The Lionel Messi Appreciation Thread & Fan Club II

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Post by Harmonica Sun Jul 05, 2015 8:46 pm

Viru wrote:Is it true that messi reject the Player of the tournament trophy
Like a baws. Proud

http://elcomercio.pe/deporte-total/copa-america-2015/lionel-messi-rechazo-premio-al-mejor-jugador-copa-america-noticia-1823640

Heard that Cronaldo called to Copa to announce his interest to the award.

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Post by Harmonica Sun Jul 05, 2015 8:52 pm

Messi (WC14, CA15) is the fourth player after Jose Nasazzi (WC30, CA23/35), Pele (WC70, CA59-1) and Ronaldo (WC98, CA97) to win the best player award in both World Cup and Copa America.
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Post by titosantill Sun Jul 05, 2015 9:14 pm

only a staunch messi fan or anybody who didn't watch the 2014 world cup nor the 2015 copa america would find that impressive
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Post by Harmonica Sun Jul 05, 2015 9:17 pm

titosantill wrote:only a staunch messi fan or anybody who didn't watch the 2014 world cup nor the 2015 copa america would find that impressive
Anyone who's watched and analyzed both WC70 and WC98 know Messi has much better claim to the Golden Ball than Pele or Ronaldo.

Goals - Chances Created - Dribbles - Tackles - WC70

4 - 28 - 16 - 9 - Pele
7 - 13 - 47 - 4 - Jairzinho
10 - 14 - 4 - 0 - Gerd Müller

Goals - Chances Created - Dribbles - Tackles - WC98

4 - 7 - 16 - 3 - Ronaldo
6 - 9 - 15 - 6 - Suker
3 - 18 - 17 - 6 - Rivaldo
2 - 19 - 20 - 10 - De Boer

Goals - Chances Created - Dribbles - Tackles - WC14

4 - 23 - 46 - 9 - Messi
5 - 17 - 12 - 7 - Müller
3 - 17 - 34 - 2 - Robben
6 - 11 - 15 - 6 - James
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Post by titosantill Sun Jul 05, 2015 9:31 pm

didn't watch 1970, and didn't care for ronaldo winning the 98 golden ball either, not all tournaments necessarily have to have a best player imo especially if nobody stood heads and shoulders above everyone (not by dribbles completed, or shots that hit the bar, or goals ALMOST scored) i prefer the way the nba hands out its playoff mvp award. football has done a good job of handing out consolatory prizes.....as someone who's not at all a fan of messi's, i'm proud of him for rejecting those prizes....if not anything, it shows the man has standards. and as an aside, its about time they scrapped third and fourth place matches imo
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Post by farfan Sun Jul 05, 2015 9:32 pm

De boer should've won the golden ball in WC 1998 then ? a new low even by Harmonica's standards . Laughing
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Post by Harmonica Sun Jul 05, 2015 9:41 pm

Overall contribution based on 4 of the most important statistic, not too hard to grasp surely.
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Post by farfan Sun Jul 05, 2015 9:49 pm

Harmonica wrote:Overall contribution based on 4 of the most important statistic, not too hard to grasp surely.

here's a simple fact that you don't seem to grasp :

statistics don't mean squat .
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Post by Kaladin Sun Jul 05, 2015 9:52 pm

Iskaral Pust Proud
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Post by Harmonica Sun Jul 05, 2015 9:53 pm

Maybe in fantasy, your post is actually complete fiction, and that's actually a fact.
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Post by farfan Sun Jul 05, 2015 10:29 pm

the fantasy land is the world where Loic Perrin is the best defender in the world .
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Post by Harmonica Sun Jul 05, 2015 10:30 pm

In the series of completely trivial things. Laughing
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Post by farfan Sun Jul 05, 2015 10:30 pm

El Shaarawy wrote:Iskaral Pust Proud


explain ths nerd stuff please .
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Post by farfan Sun Jul 05, 2015 10:31 pm

Harmonica wrote:In the series of completely trivial things. Laughing


" stats only matter when they're about my favorite player "

got it . hmm
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Post by Donuts Sun Jul 05, 2015 10:33 pm

http://iruntheinternet.com/lulzdump/images/gifs/tiny-kids-fighting-judo-punching-1381877033C.gif

the summer discussions are so boring nothing but repeating the same old things
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Post by farfan Sun Jul 05, 2015 10:34 pm

Donuts wrote:http://iruntheinternet.com/lulzdump/images/gifs/tiny-kids-fighting-judo-punching-1381877033C.gif

the summer discussions are so boring nothing but repeating the same old things


change that AV please . :facepalm:
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Post by Valkyrja Sun Jul 05, 2015 10:36 pm

ahmad25 wrote:I have watched (replay) all maradona games in tournaments. For me he looks slow version of messi he was not as explosive

Anyway knee jerk will continue for some weeks. Everytime messi plays bad he is shit. When he scores amazing goal he is better than maradona.  I have seen all here


How the hell do you expect a footballer who played in the 80s to be as fast, strong explosive as one who plays in the 2015 ... It's not about who is faster or who dribbles better... It's about the impact the player makes

Regarding the 50% 70% 100% involvement in the team's goals, shouldn't we take into consideration the stages which the goals were scored in ? Because as far as I can remember Messi has around 0 goals in the KO stages of an international tournament
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Post by Harmonica Sun Jul 05, 2015 10:42 pm

farfan wrote:
Harmonica wrote:In the series of completely trivial things. Laughing


" stats only matter when they're about my favorite player "

got it . hmm
I'm sure you will now produce the relation between Luic Perrin and Messi/Pele/Ronaldo in the 4 most important statistic.

