Transfer Rumours

free_cat wrote:Luiz was poor at the confederation cup except Spain.

That is rubbish.... how do you explain Brazil only conceding one goal with him on the pitch then?

Hell they conceded more goals with Dante on the pitch for an hour than they did with Luiz for the rest of the tournament.

Dante was terrible vs Italy, Luiz is easily the better player.

Exceedingly harsh to judge Dante on his one match when he has had little time to build an understanding with Thiago Silva, particularly given that Luiz himself was appalling against Italy back in the 2-2 draw in Geneva.

Agreed in general that Luiz had a good tournament, however everyone is also forgetting the superb job that was done by Brazil's midfield to shield the back four from pressure in the first place.

Tbh Dost i agree but Luiz has been performing exceedingly well for a long time and people refuse to accept it.

Also that some defensive pressure was applied with Dante there but he still looked a lot worse defensively than Luiz did.

On Dante i don't think he's anywhere near as good as people claim, its the defensive pressure in front of him which is key.

Suddenly he and Boateng look godly and its no coincidence.

Its also no coincidence that Mascherano and Pique have gone to the scrap heap since the defensive pressure was stopped when they were very solid before hand.

Agreed in principle about Dante, though it must be remembered that he was also an integral part of bringing Gladbach into the top four after barely escaping relegation the previous season, he's clearly a most talented defender. Doubtless his job is made far easier though by the superb footballing machine of Bayern.

I know that posters refusing to give credit where it is due when players improve is an issue that particularly bugs you so I can definitely understand why you're so vocal about Luiz. In truth I think he's almost been harmed by his use in midfield at times under Benitez and the associated myth that he performed better in midfield than in defence. I think he still needs a calm head beside him, something that perhaps Pique is not, however people also often forget how defenders mature with age and peak far later than other players. No doubt, Luiz will continue to improve with each season under the right management, however in all honesty I don't see Chelsea parting with him in any case. It is likely a lost cause for Barcelona.

Yeah i do say exceedingly rash things sometimes i'll agree with that

Its not just Dante and Boateng, Alaba also looks godly but thats mainly because of ribery who was basically playing as a LB vs Barca,for example.I personally think they are going to be found out under Pep.  

About Luiz, i think he has been performing even better than TS for us.He is a bloody amazing footballer who has some crazy Lucio-esque moments.I dont think he will ever change though.

Dante profit from Bayern's amazing team this season, that's why he is rated this high. He is not a top defender, same with Barzagli. Luiz on the other hand has lots of talent and incredible ability, with the potential to become better in the future, considering that he is just 25!?

at 25 i reckon he is probably already at his "potential" as we speak.

BarrileteCosmico wrote:Jd don't see how xavi's fitness plays a role kn cesc's decision since both song and sergi should be picked ahead of him for that position. The issue is that cesc is iniesta's natural sub and we don't have enough time to negotiate for an appropriate replacement.

Look alfred it doesn't matter much what you and I think. There's a hierarchical system at Barca right now and I just don't see it changing. Last year Fabregas had first right to both Xavi's and Iniesta's positions even with Thiago very much there. Now with Thiago gone his right is even more set in stone. At times last season Cesc played in Messi's position but this will be less this year because we have a better front line, we have a new crack forward in Neymar who will be on the left but in Messi's absence could be in the centre and my hunch is Tata won't want a midfielder like Cesc playing as a forward be in false 9 or whatever. As far as my view is concerned I strongly debate the comment that Cesc is Iniesta's natural sub. I have never seen him like that. Cesc as he is today in my view is fit to play ONLY the trequartista/number 10 role and that role doesn't exist at Barca. Hence he is just not required here. However we sold the player who was our best replacement for Xavi and a good replacement for Iniesta as well in Thiago. This clearly indicates that we want to keep Fabregas at any cost. If we had any intention of selling Fabregas we would have done hundred times more than we did to keep Thiago. So although Cesc doesn't suit us, just for his overall class and stature, he will without doubt have first right to those positions. Song and Roberto are way below in the pecking order. I am nearly 100% sure of this but if as the season progresses I am proved wrong I will be incredibly surprised.

windkick wrote:At the same time, how can he demand more playing time when Xavi is on the squad ahead of him?

One thing I read that bothered me, was that apparently Thiago actually played the same amount of time he played the year before. BUT, thats not counting his injury in the start of the season. So, if not for the injury he sustained, he would of easily met the mark to keep his value at 90M. Then he wants to leave because we didnt play him enough. Seems really unreasonable to me, considering all the club did for him. He could of been patient just like the rest of the current first teamers, thats all im saying. Looking around he sees a team full of guys from La Masia who are now super stars and at one of the best clubs on the planet. Then he sees Cesc and Pique and how they both left and returned.

So......why did he have to leave? It was just as much on him. He sees Xavi and knows he is aging. He knows its Xavi he will need to fight with to impress Del Bosque for the World Cup. Del Bosque himself advised Thiago to stay. Teams have came for Tello who has an even smaller release clause and he is on his own deciding to be patient. no player is bigger than the club and at the end it was his choice to leave

lets just move on

windkick, your comments are reasonable and I agree this whole matter is open to debate and difference of opinion. My two cents follows.

