OFFICIAL: FIFA Ballon d'or 2013 - Voting extended

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Post by Pip Tue Oct 29, 2013 7:26 pm

Harmonica wrote:OFFICIAL: FIFA Ballon d'or 2013 - Voting extended - Page 7 I1a049

Messi was better last season and has been better this season, and carried team more. All this being injured or half fit almost half the time. It's amazing really.
Opta ratings look decent enough when it is just them three. Look at the rest of the list and this is what you find:

OFFICIAL: FIFA Ballon d'or 2013 - Voting extended - Page 7 2013%2f10%2fBallon-1

Don't you love stats?

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Post by Hawky Tue Oct 29, 2013 8:45 pm

2009 - Barcelona wins treble - Messi is the most outstanding performer in that team - Ballon d'Or is rightly given to him.
2010 - Inter wins treble - Sneijder the most outstanding performer, also with a World Cup Final. Award should have gone to him or to Iniesta/Xavi.
2011 - Barcelona wins La Liga and Champions League, Messi the most outstanding performer, I don't care about CR goals really. Award rightly given.
2012 - Chelsea wins CL by accident, no outstanding players in that team. Spain wins the European Championship. Messi breaks all possible goal-scoring records and has probably the best year of his career. Award rightly given.
2013 - Bayern wins treble with Ribery and Robben as their instrumental players. No player had a particular outstanding season (as Messi had in 2012). My top 3 would be Ribery, Messi, Ronaldo, in this order.

If we go a little further back in time, we see the following pattern:

2008 - Man Utd wins CL, CR wins Ballon d'Or.
2007 - Milan win CL, Kaka wins Ballon d'Or.
2006 - Barcelona win CL, Italy wins World Cup - Cannavaro wins Ballon d'Or (it's up for debate).
2005 - Liverpool win CL with no stand-out performer, award goes to Ronaldinho for his La Liga performances.
2004 - Porto win CL, Portugal finalist in EURO, however the award goes to Shevchenko - it's up for debate, I would have given the award to Deco.

So basically every year the best player of the best team wins it, with the sole exception of years where some players had great years (Messi in 2012, Ronaldinho in 2005).

Don't turn it into a Messi butthurt discussion because there were cases in the past of players that didn't actually deserve to win it and won it (see Shevchenko and Cannavaro).

And I don't care about the Ballon d'Or / FIFA World Player differences - the best teams get more exposure and the best players in those teams will certainly be rated higher no matter what the "official" rules of the award say - and it's a subjective award after all.
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Post by sportsczy Tue Oct 29, 2013 9:55 pm

Ribery didn't have an outstanding season? Why don't you ask a Bayern fan since you never watched them play ffs Laughing
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Post by Collblanc Tue Oct 29, 2013 10:54 pm

sportsczy, are you getting paid to talk down Messi? :bow:
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Post by Yeezus Tue Oct 29, 2013 10:58 pm

Don't know what old smelly Pirlo is doing there when Vidal was the one who won em Serie A with his majestical penalty kicks and Action Packed golazos.

EDIT: And his heart was pumping Juventus' points pretty much.

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Post by Hawky Tue Oct 29, 2013 11:02 pm

sportsczy wrote:Ribery didn't have an outstanding season?  Why don't you ask a Bayern fan since you never watched them play ffs Laughing
Ooops, my bad, I didn't get to praise a French player as much as you would have wanted to. What's your problem? I even said he's first on my list. And drawing conclusions like "you never watched them play" to support your ideas (???) is childish to say the least.

