made them out to be but Germany's another monster entirely. Loew's got the most stacked side in international football by a country mile. Yet he still couldn't beat Italy over 120 minutes. If Italy had won the shootout, is Loew still crowned a top class manager? He left his side at the mercy of a lottery they need not have suffered. He's certainly not quite as naive as in 2012 but no one faced with such a disparity in talent should come so close to throwing it all away.

Hapless_Hans wrote:tbf dost I was kind of trying to be disrespectful on here, and also I acted much more disrespectful in real life.

Never turn down a compliment, Hans.

It is funny how honourable gentlemen forget to give the remedy for when Germany are out of possession, where Italy would have caught them on the backfoot with plenty of space to exploit on a counter where your wing backs are caught in no man's land.

He didn't do the dumb thing... which is try to either attack Italy with the short passing game down the middle or by mindlessly crossing the ball. But Low also didn't do the smart thing like a Simeone would do for example.

I personally thought he would go to a 433 or a 442 and take Mueller out for a CM... bring either Ozil or Draxler closer to Gomez. Double pivot isn't smart against Italy obviously. But taking Draxler out for a CB wasn't even in the realm of imagination for me

But hey, Germany got through. I give credit to the German players, not the manager. If I were German, I would send a fruit basket to Pelle and Zaza too. Makes it easy when you can't hit the target on a pk