Preseason discussion

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Post by Doc Tue Aug 03, 2021 1:49 pm

@sportsczy wrote:The dutch striker was a certain Van Nistelrooy.  We also had a young Higuain pre-injury who had just scored 24 goals before CR arrived.

Not to mention a young Marcelo too who had his breakout season.

Our issue with not winning is that we changed managers like hot cakes...  and nowhere near the caliber of Mourinho, Carlo or Zidane.  We're talking Queiroz, Luzemburgo, Camacho, Ramon, Caro, Schuster and Juande Ramos.  The only proper manager in that group was Capello... and he had our team playing like we do now; so despite Capello winning, he was fired because we weren't sexy enough.

Forget the players, the biggest change was once Mourinho joined.  Despite him being a complete ass... he changed us to a winning mentality.  Not the players imo.  We always had great players.

Huntelaar, Jan Klass Huntelaar. Took me a whole day to remember (without googling). I can remember Van Nistelrooy, it was Huntelaar I had issues remembering. Also, clean forgot there was a very young and not fat Higuain and Marcelo there too.

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Post by halamadrid2 Sun Aug 08, 2021 7:33 pm

Much better game than the previous one

Marcelo still meh doe but much better efforts from him and Isco

Alaba and the rest of our CBs were excellent so were most of the players who played

We STILL need goals though. Jovic and Mariano are not cut out for a club like ours. Bale should be the back up striker

Arribas is one hell of a player btw. Man that guy has the ball stuck to his left foot like glue. He just needs to bulk up alittle
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Post by Doc Sun Aug 08, 2021 10:45 pm

Yeah the football on show was way better but finishing is still a major issue. I mean, duh right.
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Post by futbol_bill Sun Aug 08, 2021 11:19 pm

As far as finishing, Jovic and Mariano are not in plans at all (nor Ceballos). All three are likely to move, however they still need to deal with their salaries, let alone drastically reduced transfer prices. They likely have to give them away and still pay part of salary. The other option would be loan deals. At least 3 have to go, one way or another! they could possibly shed Odriozola and retain one of them!

So back to scoring possibilities. We basically have 3 declining levels of HOPE!

Level 1 - get Mbappe ( is remote, but I think Messi signing creates an opportunity in that PSG wants to renew him and the reported offer was 40M, which is the same salary Messi is reported to get. With Neymar getting 35M, the price for Mbappe is likely to create some tension for the other stars let alone, that salary load is bound to cause problems (even though Sports is on an outright denial campaign about this.) with salary share of operating budget.) Bottom line, this hope is valid, but more than likely the opportunity, if it does develop it is more likely next season not this one.

Level 2 - Bale and Hazard finally live up to their price tag and combine well with Benzema.

Level 3 - the kids; Vinicius, Rodrygo, plus Asensio suddenly break thru.
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Post by sportsczy Sun Aug 08, 2021 11:54 pm

Salary load is a problem for PSG ONLY if they spend a ton on transfers.  It's the combo.  It's actually cheaper for PSG to keep Mbappe and give him a fat contract then to try and buy some other player for 80-100 mil and also pay him a big salary, although a little less.

Just to put it in perspective in mathematical terms with a rumored replacement:
-  Pay 100 mil for Salah and pay him 20 million a season for 5 year is 200 million total with 100 million up front.
-  Keeping Mbappe for 5 seasons at 40 million per season is also 200 million, but with 0 up front.
>  In terms of time value of money, Mbappe's deal would be cheaper.
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Post by futbol_bill Mon Aug 09, 2021 12:25 am

You keep talking about transfer fees and yet it’s salaries that will be a problem. Take last year’s total salary load, whether it be the Uefa claimed amount you’ve used in another thread or the swiss quoted amount and add the salaries (the true cost to club, not the after tax amount players receive) for Messi, Ramos the other 5 additions plus Mbappe’s increase and DiMaria’s increase and tell me that total amount is not a concern!
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Post by titosantill Mon Aug 09, 2021 2:12 am

if mariano and jovic get sent away, umm may i ask who our back up cf will be? or is this going to be one of those 'play any midfielder/winger as a striker if benzema gets injured' type seasons?
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Post by sportsczy Mon Aug 09, 2021 2:40 am

@futbol_bill wrote:You keep talking about transfer fees and yet it’s salaries that will be a problem. Take last year’s total salary load, whether it be the Uefa claimed amount you’ve used in another thread or the swiss quoted amount and add the salaries (the true cost to club, not the after tax amount players receive) for Messi, Ramos the other 5 additions plus Mbappe’s increase and DiMaria’s increase and tell me that total amount is not a concern!
Cash flow and P&L both count for FFP.

