Tactics and formation debates

How would you line up the players?

No Mata?

Mata has been poor lately. Even against Burnley, he was abysmal.

or if theres a formation change, something like this

Rooney and Mata can battle it out.

When he wants to play Di Maria in midfield, put Welbeck out wide.

-----------DDG----------
Rafael---Jones--Rojo---Shaw
------------Blind------------
------Hererra---Di Maria-----
Welbeck---Rooney---Januzaj---

Settled back four.

Blind at DM. enforcer role, breaking up opposition play and feeding it to either Hererra or Di Maria to carry the ball forward.

Have Januzaj and Welbeck as wing forwards to stretch the play, make runs behind the defence and offer an extra outlet to our attacks and the very much needed pace we lack in the final 3rd.

Rooney as rooted in that no.9 role where he excells.

Having Di Maria, Januzaj and Welbeck in the team= Pace and energy!

last one

manutd.com wrote:Your opinion: New-look United XI

After a dramatic transfer deadline day resulted in the arrival of Radamel Falcao and Daley Blind, adding to the captures of Angel Di Maria, Marcos Rojo, Ander Herrera and Luke Shaw, we asked fans on Twitter to discuss how United's new-look line-up might take shape – and it turned into a trending topic.
Some supporters dubbed the new additions 'Gaalacticos', and indeed Louis van Gaal has plenty of options when picking his starting XI. But while we wait for United's next game, against QPR on 14 September, to find out what the Dutchman will do, fans have had their say via the #UnitedToday hashtag...

(4-1-3-2) De Gea; Rafael, Jones, Rojo, Shaw; Blind; Herrera, Mata, Di Maria; Rooney, Falcao
via @garyhei98771

(4-3-1-2) De Gea; Rafael, Jones, Rojo, Shaw; Blind; Di Maria, Herrera, Mata; van Persie, Falcao
via @Czakza

(4-3-3) De Gea; Valencia, Jones, Rojo, Shaw; Mata, Herrera, Di Maria; Rooney, Falcao, van Persie
via @estebanhdp

(3-4-2-1) De Gea; Jones, Rojo, Blind; Valencia, Fletcher, Di Maria, Januzaj; Rooney, Mata; Falcao
via @RheeceC

(3-1-4-2) De Gea; Rojo, Blind, Shaw; Herrera; Januzaj, Rooney, Mata, Di Maria; van Persie, Falcao
via @adeebfiqri

(4-3-2-1) De Gea; Smalling, Evans, Rojo, Shaw; Januzaj, Herrera, Di Maria; Rooney, Mata; Falcao
via @him_anshu

(4-2-3-1) De Gea; Rafael, Jones, Rojo, Shaw; Herrera, Blind; Januzaj, Rooney, Di Maria; Falcao
via @aj_ranger

(1-2-7) De Gea; Jones; Herrera, Blind; Mata, Di Maria, Januzaj, Rooney, Falcao, van Persie, Wilson
via @UnitedHeaven_

Has Lvg said anything re formation after the signing of Falcao??

I think the formation that would best utilise your players is 4-2-3-1:


You have got a pure DM and so can afford to play with a CM rather than B2B and then you have the speed and trickery of ADM and Januzaj on either side switching with eachother mid game to provide unpredictability and then the drive on goal and creativity of Roone and Mata behind the striker and then of course Falcao leading the line with RVP being back up

should definitely start winning games with that line up

The strongest two possible line-ups in my opinion:

4-2-3-1:



3-4-1-2:



Some fantasy line-ups that I'd like to see:

3-4-2-1 (diamond):

Much faster attack, and we'll be better on the counter

Rooney is there because he's captain, but it can only save him for so long if he keeps on underperforming, with players like RvP and Mata on the bench he needs to step up his game. Also, since the RvP-Rooney partnership is not that great I hope Falcao-Rooney will be better.

halamadrid2 wrote:Has Lvg said anything re formation after the signing of Falcao??

I think the formation that would best utilise your players is 4-2-3-1:

DDG
Raf/Val-Jones/Evans-Rojo/Evans-Shaw/Blackett
Blind/Fletcher-Hererra/Carrick
Januzaj/ADM-Mata/Rooney-ADM/Januzaj
Falcao/RVP

You have got a pure DM and so can afford to play with a CM rather than B2B and then you have the speed and trickery of ADM and Januzaj on either side switching with eachother mid game to provide unpredictability and then the drive on goal and creativity of Roone and Mata behind the striker and then of course Falcao leading the line with RVP being back up

should definitely start winning games with that line up

LvG said he sees Di Maria as his Robben and that he can change the formation with him because he can play as a winger

hows this for a formation ?


