With Germany's Loss To Italy, There May Be Some Cause For Concern

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With Germany's Loss To Italy, There May Be Some Cause For Concern Empty With Germany's Loss To Italy, There May Be Some Cause For Concern

Post by ioilersrock448 Thu Jun 28, 2012 10:35 pm

2012: Semi Final Euro
2012: CL Final
2012: Double Runners Up In Germany
2010: 3rd Place World Cup
2010: CL Final
2009: Bundesliga Runners Up
2008: Final Euro
2006: 3rd Place World Cup

It's scary to think about how many trophies that Piggy and Lahm could of had. Sure they will go down as some of the best Bayern have ever had but how many times can Germany and Bayern fail to capture a trophy and stick with them as the leaders?

This trend is very concerning and to me it's a huge problem. Many had us to be the best team in the world at points this season and Germany were considered by many as favorites at the euro. However after two painful defeats to Dortmund in crucial games (1-0 & 5-2) the walls seemed to cave in and then there were no trophies to be one for Bayern or Germany after losing to Chelsea and Italy.

Now as for the problem, Schweinsteiger and Lahm are not adequate enough leaders in the NT or for Bayern. More than ever I am not convinced that we could win the CL with those two as leaders. There has to be someone brave enough to step up and be a leader like an Oliver Kahn was who can enspire a team to victory. It's clear they are not the ones to do it and I doubt that Gomez, Ribery, Robben or even Gustavo are the ones to do it either. Maybe Neuer is, but who knows.

So how is this problem fixed? Well first off I have always been a firm, believer that selling van Bommel to Milan was a horrific mistake it took away a ton of leadership from the team and attitude. There has to be someone with quality abilities in the transfer market who can be a great leader for Bayern.

The bottom line, to me with Schweinsteiger and Lahm as leaders, we can't win the CL no matter how good our depth becomes, no matter how many goals Gomez scores, no matter if Robben returns to form and no matter if defensive issues get resolved. The main problem is the leadership and today proved that as did the CL final especially when Piggy turned away from Robben's penalty and seemingly crumbled in PK's.
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Post by The Messiah Fri Jun 29, 2012 12:23 am

yes you are right, leadership is missing in our team and you could say it's the reason why we've missed out on so many trophies.

As a die-hard arrogant Bayern fan, this has been my worst season so far, I can not legitimately boast with my team anymore, I'm tired of saying we got to Champions league final twice in three years without winning it.

Let the truth be told, we have an amazing team but for some reason we seems to lack that final touch, either in defense or in attack. I feel the lack of charismatic leader is the reason for all this, I've already pointed out my disappointment with Schweinsteiger due to the way he reacted in CPL final penalty shootout, no true leader would have acted like a girl in such situation.


Also the board have to stop favourism and drop players like Badstuber when they play badly, it's not compulsory that we've to be stubborn and stick to one system, 4231 has brought us good play, but yet it has not won us anything in 2years, both national team and Bayern.


We need to look at ourselves and makes some adjustment, say for example when Schweinsteiger is not fit he should not start, when Badstuber plays badly he should be drop and should not always start, other players should be given their chances when German stars are failing.


Also I think Lahm needs some rest and it's well know that he's not a true leader, so making Neuer Bayern Munich captain next season wouldn't be a bad ideal.

But this will never happen..
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Post by BayernObi07 Fri Jun 29, 2012 4:08 pm


Hmnnn....

" As a die-hard arrogant Bayern fan, this has been my worst season so far, I can not legitimately boast with my team anymore, I'm tired of saying we got to Champions league final twice in three years without winning it.Brother..I am TIRED.greatly Dis spirited and Drained!
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Post by Kingofeverythingclassy Sat Jun 30, 2012 4:00 am

I miss having Van Bommel as captain even though he was not good enough to start & an average player he was captain. I am all for Neuer taking the armband but I doubt if it would ever happen.

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Post by rwo power Sat Jun 30, 2012 9:51 am

Well, I fear the Bayern Ultras would go ballistic if Manu Neuer gets the armband. On the other hand, Bayern had the perfect example with Oliver Kahn as captain, so maybe if Neuer continuing to show his excellent leadership, they might consider him after all.
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Post by The Messiah Sat Jun 30, 2012 11:36 am

[quote="rwo power"]Well, I fear the Bayern Ultras would go ballistic if Manu Neuer gets the armband. On the other hand, Bayern had the perfect example with Oliver Kahn as captain, so maybe if Neuer continuing to show his excellent leadership, they might consider him after all.[/quote

I'm an ultra fan and I say we're in support of Neuer being the Captain
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Post by la bestia negra Sat Jun 30, 2012 11:49 am

The Messiah wrote:
rwo power wrote:Well, I fear the Bayern Ultras would go ballistic if Manu Neuer gets the armband. On the other hand, Bayern had the perfect example with Oliver Kahn as captain, so maybe if Neuer continuing to show his excellent leadership, they might consider him after all.