Cash flow is better with no transfer fee.
P&L is the same since the transfer fee is depreciated over the life of the contract (5 years typically).

So paying 100 mil in upfront transfer fees + 100 mil in wages over 5 years is worse from a cash flow basis but the same in terms of P&L when compared to no transfer fees and 40 mil per year for 5 years.

Come on man. You're in finance.
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Post by FennecFox7 Mon Aug 09, 2021 7:30 am

This obsession for mbappe is just idiotic

He’s an amazing player, but psg clearly won’t budge and we don’t have the capital to really pay him.

We became a good team by building a TEAM, not simping over one player for years.

Gabriel Jesus would be a good buy and I would play him on the wing where he quite frankly looks much better. Bench vini. And play rodrygo. With Benz that’s a solid front three. Integrate odegaard and phase modric out.

Why the fans think one player solves all our problems I’ll never know. That’s not how football works and quite frankly psg, again, aren’t letting go of him
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Post by Myesyats Mon Aug 09, 2021 8:46 am

Mbappe would be retarded to leave now. He'll be playing with Neymar and Messi Laughing

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Post by halamadrid2 Mon Aug 09, 2021 9:28 am

Perez will never convince other teams to sign up to ESL if he goes and splashes 170ME on Mbappe.

He'll try to get him on a free transfer to make his point that European football will not survive without ESL

Odegaard has done nothing in his minutes so far this season to convince us he can take over from anyone. Our hope will lie on the same midfield 4 plus Isco this season

Odegaard was subbed in in the last 15 mins in a game where we made nearly 9 HT changes. This guy is clearly not in Carlo's plans
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Post by futbol_bill Mon Aug 09, 2021 1:24 pm

@sportsczy wrote:
@futbol_bill wrote:You keep talking about transfer fees and yet it’s salaries that will be a problem. Take last year’s total salary load, whether it be the Uefa claimed amount you’ve used in another thread or the swiss quoted amount and add the salaries (the true cost to club, not the after tax amount players receive) for Messi, Ramos the other 5 additions plus Mbappe’s increase and DiMaria’s increase and tell me that total amount is not a concern!
Cash flow and P&L both count for FFP.

Cash flow is better with no transfer fee.
P&L is the same since the transfer fee is depreciated over the life of the contract (5 years typically).  

So paying 100 mil in upfront transfer fees + 100 mil in wages over 5 years is worse from a cash flow basis but the same in terms of P&L when compared to no transfer fees and 40 mil per year for 5 years.

Come on man.  You're in finance.


As usual you avoid answering the question. I’m not talking about the useless ineffective UEFA FFP, I’m asking about salary load! I understand France has something similar to Spain in terms of not allowing the salary load  to take over the operating budget? You keep quoting questionable sources about last year’s salary.

But most probably the state of Quatar will just dump some more cash into operating budget under some mysterious new income stream and UEFA and France futbol will turn a blind eye to it!
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Post by futbol_bill Mon Aug 09, 2021 2:07 pm

For those of you questioning my saying Jovic, Mariano, Ceballos departing, I’m just stating what I have heard. The reality is 3 or 4 players have to depart (one way or another). I accept a few things Hala has said in past couple of days, that Isco won’t depart and that Odegaard is not stepping up. They can influence who stays or goes. Getting rid of both Jovic and Mariano only makes sense if a new striker, like Mbappe comes in. And by the way, i do agree that Mbappe won’t come this year. So in terms of departures, it is likely Odriozola will be the 3rd. And in other news, Vallejo will be the 4th CB with Chust loaned out to Cadiz.
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Post by sportsczy Mon Aug 09, 2021 2:54 pm

French League has a similar setup than Spain with one huge difference…. Club owners can cover any deficit to requirements with bank guarantees.  It’s a complete non-issue with PSG. They could literally buy to infinity here. It’s FFP that they plan around.
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Post by Valkyrja Mon Aug 09, 2021 2:59 pm

Huge expectations for Vinicius this season, he looked electric against Milan for his first game of the season. Should be his breakthrough this year.
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Post by futbol_bill Mon Aug 09, 2021 4:16 pm

You know if you look at our forward lineup, it isn’t as bad as we all make it out to be. Based on past performances (and ignoring the injuries and past disappearances) and the obvious talent in the kids, a lineup of Benzema, Hazard, Bale, Vinicius, Rodrygo, Jovic and Asensio isn’t a poor lineup. The issue is they collectively have’t done it and we’re putting a lot of hope into Anceloti to get most out of this. A lot depends on creativity (as well as finishing) and for this we need a lot from Modric, Isco, Odegaard, Hazard, Vinicius, Rodrygo and Asensio.
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Post by futbol_bill Mon Aug 09, 2021 4:19 pm

