The Annual Arsene Wenger Poll

Again, we've signed a £42million player and won a trophy in the space of 9 months. That's what's changed. And the new deals coming in is only further evidence that the pressure is all on Wenger to spend and he will.

Q. So If things are not different & we have another poor summer will you guys finally concede that Wenger's time is up?

Because I can already see the same tired excuses Wengerites will trot out;

Blaming the board, even though Wenger has absolute power on the football side of things, or even worse, buying into the 'we tried but we can't compete with *insert big club*' crap, even though you were just bragging about our new amazing commercial deals that would change our fate & the whole point of moving to emirates was to ''be able to compete with Europes elite''   

Q. If the summer isn't poor, would a WOB concede that Wenger isn't complete shit?

A. Probably not.

A lot of people who are still on Wenger's side concede that he, and the club, have made mistakes or fallen short. But the people who are most anti-Wenger seem unwilling or unable to assess new evidence. Thus, when reports first broke out that Özil might be happening ... the WOB were the ones who were loudest about how it definitely wouldn't happen, there was no way Arsene could pull it off or spend that much, etc. Then it happened. And WOBs got very quiet for a couple months.

When they came back out they'd say, "Özil was a lucky buy, it was definitely 100% factually I-can-tell-the-future only a singular exception to the rule. Wenger won't win a trophy this year."

Then Arsenal won the FA Cup.

WOBs respond: "Yeah but nothing has changed. Can't you guys see that because things were unsatisfactory for several years, they will always be unsatisfactory? And any evidence you cite to the contrary will only be an exception that doesn't matter?"

I don't think he's complete shit & neither do most WOB, it's disingenuous to pretend that's the case. We do think he's past it as an elite manager and that we will never be an elite team again under him.

So let me re-word you question for you.

Q. If we have a good summer will WOB concede Wenger is the man to take us forward and win titles?

A. No. Because his incompetency in the transfer market Is just one of many reasons why we don't believe in him anymore.

Hypothetically speaking, let's say Wenger finally addresses the DM position he's criminally ignored for over half a decade, and signs a World Class CF, and a Sagna replacement + squad players, and all those signings hit the ground running, and basically we have the best summer transfer window we've ever had...none of that would change the fact that Wenger  isn't good enough tactically to challenge europes elite, that Wenger is straight up negligent when it comes to our medical issues, that his teams are mentally weak, that his substitutions are poor, or that he doesn't study the opposition when pretty much all other top managers have an entire team dedicated to it   

So basically you're saying,

"If Wenger screws up in this transfer market, will you all say that he sucks?"

... but what you really think is ...

"Even if Wenger does really well in the transfer market, I've already decided he sucks and will continue to suck no matter what, and want the rest of you to agree with me."

Some people would be angry if we won the PL with Wenger, just because.

MJGunner wrote:Some people would be angry if we won the PL with Wenger, just because.

That is the most retarded thing I have ever seen someone write on this board, its the fact that year after year we do not compete for the league that fans are angry with Wenger, which would dissipate if we won the league, utterly ridiculous!

Yes, the trophy drought sucked, and yes, finishing 3rd/4th every season during that entire time was also disappointing. Then again, tell me a manager who would have done better than Wenger with the same board & resources during this time?

I'll wait.

No really, I'll wait.

The reason Wenger makes so much money, and the reason why other big clubs would love to pay him even more money is because he's simply one of the best in the world at squeezing a lot out of the resources at his disposal. During the stadium rebuilding years, his consistency is simply breathtaking. This doesn't mean it's the same as trophies ... but it does mean that it's a lot better than failure. (And an inability to grasp gray areas or middle grounds indicates only a stunted intellect...) I think a couple years ago 7amkickoff did a whole study where he showed that Wenger's presence alone indicated a huge and reliable overachievement in terms of what he spent vs where he finished in the tables. As a result Arsenal are financially stable and have a potentially great and lucrative future ahead of them, whoever's at the helm. That's why the Arsenal board want to keep him, and why clubs like Monaco, PSG, Madrid, etc., would always be interested in securing the services of this so-called "specialist in failure."

