The Lionel Messi Appreciation Thread & Fan Club II

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Post by Harmonica Sun Jul 05, 2015 10:56 pm

Aah the general, condenced into irrelevant. Seen that, but not done it. Shocked

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Post by Great Leader Sprucenuce Sun Jul 05, 2015 10:59 pm

Based Bonera wrote:
Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:Something good Laughing He got to a final lol, anyone else in history that would be considered something good.

I'm not particularly in the mood to argue who the best ever but i honestly don't believe it makes a difference at this point if he wins the WC in his career or not.

If you think he's the GOAT then fair enough but if you don't then one game in his entire career shouldn't sway you.


I'm trolling a bit when i say that.

But i've never been a fan of the opinion of Messi being the best EVER and it would take a lot for me to sway that opinion. He doesn't pass the eye test for me which Maradona, R9, etc. did.


So lets say he beat Germany would it sway your opinion?

Because i'm saying it shouldn't IMO, it's one game in a massively successful body of work. Personally if you don't think he's the best then you never will and vice versa.
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Post by Valkyrja Sun Jul 05, 2015 11:01 pm

Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:Something good Laughing He got to a final lol, anyone else in history that would be considered something good.

I'm not particularly in the mood to argue who the best ever but i honestly don't believe it makes a difference at this point if he wins the WC in his career or not.

If you think he's the GOAT then fair enough but if you don't then one game in his entire career shouldn't sway you.


We all know how good and talented Messi is, personally he's the best player I've ever seen along with R9... But the WC is the biggest stage in world football, that's basically were legends are made(I'm not saying that Messi isn't a football legend, because he certainly is). All great players left their mark on this tournament. Details like scoring a goal in the WC final, have a performance in the final like Zidane had in 98, a moment of genius like Maradona in 86, R9 in 02 define greatness. People will always remember those things. In 20, 30, 50 years people won't think of Higgy missing that one on one, they will think of Messi losing to Germany


Last edited by Valkyrja on Sun Jul 05, 2015 11:02 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post by Harmonica Sun Jul 05, 2015 11:02 pm

Valkyrja wrote:
Harmonica wrote:
Valkyrja wrote:


How the hell do you expect a footballer who played in the 80s to be as fast, strong explosive as one who plays in the 2015 ... It's not about who is faster or who dribbles better... It's about the impact the player makes

Regarding the 50% 70% 100% involvement in the team's goals, shouldn't we take into consideration the stages which the goals were scored in ? Because as far as I can remember Messi has around 0 goals in the KO stages of an international tournament
Take Pele´s goals out of WC70, nothing changes, Brazil wins World Cup. Take Messi's goals out of WC14 and Argentina gets eliminated in the group phase.

Goals in KO-stage or other wikipedia-arguments are the worst arguments ever for playing good. There's an awful lot more happening in the games than what you can read in scoring lists.


So Argentina wouldn't have gone past the group stage, competing against Iran, Bosnia and Nigeria ?

This is more plausible: Take Maradona out and Argentina wouldn't have won against England in 86.

Brazil won in 70 with Pele but lost in 74 without him...

Goals in Ko stages do not matter ? I'm done here Laughing
That's how bad they were.

Take Maradona's Hand of Cheater away and there's a chance "Maradona never performed for Argentina"

Brazil didn't lose a beat in wc62 when Pele got injured.
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Post by farfan Sun Jul 05, 2015 11:03 pm

it'll be interesting to see what will stand the test of time , Messi's goals agaisnt the mighty Bosnia, Nigeria, Iran, Serbia and the number of goals he was involved in , or Pele and Maradona's achievements . Proud
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Post by ahmad25 Sun Jul 05, 2015 11:04 pm

Who needs goals when you create 20 chances per game?
This stat is from Del Bosque who won the wc 2010

"Apart from our own [players] I preferred Messi. Each game he played he made 20 chances to score, he is a phenomenon," said Del Bosque, as quoted by Sport.

