The Movie House - Part 4

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Post by dostoevsky Fri Feb 27, 2015 11:08 pm

Thanks for posting the Forbes article RO, interesting to great some proper perspective.

Also I saw Selma a few days ago, I'd highly recommend it.
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Post by Forza Sat Feb 28, 2015 1:14 am

RedOranje wrote:A fantastic article on the criticisms being leveled at superhero movies:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/markhughes/2015/02/27/tsunami-of-superheroes-is-just-a-drop-in-the-bucket

Mark Hughes wrote:I didn’t even list all of 2014′s good-to-great adult dramas mostly in the mid-budget range, but I was able to name 36 such films. How many superhero movies came out in 2014? Five. Even if we expand the count to include every movie based on a comic book, we get perhaps ten.


Notice that on those lists, there are about two dozen original concept films, by the way. So this notion that adult dramas, original stories, and mid-to-low budget films just don’t get made anymore, and that they are being pushed out of theaters by superhero movies, is fairly laughable. Notice, too, there were more mid-range budgeted adult drama adaptations than comic book adaptations, so those complaints about lack of originality in the superhero genre apparently apply many times more to supposedly superior critically praised adult dramas.


To put this even more clearly into perspective, consider this: every single superhero film releasing in the next six years (2015 through 2020) combined still doesn’t amount to the number of possible and actual Oscar-contending adult dramas released in 2014.

I think this article misses the point somewhat. There's a clear disconnect between some parts of the audience (myself included) and the sorts of films that are being produced and marketed by the big Hollywood studios. This is an issue that goes well beyond superhero films. It seems that studios are continually pushing the same teenage vampire flick, laugh-less rom-com, fantasy book-of-the-week adaptation or, yes, superhero movie. This is where the big studios' budgets are allocated for both film-making and marketing. And, financially speaking, who can blame them? After all, it's probably their most profitable market. It's little wonder that people think there is a "tsunami" of superhero movies when these are the films that are ones that are the most heavily promoted by far.
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Post by El Gunner Sat Feb 28, 2015 1:57 am

Don't call me James wrote:God I hope he wins an Oscar already. This could be the film he's been waiting for.

+1
Academy need to stop their hate.
Inb4heonlyreallydeservedoneOscarfromwhathehasdonesofar
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Post by RedOranje Sat Feb 28, 2015 2:05 am

Forza wrote:
RedOranje wrote:A fantastic article on the criticisms being leveled at superhero movies:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/markhughes/2015/02/27/tsunami-of-superheroes-is-just-a-drop-in-the-bucket

Mark Hughes wrote:I didn’t even list all of 2014′s good-to-great adult dramas mostly in the mid-budget range, but I was able to name 36 such films. How many superhero movies came out in 2014? Five. Even if we expand the count to include every movie based on a comic book, we get perhaps ten.


Notice that on those lists, there are about two dozen original concept films, by the way. So this notion that adult dramas, original stories, and mid-to-low budget films just don’t get made anymore, and that they are being pushed out of theaters by superhero movies, is fairly laughable. Notice, too, there were more mid-range budgeted adult drama adaptations than comic book adaptations, so those complaints about lack of originality in the superhero genre apparently apply many times more to supposedly superior critically praised adult dramas.


To put this even more clearly into perspective, consider this: every single superhero film releasing in the next six years (2015 through 2020) combined still doesn’t amount to the number of possible and actual Oscar-contending adult dramas released in 2014.

I think this article misses the point somewhat. There's a clear disconnect between some parts of the audience (myself included) and the sorts of films that are being produced and marketed by the big Hollywood studios. This is an issue that goes well beyond superhero films. It seems that studios are continually pushing the same teenage vampire flick, laugh-less rom-com, fantasy book-of-the-week adaptation or, yes, superhero movie. This is where the big studios' budgets are allocated for both film-making and marketing. And, financially speaking, who can blame them? After all, it's probably their most profitable market. It's little wonder that people think there is a "tsunami" of superhero movies when these are the films that are ones that are the most heavily promoted by far.


