- Il Polpo Paul | Paul Pogba

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Post by GIGItheBest Fri Jan 23, 2015 9:32 pm

salmano9 wrote:Lol, you guys know how competitive the attack of the Argentine squad is? So, it is really impressive to see preyeyra i there...


But I think the games he played were only friendlies. I also think that he wouldn't be playing instead of Di Maria and will instead be playing alongside him and probably taking Perezs or Biglia's position at CM. I do agree he's a good player, but he needs to work on some things still. I also kind of agree with the fact that we don't know what will happen with the Marotta situation. If you were to give him 100 million who knows how he'll spend it since it doesn't seem as though he can spend a lot of money every year. He seems to be good at agreeing a deal with the players, so maybe with a good amount of money he can finalise a deal with the club too. But then again that's only IF we sell Pogba and I would rather have him stay.

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Post by sportsczy Fri Jan 23, 2015 9:41 pm

The bottom line is that Juventus have to balance the books.  You can't compete like a top 5 team in Europe when your revenue is 10th (according to Deloitte)...  You have Liverpool and Arsenal just ahead of you and Dortmund and Milan just behind you.

At the end of the day, how much money you have dictates the kind of team you're going to be.  For Juventus, it's just about right.

It's impossible for teams to keep true WC players unless you're right around the 400 mil revenue mark or better based on transfer fees and wages...  Juve is at 280 mil.  

HOWEVER, you can suddenly improve your roster if you make a very expensive sale and you suddenly have unbudgeted cash to spend. I think that's why Juve are trying to tell the fans that, if a monster offer comes for Pogba, it would be difficult (dumb is a better word for it) not to sell. Juve could actually buy a top striker AND a top midfielder with the money if not more...
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Post by Katy Perry Sat Jan 24, 2015 1:16 am

Yea, sportsczy is right. Juve was making 280 M 10 years ago and it was the same amount Real/Barca/Bayern was making, the difference is they doubled that while Juve's budget remained the same (no need to dwell why).

So Juve has indeed less parameters to make such moves, both on transfer fees AND wages and Agnelli is more cautios to make similar move because when he become president he had to get rid for peanuts of two huge 50M signings in Diego and Felipe Melo making a huge loss out of them.
I'd say these are the two reasons why Marotta hasn't splashed huge money yet. When he was given a budget beyond the parameters at Sampdoria he was able to pay Cassano's salary (best player of the last 20 years at Sampdoria), was able to pay 10M for Pazzini who came in 09 january and saved Samp from relegation in the first season and brought them in the CL and Coppa Italia final the second. Like Sportsczy said selling Pogba is the only way for Marotta to spend beyond the parameters so it's only in that eventuality that we will see how Marotta would do as he has never done it yet at Juve altho he did a fantastic job with Samp with it.

So when Marotta buys this unknown young players he does it because 1)That's how he works, all his staff and connections works that way. 2)He doesn't have huge money.
Like I said, sometimes it pays off, at Samp he brought an unknown Icardi (one of the most promising strikers in Europe), Poli (he was bossing Juve, Milan, Roma, Inter midfields at Samp when he was a teenager and is one of the most promising midfielders in the country), Soriano, Obiang (two of the best midfielders in Serie A that helped Samp to overachieve to the third spot) and for them, for every Rugani, Berardi, Zaza (say what you want but they're already in the NT), Pogba, Coman there's others that are rooting in Serie B. For every purchase from smaller clubs (the only way to get players with restrained wages)Lichtesteiner, Asamoah, Vidal, Barza, Berardi, Rugani, Pereyra, (are we still friends if I trust Argentina's coach's judgement more than yours, Elm?) there's Isla, Pepe, Martinez, Giovinco. That's how football works, sometimes things turn out great and sometimes they don't. Fact is Marotta brought you from being midtable to being midtable to close to the fourth consecutive title and back in the best teams in Europe despite having half the budget of the other top teams in Europe.

Let's see how if he can improve Juve even further with some of the young players that he bought to make it in Juve (the one I listed) or with the eventual money he gets from the Pogba sale.








