Re: Guardiola has failed Bayern Munich

by rwo power Sun May 08, 2016 8:47 pm

halamadrid2 wrote:Bayern usually win the league by bloody March

Really? Interestingly Leicester actually won the PL before Bayern won the Bundesliga this season (which was only two day ago, btw). And if Tuchel wouldn't have decided to play the reserves in the Revierderby and gotten 3 points there, I'm pretty sure ther still could have been a surprise (or at least an even closer run in with the Buli only decided on the last matchday as I doubt Dortmund would have folded against Frankfurt then).

by sportsczy Sun May 08, 2016 9:03 pm

Look at it this way... from 2000 through 2013, Bayern won 7 of the 13 Bundi titles and never more than 2 in a row.... Pep has gone 3 of 3. The 4 in a row including Heynckes' title is a Bundi record.

But don't let facts get in the way Laughing

Can't believe I have to defend Pep and Bayern. I feel a bit dirty tbh. But this was ridiculous.

by futbol_bill Sun May 08, 2016 9:11 pm

Didn't we all (or the majority of us) agree with Sports that disappointing was the appropriate word to describe Pep tenure at Bayern!!! He is good coach if not the best out there right now, but let's not use the labels as best of all time, genius on him yet. His run at Barca certainly was impressive, but you can't say the same of his run at Bayern. He certainly was brought on board to win the CL and him not achieving that goes down as a disappointment.

Let's see how he makes out at City and that overrated rubbish league. With the amount of money those teams now have and the influx of good coaches, it will be interesting to see which teams can actually make that improvement to be back among the best in Europe. I believe Pep is walking into a much greater challenge that he likely imagines.

by Hapless_Hans Sun May 08, 2016 9:11 pm

should have exempted sports too here.

good posts sports.

you are absolutely right, and you see what I'm dealing with here.

by guest_07 Sun May 08, 2016 9:21 pm

we can plan, only God can decide

same case with guardiola

he can have all the superstars on this planet and still have zero cl (current club)

by sportsczy Sun May 08, 2016 9:22 pm

EPL is going to be the truth imo. You're facing Mou, Wenger ( Laughing

), Klopp, Pep, Conte, Ranieri, Pochettino, Pardew, etc. The best of the best. Over a full league season, you will really get to judge which ones are truly better.

by Unique Sun May 08, 2016 9:28 pm

sportsczy wrote:EPL is going to be the truth imo. You're facing Mou, Wenger (), Klopp, Pep, Conte, Ranieri, Pochettino, Pardew, etc. The best of the best. Over a full league season, you will really get to judge which ones are truly better.

good managers now all we need is world class players. Thumbs up

by Winter is Coming Sun May 08, 2016 9:47 pm

@hala

Are you telling me if Pep didn't make it to the semifinal with BM it wouldn't have been a lot worse? It would've been an even a bigger hit on his reputation for not making it to the semifinal. This is the point I'm trying to make. I know for a fact many Barca/RM/BM fans would lose their sh!t if their teams weren't making semifinal, its not that its a trophy, but no one wants an early elimination (which would mean your team mentally is weak or needs a lot of improvements), we make fun of the EPL for that.

I agree that titles hold more value to good football, but not entirely. Every time I hear other people, including our own fans, so many people complain about the football they see their teams playing when its awfully they also praise the football they play rather the lose/draw/win if its good. Chelsea won the CL, but how many people give them credit despite winning the ultimate prize for club football? Not many, they've also made it to semifinals and finals till 2013 occasionally, why aren't they being spoken about as much as BM/RM? They won the CL as much as them in this last decade, because their football was rubbish. Johan Cruyff Netherlands didn't win an international title, but yet praised for their brand of football, despite being losers in two finals, so is the Brazil side of 1980's. RM fans themselves despite improving under Mou most of you despise his football, we as well as you lot usually make fun of Atleti and their brand of football, despite their success.