Except the article clearly proves that what you're saying simply isn't the case. Adult dramas (the serious, artistic, whatever other buzzwords you want to throw in here films that people believe are getting neglected) get just as much attention and time and production effort from the studios as the other types. In point of fact, the article clearly shows that there have been more of the dramas and other movies than the films they're apparently being overrun by... by a wide, wide margin.

"Some part of the audience" has a disconnect with adult dramas made specifically for awards season and yet you don't hear the ridiculous outcry and high-profile condescending criticism directed toward them that you do toward the superhero (and similar) genre(s).
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Post by El Gunner Sat Feb 28, 2015 2:12 am

I don't know why you guys are so surprised. Comic books are comic books, and many, many people couldn't give 2 shits about them, let alone take them seriously. Now when comic books transcend into another medium, the "hardcore fans" of that medium will definitely not be to kind to that.

And I don't think it has ever been a case of the superhero movies outweighing the adult drama films numerically, but the way these comic book adaptations gets hyped about and buzzed about and takes the shine away from the medium's general and main genre.
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Post by Freeza Sat Feb 28, 2015 3:27 am

General and main genre? Not really, only time it's a main genre is when the academy votes.
The general movie going crowd is just not interested in going to watch these kinds of movies, which is why superhero movies are so popular, because they are fun while also being good movies mostly.

People who uses these argument are pretty much all ignorant pretentious snobs. It's fine to say you don't like them, just stop using superhero movies as an argument for the other films not getting attention.

Superhero can only be seen as a positive imho. They make an insane amount of money from both ticket sales and merchandising, which can be used to make different and more risky movies. If a studio didn't make those moneys, no way they would even try to make a risky property in this day and age of Hollywood.

I would rather watch the awful TASM2 than Theory of Everything again tbh, which is as unoriginal as anything, as most of these academy pleasing dramas are. There's an insane amount of these every year, yet they're praised despite following a 50+ year formula.

Also the notion that the studios only push Superhero movies is awful.
They push every kind of genre that applies to any type of person. Some people are just annoyed that everything is not catering to their taste. What kind of genre aren't the studios marketing? Seen a great deal of marketing for Imitation Game, Birdman, Boyhood, 50 Shades, Transformers, Focus, Lego Movie, American Sniper, Godzilla, Interstellar, 22 Jumpstreet. If you can't fint anything that appeals to you there, that's maybe a knock on you. A handfull of superhero movies isn't a problem. The real problem in Hollywood is diversity, not anough movies made with different races etc.

Also what has it been.. 8-9 months since the last superhero movie was in theaters.. I think we can manage not getting fatigued Laughing I could have seen 3-4 and still wanted more in that time. The 3 last months of the year are usually ALL dramas, not a single fun movie among them. The first 3 months of the year are usually 90% awful movies. Think it would be generally beneficial to spread out the films more.
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Post by MJ Sun Mar 01, 2015 4:56 pm

Never posted in this thread but has anyone watched Tombstone? Just did for the first time last night, good movie, lots of memorable one liners but Val Kilmer was just :bow:

"Why, Johnny Ringo, you look like somebody just walked over your grave."

Such a shame the way his career turned out, he's actually a very good actor, just made some dodgy career choices.
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Post by Freeza Sun Mar 01, 2015 4:58 pm

Watched Being John Malkovich today..

Wat rofl Laughing


Great freaking movie 4.5/5.

Also rewatched my favourite of 2014, Nightcrawler Proud

Gyllenhaal still robbed.
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Post by dostoevsky Sun Mar 01, 2015 10:31 pm

MJ wrote:Never posted in this thread but has anyone watched Tombstone? Just did for the first time last night, good movie, lots of memorable one liners but Val Kilmer was just :bow:

"Why, Johnny Ringo, you look like somebody just walked over your grave."

Such a shame the way his career turned out, he's actually a very good actor, just made some dodgy career choices.

I saw Tombstone years and years ago and I remember enjoying it but I barely remember any of it. I should definitely find the time to rewatch it.
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Post by El Gunner Mon Mar 02, 2015 4:16 am

Freeza wrote:Watched Being John Malkovich today..