Features
pros I guess

i. Its a  3-4-3 diamond in which we can use rooney (thereby accommodating an undroppable rooney)  or even carrick in that case as a B2B until we buy someone like a Strootman next window.
ii. 3 at the back and more importantly a  3 we can trust the most right now. Blind can drop back as the LCB when Shaw attacks and vice versa.
Under normal circumstance though both should stay back and give that solidity to defense.
iii. jones as the back up to rafeal meaning we will not have to worry about finding a replacement to a seriously injury prone rafael. jones can also be the first choice back up to both rojo and Blind.
iv. attackwise i think this formation is a poetry    Di maria and Adnan can stretch it wide when required and Mata can work his magic as a proper no.10 and falcao/rvp as the finishers. Even herrera can get involved if required provided rafael steps back as something like a limited full back.

cons
i. well the presence of rooney in the midfield. If he fuk up and wander high up the pitch leaving us short of cover when under counter we will be under problemo. Eventhough we have a supremely hardworking di maria to cover for him on the left side. it still could be a problem. So may be its best to opt for something like this when we get a specialist box to box perhaps or at least when carrick is back meaning then rooney will fight with mata for the 10.
EDIT. ii. Now when i think of it theres another glaring flaw to this which i missed earlier. that is full backs playing as center backs. I forgot shaw and rafael is not that versatile enough to fill those roles. my bad. jones can play as the RCB meaning rafael as the back up. But Shaw hmm its not possible I guess.

Any other problem for this formation folks?. I know its a little attack heavy but then again its always better to play with our strengths and use that.

De Gea
Rafael-Jones-Rojo-Shaw
Herrera-Blind
Januzaj-Rooney-ADM
Falcao

I believe this is the most plausible formation. Few questions:

#1. Do you see Falcao as an automatic choice or as the choice due to RvP injury! Falcao is only back from a long injury while RvP is EPL proven.

#2. Since you can't drop WR and Mata prefers to be in the middle, what would you think of a swap between them and Falcao & WR (as AM) respectively!

#3. Do you think LvH will readily abandon 352 after he has used it so well in the WC and now having some players of his choice?

Not sure about Falcao and where he stands right now in the queue. And like you mentioned especially considering he was injured not so long back. May be rvp will start with the former coming as a sub in the next match that is. But then again. I genuinely dont know . its upto LVG to decide.

In the next few matches at least both will/should start mata and wr that is. But since both of them are declining (well in case of mata its more to do with loss of form though) lately it could well come down as a choice between the two for that 1 position and yea considering now falcao has come rooney could most likely drop back to that no.10 role.

Well he said he would move on and adopt a 4-3-3. But whether he will do it now or afterwards after further strengthening of the midfield that is, remains to be seen.

Falcao is our highest paid player, you don't bring him to be on the bench, imo. He's also had a full pre-season, and has has already played for Monaco in the league, unlike RvP who hasn't played a full 90 mins yet. Also, like I said before Rooney-RvP is awful, they pass to each other like 3/4 passes a game including kick-off. If Rooney-Falcao form a good partnership then it's really a no brainier. Falcao is hitting his peak at 28, and RvP being 31 there's questions of can he replicate 12/13 form.

Is he fit? thats why I said I dont know anything about it as I dont watch matches outside Prem and is often unaware of what is happening outside England. La Liga I am aware of quite a bit now since coming here. Ligue1 and all I am totally ignorant.

If he is match fit then fine. we should start him.

Wide Diamond

Rafael providing width down the right

Lumiere_Blanche wrote:Is he fit? thats why I said I dont know anything about it as I dont watch matches outside Prem and is often unaware of what is happening outside England. La Liga I am aware of quite a bit now since coming here. Ligue1 and all I am totally ignorant.

If he is match fit then fine. we should start him.

Yep, looks good, 2 goals in 3 games so far. Of course it might not be one or the other (RvP or Falcao) that's just what I'd like to see. LvG, might go for the formation B-mac used.