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Post by DeviAngel Sat Jan 24, 2015 2:12 am

Katy Perry wrote:Yea, sportsczy is right. Juve was making 280 M 10 years ago and it was the same amount Real/Barca/Bayern was making, the difference is they doubled that while Juve's budget remained the same (no need to dwell why).

So Juve has indeed less parameters to make such moves, both on transfer fees AND wages and Agnelli is more cautios to make similar move because when he become president he had to get rid for peanuts of two huge 50M signings in Diego and Felipe Melo making a huge loss out of them.
I'd say these are the two reasons why Marotta hasn't splashed huge money yet. When he was given a budget beyond the parameters at Sampdoria he was able to pay Cassano's salary (best player of the last 20 years at Sampdoria), was able to pay 10M for Pazzini who came in 09 january and saved Samp from relegation in the first season and brought them in the CL and Coppa Italia final the second. Like Sportsczy said selling Pogba is the only way for Marotta to spend beyond the parameters so it's only in that eventuality that we will see how Marotta would do as he has never done it yet at Juve altho he did a fantastic job with Samp with it.

So when Marotta buys this unknown young players he does it because 1)That's how he works, all his staff and connections works that way. 2)He doesn't have huge money.
Like I said, sometimes it pays off, at Samp he brought an unknown Icardi (one of the most promising strikers in Europe), Poli (he was bossing Juve, Milan, Roma, Inter midfields at Samp when he was a teenager and is one of the most promising midfielders in the country), Soriano, Obiang (two of the best midfielders in Serie A that helped Samp to overachieve to the third spot) and for them, for every Rugani, Berardi, Zaza (say what you want but they're already in the NT), Pogba, Coman there's others that are rooting in Serie B. For every purchase from smaller clubs (the only way to get players with restrained wages)Lichtesteiner, Asamoah, Vidal, Barza, Berardi, Rugani, Pereyra, (are we still friends if I trust Argentina's coach's judgement more than yours, Elm?) there's Isla, Pepe, Martinez, Giovinco. That's how football works, sometimes things turn out great and sometimes they don't. Fact is Marotta brought you from being midtable to being midtable to close to the fourth consecutive title and back in the best teams in Europe despite having half the budget of the other top teams in Europe.

Let's see how if he can improve Juve even further with some of the young players that he bought to make it in Juve (the one I listed) or with the eventual money he gets from the Pogba sale.









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Come on, show 'em what you're worth

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Post by elm_baraja_shaman Sat Jan 24, 2015 2:50 am

the thing is this is not 2001, things have changed...... the media would get scent of a Pogba move before it even happens and all teams are gonna start pricing their scrubs high (not to mention their quality players), this is when Marotta would resort to buying Sassuolo and Udinese talent and get ripped off hard, with that, it'd be a hard backward step with us with some acquisitions hoping the next "Pogboom" happens again which is 1 in every 100 purchases..... given these likely premises, I'd rather keep Pogba given Marotta's track record (don't get me wrong he has his merits) but I simply don't feel safe knowing Marotta has 100m, i smell the next Pepes and cos all over again, i'd only sell Pogba if somehow we are getting Moggi or a DM of his ilk to handle the 100m mulla....
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Post by salmano9 Sat Jan 24, 2015 3:36 am

Katy is either a juventina OR marrota's biatch Very Happy

Good words keep it up.

@gigi
at the end of the day he was chosen and I'm sure he will pay in the coppa
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Post by GIGItheBest Sat Jan 24, 2015 5:21 am

salmano9 wrote:Katy is either a juventina OR marrota's biatch Very Happy

Good words keep it up.

@gigi
at the end of the day he was chosen and I'm sure he will pay in the coppa


Ik but to say he played instead of Di Maria is not good wording. Anyways, I think he's a good player but like a said, he has a lot to work on.
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Post by DeviAngel Sat Jan 24, 2015 6:47 am

GIGItheBest wrote:
salmano9 wrote:Katy is either a juventina OR marrota's biatch Very Happy

Good words keep it up.