I'm an ultra fan and I say we're in support of Neuer being the Captain


she means the same idiots who went on a koan neuer movement
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Post by The Messiah Sat Jun 30, 2012 11:53 am

Robbery wrote:
The Messiah wrote:
rwo power wrote:Well, I fear the Bayern Ultras would go ballistic if Manu Neuer gets the armband. On the other hand, Bayern had the perfect example with Oliver Kahn as captain, so maybe if Neuer continuing to show his excellent leadership, they might consider him after all.

I'm an ultra fan and I say we're in support of Neuer being the Captain


she means the same idiots who went on a koan neuer movement

We are not idiots, we're ultra fans.

But I was not among those who jeered or booed Neuer, I was happy we signed him.

But in general, I'm an ultra fan
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Post by rwo power Sat Jun 30, 2012 2:27 pm

The Messiah wrote:But in general, I'm an ultra fan
So you're a member of Schickeria, Inferno Bavaria ’01, Munichmaniacs ’96, alarMstufe rot or Munich’s Red Pride? *just curious*
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Post by Onyx Sat Jun 30, 2012 3:01 pm

What's wrong with Lahm being captain?

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Post by rwo power Sat Jun 30, 2012 3:06 pm

mtfootball wrote:What's wrong with Lahm being captain?
Lahm is more of a politician who likes to talk hollow phrases to the press than someone who can rally his team when they need to be pushed to overcome being down one or the other goal. You might want to look up how many times this season Bayern managed to win after they were down 0-1. It wasn't too often.
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Post by Onyx Sat Jun 30, 2012 3:07 pm

Maybe that could of been a tactical problem?

Also maybe the manager can tell Lahm to rally the team?

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Post by rwo power Sat Jun 30, 2012 3:09 pm

Frankly, if a manager needs to tell his captain to rally his team, then something is wrong with the captain's leading abilities.

I think the only time when Lahm actually showed elbows was when he got the armband from Ballack for the NT and then stated he didn't want to give it up again.
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Post by Sushi Master Sat Jun 30, 2012 3:24 pm

I'm 100% for Neuer being captain. Frack the ultras.

When the team are in their usual lazy mode, he's the only one pushing people around and ordering the team to go on. Lahm's decent, but not vocal enough.

Plus, it's more effective having a 193 cm wall of muscle rather than a 170 cm guy scream at you Very Happy
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Post by The Messiah Sat Jun 30, 2012 9:38 pm

rwo power wrote:
The Messiah wrote:But in general, I'm an ultra fan
So you're a member of Schickeria, Inferno Bavaria ’01, Munichmaniacs ’96, alarMstufe rot or Munich’s Red Pride? *just curious*

I don't even know who all those are, I am just a one man ultra fan and most people would have noticed it by now
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Post by rwo power Sat Jun 30, 2012 10:33 pm

The Messiah wrote:
rwo power wrote:
The Messiah wrote:But in general, I'm an ultra fan
So you're a member of Schickeria, Inferno Bavaria ’01, Munichmaniacs ’96, alarMstufe rot or Munich’s Red Pride? *just curious*

I don't even know who all those are, I am just a one man ultra fan and most people would have noticed it by now
These are just 5 of the most vociferous Bayern Ultrà groups. ^^
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Post by The Messiah Sat Jun 30, 2012 10:43 pm

rwo power wrote:
The Messiah wrote:
rwo power wrote:
The Messiah wrote:But in general, I'm an ultra fan
So you're a member of Schickeria, Inferno Bavaria ’01, Munichmaniacs ’96, alarMstufe rot or Munich’s Red Pride? *just curious*

I don't even know who all those are, I am just a one man ultra fan and most people would have noticed it by now
These are just 5 of the most vociferous Bayern Ultrà groups. ^^

I'm more Vociferous than all of them put together, I'm a football fanatic and it's not a shame
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Post by rwo power Sun Jul 01, 2012 1:59 pm

The Messiah wrote:
rwo power wrote:
The Messiah wrote:
rwo power wrote:
The Messiah wrote:But in general, I'm an ultra fan
So you're a member of Schickeria, Inferno Bavaria ’01, Munichmaniacs ’96, alarMstufe rot or Munich’s Red Pride? *just curious*

I don't even know who all those are, I am just a one man ultra fan and most people would have noticed it by now
These are just 5 of the most vociferous Bayern Ultrà groups. ^^

I'm more Vociferous than all of them put together, I'm a football fanatic and it's not a shame
If you can understand German, you might want to watch this - it is a little guide about "How to become a proper Ultra" Razz


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Post by Onyx Sun Jul 01, 2012 4:27 pm

"In front of the cameras, Philipp Lahm is a rhetorically brilliant captain," Netzer wrote in a column for Bild.

"But on the pitch for Bayern last season and now at the Euros after the Netherlands game he showed some serious defensive weaknesses. He's too willing to go forward, and has lost his effectiveness."

Netzer went on to criticise Lahm's deputy captain, Bastian Schweinsteiger, who despite having a few good moments did not impress the World Cup and European champion.