"We would have liked it to have been one of us. Messi deserves the Golden Ball more than Forlan."
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Post by ahmad25 Sun Jul 05, 2015 11:05 pm

farfan wrote:it'll be interesting to see what will stand the test of time , Messi's goals agaisnt the mighty Bosnia, Nigeria, Iran, Serbia and the number of goals he was involved in , or Pele and Maradona's achievements . Proud

Messi's 6 CL and 7 Ballon dor will outhsine what pele and maradona did combined :bow:
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Post by Great Leader Sprucenuce Sun Jul 05, 2015 11:06 pm

farfan wrote:it'll be interesting to see what will stand the test of time , Messi's goals agaisnt the mighty Bosnia, Nigeria, Iran, Serbia and the number of goals he was involved in , or Pele and Maradona's achievements . Proud


I'm pretty sure being one of the most decorated footballers in the history of club football will stand the test of time....

I forgot tho, dat world cup.


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Post by Based Bonera Sun Jul 05, 2015 11:06 pm

Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:
Based Bonera wrote:
Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:Something good Laughing He got to a final lol, anyone else in history that would be considered something good.

I'm not particularly in the mood to argue who the best ever but i honestly don't believe it makes a difference at this point if he wins the WC in his career or not.

If you think he's the GOAT then fair enough but if you don't then one game in his entire career shouldn't sway you.


I'm trolling a bit when i say that.

But i've never been a fan of the opinion of Messi being the best EVER and it would take a lot for me to sway that opinion. He doesn't pass the eye test for me which Maradona, R9, etc. did.


So lets say he beat Germany would it sway your opinion?

Because i'm saying it shouldn't IMO, it's one game in a massively successful body of work. Personally if you don't think he's the best then you never will and vice versa.


If he would have played out of his mind and actually did help Argentina win the world cup, then of course i would. It would be a huge feat. But thats neither here or there since he didnt. But theres always the next world cup and im sure it will define his legacy.
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Post by Great Leader Sprucenuce Sun Jul 05, 2015 11:08 pm

Based Bonera wrote:
Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:
Based Bonera wrote:

I'm trolling a bit when i say that.

But i've never been a fan of the opinion of Messi being the best EVER and it would take a lot for me to sway that opinion. He doesn't pass the eye test for me which Maradona, R9, etc. did.


So lets say he beat Germany would it sway your opinion?

Because i'm saying it shouldn't IMO, it's one game in a massively successful body of work. Personally if you don't think he's the best then you never will and vice versa.


If he would have played out of his mind and actually did help Argentina win the world cup, then of course i would. It would be a huge feat. But thats neither here or there since he didnt. But theres always the next world cup and im sure it will define his legacy.


I'm just saying though, he was one game away from doing it and i don't care how good it is or how much of a feat it's deemed to be i don't believe one game should outshine what he's already done.

One game shouldn't have that much impact, positively or negatively.
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Post by Valkyrja Sun Jul 05, 2015 11:08 pm

ahmad25 wrote:Who needs goals when you create 20 chances per game?
This stat is from Del Bosque who won the wc 2010

"Apart from our own [players] I preferred Messi. Each game he played he made 20 chances to score, he is a phenomenon," said Del Bosque, as quoted by Sport.

"We would have liked it to have been one of us. Messi deserves the Golden Ball more than Forlan."


Nobody cares. Nobody *bleep* cares about that. That's what I'm trying to say. There is nothing memorable about creating chances against the likes of Mexico. Memorable is Maradona vs England or Zidane vs Brazil in 98. Take the game on your shoulders and dominate.
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Post by farfan Sun Jul 05, 2015 11:09 pm

Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:
farfan wrote:it'll be interesting to see what will stand the test of time , Messi's goals agaisnt the mighty Bosnia, Nigeria, Iran, Serbia and the number of goals he was involved in , or Pele and Maradona's achievements . Proud


I'm pretty sure being one of the most decorated footballers in the history of club football will stand the test of time....

I forgot tho, dat world cup.



we're talking about international football .
some morons genuinely believe that Messi's contribution to his NT exceeded that of Pele and Maradona .
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Post by Based Bonera Sun Jul 05, 2015 11:11 pm

Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:
Based Bonera wrote:
Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:

So lets say he beat Germany would it sway your opinion?

Because i'm saying it shouldn't IMO, it's one game in a massively successful body of work. Personally if you don't think he's the best then you never will and vice versa.