This does not mean everything Wenger has done has been good.

Obviously he has made mistakes, been timid in certain instances where boldness (or mildly extravagant expenditures) would have made things easier. I concede fully that the last few transfer windows have been mostly underwhelming, for all sorts of reasons, but especially because we've tended to begin seasons with big gaping question marks in certain squad positions. I really want us to get solid reinforcements at DM & CF this summer, and I do admit that I'm not 100% confident that AW will make the most reassuring signings. I'm pro-Wenger and I think he is a great manager, but this doesn't mean I am blind to his faults and failings, which he certainly has.

That said, WOBs also like to ignore certain factual evidence themselves, e.g., always trying to explain away big or shrewd transfers (like Cazorla or Özil) as if they are only lucky exceptions and could not possibly be anything else (which indicates illogical thinking). Or another example, some people say Wenger "always" does business late ... ignoring stuff like his early business in 2012 when he got Podolski and Giroud early, and finished up Cazorla pretty early too. That business was easy to overlook because it was offset by RvP's departure. But if you're going to criticize AW for "always" doing business late, you have to acknowledge when he does things early. There are other examples in recent years ... Gervinho might have proved a bit of flop overall - true - but anyone with a memory will recall that Gervinho's acquisition from Lille was actually a very exciting signing at the time. And if memory serves that was taken care of pretty early in the spring/summer of 2011. People mocked Wenger for spending so much money on the Ox in that same transfer window, but who isn't glad now that we have a prospect like him on the cusp of really breaking out?

I just don't think that Arsenal would necessarily be in a better situation without Wenger after the stadium move and in the context of oligarch/oil money. We've seen, with Man Utd and Liverpool, how incredibly easy it is for elite teams to stumble badly for a season or more. Wenger has fallen short in many ways himself, yes, but at the same time, his critics - if they are honest - must admit that he's never actually failed in the way that 99.9% of managers in his position would have done.

Chumlum wrote:Yes, the trophy drought sucked, and yes, finishing 3rd/4th every season during that entire time was also disappointing. Then again, tell me a manager who would have done better than Wenger with the same board & resources during this time?

I'll wait.

No really, I'll wait.

The reason Wenger makes so much money, and the reason why other big clubs would love to pay him even more money is because he's simply one of the best in the world at squeezing a lot out of the resources at his disposal. During the stadium rebuilding years, his consistency is simply breathtaking. This doesn't mean it's the same as trophies ... but it does mean that it's a lot better than failure. (And an inability to grasp gray areas or middle grounds indicates only a stunted intellect...) I think a couple years ago 7amkickoff did a whole study where he showed that Wenger's presence alone indicated a huge and reliable overachievement in terms of what he spent vs where he finished in the tables. As a result Arsenal are financially stable and have a potentially great and lucrative future ahead of them, whoever's at the helm. That's why the Arsenal board want to keep him, and why clubs like Monaco, PSG, Madrid, etc., would always be interested in securing the services of this so-called "specialist in failure."

This does not mean everything Wenger has done has been good.

Obviously he has made mistakes, been timid in certain instances where boldness (or mildly extravagant expenditures) would have made things easier. I concede fully that the last few transfer windows have been mostly underwhelming, for all sorts of reasons, but especially because we've tended to begin seasons with big gaping question marks in certain squad positions. I really want us to get solid reinforcements at DM & CF this summer, and I do admit that I'm not 100% confident that AW will make the most reassuring signings. I'm pro-Wenger and I think he is a great manager, but this doesn't mean I am blind to his faults and failings, which he certainly has.

