Preseason discussion

I’M really having doubts about Zidane. Mind you these recent stories may be BS, but they report that Zidane is not impressed with Jovic not Vinícius. Jovic to be lent out for a year and Vinicius being offered to PSG as part of a Neymar deal.

First he sticks with aging starters and sends away Spanish youth and now this. I guess no one is acceptable to him unless they are French!

futbol_bill wrote:I’M really having doubts about Zidane. Mind you these recent stories may be BS, but they report that Zidane is not impressed with Jovic not Vinícius. Jovic to be lent out for a year and Vinicius being offered to PSG as part of a Neymar deal.

First he sticks with aging starters and sends away Spanish youth and now this. I guess no one is acceptable to him unless they are French!

I find it hard to believe that. We've only just acquired Jovic, and he's barely had a chance to show what he can do. Also, considering Zidane's Ole-like diplomacy when it comes to speaking in public, I find it hard to believe that he'd suddenly express distrust or disappointment in a player, publically. Also, even if Jovic turns out not to be good enough, he's the least of our damn problems

I wouldn't read too much into it, Bill.

The club didn't pay €60m for Jovic to loan him out. He'll either start alongside Benzema or used as his back-up.

Now, as far as the other points you've raised, here's what I think:

1. Madrid was never in for Neymar. The rumor itself has no spine, and I suspect it was made up by Madrid-based news outlets who got tired of seeing Barça sign galacticos for fun and Madrid struggling to land any high-profile player.

2. Vinicius is staying put. He'll either be Hazard's back-up or replace Bale on the right wing should Zidane decide to put the Welshman in the freezer indeterminably.

I really think Madrid have wrapped up their transfer activities for this window. They will not be buying anybody else, and from now on, they'll be just focusing on offloading those who are deemed surplus to requirement.

If Madrid were not interested in Neymar they would have released a comunicado oficial like they did the past two years. If you really believe they are not interested in Neymar, despite about every single reliable journalist we know, then that's naive

The Demon of Carthage wrote:I wouldn't read too much into it, Bill.

The club didn't pay €60m for Jovic to loan him out. He'll either start alongside Benzema or used as his back-up.

Now, as far as the other points you've raised, here's what I think:

1. Madrid was never in for Neymar. The rumor itself has no spine, and I suspect it was made up by Madrid-based news outlets who got tired of seeing Barça sign galacticos for fun and Madrid struggling to land any high-profile player.

2. Vinicius is staying put. He'll either be Hazard's back-up or replace Bale on the right wing should Zidane decide to put the Welshman in the freezer indeterminably.

I really think Madrid have wrapped up their transfer activities for this window. They will not be buying anybody else, and from now on, they'll be just focusing on offloading those who are deemed surplus to requirement.

I don’t think so DoC. For once I agree with Nick. There definitely is something happening. That’s not to say all the versions of different offers from both Madrid and Barça are true. It’s Barça that are in the driver seat, and for sure PSG would rather deal with Madrid. Who ends up with him and which players go the other way is anyone’s quess at this point.

But what I find disconcerting is Zidane. As I said earlier it is his decision to play the same old and then it is all of the new arrivals except Hazard being sent to the bench. Now the stories are both Jovic and Vinícius not good enough plus he is reportedly killing the De Beek deal, again with the same old not impressed (and this supposedly for another bench role). I’d bet if Zidane is offered 11 Frenchmen, he would be suitably impressed with all of them!!

No matter how you look at it, it’s going to be yet another shit season.

I’m definitely selling this season’s tickets! No takers here so I’m going to the street vendors.

PSG yanking our dicks so Barca coughs up more that's what it been from the beginning imo

that's how the transfer market works you take risks to sign certain players. that being said there are certain things that could work for us such as the amount of money we can offer which is more than barca, the fact that PSG can't stand barca and not exactly enjoying having to sell them back neymar for less value they got him for, etc...

you play the game or you lose

First of all, the reason Madrid didn't release an official statement to deny any rumors linking them to Neymar is because PSG didn't ask them to. Florentino said this during his most recent interview with Radio Onda Cero:

Florentino Perez wrote:I respect players who are in other clubs. PSG asked us to publicly deny the rumors last summer.

They won't officially deny it unless PSG asks them to, otherwise they would be releasing official statements every day. And clearly PSG won't ask them this time because they're looking to offload Neymar, and the Madrid rumors could help them drive up the price for Barça.