For me "outstanding season" equals 91 goals in a year (Messi 2012) or doing magic on the pitch every single match (Ronaldinho 2005). Ribery had a great year and he should win it, but it wasn't "outstanding". To each his own definitions Very Happy.
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Post by Casciavit Tue Oct 29, 2013 11:04 pm

Collblanc wrote:sportsczy, are you getting paid to talk down Messi? :bow:
Nope, he just has a strong bias for French players. Debating with him when it comes to French players is a waste of time really...
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Post by Collblanc Tue Oct 29, 2013 11:08 pm

Just like the lies he told a couple of pages ago? Just prove him wrong and he'll say something like 'it was fun talking to you all LOLOLOL and then goes back to overratedfrenchcrossaint.com/forum - the guy is such a joke. Most biased member on this forum. Even more then halamadrid. Or Harmonica. Or Valkyra(!?).
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Post by rwo power Tue Oct 29, 2013 11:41 pm

Hawky wrote:For me "outstanding season" equals 91 goals in a year (Messi 2012) or doing magic on the pitch every single match (Ronaldinho 2005). Ribery had a great year and he should win it, but it wasn't "outstanding". To each his own definitions Very Happy.
For me an outstanding season is keeping 18 clean sheets in 34 matches and allowing only 18 goals against in 34 league matches or 0.58 goals per match in all competitions :coffee:
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Post by Khaled Wed Oct 30, 2013 2:03 am

Robben and Muller were as good as Ribery in 2013.
In fact in the UCL Semi-Final and Final, both out-shined Ribery!
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Post by Khaled Wed Oct 30, 2013 2:05 am

rwo power wrote:
Hawky wrote:For me "outstanding season" equals 91 goals in a year (Messi 2012) or doing magic on the pitch every single match (Ronaldinho 2005). Ribery had a great year and he should win it, but it wasn't "outstanding". To each his own definitions Very Happy.
For me an outstanding season is keeping 18 clean sheets in 34 matches and allowing only 18 goals against in 34 league matches or 0.58 goals per match in all competitions :coffee:
What about the mistakes Neuer did this year? :DNeuer made some big saves, but also some stupid mistakes last season with Bayern and Germany... [I now remember 2 vs Gladbach and Kazakhstan]. His performance wasn't consistent...
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Post by BarrileteCosmico Wed Oct 30, 2013 2:31 am

Lopez and Weidenfeller did well, but neither was a top 23 player during the past season.

Personally if it were me the award would be:

1. Ribery
2. Messi
3. Mueller

Although I can see the argument for 1st and 2nd getting inversed.
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Post by DeletedUser#1 Wed Oct 30, 2013 2:41 am

Some Barca fans are more concerned about Messi winning this award than they are of their own future.

Who cares? Messi/CR/Ribery don't give a freaking damn about you arguing with a random internet person over who is a better ****rider.

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Post by ronalessi Wed Oct 30, 2013 3:06 am

Natalie Portman wrote:Some Barca fans are more concerned about Messi winning this award than they are of their own future.

Who cares? Messi/CR/Ribery don't give a freaking damn about you arguing with a random internet person over who is a better ****rider.
I agree with this. It's quite funny what most of us invest our time and effort in doing actually. I'm planning to make some changes of my own.
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Post by rwo power Wed Oct 30, 2013 7:41 am

Khaled wrote:
rwo power wrote:]For me an outstanding season is keeping 18 clean sheets in 34 matches and allowing only 18 goals against in 34 league matches or 0.58 goals per match in all competitions :coffee:
What about the mistakes Neuer did this year? :DNeuer made some big saves, but also some stupid mistakes last season with Bayern and Germany... [I now remember 2 vs Gladbach and Kazakhstan]. His performance wasn't consistent...
What about the numerous misses of CRonaldo/Ribéry/Messi? Messi even didn't manage to convert some penalty recently, CR needs around 10 shots to finally score, Ribery missed the open net as well etc...

If you want to slate Manuel Neuer for very few mistakes, you should consider failed 100 percent goal chances as mistakes as well!