Wat rofl Laughing


Great freaking movie 4.5/5.

Also rewatched my favourite of 2014, Nightcrawler Proud

Gyllenhaal still robbed.

Talking about favs, I've decided on my 2014 top 10
1. Citizenfour
2. Gone Girl
3. Fury
4. Boyhood
5. Enemy
6. Nightcrawler
7. Foxcatcher
8. Guardians of the Galaxy
9. The Fault in Our Stars
10. Love Is Strange

Half-decade is gone, so here are my favs from each year:
2010 - Inception
2011 - A Separation / Drive
2012 - The Dark Knight Rises
2013 - Prisoners
2014 - Citizenfour
:bow:
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Post by MJ Mon Mar 02, 2015 7:06 am

dostoevsky wrote:
MJ wrote:Never posted in this thread but has anyone watched Tombstone? Just did for the first time last night, good movie, lots of memorable one liners but Val Kilmer was just :bow:

"Why, Johnny Ringo, you look like somebody just walked over your grave."

Such a shame the way his career turned out, he's actually a very good actor, just made some dodgy career choices.

I saw Tombstone years and years ago and I remember enjoying it but I barely remember any of it. I should definitely find the time to rewatch it.


Val Kilmer makes it all worth it. That was his prime.
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Post by Forza Mon Mar 02, 2015 8:12 am

RedOranje wrote:
Forza wrote:
RedOranje wrote:A fantastic article on the criticisms being leveled at superhero movies:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/markhughes/2015/02/27/tsunami-of-superheroes-is-just-a-drop-in-the-bucket



I think this article misses the point somewhat. There's a clear disconnect between some parts of the audience (myself included) and the sorts of films that are being produced and marketed by the big Hollywood studios. This is an issue that goes well beyond superhero films. It seems that studios are continually pushing the same teenage vampire flick, laugh-less rom-com, fantasy book-of-the-week adaptation or, yes, superhero movie. This is where the big studios' budgets are allocated for both film-making and marketing. And, financially speaking, who can blame them? After all, it's probably their most profitable market. It's little wonder that people think there is a "tsunami" of superhero movies when these are the films that are ones that are the most heavily promoted by far.


Except the article clearly proves that what you're saying simply isn't the case.  Adult dramas (the serious, artistic, whatever other buzzwords you want to throw in here films that people believe are getting neglected) get just as much attention and time and production effort from the studios as the other types.  In point of fact, the article clearly shows that there have been more of the dramas and other movies than the films they're apparently being overrun by... by a wide, wide margin.

"Some part of the audience" has a disconnect with adult dramas made specifically for awards season and yet you don't hear the ridiculous outcry and high-profile condescending criticism directed toward them that you do toward the superhero (and similar) genre(s).

I understand that so-called "adult dramas" outnumber superhero movies, but that wasn't my point.

Superhero movies are one of several genres of movies that are better funded and better marketed than adult dramas. When an adult drama gets off the ground, it isn't lavished with anywhere near the financial attention from film studios as a superhero movie. Compare the $200 million budget of Iron Man 3 to the $8.5 million budget of Nightcrawler (a film which highlights the problem with the term "adult drama" - I would call it neo-noir). In my opinion, the latter was a far more interesting film. You are welcome to disagree, but that's also besides the point. I think Nightcrawler was well made, original, unpredictable, coherent and an edgy social commentary on modern journalism all whilst documenting the rise of an anti-hero (which is ironic considering the discussion we're having now). It wasn't made to win awards or because it was the next instalment of a franchise, it was just made because it was a story that was there to be told.