"Bastian Schweinsteiger is just not a natural leader," he added.

"I praised him for his wonderful pass to [Mario] Gomez in the game against the Netherlands. But I also pointed out that this must happen regularly. It alone isn't enough to make a claim of leadership."

According to Netzer, leadership is an attribute which must be valued and fostered by a coach but cannot simply be taught. And he feels it is an attribute every team needs in at least one of its players.

"You cannot instruct football players to have leadership if they don't have the right temperament," he insisted. "But if they have it, they need the unconditional support of the coach.

"Every outstanding team in the history of football has had outstanding individual characters."

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Post by The Messiah Sun Jul 01, 2012 7:06 pm

mtfootball wrote:"In front of the cameras, Philipp Lahm is a rhetorically brilliant captain," Netzer wrote in a column for Bild.

"But on the pitch for Bayern last season and now at the Euros after the Netherlands game he showed some serious defensive weaknesses. He's too willing to go forward, and has lost his effectiveness."

Netzer went on to criticise Lahm's deputy captain, Bastian Schweinsteiger, who despite having a few good moments did not impress the World Cup and European champion.

"Bastian Schweinsteiger is just not a natural leader," he added.

"I praised him for his wonderful pass to [Mario] Gomez in the game against the Netherlands. But I also pointed out that this must happen regularly. It alone isn't enough to make a claim of leadership."

According to Netzer, leadership is an attribute which must be valued and fostered by a coach but cannot simply be taught. And he feels it is an attribute every team needs in at least one of its players.

"You cannot instruct football players to have leadership if they don't have the right temperament," he insisted. "But if they have it, they need the unconditional support of the coach.

"Every outstanding team in the history of football has had outstanding individual characters."


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Post by Cotes Mon Jul 02, 2012 2:39 am

ioilersrock448 wrote:2012: Semi Final Euro
2012: CL Final
2012: Double Runners Up In Germany
2010: 3rd Place World Cup
2010: CL Final
2009: Bundesliga Runners Up
2008: Final Euro
2006: 3rd Place World Cup
2002: World Cup Runner Up

I just made the correction...
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Post by Bellabong Mon Jul 02, 2012 5:31 am

It's actually partially the fault of Germany itself - we celebrated the '06, '08, '10 sides as if they won the tournament and thus we encouraged this type of thinking.

In reality, the '10 and '12 sides should have won the tournament, but Löw has now proven himself to be tactically inept. Great Coach, not so much manager. Players like Effenberg are just not "welcomed" into a german football association which wanted to drastically increase the technical talent pool, which it did, at the cost of the players who fight. Players who would headbutt someone at intense provocation, players who are emotionally invested, but the shortcomings don't bother them. Tymo has the leadership qualities, but he's a fringe player. Of the starting 11 only Neuer, Badstuber and Alaba seem to have what it takes to headbutt someone.
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Post by The Messiah Mon Jul 02, 2012 10:50 am

Phritz wrote:It's actually partially the fault of Germany itself - we celebrated the '06, '08, '10 sides as if they won the tournament and thus we encouraged this type of thinking.

In reality, the '10 and '12 sides should have won the tournament, but Löw has now proven himself to be tactically inept. Great Coach, not so much manager. Players like Effenberg are just not "welcomed" into a german football association which wanted to drastically increase the technical talent pool, which it did, at the cost of the players who fight. Players who would headbutt someone at intense provocation, players who are emotionally invested, but the shortcomings don't bother them. Tymo has the leadership qualities, but he's a fringe player. Of the starting 11 only Neuer, Badstuber and Alaba seem to have what it takes to headbutt someone.


That depends, I've seen him closed to point of tears on several occasion for mere yellow cards and criticism from Van Gaal.

I don't get why everyone blows this guy out of proportion, he lacks leadership or whatsoever, he tries too much to be a leader, picking up fight with senior team mate and trying to control the defense when Van Buyten and Lahm are there.

You don't get leadership by pretending to be a leader, it comes naturally like Neuer.


Respect is also part of leadership, same Badstuber that flipped at Neuer after making an error and Neuer tried to console him, don't remember how many times Boateng has flipped at him, jumping in anger.

I tell you what, he's a difficult character to form a partnership with and a decent CB, sooner or later if he doesn't improve it will even become more apparent to the world, especially when he becomes more important, thereby pulling more audience worldwide, not just Bayern Fan and Germans who seems to over-rate him.
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Post by The Messiah Mon Jul 02, 2012 11:27 am

I don't know how true is this, Bild reports that Bayern fired Nerlinger, and that Matthias Sammer will be new sport director...

if this is true then I guess this is way forward, Nerlinger almost never wanted to sign any player, if he signed just 1 cb or md during the winter break, we could have perhaps be champions of Europe by now
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Post by jibers Tue Jul 03, 2012 12:29 am

Bayern needs Nerman, somoen who can win them games. Too many weak mentalities in that squad.
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