Tata is another example first time European football exposure, suffered from some injuries Pinto played almost half a season, Pique out for 1-2 months in the final part of the season, Messi out, he won a title, got to the QF, went all the way till the final match day for the league and CdR final, which for coach not that experienced in the top flight wsn't bad, but everyone hated his tactics/football we played under him. Even when you won the league title (under Mou) many RM fans spoke about their lighting fast counter attacks and under Carlo we were supposedly the second coming of Saachi Milan Laughing

so I disagree that football doesn't play a part. Let's not even go to United were their fans with LvG already believed they were going to match Barcelona/BM football.

As far as it goes to Pep tactic, being a genius, etc its due to the fact actually watching him, many of us have watched him for years, at the same time I listen to what player have said about him, Henry said despite Wenger being a father he learned football the best Under Pep. Kroos about a few months ago I believe said the Pep was the best when it came to preparing his team for games, tactically many intelligent and knowledge players have praised him. Alonso also said I believe that Pep was the best he's been under this coming from someone who's been under Mou, Carlo, Del Bosque, Rafa, etc. Pep problem is stubbornness rather then tactics (he does mess up tactically).

by halamadrid2 Sun May 08, 2016 10:14 pm

@ Winter, you look at it from a different perspective than me i think. Sure being eliminated early is not fun but it also depends on your opponent. If you went out against PSG in the quarters it is alittle different from say Atleti, which is why despite Barca going out twice against Atleti in the quarters nobody called it failures just unlucky draws. I think futbal mentioned Bayern's opponents till the semis. They are not what you'd call "challenging" teams bar this season. His real challenges have always been in semi-finals and forget results for a second his teams have always made the same mistakes in every single one of them. Some adjustments were made vs Atleti but still it was too late.

Of course i agree that you dont want to go out in the last 16 for a number of years but beyond that you have to look at it game for game. No other team would say well our coach reached the semi-final 3 seasons in a row so he has actually been good when your first actual challenge was in that stage. At the end of the day for me if you dont win the whole thing then dont mention how far you got. Maybe Atleti would be happy with reaching at least 2 semis in 3 years and see that as an achievement but for BM/Barca/RM 3 seasons of getting eliminated in the semis should make you gutted not happy

Regarding styles there are two extremes, there is the Mourinho way that nobody likes and the Pep way and everything in between. Nobody wants to be Mourinho even if you win, Pep way would be nice if you win but tiring if it is the reason why you lose which it is alot of the times. For example if Pep was my coach and keeping posession, passing side ways was a big reason why my team kept losing I would be livid if it wasnt changed. No matter if he was revolutioning the way people play their football

by Unique Sun May 08, 2016 10:50 pm

in the 2nd leg v AM Bayern dominated in every aspect of the game. and muller missed a pen. so pep got his tactics spot on. all a manager can do is set the team up to get the better of the other teams. luck and missed chances are not down to the manager imo.

by Myesyats Sun May 08, 2016 10:58 pm

halamadrid2 wrote:Labelling Pep a genious is subjective. I dont agree with that at all

Madridistas don't acknowledge Pep as a great manager, what a shocker. He spanked your ass over the years - be mad, it is good to let all the hate out - maybe you want to talk about it with a specialist?

Guardiola has failed Bayern Munich - Page 8 Giphy

Guardiola has failed Bayern Munich - Page 8 Giphy

by CBarca Sun May 08, 2016 10:58 pm

urbaNRoots wrote:It's funny how instead of providing arguments on why Guardiola has not failed in his Bayern stint, we have a bunch of petty arguments like "What has your club won", "You are clowns" etc...

Almost as if winning Bundesliga with the richest club by FAR, the club which can sign any player they want in said league is the same as competing against 2 of the top 5 clubs in the world for a league title.

Guardiola winning Bundesliga with Buyern is as much of an achievement as Neill Lennon winning the Scottish Premier League. Only Lennin couldn't sign Rangers' players, so it's probably even less of an achievement.

No, what's funny is that other people are coming in here and telling Bayern fans what Guardiola has and hasn't done, but if you actually stopped to listen to some of them for a second, you might understand that none of them are upset with Guardiola and none of them think he has failed.

