Can Someone Tell Me What's the point of Religion?

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Post by El Gunner Tue Oct 21, 2014 3:50 am

Today I messaged a friend of mine saying no one knows nothing for real, no one can say for real that there is some divine 'set of rules' for life out there somewhere. I said, no one is right in this world, unless there's a superior being of some sorts out there to tell us one day what is actual truth to life, whenever that day may be. Again, I say ... I told her, no one is right in this world. We live on our own experiences and our believes get nurtured on the basis of how we perceive the world around us.

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Post by DeletedUser#1 Thu Jan 08, 2015 5:54 am

AIDS >>> Religion

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Post by Nishankly Thu Jan 08, 2015 6:06 am

They both kill innocent people so yeah they are pretty much as bad as each other.
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Post by rwo power Thu Jan 08, 2015 6:10 am

Well, on the other hand, religion provides shackles that people put willingly onto themselves, so it is probably worse.
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Post by Peccadillo Thu Jan 08, 2015 7:12 am

Religion bashing needs to fall out of fashion imo.. getting old
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Post by Robespierre Thu Jan 08, 2015 7:17 am

El Gunner wrote:

I've always been of the belief that religion was implemented in earlier times as a system to control people. These people might have only had good intentions, and might have never forseen the trouble and threats that religion could impose on this world. I know that's a large call - saying a group of people came together to create something to make people feel 'secure' by making them feel that there is something as devine reward, by making them act reasonable and righteous as long as they are on this earth so that the world doesn't spiral out of control through chaos, animosity and egocentricity.

.


If the only thing keeping a person decent is the expectation of divine reward then, brother, that person is a piece of shit.
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Post by Peccadillo Thu Jan 08, 2015 7:19 am

Robespierre wrote:
El Gunner wrote:

I've always been of the belief that religion was implemented in earlier times as a system to control people. These people might have only had good intentions, and might have never forseen the trouble and threats that religion could impose on this world. I know that's a large call - saying a group of people came together to create something to make people feel 'secure' by making them feel that there is something as devine reward, by making them act reasonable and righteous as long as they are on this earth so that the world doesn't spiral out of control through chaos, animosity and egocentricity.

.


If the only thing keeping a person decent is the expectation of divine reward then, brother, that person is a piece of shit.


and what makes you think that people choose a belief to be a "decent person" exactly? Furthermore, how does a belief in god/heaven/hell prevent a person from making moral decisions based on their own conscience/experiences. The golden rule still applies to people of faith and its pretty bold of you to presume any good deed from a religious person is only done so for their own rewards.

Hitchens used to repeat this like a broken record and I presume that's where you've got the idea from.


Last edited by Peccadillo on Thu Jan 08, 2015 7:23 am; edited 1 time in total
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Post by DuringTheWar Thu Jan 08, 2015 7:20 am

Some months ago

Natalie Portman wrote:Hope the mods don't ban this...this is not a troll attempt.


Today

Natalie Portman wrote:AIDS >>> Religion


LMFAO what you been reading in the last few months?
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Post by Robespierre Thu Jan 08, 2015 7:22 am

Peccadillo wrote:
Robespierre wrote:
El Gunner wrote:

I've always been of the belief that religion was implemented in earlier times as a system to control people. These people might have only had good intentions, and might have never forseen the trouble and threats that religion could impose on this world. I know that's a large call - saying a group of people came together to create something to make people feel 'secure' by making them feel that there is something as devine reward, by making them act reasonable and righteous as long as they are on this earth so that the world doesn't spiral out of control through chaos, animosity and egocentricity.

.


If the only thing keeping a person decent is the expectation of divine reward then, brother, that person is a piece of shit.


and what makes you think that people choose a belief to be a "decent person" exactly?


indeed it was quoted by here ... And I agree on ALL :coffee:


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Post by Peccadillo Thu Jan 08, 2015 7:24 am

yes I form my world views on fictional characters too
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Post by DeletedUser#1 Thu Jan 08, 2015 8:27 am

DuringTheWar wrote:Some months ago

Natalie Portman wrote:Hope the mods don't ban this...this is not a troll attempt.
books about athiesism and Marxism . Lenin Proud

Today

Natalie Portman wrote:AIDS >>> Religion


LMFAO what you been reading in the last few months?