@gigi
at the end of the day he was chosen and I'm sure he will pay in the coppa


Ik but to say he played instead of Di Maria is not good wording. Anyways, I think he's a good player but like a said, he has a lot to work on.


he is not playing instead of Di Maria he is his sub and rotating with him, sometimes he even plays alongside him, Di Maria is a class player ofc he would be the first choice, but to be he sub for Di Maria on the age of 23 and to be in the Argentina squad is really impressive.
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Post by GIGItheBest Sat Jan 24, 2015 8:09 am

DeviAngel wrote:
BoBo wrote:
elm_baraja_shaman wrote:100m in Marotta's hands is 100m ways to make Udinese and Sassuolo rich....

oh and another 100m 1m loan with option to buy for 12m on 100m mediocre players, I would rather keep Pogba than hand Marotta that opportunity....


This is so so very very true. Ive been defending him for all the years but every time i knew in the back of my mind that he was the most provincial type of all sportdirectors we could ever have.

At least we all know that 100 mill is wasted in marottas hands cause each and every negotiation he has been doing is reported minute by minute in the press. This means that when time comes every club knows Juve has money and are desperate to sign some quality hence the price goes up alot. Back when Moggi bought Neddy Lillian and Gigi the negotiations where finalised when the news on zidane broke out.

Take a minute and think about the numerous co-ownership he has been doing gaining nothing but a lot of work and at the same time completely failing in filling the depth with some quality youth instead of buying mediocre players.

This has been going on for too long with discussions back and forth when fact is marotta is utter C*R*A*P and started his Juve adventure by bringing in the fabtastic del neri. But then again credits go to our beloved president for being a fake all the way thru.


excuse me how do we know that? when has marotta spend 100milion budget to judge him?  Stop with the moggi era thing, back then Serie A was the best league in the world, Juve had huge profits and the stadiums were always full and 2006 didn't happen. The sad true is that Marotta has been working every summer with 20 million budget that's why we pay transfers in installments. Napoli spend shit load of money after the sale of Cavani and look at them and the quality of their squad.It was so easy for Moggi to buy players with the money, the league strong. It seems that all of you are keen to forget the missed signings that moggi made just because he had money to take another player, back then player loved to play in the world strongest Serie A league. Also you remember the ones (bad signings) that only marotta made. Also you are also keen to mention the bad signings like Martinez, Rinaudo, Krasic but you also forget Pogba, Llorente, Vidal, Pirlo, Licht, Tevez, Barzagli. All of you were wet Smile when we signed Isla/Giovinco and now that he flopped you start to blame Marotta, you judge Pereyra who didn't even finish a season with us for who all of the journalist, critics, sites call him great player with great future even he gets games for Argentina in a position where Di Maria plays ffs.

ohh this forum is ....


@Katy kudos to you


Sorry, must've interpreted this in the wrong way. Anyways, I think he'll be playing alongside him if anything. I think he'll probably be playing CM unless Perez or someone else benches him.
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Post by DeviAngel Sat Jan 24, 2015 9:46 am

GIGItheBest wrote:
DeviAngel wrote:
BoBo wrote:
elm_baraja_shaman wrote:100m in Marotta's hands is 100m ways to make Udinese and Sassuolo rich....

oh and another 100m 1m loan with option to buy for 12m on 100m mediocre players, I would rather keep Pogba than hand Marotta that opportunity....


This is so so very very true. Ive been defending him for all the years but every time i knew in the back of my mind that he was the most provincial type of all sportdirectors we could ever have.

At least we all know that 100 mill is wasted in marottas hands cause each and every negotiation he has been doing is reported minute by minute in the press. This means that when time comes every club knows Juve has money and are desperate to sign some quality hence the price goes up alot. Back when Moggi bought Neddy Lillian and Gigi the negotiations where finalised when the news on zidane broke out.

Take a minute and think about the numerous co-ownership he has been doing gaining nothing but a lot of work and at the same time completely failing in filling the depth with some quality youth instead of buying mediocre players.