Now, let me tell you why I don't think Neymar is coming to Madrid and why I think Madrid didn't even try to sign him:

1. It's August, 15th and there are still no concrete rumors indicating that Madrid and PSG have sat down to begin the negotiations. If Madrid were truly interested, they would already be in advanced talks with PSG at this point, especially when they're fully aware that Barça is in the race. But so far, there are only strong rumors linking him to Barça.
   
   
2. You don't sign Hazard if you're interested in Neymar. Sure, both of them can coexist, but Madrid would've made the Brazilian their top priority, had they felt they had the slightest of chances of landing him. The fact that Hazard is here while Neymar is not prompts me to believe that Madrid were never interested. Plus, when was the last time you saw Madrid spend more than €100m on several players (more than €100m each) in one summer window?
   
   
3. Zidane is not a fan, and he can veto any move at this point.
   
   
4. Madrid have completely changed their transfer policy and it's been a very long time since they last signed a Galactico who's not in the final year of their contract:
   
   

   Florentino wrote:We have to go for the young players, due to FFP. This is the policy we must adopt - that of young future stars. Look at Messi. Today we have to work with the youngsters, those who are on the outside and see that they can become great. And we could be wrong, but it’s the work that needs to be done.

   
   

I'm so confident that Neymar is not coming that I'm willing to include him in the initial bet I made you a few days ago for Pogba. So here you go:

I'll change my profile picture and/or sig for any other picture of your choosing for an entire week if either of them signs for Madrid this summer.

Pogba coming is a sucker's bet as he ain't coming. Neymar, I actually would take that bet DoC as I feel we might pull a fast one.

And that includes a loan deal.

DoC, do you even realize how many 100M plus sales there have been?

It's only 10 in the entire history of futbol. only 6 clubs making that size of expenditure. And of the 9 players (Ronaldo is there twice), at least 4 of them haven't worked out. And 3 of them are looking to change clubs. It a very exclusive marketplace that Sports keeps referring to. There are only a handful of clubs that have the financial strength to do these deals (3 EPL, 2 Spanish and PSG). Atleti was able to do so this year thanks to the Greizmann sale and Juve is slowly recovering their financial strength. Bayern probably could as well but like Flo they are reluctant to get carried away with this new elite marketplace.

You keep going on about Flo, who is probably the only futbol executive within these elite clubs who has a sound financial perspective, when the problem this season is clearly Zidane!!!

Technically, season ain't start yet so we can't blame Zidane for anything other than giving the impression he hasn't done much since coming back.

To all we know, shit can work out. I doubt it but it can in theory.

i'm with that. the season hasn't started yet. i get the concerns, and the atleti loss left a bad taste; i'm never one to hamper over a pre-season loss, but that was a shocker. but yeah we haven't kicked a ball yet to start the season. granted there's skepticism and understandably so. i'm also probably one of the most, if not the most skeptic about a lot of stuff.....but for all we know season can start and other teams (namely barcelona) may just have some lapses. unlikely but who knows

let's wait till the season starts, there's more than ample time to bring out torches and pitchforks or roses and champagne. for now, preseason is over....and i think transfers are over too. let's see how things go

To be fair to zidane, his fitness and physical prep pre season is awfully rough. One reason why the players are losing 50-50s and getting run down.

I guess we will see what happens during the season. ZZ is going to drop these players mid season if they continue to under perform. I mean, there’s a point where enough is enough

Breaking news today - Zidane is keeping James!

James stays as a midfielder (6th) meaning De Beek isn’t coming.

Bottom line is we essentially have no proper backups for aging, tired, unmotivated midfield.

My guess is the elusive 11th starting spot will be up for battle between Isco, Bale & James! Lucas the first off the bench as the main reserve. While the kids; Vinicius, Brahim, Jovic, plus on occasion Rodrygo, Kubo come on ever so sloooooowly!

I know we all thought at beginning of last season, it was the front line that needed changes, but surely everyone could see (except Zidane), that the midfield needed major shakeup changes!

And you guys are questioning my selling my seats for this season!!!!

James and Isco aren’t midfielders. They’re attackers.
The sooner we’d realise it, the sooner we’d improve.

We have 1 backup for three midfield spots. Absolutely wild move from Zidane and the board. We have no depth aside from attackers, and even there we’ll end up playing Vazquez, the worst player in Madrid history

Worst player I ever saw kick a ball for Madrid's first team is Óscar Miñambres. Lucas ain't too far off tbh.