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Post by DuringTheWar Thu Jan 08, 2015 9:17 am

Lenin was a propagandist, a totalitarian, who did not just have religious tortured and murdered but also intellectuals, i.e. "think my way or I kill you, but not before you've been tortured so bad no else will be brave enough to have thinking", atheistic communists Laughing the flipside to the religious far right
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Post by Bellabong Thu Jan 08, 2015 10:09 am

The point of religion is to comfort and relieve people of the fear and anxiety of death. It's also a way to keep peoples mind at ease about not being able to understand how the world actually works. The world being explained through some supernatural magical being with good intentions that can't really be explained by anyone is a much more comforting thought than having to face up to the fact that you lack the ability to understand how the world works but others do. Or that you're pretty insignificant and your existence doesn't really matter to the universe as a whole.

Religion may be the cause of a lot of problems over the past thousands of years (which would have happened with or without Religion*) but it has also relieved the anxieties and insecurities of countless people.

*Trying to attribute religion as the cause of a lot of problems is exactly the same as blaming lack of rational thought which would have existed anyways as that's human nature. We are born faithiest for survival. If we don't blindly believe what our parents etc. tell us then we end up doing really stupid things because we questionned what they said and wanted to see proof otherwise

One of my (pretty arrogant I know) beliefs is that people parroting on against Religion are just repeating what they heard 95% of the time without actually understanding or realizing the moral and ethical problems in religious texts or understanding the science they so often refer to to debunk religion. In short, most of anti-religious zealots are just as bad as religious zealots and the worst part is they don't even realize why.
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Post by mr-r34 Thu Jan 08, 2015 10:31 am

I don't think your last paragraph is too arrogant TBH i can totally see were your coming from, honestly a lot of arguments(i won't call them debates) that I've seen between people are usually done in such a manner.

Does any think that religion has slowed down our ability to understand how the universe works?
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Post by rwo power Thu Jan 08, 2015 10:33 am

Well, please excuse me when I'm not particularly fond of any religion as I was told by a former BF of mine (die-hard Catholic, by the way), that he probably would have burnt me on the stake if he had met me in the middle ages, just because I told him that "no thank you, I won't accompany you to the mass in the Church because I don't really fancy the big sky fairy"...
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Post by DuringTheWar Thu Jan 08, 2015 10:43 am

I think religion also has similar appeals to people as socialism does. Things like, it being more difficult for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than a rich man to go to heaven. An alternative for people disenchanted or burnt by materialism.
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Post by rwo power Thu Jan 08, 2015 10:50 am

And still it was the church that collected copious amounts of secular goods, gold and money....
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Post by DuringTheWar Thu Jan 08, 2015 11:05 am

So the comparison with socialism is even more accurate? Certain people collecting others money and deciding what to spend it on Very Happy
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Post by El Gunner Thu Jan 08, 2015 12:58 pm

Peccadillo wrote:yes I form my world views on fictional characters too

And these fictional characters get the words (ideas) on script from real life people, whom, mind you, base these words (ideas) on other real life words (ideas) they heard or got teached from somewhere. It's like a chain.
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Post by RealGunner Thu Jan 08, 2015 2:42 pm

Is the argument of religion killing people any different to guns killing people? Both are fallacious since they both don't itself kill people but require people using them as a tool to kill. There is no evidence to suggest that people would stop killing each other if there were no religions. Same with Guns. It's quite possible that the killings will reduce, but humans are twats and they will find another reason to kill each other anyways.

There are about 18 major religions in the world with numerous small ones as well. It's a bit ignorant to say that all of them are the reason people kill each other without providing any evidence. Because if 4 people interpret their religions text in a way which asks them to kill others, there will be 14 others who would use the same religion to find peace within themselves and help them spiritually.

I am not in any way supporting any religiously induced hate/crime anywhere but I am just presenting an argument for those who would never dare harm anyone, uses religion as a tool to get around in life easily.
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Post by El Gunner Thu Jan 08, 2015 2:47 pm

mr-r34 wrote:Does any think that religion has slowed down our ability to understand how the universe works?
Yes

Bénin wrote:I'm not against traditions or religious ceremonies as it gather people together BUT I'm against religious people. No one is flawless but some people want to believe so or act like they are ( pope, rabbi, imam ). Religious people went to Africa and help the colonization by doing horrible things. how could I embrace a religion that was imposed to us like that ?
So you don't like religious people?
Any of your family members, aren't they religious? If they are, you don't like this as well?