This has been going on for too long with discussions back and forth when fact is marotta is utter C*R*A*P and started his Juve adventure by bringing in the fabtastic del neri. But then again credits go to our beloved president for being a fake all the way thru.


excuse me how do we know that? when has marotta spend 100milion budget to judge him?  Stop with the moggi era thing, back then Serie A was the best league in the world, Juve had huge profits and the stadiums were always full and 2006 didn't happen. The sad true is that Marotta has been working every summer with 20 million budget that's why we pay transfers in installments. Napoli spend shit load of money after the sale of Cavani and look at them and the quality of their squad.It was so easy for Moggi to buy players with the money, the league strong. It seems that all of you are keen to forget the missed signings that moggi made just because he had money to take another player, back then player loved to play in the world strongest Serie A league. Also you remember the ones (bad signings) that only marotta made. Also you are also keen to mention the bad signings like Martinez, Rinaudo, Krasic but you also forget Pogba, Llorente, Vidal, Pirlo, Licht, Tevez, Barzagli. All of you were wet Smile when we signed Isla/Giovinco and now that he flopped you start to blame Marotta, you judge Pereyra who didn't even finish a season with us for who all of the journalist, critics, sites call him great player with great future even he gets games for Argentina in a position where Di Maria plays ffs.

ohh this forum is ....


@Katy kudos to you


Sorry, must've interpreted this in the wrong way. Anyways, I think he'll be playing alongside him if anything. I think he'll probably be playing CM unless Perez or someone else benches him.


I think he is the best in the b2b role, but recently he excelled in AM. I'll give him time he has great potential but a lot of works in front of him.
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Post by BoBo Sat Jan 24, 2015 9:52 am

Pereyra is great imo but as buisiness its hardly more than decent and actually very sad that he cant find his own pereryra for half the price when ha has 30 yes 30 scouts around the world. Wonder how much 30 scouts costs every year and yet we only sign 2-3 hopeless "talents" from outside Italy every year.

And why we have a youth academy when nobody per tradition ever comes thru there. Really the structure of this club is so lame and ive just been hoping so much that marotta would suprise me and that he needed some time and all this but its not gonna happen.

Take a look at the good he has done. Pogboom is a once in a lifetime, Vidal was handed to him by Voeller then Pirlo was thrown out of milan and Barzagli really was a fluke then there is Asamoah who is great but also cost 18 mill and Licht at 14 ohh and his real masterpiece was stealing from the club in europe with most integrity and having such a great guy burn his home and soul.
BoBo is not impressed.

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Post by DeviAngel Sat Jan 24, 2015 10:16 am

BoBo wrote:Pereyra is great imo but as buisiness its hardly more than decent and actually very sad that he cant find his own pereryra for half the price when ha has 30 yes 30 scouts around the world. Wonder how much 30 scouts costs every year and yet we only sign 2-3 hopeless "talents" from outside Italy every year.

And why we have a youth academy when nobody per tradition ever comes thru there. Really the structure of this club is so lame and ive just been hoping so much that marotta would suprise me and that he needed some time and all this but its not gonna happen.

Take a look at the good he has done. Pogboom is a once in a lifetime, Vidal was handed to him by Voeller then Pirlo was thrown out of milan and Barzagli really was a fluke then there is Asamoah who is great but also cost 18 mill and Licht at 14 ohh and his real masterpiece was stealing from the club in europe with most integrity and having such a great guy burn his home and soul.
BoBo is not impressed.


Bro Licht was 10 million with all the bonuses spread in 3 years. And the money you count 200+ million are spread in years so its not the same liek paying in full. Vidal was not handed if he was then why didn't Roma,Chelsea, Real, Inter, Milan move for him? Instead we did ? Barzagli was Marotta deal and his wish. Same goes for Pirlo. That's football for every bad move there's good one.
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Post by salmano9 Sat Jan 24, 2015 11:56 am

The Italy Coach spoke to Tuttosport and was asked about his former club amid reports Real Madrid and Paris Saint-Germain are prepared to pay €100m for Pogba.