B-Mac wrote:

De Gea
Rafael-Jones-Rojo-Shaw
Blind
Herrera---Di Maria
Rooney
Van Persie-Falcao

Wide Diamond

Rafael providing width down the right

Nice line-up suggestion. I'd like to see this one someday.

Herrera has said he can also play as a right winger, he played there at Real Zargoza. So, that means both him and Angel Di Maria can pick their moments to drift out wide to provide width, that would actually make the diamond really nice.

Unfortunately, we won't see a line-up with 4 defenders till the 3-5-2/3-4-1-2 formation won't prove wrong.

Even if the 3-5-2 formation will succeed, I would like to see a 4-4-2 with a wide diamond in the midfield.

But a dream of mine would be to see Man United able to switch from 3-5-2 to 4-4-2 or vice versa during a match if needed. This would show how clever and how versatile our players are. But it is a very rare thing nowadays.

A problem for Man United ever since Sir Alex left was the formation.

We played on paper with a 4-2-3-1 in the pre-season but then LvG declared that he will stick to the 4-3-3 we were used to in the 2nd half of the past season. But then, he somehow contradicts himself with the way he sees the role of one midfielder and the role of the striker (which is different in comparison with the 4-3-3 of the last season). Interesting fact is that he mentioned that the line-up used in the pre-season is some kind of a 4-3-3, because he said that "the midfielder" played in front of Rooney sometimes and that is Depay. Also he said that the midfielder in front of Rooney could be Schneiderlin, Schweinsteiger or Carrick etc in the future. So we know that in a 4-2-3-1 the three players behind the striker are more than midfielders, they are attacking players , at least if we speak about the way this formation was displayed on TV and over the internet.

I inferred that Depay is considered by van Gaal one of three midfielders in the 4-3-3 with more offensive tasks than it's usual for that position and not one of the 3 attacking players from the 4-2-3-1. Very strange interpretation, but we are used to the unorthodox ideas of van Gaal, who didn't surprise me when he said "more or less a 4-3-3", which clearly means that he has more than a plan A in his mind, but this kind of stuff can be a little bit hard for the players to assimilate, especially this early in the project, when the team chemistry isn't at the right level.

He failed with the 3-5-2 and I hope he realised after one season that it's not ok to try to implement rebel ideas at Manchester United, especially in this modern times in EPL where things happen so fast and you don't have time to make experiments.

LvG wrote:"That the midfielder is [sometimes] in front of the striker is not bad because I think you do need variation in your attack," said van Gaal, in a press conference following the final tour match against PSG.

"I like that and I ask for that, especially from Memphis. It can also be Carrick or Schweinsteiger or Schneiderlin once in a while but mostly Memphis. It depends on our opponents."

LvG wrote:When asked which formation he will deploy in the Barclays Premier League, van Gaal replied: "More or less 4-3-3. We played that already last season, in the second half of the season, and I have said that is the system I want to use. We played in our shape [on tour] and played how we have to play. That's also where I have been very satisfied.”

We have Ibra, Rashford, Rooney, Martial, Mkhitaryan, Mata, Depay. All of them quality players (considering that Rooney will finally play his position for more than 2 games in a row under Mourinho, we have a hope).

Mourinho seems to trust Rashford, Martial is obviously immense, Ibra (no words), Depay has huge potential, Mata (I think Mourinho knows how important he is for Man United), Mkhitaryan is in great great form (best player in BL last season according to the other players), Wilson, Valencia, Januzaj, Young, Lingard, Pereira etc.

With time it will be clear, but thought it would be nice to discuss it.

Either Depay or Young, Fellaini, Rojo and Valencia. Flush them out. Januzaj and Pereira- loan them out.

Glory wrote:

Ibra (Rashford)
Martial(Young)-Roonay(Mata)-Mkhi(Lingard)
Schneiderlin(Carrick)-New CM(Herrera)
Shaw(Blind)-Smalling(Jones)-Bailly(Tuanzebe)-Darmian(Fosu)
David(romero)

Either Depay or Young, Fellaini, Rojo and Valencia. Flush them out. Januzaj and Pereira- loan them out.

I kinda like it how you exposed the possible formation and lineup. I would love to see Martial, Ibra, Rooney and Mata in the first lineup. Imagine if they are all in form. I'd take Mata in form over Mkhitaryan.

I hope the old Rooney will be back under Mourinho.