I think you explained it poorly.
It's the principles, rules, etc of religion that make people religious. And then when you say you're against the people which follow the system rather than the system itself than that's rather contradictory.

I'm the other way around, I'm against religion (though I don't fly protest flags around and start arguments constantly against it) - to what I know and how I perceive it, it is against my liking and my way of making sense of the world, but I couldn't say I'm against religious people, then I'd just be like any other religious person who is against non-theists and says stupid things like Steve Harvey or pastors that preach stupid, single minded stuff like "the atheist does not admit to God, therefore he will burn in eternal hell"
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Post by Peccadillo Thu Jan 08, 2015 3:46 pm

El Gunner wrote:
Peccadillo wrote:yes I form my world views on fictional characters too

And these fictional characters get the words (ideas) on script from real life people, whom, mind you, base these words (ideas) on other real life words (ideas) they heard or got teached from somewhere. It's like a chain.


forgive me, but I don't get your point. I am aware the musings of this fictional character is based upon the ideas of a writer/s. who no doubt bases their ideas on his/her own experiences and the thoughts and ideas of others.

I just think the fact this thread has been bumped in the wake of a serious terrorist attack is a major cheap shot, particularly in the form of "aids > religion". I'm sure it was to troll but still pretty low.
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Post by VivaStPauli Thu Jan 08, 2015 7:07 pm

DuringTheWar wrote:So the comparison with socialism is even more accurate? Certain people collecting others money and deciding what to spend it on Very Happy


With what is colloquially called Socialism, yes. The "communist" regimes from the 50s to the 90s. Their unreflective, ideological approach to all issues is very similar to being a religion. In that evidence is not considered, and a central idea is placed above all reason, and all evidence to the contrary.
Same thing happened in fascism, too. I know they're both often used of examples of atheism gone wrong, but frankly, I think to a proper skeptic, they're basically the same shit from a different asshole.
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Post by El Gunner Fri Jan 09, 2015 1:29 am

Peccadillo wrote:
El Gunner wrote:
Peccadillo wrote:yes I form my world views on fictional characters too

And these fictional characters get the words (ideas) on script from real life people, whom, mind you, base these words (ideas) on other real life words (ideas) they heard or got teached from somewhere. It's like a chain.


forgive me, but I don't get your point. I am aware the musings of this fictional character is based upon the ideas of a writer/s. who no doubt bases their ideas on his/her own experiences and the thoughts and ideas of others.

I just think the fact this thread has been bumped in the wake of a serious terrorist attack is a major cheap shot, particularly in the form of "aids > religion". I'm sure it was to troll but still pretty low.

I was just simply saying that it isn't stupid to quote/or form your own views from stuff that are said or portrayed in movies and from fictional characters.
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Post by Jonathan28 Fri Jan 09, 2015 1:57 am

FFS, I thought we were done with this religious arguments bullshit and everyone had finally grown the hell up and started focusing on more important things in life? This shit never ends well for anyone, you people should know this by now.
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Post by Peccadillo Fri Jan 09, 2015 3:50 am

VivaStPauli wrote:
DuringTheWar wrote:So the comparison with socialism is even more accurate? Certain people collecting others money and deciding what to spend it on Very Happy


With what is colloquially called Socialism, yes. The "communist" regimes from the 50s to the 90s. Their unreflective, ideological approach to all issues is very similar to being a religion. In that evidence is not considered, and a central idea is placed above all reason, and all evidence to the contrary.
Same thing happened in fascism, too. I know they're both often used of examples of atheism gone wrong, but frankly, I think to a proper skeptic, they're basically the same shit from a different asshole.


sorry but surely your definition of religion has broadened too far in the context of this discussion.

In this context, it is a prerequisite for "religion" to include a belief in a "supernatural" higher entity.. or a god.

I understand that you can "follow your football club religiously" - but lets be frank in saying we are not talking about that kind of 'religion' here. Or are we to include secular regimes and the casualties they inflicted, despite being antithetical to religion in the traditional use of the word, in the millions that have "died at the hand of religion".

Jonathan read thread title before posting.
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