“It would allow the club to buy two or three top level players, even though nowadays it is more difficult to realise who will make the team really step up a gear,” said Conte.
===
Maybe conte left cause he didn't have enough money to work with, so he decided to actually sell pogba for that big money and pep refused. Very Happy
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Post by Katy Perry Sat Jan 24, 2015 3:47 pm

elm_baraja_shaman wrote:the thing is this is not 2001, things have changed...... the media would get scent of a Pogba move before it even happens and all teams are gonna start pricing their scrubs high (not to mention their quality players), this is when Marotta would resort to buying Sassuolo and Udinese talent and get ripped off hard, with that, it'd be a hard backward step with us with some acquisitions hoping the next "Pogboom" happens again which is 1 in every 100 purchases..... given these likely premises, I'd rather keep Pogba given Marotta's track record (don't get me wrong he has his merits) but I simply don't feel safe knowing Marotta has 100m, i smell the next Pepes and cos all over again, i'd only sell Pogba if somehow we are getting Moggi or a DM of his ilk to handle the 100m mulla....
You say that teams are going to price their players high, that's right, but at the same time you got the player whose price can be priced up far more than any other player in the planet.

Like I said, you can't foresee what Marotta would do after selling Pogba for a big chunk of money as Marotta never had to sell anyone for huge money and replace him but it's really unlikely that Marotta/Agnelli/Allegri/Nedved/whoever would sell Pogba to make a less competitive team. They would only sell him if it meant buying 2/3 WC players with the money and make the team more competitive, otherwise they wouldn't.

You can't say that he would replace him with another "Pogboom" as Pogba wasn't bought after Vidal was sold to directly replace him. He was bought as a sixth choice midfielder behind Marchisio, Pirlo, Vidal, Giaccherini, Marrone and he rapidly climbed the hierarchies. Like I wrote before this signings of unknown players are not for the imminent present, they're for the future and it's not like they fail 99 times out of 100, sometimes they do fail and sometimes they make it into Juve, into their NT or even cause a 100M profit out of them.
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Post by salmano9 Wed Jan 28, 2015 11:59 am

Pogba will be sold in 3-4 years. .. We can't give him more than 5m per season... That would be insane.
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Post by Juveman17 Wed Jan 28, 2015 2:35 pm

We need to hold onto this kid for quite some time, the 3-4 year range is a good one for us to allow him to grow and possibly win a Balon D'Or in the period which would skyrocket his value.
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Post by DeviAngel Wed Jan 28, 2015 2:50 pm

salmano9 wrote:Pogba will be sold in 3-4 years. .. We can't give him more than 5m per season... That would be insane.

You never know what future holds.
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Post by sportsczy Thu Jan 29, 2015 12:04 pm

Raiola: Pogba leaves this year or next

source: Gazzetta dello Sport interview

Paul Pogba’s agent Mino Raiola says the Frenchman will leave Juventus ‘if not this year, the year after’.

The midfielder is one of the hottest properties in Europe, and has been linked with the likes of Manchester City, Paris Saint-Germain and Real Madrid.

“I’ll say what my dad always taught me: don’t sell and then regret,” Raiola told Gazzetta dello Sport.

“If they [Juventus] don’t sell Pogba, they won’t have the money to build a team to win the Champions League.

“If they want to keep him, then they have to build a team which is so strong that Paul can continue to grow, but if they don’t sell him they won’t have the money to do it.

“The departure of Pogba should be considered regardless of what they then do with the money. When Juve sold Zidane it opened up a new cycle for them.

“How long will Pogba stay in Italy? Everyone has their cards close to their chest, let’s see who gambles.

“PSG is the most natural: if we want to go, who can tell us no?

“But I don’t know whether that’s a card to play right now.

“Could he stay? Renewing [with Juventus] was easy, I wouldn’t have renewed if it would create a problem for Juve or weaken Paul. I want those who believe in him to pay a premium.