Laughing
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Post by Harmonica Sun Jul 05, 2015 10:44 pm

Valkyrja wrote:
ahmad25 wrote:I have watched (replay) all maradona games in tournaments. For me he looks slow version of messi he was not as explosive

Anyway knee jerk will continue for some weeks. Everytime messi plays bad he is shit. When he scores amazing goal he is better than maradona.  I have seen all here


How the hell do you expect a footballer who played in the 80s to be as fast, strong explosive as one who plays in the 2015 ... It's not about who is faster or who dribbles better... It's about the impact the player makes

Regarding the 50% 70% 100% involvement in the team's goals, shouldn't we take into consideration the stages which the goals were scored in ? Because as far as I can remember Messi has around 0 goals in the KO stages of an international tournament
Take Pele´s goals out of WC70, nothing changes, Brazil wins World Cup. Take Messi's goals out of WC14 and Argentina gets eliminated in the group phase.

Goals in KO-stage or other wikipedia-arguments are the worst arguments ever for playing good. There's an awful lot more happening in the games than what you can read in scoring lists.
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Post by ahmad25 Sun Jul 05, 2015 10:48 pm

Valkyrja wrote:
ahmad25 wrote:I have watched (replay) all maradona games in tournaments. For me he looks slow version of messi he was not as explosive

Anyway knee jerk will continue for some weeks. Everytime messi plays bad he is shit. When he scores amazing goal he is better than maradona.  I have seen all here


How the hell do you expect a footballer who played in the 80s to be as fast, strong explosive as one who plays in the 2015 ... It's not about who is faster or who dribbles better... It's about the impact the player makes

Regarding the 50% 70% 100% involvement in the team's goals, shouldn't we take into consideration the stages which the goals were scored in ? Because as far as I can remember Messi has around 0 goals in the KO stages of an international tournament
he was talking about involvement in goals not goals. Messi has 7-8 direct assists in KO stages if im not mistaken. You are talking about messi dude not some scrub one dimensioal scorer.if he doesnt score he does something else

Anyway theres nothing maradona or pele can do but messi cant. What they won was team effort. After this 2015 season im convinced that messi is the best ever. This guy has pele level scoring, maradona level dribbling, xavi level passing all combined in one man. No player ever had all in one at this level. The man won ballon dor and CL as a winger year after as a forward and now as a playmaker. Nobody did this before. if messi chokes its because he is triple marked out of the game. in barca others take advantage of this. in argentina they try to pass the balls to marked messi instead of using that space

For you he is a choker.for me he is best ever.lets get over it
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Post by Based Bonera Sun Jul 05, 2015 10:49 pm

If Messi ever does something good in a World cup, he'll be without a doubt THE GOAT.

Time will tell. Hes still got couple of years.
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Post by Valkyrja Sun Jul 05, 2015 10:49 pm

Harmonica wrote:
Valkyrja wrote:
ahmad25 wrote:I have watched (replay) all maradona games in tournaments. For me he looks slow version of messi he was not as explosive

Anyway knee jerk will continue for some weeks. Everytime messi plays bad he is shit. When he scores amazing goal he is better than maradona.  I have seen all here


How the hell do you expect a footballer who played in the 80s to be as fast, strong explosive as one who plays in the 2015 ... It's not about who is faster or who dribbles better... It's about the impact the player makes

Regarding the 50% 70% 100% involvement in the team's goals, shouldn't we take into consideration the stages which the goals were scored in ? Because as far as I can remember Messi has around 0 goals in the KO stages of an international tournament
Take Pele´s goals out of WC70, nothing changes, Brazil wins World Cup. Take Messi's goals out of WC14 and Argentina gets eliminated in the group phase.

Goals in KO-stage or other wikipedia-arguments are the worst arguments ever for playing good. There's an awful lot more happening in the games than what you can read in scoring lists.


So Argentina wouldn't have gone past the group stage, competing against Iran, Bosnia and Nigeria ?

This is more plausible: Take Maradona out and Argentina wouldn't have won against England in 86.

Brazil won in 70 with Pele but lost in 74 without him...

Goals in Ko stages do not matter ? I'm done here Laughing
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Post by Great Leader Sprucenuce Sun Jul 05, 2015 10:51 pm

Something good Laughing He got to a final lol, anyone else in history that would be considered something good.

I'm not particularly in the mood to argue who the best ever but i honestly don't believe it makes a difference at this point if he wins the WC in his career or not.

If you think he's the GOAT then fair enough but if you don't then one game in his entire career shouldn't sway you.
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Post by farfan Sun Jul 05, 2015 10:53 pm

Harmonica wrote:
farfan wrote:
Harmonica wrote:In the series of completely trivial things. Laughing


" stats only matter when they're about my favorite player "

got it . hmm
I'm sure you will now produce the relation between Luic Perrin and Messi/Pele/Ronaldo in the 4 most important statistic.

Laughing


i was talking about stats in general , not just offensive players .
the defensive stats that you swear by and posted in this very forum told us that Perrin is the best defender in the world .
why would anyone take your drivel seriously or waste time with some " involved in X amount of goals " garbage after that ? rofl
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Post by Based Bonera Sun Jul 05, 2015 10:55 pm

Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:Something good Laughing He got to a final lol, anyone else in history that would be considered something good.

I'm not particularly in the mood to argue who the best ever but i honestly don't believe it makes a difference at this point if he wins the WC in his career or not.

If you think he's the GOAT then fair enough but if you don't then one game in his entire career shouldn't sway you.


I'm trolling a bit when i say that.

But i've never been a fan of the opinion of Messi being the best EVER and it would take a lot for me to sway that opinion. He doesn't pass the eye test for me which Maradona, R9, etc. did.
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Post by Harmonica Sun Jul 05, 2015 10:56 pm

Aah the general, condenced into irrelevant. Seen that, but not done it. Shocked
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