If he would have played out of his mind and actually did help Argentina win the world cup, then of course i would. It would be a huge feat. But thats neither here or there since he didnt. But theres always the next world cup and im sure it will define his legacy.


I'm just saying though, he was one game away from doing it and i don't care how good it is or how much of a feat it's deemed to be i don't believe one game should outshine what he's already done.

One game shouldn't have that much impact, positively or negatively.


That's your opinion and thats fine.

I totally disagree that Messi is the best player in the entire history of football. For now
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Post by Great Leader Sprucenuce Sun Jul 05, 2015 11:12 pm

I never said he was hmm
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Post by jibers Sun Jul 05, 2015 11:13 pm

Who cares. Messi will never be THE GOAT because all the GOATs have thins over each other. He is up there with the best. People need to stop this GOAT debate.

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Post by Great Leader Sprucenuce Sun Jul 05, 2015 11:15 pm

Disagree tbh, Maldini is the best trequartista of all time. (:
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Post by Based Bonera Sun Jul 05, 2015 11:16 pm

Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:I never said he was hmm


Luv u 2 bro....<3
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Post by Based Bonera Sun Jul 05, 2015 11:17 pm

Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:Disagree tbh, Maldini is the best trequartista of all time. (:


He was a GK. Wow, do u even futbol?
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Post by futbol Sun Jul 05, 2015 11:19 pm

Based Bonera wrote:
Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:Disagree tbh, Maldini is the best trequartista of all time. (:


Wow, do u even futbol?

Pls go.

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Post by Great Leader Sprucenuce Sun Jul 05, 2015 11:20 pm

Let's not get into technicalities.
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Post by ahmad25 Sun Jul 05, 2015 11:21 pm

Valkyrja wrote:
ahmad25 wrote:Who needs goals when you create 20 chances per game?
This stat is from Del Bosque who won the wc 2010

"Apart from our own [players] I preferred Messi. Each game he played he made 20 chances to score, he is a phenomenon," said Del Bosque, as quoted by Sport.

"We would have liked it to have been one of us. Messi deserves the Golden Ball more than Forlan."


Nobody cares. Nobody *bleep* cares about that. That's what I'm trying to say. There is nothing memorable about creating chances against the likes of Mexico. Memorable is Maradona vs England or Zidane vs Brazil in 98. Take the game on your shoulders and dominate.
yeah that goal made maradona GOAT. it happens once with messi happened many times but not in international team. This is just luck it will happen unexpected

as i said you think messi is a choker and it will not change. No need to argue furthermore
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Post by Donuts Sun Jul 05, 2015 11:25 pm

farfan wrote:
change that AV please . :facepalm:

why :/ i support barca's best player.
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Post by farfan Sun Jul 05, 2015 11:30 pm

Donuts wrote:
farfan wrote:
change that AV please . :facepalm:

why :/ i support barca's best player.


i'll eventually end up punching a hole in my screen if you keep it Sad
but you're right , barça's best left back imo .
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Post by Harmonica Wed Jul 08, 2015 5:58 pm

Copa America MVP

Goals (Scored + Assisted + Involved)

CA15 Messi 10 (1 + 3 + 6) out of 10 team goals = 100% importance (+2 SO goals), runner-up
CA11 Suarez 6 (4 + 2 + 0) out of 9 team goals = 67% importance (+1 SO goal), champion
CA07 Robinho 10 (6 + 0 + 4) out of 15 team goals = 67% importance (+1 SO goal), champion
CA04 Adriano 9 (7 + 2 + 0) out of 13 team goals = 69% importance (+2 SO goals), champion
CA01 Guevara 5 (3 + 1 + 1) out of 7 team goals = 71% importance, 3rd
CA99 Rivaldo 8 (5 + 2 + 1) out of 17 team goals = 47% importance, champion
CA97 Ronaldo 9 (5 + 2 + 2) out of 22 team goals = 41% importance, champion

hmm
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Post by farfan Wed Jul 08, 2015 6:08 pm

rofl
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Post by Great Leader Sprucenuce Wed Jul 08, 2015 6:09 pm

I'm not defending this Laughing
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