They might say his tenure left a bit to be desired yet, and that's fair. I don't think anyone is arguing that, and playing the best football by any team this season and still going out tends to put that taste in one's mouth, but the haters are going to continue coming in here and saying exactly what his tenure means.

Maybe actually listen to the Bayern fans. Or the Bayern hierarchy. Do they feel like everything in the last 3 years could have been done with Neil Lennon? Get out of here with that shit

by Winter is Coming Sun May 08, 2016 11:00 pm

@hala

That's true to an extent, but our losing to Atleti due to an unlucky draw shouldn't hold water either, that's like me saying BM technically lost to the eventual winners, so the defeat doesn't seem that bad just unlucky RM/Barca wanted it more. If BM were eliminated by Juventus would the same people say they had an unlucky draw? No, when they were 2-0 down in Munich we were already hearing the word "flop", "failure", etc. Again I don't think so, maybe Hans can shed more light on this, but as I said it wasn't the same way they got eliminated not for me personally. Against RM, that was on Pep, he even said that, so no one can actually deny that however, I don't know what people expected against us when he was a core group of players missing and a few who had returned from injury. Pep only problem is he wasn't trying to park the bus, which lets face it he'll probably never do rather he can or can't. Against Atleti they were a lot better then his previous two semifinal , it was Saul solo wonder goal (3-4 BM players marking the guy) and Mueller PK misses that ultimately cost him. I don't really see were he screwed up tactically here.

Maybe that's way we differ on that. Personally I don't look at it that way I first look at an improvement a coach makes, the unity between the players he can bring, if he improves certain players not living up to expectation, the way the team plays, then see how far he can go. Obviously we feel gutted when you lose a semifinal regardless of who you support, but again making that far is still a good thing imo. Juventus fans were probably gutted losing to BM, but were they disappointed by their performance? No. Many BM fans were gutted by the loss to Atleti, but can one say they were disappointed by the teams performance? No. Against Atleti both times we lost, our performance was utter cr@p, I'd rather be eliminated like Juve or even BM, I would be butt-hurt, but it would give me a good vibe about my club/team and what we have to offer. We all like to go see our clubs go out fighting, aside from RM, BM against Barca/Atleti did do that maybe too late, but they did, but going back to Pep as I said it's the fact that he always wants to attack regardless of situation. I do believe he can change if he wants to, but with him it'll always be all out attacking.

What do you mean by his way lose a lot of time? At the end he has 75% win percentage, has a total of 20 titles in 7 years could sign off his BM reign with a total of 21, how do you say his style loses a lot of time? His style has bought him success and 20 titles in 7 years in an unbelievable achievements and doesn't tell me his style loses a lot. His style probably has been the most successfully in the modern game. But at the end I'll agree with you because everyone looks at it differently not many are fans of his style and it's not to say we haven't had boring games under him nor have BM, but some don't Hans for example seem to love Pep and has enjoyed having him as his manager, I also know many other BM fans who feel the same. I know elderly man who has been a BM fan for 30 years and he personally told me earlier into the season that the football he's seen under Pep is the best he's seen and even if Pep doesn't win the CL he wouldn't consider him a failure, so to each his own I guess.

by futbol Sun May 08, 2016 11:20 pm

CBarca wrote:
urbaNRoots wrote:It's funny how instead of providing arguments on why Guardiola has not failed in his Bayern stint, we have a bunch of petty arguments like "What has your club won", "You are clowns" etc...

Almost as if winning Bundesliga with the richest club by FAR, the club which can sign any player they want in said league is the same as competing against 2 of the top 5 clubs in the world for a league title.

Guardiola winning Bundesliga with Buyern is as much of an achievement as Neill Lennon winning the Scottish Premier League. Only Lennin couldn't sign Rangers' players, so it's probably even less of an achievement.

No, what's funny is that other people are coming in here and telling Bayern fans what Guardiola has and hasn't done, but if you actually stopped to listen to some of them for a second, you might understand that none of them are upset with Guardiola and none of them think he has failed.