(Actually I mainly wanted to point out that using just scoring goals/assists as basis for "best player" is somewhat lacking.)
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Post by lszanto Wed Oct 30, 2013 7:55 am

Might aswell be renamed to the Bollon s'core going to the best striker in the world...
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Post by Kamikaze692 Wed Oct 30, 2013 8:16 am

rwo power wrote:
Hawky wrote:For me "outstanding season" equals 91 goals in a year (Messi 2012) or doing magic on the pitch every single match (Ronaldinho 2005). Ribery had a great year and he should win it, but it wasn't "outstanding". To each his own definitions Very Happy.
For me an outstanding season is keeping 18 clean sheets in 34 matches and allowing only 18 goals against in 34 league matches or 0.58 goals per match in all competitions :coffee:
For some (like me) that would also mean having an amazing defense, which needs to be recognized just as much as the GK. :coffee:
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Post by rwo power Wed Oct 30, 2013 9:18 am

Kamikaze692 wrote:For some (like me) that would also mean having an amazing defense, which needs to be recognized just as much as the GK. :coffee:
Which is why I consider a "Best Player" Ballon d'Or really off the mark anyway - it needs to be split in GK / Defense / Midfield / Strikers at least.
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Post by sportsczy Wed Oct 30, 2013 2:42 pm

Collblanc wrote:Just like the lies he told a couple of pages ago? Just prove him wrong and he'll say something like 'it was fun talking to you all LOLOLOL and then goes back to overratedfrenchcrossaint.com/forum - the guy is such a joke. Most biased member on this forum. Even more then halamadrid. Or Harmonica. Or Valkyra(!?).
What lies are you talking about Chunky?
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Post by billy_gr Wed Oct 30, 2013 2:50 pm

give it to the frenchman already.
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Post by Footyfan Thu Oct 31, 2013 12:01 pm

urbaNRoots wrote:Robben actually made the list.

*bleep* hilarious... Laughing
Why should not he?

He won Bayern 2 Trophies - Pokal when he scorer a Wonder Goal against Dortmund.

And he was MOM in atleast 4 of the matches of the last 5 matches against BVB, Juve, Barca and 2nd best player in the other.

His stats are very good consideringt they are not inflated by scoring 4 against Horrible La Liga Defenses nor is there 20 PK's to boost the same.

I think the biggest contribution to anybody other winning the B D'or has been from Robben's side. He is the reason Ribery might win it as without him with 1 BL Title Ribery would not even be in contention. As great consistent Ribery he was nowhere decisive in the last 5 Matches when it was needed.

He was a bit of Robben's Side-Kick in 2009-2011 during LVG Era and Robben matches him Key-Pass and also eclipses in Goals and Assists/Minute.

Bayern were in the dark ages being a non-entity in football when LVG's mad experiments and Robben's brilliance changed the fortune of Bayern.

The B D'or is for the year 2013 and Robben was un-injured and thoroughly brilliant throughout 2013 Calendar Year.

Minus Penalties Stats Wise and Importance Wise helping People win Trophies he has been as good as anyone.

Also Super-Cup 2013 he was MOM and in Super-Cup 2014 he scored 2 great goals in the 2-4 loss and was the only one fighting against Dortmund. He might not have the mass media or minutes to rack up the stats but he signifies the spirit of the B D'or.

I'd be glad if he can come No.3 or No.4 atleast. It will be a good recognition for his career.


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Post by Kamikaze692 Thu Oct 31, 2013 12:16 pm

The most damning part of this list is that there is only Lewandowski from the Dortmund squad. The fact that neither Reus, Gundogan, Gotze made it while we have Ozil, who was merely a bystander in the UCL Semis, and Pirlo, in the 23 man list is hilarious to say the least.

Ok, Dortmund were well off the pace in the league, but a team making it to the UCL Finals being represented by only one player is beyond my belief. Its a total joke of an award, and I seriously couldn't care less who wins it in Jan.
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Post by Footyfan Thu Oct 31, 2013 12:37 pm

Kamikaze692 wrote:The most damning part of this list is that there is only Lewandowski from the Dortmund squad. The fact that neither Reus, Gundogan, Gotze made it while we have Ozil, who was merely a bystander in the UCL Semis, and Pirlo, in the 23 man list is hilarious to say the least.