That said, WOBs also like to ignore certain factual evidence themselves, e.g., always trying to explain away big or shrewd transfers (like Cazorla or Özil) as if they are only lucky exceptions and could not possibly be anything else (which indicates illogical thinking). Or another example, some people say Wenger "always" does business late ... ignoring stuff like his early business in 2012 when he got Podolski and Giroud early, and finished up Cazorla pretty early too. That business was easy to overlook because it was offset by RvP's departure. But if you're going to criticize AW for "always" doing business late, you have to acknowledge when he does things early. There are other examples in recent years ... Gervinho might have proved a bit of flop overall - true - but anyone with a memory will recall that Gervinho's acquisition from Lille was actually a very exciting signing at the time. And if memory serves that was taken care of pretty early in the spring/summer of 2011. People mocked Wenger for spending so much money on the Ox in that same transfer window, but who isn't glad now that we have a prospect like him on the cusp of really breaking out?

I just don't think that Arsenal would necessarily be in a better situation without Wenger after the stadium move and in the context of oligarch/oil money. We've seen, with Man Utd and Liverpool, how incredibly easy it is for elite teams to stumble badly for a season or more. Wenger has fallen short in many ways himself, yes, but at the same time, his critics - if they are honest - must admit that he's never actually failed in the way that 99.9% of managers in his position would have done.

It is hard to say 99.9% of other managers would have done better or worse in Wenger's position, but most boards for top clubs put pressure on a manager to win titles, or come close. Also while other clubs want him, it is obvious that he has an inability to attract the top-top players 99.99% of the time, with Ozil being the ONLY exception in the past 9 years.

Artilleristen wrote:

MJGunner wrote:Some people would be angry if we won the PL with Wenger, just because.

That is the most retarded thing I have ever seen someone write on this board, its the fact that year after year we do not compete for the league that fans are angry with Wenger, which would dissipate if we won the league, utterly ridiculous!

Clearly, going by some of the WOB messages, Wenger can do nothing to prove he's the right man for Arsenal, including winning trophies. If you've closed yourself off to him completely and aren't even willing to admit you'd back him if he came good then you don't want what's best for Arsenal if that included him.

Also, This year we did challenge for the title for about two thirds of the season. We were only 7 points off top. Thats the highest number of points we have had for years.

I agree we need to see improvement in playing top teams and I agree that Wenger has, at times, made mistakes in those big games. I would also say though that our problem when facing the big clubs can also be attributed to a mental block in the squad.

But really, save this talk for when we are genuinely in a bad place. Not after notching up a season where we won the FA cup and notched up 79 points, which at face value is a title challenging number.

With the exception of Sagna there is no evidence to suggest that we are going to be losing any more of our stars, luckily he is a full-back so regardless of how good he is, he's more expendible than your rambos and kos's. There are far more reports linking top players in than our top players out.

Also I totally disagree that Wenger cannot attract top players - what rubbish - he is a well respected manager, any reservations players may have about him are limited to the fact he wont be paying them 300k a week. We have a solid foundation to continue to tap into the English, French, Spanish and German talent pools. I would actually love to hear who you think we can get in to replace Wenger, that can attract W.C players to the club - I am seriously all ears.

There is no need to be pessimistic - things are looking up for once.

MJGunner wrote:

Artilleristen wrote:

MJGunner wrote:Some people would be angry if we won the PL with Wenger, just because.

That is the most retarded thing I have ever seen someone write on this board, its the fact that year after year we do not compete for the league that fans are angry with Wenger, which would dissipate if we won the league, utterly ridiculous!

Clearly, going by some of the WOB messages, Wenger can do nothing to prove he's the right man for Arsenal, including winning trophies. If you've closed yourself off to him completely and aren't even willing to admit you'd back him if he came good then you don't want what's best for Arsenal if that included him.

Clearly, going by some of the WKB messages, Wenger can do nothing to prove he's the wrong man for Arsenal. He will always get that one more transfer window.

so...

speak to you in 10 hours.

Too early, wait til we lose against City lads

Wenger going to Rome on deadline day seems like a dictator running away as the masses is about to break down his door.
If Arsenal fails to get a CB and AW sticks with this bullshit 4-1-4-1 then its likely that he has lost his head and we should escort him to the nearest asylum.