The total of 1 regularly active Bayern fan on this forum ( rofl

) = "none of them think he has failed"?

You can listen to "some of them" here: http://www.bayernzone.com/discussions/3069-coach-pep-guardiola-368.html

by Kaladin Sun May 08, 2016 11:25 pm

This could have ended on a high note. As a human being I hope you have learned.

As a Bayern fan? Go f*ck yourself. You know you were capable of more.

by Winter is Coming Sun May 08, 2016 11:28 pm

by Winter is Coming Sun May 08, 2016 11:36 pm

In the start of the thread

FUUUUUUUUUCKKKKKKK!!!!! Psyched. Well come Guardiola.

HOLY MOTHER OF *bleep* GOD, from the official Bayern facebook!

GUARDIOLA!!!

Man, that sounds great. Great day for Bayern, Guardiola pretty much rejected offers from all the Premier League to join us.

Best day ever.

one thing i like more than Guardiola joining is that Bayern are finally being considered as one of the most powerful forces in football today, and the fact that he rejected the premier league (where everyone dreams of going) proves that

by Valkyrja Sun May 08, 2016 11:39 pm

https://twitter.com/SunGossip/status/729353565026852864/photo/1?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw

rofl

by futbol Sun May 08, 2016 11:40 pm

Winter is Coming wrote:In the start of the thread

FUUUUUUUUUCKKKKKKK!!!!! Psyched. Well come Guardiola.

HOLY MOTHER OF *bleep* GOD, from the official Bayern facebook!

GUARDIOLA!!!

Man, that sounds great. Great day for Bayern, Guardiola pretty much rejected offers from all the Premier League to join us.

Best day ever.

one thing i like more than Guardiola joining is that Bayern are finally being considered as one of the most powerful forces in football today, and the fact that he rejected the premier league (where everyone dreams of going) proves that

Further proof that a lot of people who don't know much about Guardiola think he is great solely on reputation and hype while people who have actually seen his work from up close hate him.

by Doc Sun May 08, 2016 11:42 pm

It reads exactly how James acted when Brendan was the bees knees to becoming the scum of the earth or Mole's love for Pardew turning like milk. Hope springs eternal, stuff like that. Don't blame their initial reaction honestly, Pep is really a fantastic manager. But like anything that doesn't live up to expectations comes what is taking place now. Which bodes the question: what exactly were their expectations?

by urbaNRoots Sun May 08, 2016 11:48 pm

sportsczy wrote:Look at it this way... from 2000 through 2013, Bayern won 7 of the 13 Bundi titles and never more than 2 in a row.... Pep has gone 3 of 3. The 4 in a row including Heynckes' title is a Bundi record.

But don't let facts get in the way

Can't believe I have to defend Pep and Bayern. I feel a bit dirty tbh. But this was ridiculous.

Look at it this way if you will.

Pep took over a team that won the league in April(!), a team that was already utterly dominant BEFORE PEP TOOK OVER (because people seem to have forgotten this), signed their biggest title rival's future and current best player, signed the best striker in the league (from their only title rivals of course), outspent all their other rivals by millions and millions of euros, so tell me again what an impressive feat this is.

The expectations will be the same for Ancelotti, winning the Bundesliga is the absolute minimum for Bayern or you get sacked. If Pep won the PL three times in a row with Man City, that's impressive. Same with La Liga, that'd be impressive with any team. Most here make fun of the Bundesliga daily but also consider it a great achievement that Pep won the league while having the best squad, the best finances and the psychological advantage over the rest of the league. Make up your mind, lads. It's either one or the other.

by Unique Sun May 08, 2016 11:52 pm

urbaNRoots wrote:
sportsczy wrote:Look at it this way... from 2000 through 2013, Bayern won 7 of the 13 Bundi titles and never more than 2 in a row.... Pep has gone 3 of 3. The 4 in a row including Heynckes' title is a Bundi record.