Ok, Dortmund were well off the pace in the league, but a team making it to the UCL Finals being represented by only one player is beyond my belief. Its a total joke of an award, and I seriously couldn't care less who wins it in Jan.
Ozil was bloody brilliant for Real. I have not seen his CHL matches but IMO he should walk into the list. Cr7 did not do anything special in CHL either.

The list is based on repuation of previous season and not on 2013 Calendar Year.

Gundogan, Goetze and Reus all 3 should absolutely walk into the Top 23. No Doubt about that. Its very unfortunate. 2nd isnt really a big off the pace in the league.

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Post by Kamikaze692 Thu Oct 31, 2013 12:48 pm

Footyfan wrote:
Kamikaze692 wrote:The most damning part of this list is that there is only Lewandowski from the Dortmund squad. The fact that neither Reus, Gundogan, Gotze made it while we have Ozil, who was merely a bystander in the UCL Semis, and Pirlo, in the 23 man list is hilarious to say the least.

Ok, Dortmund were well off the pace in the league, but a team making it to the UCL Finals being represented by only one player is beyond my belief. Its a total joke of an award, and I seriously couldn't care less who wins it in Jan.
Ozil was bloody brilliant for Real. I have not seen his CHL matches but IMO he should walk into the list. Cr7 did not do anything special in CHL either.

The list is based on repuation of previous season and not on 2013 Calendar Year.

Gundogan, Goetze and Reus all 3 should absolutely walk into the Top 23. No Doubt about that. Its very unfortunate. 2nd isnt really a big off the pace in the league.
Apart from finishing top scorer and scoring winners in the R-16 and Quarters u mean?? If so, i agree with you then..... :coffee:
Ozil was totally outrun and out played in the semis defeat vs BVB. He even had a horrible miss in the return leg with the scores at 0-0. I would definitely take Reus or Ilkay Gundogan over Mesut in the top 23
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Post by zigra Thu Oct 31, 2013 12:57 pm

Based on last season Gündogan should be in the list just like Javi Martinez but both have been injured since the start of the new season and it's about the whole calendar year. Half a year just is not enough to make the list. Same could be said about Götze who only played about 2000 minutes in 2013 so far.
There's no excuse why Reus didn't make the list though. That's just plain stupid.
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Post by Footyfan Thu Oct 31, 2013 1:04 pm

Kamikaze692 wrote:
Footyfan wrote:
Kamikaze692 wrote:The most damning part of this list is that there is only Lewandowski from the Dortmund squad. The fact that neither Reus, Gundogan, Gotze made it while we have Ozil, who was merely a bystander in the UCL Semis, and Pirlo, in the 23 man list is hilarious to say the least.

Ok, Dortmund were well off the pace in the league, but a team making it to the UCL Finals being represented by only one player is beyond my belief. Its a total joke of an award, and I seriously couldn't care less who wins it in Jan.
Ozil was bloody brilliant for Real. I have not seen his CHL matches but IMO he should walk into the list. Cr7 did not do anything special in CHL either.

The list is based on repuation of previous season and not on 2013 Calendar Year.

Gundogan, Goetze and Reus all 3 should absolutely walk into the Top 23. No Doubt about that. Its very unfortunate. 2nd isnt really a big off the pace in the league.
Apart from finishing top scorer and scoring winners in the R-16 and Quarters u mean?? If so, i agree with you then..... :coffee:
Ozil was totally outrun and out played in the semis defeat vs BVB. He even had a horrible miss in the return leg with the scores at 0-0. I would definitely take Reus or Ilkay Gundogan over Mesut in the top 23
CR7 wa not good enough to get the job done when it required most against Dortmund, to produce that one moment of brilliance. Everyone in Real misses chances, Cr7 has so many shots. There is no doubt he scores goals, important one's too. That is why he is a World Class Player

Ozil is one of the reasons Real went this far. He was brilliant against Dortmund in the group stages and he scored the FK which helped Real get a point.

Besides I agree with the above poster this is for the year 2013. Goetze and Gundogan were injured for half a season.

Reus not there is a crime though. Ozil on the whole for 2013 should walk into the Top 23 Spot.

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