BarcaLearning wrote:Read Flo's quote above saying Real needs to go more with their youngsters rather than signing Galaticos, due to FFP. I seriously doubt its due to FFP though, is Flo short of money nowadays compared with past years? Whats the real reason u think? Zidane's influence? Whatever the case, u cant help but feel if Real fails this season, Flo will go back to his usual way and buy another fleet of Galaticos next season

Well, let me open up with a quote from the man himself from Madrid's 2017 Annual General Meeting:

Florentino Perez wrote:It is all the time getting more difficult to compete on a level playing field

Here, Florentino is directly referring to PSG and City and admitting that Madrid simply can't compete with them financially. The FFP rule was created specifically to protect Europe's elite clubs from being devoured to the bone by the oil clubs. And he's right, because compared to those two, Madrid is like a fart in a hurricane, and if you were to remove the FFP rule tomorrow, PSG and City would cannibalize everything on dry land, seas and everything in between.

Now, let's remember one thing: Florentino was the undisputed king of the transfer market back when true world beaters and Ballon d'Or winners used to cost at most €94m. It's when everything started to go north of €100m that he decided to pull the plugs on his Galactico policy:

Florentino Perez wrote:€100m is too much for any player

He said this during Madrid's negotiations with Spurs for Bale; a player he really, really, really wanted. And do you know how he ended up paying for the Welshman? With installments of €25m each paid over four years.  

And to this very day, he still hasn't paid more than €100m for any player. He may have offered more, but he still hasn't bought anybody for more than €100m. So if you really think about it, the reason Madrid stopped its Galactico policy and started leaning a little bit more towards youth is because Florentino doesn't want to go past a certain sum (with one small exception that I'll circle back to in the next paragraph). And given the fact that today any elite player would likely cost more than that, it's no surprise that you see the Vinicius and Bahims coming more through the Bernabeu gates than say the Neymar's and Mbappe's.

Now, why doesn't he want to go past that sum? It's simple: business. Florentino is a businessman first and foremost. He'll pay whatever it takes as long as he has a guarantee that he'll get a sizable return on his investment. In financial terms, that's a low-risk, high-return investment, and he absolutely thrives on those:

Florentino wrote:Kaká has given us a lot of money. When we made such a big investment we knew it was going to bring us revenue. From a financial point of view he's worked out quite well.

This explains why Madrid is no longer signing high-profile players, and in the rare moments they do, it's more than likely the target is in the last year of their contract.

Now, why is that? This brings back to PSG and City. Madrid, unlike those two money monsters, can't afford to have a failed investment. They have to make a profit to survive signing expensive players, otherwise they would go belly up faster than a melting snow cone in hell. Take now a moment and look around and tell me how many marketing goldmines do you see out there? How many Ronaldo's, how many Beckham's out there for Madrid to be absolutely certain that, regardless of their on-the-pitch performance, regardless of their price tag, they will have a return on their investment shortly after they sign them? Hardly any.

So there you have it. On the plus side, Madrid is pretty much guaranteed to never go back to the financial ruins they had to experience under Lorenzo Sanz with Florentino. On the downside, you can pretty much forget about them dropping more than 100m on any player unless they know for sure they will be getting their money back later + profit. Something that in today's inflated market is no longer guaranteed.

We spent a lot of money on plenty of flops DoC... James is the more recent. Danilo and Illaramendi are others.

The worlds are turned around imo. Barca is now the biggest club on the planet and we're trying to keep up. We can't compete with them (or won't) on fee... so we're spending on projects. Talented projects... but projects nonetheless.

Other than Hazard. I consider Jovic, Mendy and Militao as projects just to illustrate the current window. We may still get Neymar and that will change the trend.. but I'm not holding my breath.

Good to see you back lol

Thanks lol. It would be an absolute great joy if we hijack Neymar from Barca. I think it could happen.

that would be incredible.

some late rumours from Mundo Deportivo that we like Marc Roca as well.

the Pogba ship seems to have sailed. I admit i am genuinely surprised Perez didnt pay up for him, this is what i was betting on, Perez making Zidane happy and thanking him for coming back when the club was at his worst. I mean, it's clear Zidane made it his most important wish, so to see the club not pushing harder to sign him only makes sense if United said they are not selling no matter what. This is my reasoning at least, we dont have a lot of infos

Zidane has really mastered the art of trolling. The journalists are dying for some new information, but he's not giving them anything:

Zidane wrote:We are only thinking about the game tomorrow, that's all. The players I have are the ones who are here

If you read between the lines, he's basically telling them to go f themselves . That part in bold is black-belt level trolling.

sports must be proud.

Imagine believing Isco and Marcelo are good enough for this team

I understand its just preseason and whatnot but as Hala said new year, same problems for the past 2 years and nothing has been fixed