But don't let facts get in the way

Can't believe I have to defend Pep and Bayern. I feel a bit dirty tbh. But this was ridiculous.

Look at it this way if you will.

Pep took over a team that won the league in April(!), a team that was already utterly dominant BEFORE PEP TOOK OVER (because people seem to have forgotten this), signed their biggest title rival's future and current best player, signed the best striker in the league (from their only title rivals of course), outspent all their other rivals by millions and millions of euros, so tell me again what an impressive feat this is.

The expectations will be the same for Ancelotti, winning the Bundesliga is the absolute minimum for Bayern or you get sacked. If Pep won the PL three times in a row with Man City, that's impressive. Same with La Liga, that'd be impressive with any team. Most here make fun of the Bundesliga daily but also consider it a great achievement that Pep won the league while having the best squad, the best finances and the psychological advantage over the rest of the league. Make up your mind, lads. It's either one or the other.

david moyes took over a title winning team at man u. cheers

by urbaNRoots Sun May 08, 2016 11:53 pm

Unique wrote:
urbaNRoots wrote:
sportsczy wrote:Look at it this way... from 2000 through 2013, Bayern won 7 of the 13 Bundi titles and never more than 2 in a row.... Pep has gone 3 of 3. The 4 in a row including Heynckes' title is a Bundi record.

But don't let facts get in the way

Can't believe I have to defend Pep and Bayern. I feel a bit dirty tbh. But this was ridiculous.

Look at it this way if you will.

Pep took over a team that won the league in April(!), a team that was already utterly dominant BEFORE PEP TOOK OVER (because people seem to have forgotten this), signed their biggest title rival's future and current best player, signed the best striker in the league (from their only title rivals of course), outspent all their other rivals by millions and millions of euros, so tell me again what an impressive feat this is.

The expectations will be the same for Ancelotti, winning the Bundesliga is the absolute minimum for Bayern or you get sacked. If Pep won the PL three times in a row with Man City, that's impressive. Same with La Liga, that'd be impressive with any team. Most here make fun of the Bundesliga daily but also consider it a great achievement that Pep won the league while having the best squad, the best finances and the psychological advantage over the rest of the league. Make up your mind, lads. It's either one or the other.
david moyes took over a title winning team at man u.

Ok?

by sportsczy Sun May 08, 2016 11:56 pm

That's just not based on reality Urbie... Heynckes won with the 4 best players on the team being Piggy, Robben, Ribery and Lahm. The DM was also Luis Gustavo. The only holdover from that team are Neuer, Lahm, Alaba and Boateng in terms of starters. Basically the defense and keeper other than Benatia. The entire midfield and attack was revamped... as well as the tactics.

So to me... you're not comparing apples to apples here. He didn't win or lose with the same team at all the past 2 seasons.

by halamadrid2 Mon May 09, 2016 12:00 am

@ winter, i suppose we have different tastes on this particular subject. Maybe because you lived through your best years with him. Personally for me as long as you dont play shite on a stick football i have no problem with supporting you. What irks me however is when someone calls one approach better than the other.

by Unique Mon May 09, 2016 12:04 am

urbaNRoots wrote:
Unique wrote:
urbaNRoots wrote:

Look at it this way if you will.

Pep took over a team that won the league in April(!), a team that was already utterly dominant BEFORE PEP TOOK OVER (because people seem to have forgotten this), signed their biggest title rival's future and current best player, signed the best striker in the league (from their only title rivals of course), outspent all their other rivals by millions and millions of euros, so tell me again what an impressive feat this is.

The expectations will be the same for Ancelotti, winning the Bundesliga is the absolute minimum for Bayern or you get sacked. If Pep won the PL three times in a row with Man City, that's impressive. Same with La Liga, that'd be impressive with any team. Most here make fun of the Bundesliga daily but also consider it a great achievement that Pep won the league while having the best squad, the best finances and the psychological advantage over the rest of the league. Make up your mind, lads. It's either one or the other.
david moyes took over a title winning team at man u.

Ok?

I have a bottle of vinegar to go with that salt Laughing

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