“If Paul leaves Juve, he wants to do it to go to the top. So if it’s not this year it’ll be the year after.

“In the meantime, Paul has a good reputation and pay level so he can stay another year.

“He’s the only big star available in the summer, if someone wants him then the price could even be above €100m, if you can’t get [Cristiano] Ronaldo, [Lionel] Messi or [Zlatan] Ibra[himovic] then there’s only him.

“Real Madrid? The more they say they don’t want him, the more I enjoy it. That’s the way they are. Today they say they’re not interested, tomorrow he’s wearing the crown on his shirt.

“An agent has to look after the interests of his player, and that might coincide with what the club wants.

“But sooner or later you have to choose. For example, if [Manchester] City are willing to give Juve €110m for Pogba, but Real bid €80m.

“So say in this case Paul chooses Real - then there will be war between me and Juve.

“He’s a Ballon D’Or player, like Nedved.”

The agent also detailed how Juventus should spend a potential Pogba windfall, telling the Bianconeri to buy his client Henrikh Mkhitaryan, Felipe Anderson of Lazio and PSG’s Marco Verratti.
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Post by dronte Thu Jan 29, 2015 12:13 pm

Typical Raiola Very Happy sell Pogba and buy each of his clients so he can make bigmoneyz.

But in a few things, he is right. We can't really invest in the team if we don't sell, and we got one of the oldest team in Europe. There has to be several replacements in the following years. It won't be easy to stick with him for long.

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Post by salmano9 Thu Jan 29, 2015 1:31 pm

*bleep* *bleep* CHEAP ASS SERIE A!!!!! WHY CANT'T WE KEEP THR BEST PLAYERS IN THE WORLD FFS!!!??? *bleep* THIS SHIT... THIS REALLY MAKES ME MAD!
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Post by DeviAngel Thu Jan 29, 2015 3:56 pm

salmano9 wrote:*bleep* *bleep* CHEAP ASS SERIE A!!!!! WHY CANT'T WE KEEP THR BEST PLAYERS IN THE WORLD FFS!!!??? *bleep* THIS SHIT... THIS REALLY MAKES ME MAD!


calm down, this always happens in football
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Post by GIGItheBest Thu Jan 29, 2015 3:57 pm

Wow, this is bad news. Any chance this is just the agent talking and not saying what Pogba actually wants. Because maybe Pogba himself would like to stay.
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Post by DeviAngel Thu Jan 29, 2015 4:01 pm

GIGItheBest wrote:Wow, this is bad news. Any chance this is just the agent talking and not saying what Pogba actually wants. Because maybe Pogba himself would like to stay.


I have nothing against if he goes for 100 million and we invest them in Cavani, Mkhitaryan and Koke/Veratti
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Post by GIGItheBest Thu Jan 29, 2015 4:18 pm

DeviAngel wrote:
GIGItheBest wrote:Wow, this is bad news. Any chance this is just the agent talking and not saying what Pogba actually wants. Because maybe Pogba himself would like to stay.


I have nothing against if he goes for 100 million and we invest them in Cavani, Mkhitaryan and Koke/Veratti


I'd be fine with Koke and/or Veratti, but there's a chance we can get them without selling Pogba. Also, Cavani is getting a bit old and I don't know how good Mkhitaryan is. I would try to get Lacazette instead of Cavani and Reus or Firmino instead of Mkhitaryan.
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Post by sportsczy Thu Jan 29, 2015 4:57 pm

Juve can't pay the wages of a Cavani... or anyone of that ilk even if he's available. He makes 10 mil net of taxes. With 100 mil, Juve would need to pay 50 mil for the fee and save the other 50 to pay half his wages over 5 years.

Verratti would cost 70+ mil... PSG have no incentive to sell unless it's for something obscene too. They're on record saying that they're not interested in Pogba if it's to lose Verratti.

guys like lacazette, laporte, bacca, etc are more in line.

Juve are like dortmund and atleti... that's the business model.
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Post by DeviAngel Thu Jan 29, 2015 5:24 pm

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