@sportsczy wrote:French League has a similar setup than Spain with one huge difference…. state of Quatar can easily cover any deficit to requirements by dumping more cash. It’s a complete non-issue with PSG. They could literally buy to infinity here. It’s FFP that they plan around.
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Post by Clutch Mon Aug 09, 2021 6:16 pm

@futbol_bill wrote:You know if you look at our forward lineup, it isn’t as bad as we all make it out to be. Based on past performances (and ignoring the injuries and past disappearances) and the obvious talent in the kids, a lineup of Benzema, Hazard, Bale, Vinicius, Rodrygo, Jovic and Asensio isn’t a poor lineup. The issue is they collectively have’t done it and we’re putting a lot of hope into Anceloti to get most out of this. A lot depends on creativity (as well as finishing) and for this we need a lot from Modric, Isco, Odegaard, Hazard, Vinicius, Rodrygo and Asensio.
we cant ignore injuries. That's the main problem imo. This team can compete but the fact of them being healthy and in form when we need them to be?? Plus Ancelotti plays only 11 players the whole season... I dont see it

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Post by Perucho21 Wed Aug 11, 2021 12:47 am

@Valkyrja wrote:Huge expectations for Vinicius this season, he looked electric against Milan for his first game of the season. Should be his breakthrough this year.


We've been saying that for past 3 years. If he flops this year sell him. Im already done with him but the club still has faith for some reason
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Post by Valkyrja Wed Aug 11, 2021 8:08 am

We have so many players who offer nada and you’re focused on Vinicius ?

At first, let’s get rid of the likes of bale hazard jovic mariano rodrygo isco ceballos lol
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Post by futbol_bill Wed Aug 11, 2021 1:51 pm

When are you guys going to accept the economic conditions of the club? The only players possibly leaving in the next month are Odriozola, Ceballos, possibly Odegaard (given his recent statements and under performances) Jovic, possibly Mariano (although he insist to claiming his 4M per year and refuses to budge even if club pays a portion of it).

I repeat the hope is Hazard and Bale suddenly be injury free and play consistently at their best level, that Benzema can produce consistently and that Vinicius, Rodrygo and Asensio suddenly start scoring.  And if all that fails, then we have Lucas waiting in reserve!

Expect the mass exits next summer or then again maybe not!

Edit, apparently the injury Ceballos had in Olympics is much worse than everyone thought. He’s out for at least 10 weeks, more than likely won’t be fit until Christmas. That essentially means club can’t sell him nor loan him! The squad numbers are becoming a problem (I count 26 including the practice GK but excluding any frpm Castilla esp. Blanco) with Mariano not receptive to a move and now this. Meanwhile there is apparently an offer from Arsenal for Odegaard being formulated. It looks like the only options are Odegaard, Jovic and Odriozola.
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Post by Perucho21 Thu Aug 12, 2021 2:31 am

@Valkyrja wrote:We have so many players who offer nada and you’re focused on Vinicius ?

At first, let’s get rid of the likes of bale hazard jovic mariano rodrygo isco ceballos lol


Well Vinicius is part of that group that offers nothing lol
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Post by halamadrid2 Thu Aug 12, 2021 1:23 pm

Incorrect. He does offer something just not goals for the moment
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Post by Doc Thu Aug 12, 2021 1:29 pm

Vini offers that explosiveness that can offset a defense. The issue is that you put a fullback that can keep up with him and/or a defender who knows how to deal with such things and what you get is a young man running himself into cul-de-sac time and time again.

Not to mention his lack of shooting ability (not finishing, shooting) and football acumen which hinders him, a lot. He's young but Madrid isn't a kindergarten so I have not much faith in him succeeding here.
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Post by Perucho21 Thu Aug 12, 2021 5:54 pm

@halamadrid2 wrote:Incorrect. He does offer something just not goals for the moment


You knows that matters the most,if he had scored a decent amount of goals La Liga could have been won and had a decent run in CDR. I aint asking for Ronaldo type numbers but enough to win crucial matches

Explosiveness can only get you so far. What we need and have needed are goals/assists from others besides Benzema. I'll add that I have not seen any significant improvements from his game and he has been here for 3 years.
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Post by futbol_bill Thu Aug 12, 2021 6:30 pm

Agreement reached with Ceballos, whereby he tays with club at least until January. He will be sold in January if a decent offer arrives. Otherwise he will be released next summer. This allows him to recover from his severe injury.

Also Arsenal is submitting an offer of 50M for Odegaard to which club will refuse saying they want at least 60M!
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