The investment in Iron Man 3 allowed it to make take $1.2 billion at the box office since it's release in May 2013 - 6x the budget. It's also the 6th highest-grossing film of all time. Meanwhile, Nightcrawler only made a measly $38.7 million at the box office, 4.5x its budget. You do start to wonder what kind of world it would be if as much money were devoted to making and marketing films like Nightcrawler instead... sigh.
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Post by Freeza Mon Mar 02, 2015 11:13 am

Comparing the budget of a blockbuster movie and an "artistic" drama is nothing short of idiotic. If they had the same budget they could only use the full 200m$ if they burnt the last 140m$ anyway. If you want to compare, it needs to be on the budget each movie uses on marketing. The huge budget of blockbuster films are mainly due to how many people that are working on the set of that movie, they have to pay thousands of workers, get parts of cities shut down, use loads of money on cgi and practical effects. I fail to see how a drama could utilize those amounts.

Also comparing Iron Man 3 (the worst Marvel film to date imo) to Nightcrawler is ridiculous. Compare the best with the best atleast, if you want to compare quality. That's like comparing The Judge and Captain America 2, and I don't know who would say the former is the most interesting of the 2.

The marketing budget spent on the dramas are huge in october through february, so I can't see a problem.

One fact is, if you want to watch a drama from 2014, you could spend entire weeks and even months watching them all, while combined superhero movies from entire year can take a weekend at most to watch.
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Post by M99 Mon Mar 02, 2015 11:51 am

My half decade list.

2010- Inception
2011- Drive
2012- The Dark Knight Rises
2013- The Wolf Of Wall Street
2014- Boyhood

Did not watch Citizenfour yet hmm
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Post by Freeza Mon Mar 02, 2015 11:58 am

2010: The Social Network
2011: Drive (horrible year)
2012: The Place Beyond the Pines/Perks of Being A Wallflower
2013: Her
2014: Nightcrawler

Gosling with a double hmm
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Post by LeVersacci Mon Mar 02, 2015 12:09 pm

2015: Fifty Shades of Grey
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Post by Freeza Mon Mar 02, 2015 12:10 pm

LeVersacci wrote:2015: Fifty Shades of Grey


Ma gurl Proud

Watching that rape movie
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Post by LeVersacci Mon Mar 02, 2015 12:34 pm

Just seen the infinity teaser for avengers (Didn't even know there was one lmao)

All I have to say is RIP DC ffs.

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Post by Freeza Mon Mar 02, 2015 12:39 pm

LeVersacci wrote:Just seen the infinity teaser for avengers (Didn't even know there was one lmao)

All I have to say is RIP DC ffs.



Infinity teaser? wat.

Also, please stop this DC vs. Marvel things again, nothing good comes out of it, and DC has still (yes) only made 1 movie
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Post by Kaladin Mon Mar 02, 2015 12:46 pm

2010: The Social Network
2011: Xmen 1st Class
2012: Silver linings playbook
2013: wolf of wall street
2014: Nightcrawler
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Post by RealGunner Mon Mar 02, 2015 1:05 pm

2010: Inception
2011: X Men First Class/Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows - Part 2
2012: The Dark Knight Rises
2013: Man Of Steel/Frozen
2014: Interstellar
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Post by Freeza Mon Mar 02, 2015 1:22 pm

Amazing you had a movie for each year
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Post by RealGunner Mon Mar 02, 2015 1:24 pm

lmfao struggled so badly for 2012 and 2013 rofl

Saw like 4 movies.

2014 was a great year though. Watched at least 8 films Proud
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Post by Freeza Mon Mar 02, 2015 1:28 pm

RealGunner wrote:lmfao struggled so badly for 2012 and 2013 rofl

Saw like 4 movies.

2014 was a great year though. Watched at least 8 films Proud


You're the prime example of the average male cinema goer tbh. Watches a couple a year, and prefers blockbusters Proud

Chosing Frozen and Man of Steel Proud

This year will be so freaking great. Need to up your numbers imo. 4 boxing movies coming out.
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Post by RealGunner Mon Mar 02, 2015 1:35 pm

I only started going to cinema since 2010(Inception) after my mate forced me. Now we watch every comic book film or highly rated films.

This year we have these lined up

Avengers
F4
Star Wars Episode 7(maybe)
Jurassic World
Mad Max(maybe)
MI5
Ant-Man


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