Thiago should not get to demand a position ahead of Xavi no question but if I am in his place I can't digest the fact that in Xavi's absence it's Fabregas who first gets that role ahead of me even though I am better suited to it just because he is a bigger name.

The part you mention about injury and minutes I have wondered about for long. As some here have said the board needed to be more careful of this. It's an act of carelessness.

How far should we blame Thiago for not being patient and loyal? Every individual is different. Iniesta as I have seen him over the years has a somewhat philosophical approach to life. Xavi is someone very grounded in his beliefs and even when he was not considered key he had a strong sentimental attachment to Barca. Thiago to me represent the cut throat ambitious type who only worry about their own interests. As for Tello it would be conjecture on my part to say this and maybe the kid's decision deserves to be applauded but my feeling is he doesn't quite have Thiago's confidence to be able to go to another team and league and become key right away.

That said Thiago still didn't do anything wrong as such and while he was with us he gave us no cause for complaint. Every person has the right to take decisions in their own interests. I can never excuse the board for not trying much more to keep him. The start of the cycle of stupidity though was the signing of Fabregas and for that dear Pep has to take a large chunk of the blame in my eyes.

BarrileteCosmico wrote:And what do you do if your best prospect suddenly becomes available for 20m? You meet with him, tell him you trust him, and assure him that this is the place to be. What do you do if your best propect is approached by the best team of England and Europe respectively? You meet with him immediately, offer him a new contract, make him feel appreciated.

I'm not so sure what is so hard to grasp about this. The club did nothing. That is completely unacceptable.

100% on the money. Also explain to him what all could/would be tried to get him more minutes on the pitch. It's my personal belief that had all that been done 50% chance he wouldn't have left and had Cesc been put on the market 99% chance he wouldn't have left.

neuro11 wrote:If not T.Silva or Koscielny, i am always ok with Luiz..... i see no reason for facepalm.......

Agree completely mate. I am not unhappy with this possibility. We need a player who is established in the center back position and has played at the highest level. Yes he isn't the best defender around and can do some stupid things at times but he has talent and what I thing he needs to develop fully is top class coaching which I hope Tata will be able to provide to him if he joins. Far from seeing this as a disastrous signing I find this a decent option for us at least considering the state we are in now.

P.S. Pique and Luiz can both improve each other by competition.

barcaholic wrote:
Also, i have a problem with a luiz and pique defensive partnership. they r too similar. both are ball playing cbs who like to get forward whenever possible and help with attack. we shoudn't be looking at good individuals. we want a cb who will add something and improve the team.

Good point. I think if Luiz becomes his central defensive partner Pique should be coached to give up his attacking instincts and play the role of the calmer more withdrawn CB. The faster Luiz should be the one attacking the ball and at times even going forward though not too often.

The Franchise wrote:I think people are not letting go that like 2 years ago David Luiz made some errors while still adapting to English football.

I watched him long since he first got into the Benfica team, I liked his talent back then and I become disappointed by his lack of progress at Chelsea, but still felt he had the talent to do well. I felt he had Lucio written all over him...a talented by flawed player in his early to mid 20's, but once he figures out what he can and cant get away with, a very good defender would remain. I think Luiz isnt finished that learning process but I do think he is on his way.

Last season and much of the season before I saw a much improved David Luiz.

Everyone speaks of his errors, but guys like Kompany made more.

At the Confeds, did he look anything other than a very good defender? He has become really aggressive (in a good way) and he is using his mobility and size very well. He is still a bit dribble happy for my liking, but he is at least able to navigate out of trouble (occasionally into more trouble, true) and can play a good long pass with either foot.

He isnt my favourite player in the world, but I am coming around to the idea.

That being said, dont think he are getting him for 29. I dont see why Chelsea say yes to that.

dani, I was hoping to get your perspective on this matter and this piece is very well written. Agree with pretty much every word. As I said before he can improve by leaps and bounds with specific coaching attention given to him and once he does that he will potentially be better than some of the guys who don't have his natural talent and impressive physicality.

M99 wrote:Completely agree with Dani and Mole. Luiz has hardly done any errors which plagued his first season at Chelsea and has really improved both attacking and defensive side of his game. GL just refuses to accept that players improve, eg: Luiz, Montolivo etc. BTW I though Tata wanted that Argentinean CB Viduez or something like that.

Today so many are praising Kocsielny but he was terrible when he arrived and now has to be called one of the most improved players of the last couple of years. Of course players improve and when they show signs of doing that deserve another chance.

Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:Tbh Dost i agree but Luiz has been performing exceedingly well for a long time and people refuse to accept it.

Also that some defensive pressure was applied with Dante there but he still looked a lot worse defensively than Luiz did.

On Dante i don't think he's anywhere near as good as people claim, its the defensive pressure in front of him which is key.

Suddenly he and Boateng look godly and its no coincidence.

Its also no coincidence that Mascherano and Pique have gone to the scrap heap since the defensive pressure was stopped when they were very solid before hand.

So true mole. The number of truly great defenders is very few in the present era. Its more about how the team plays and how much protection they get from the midfield.

Ganso wrote:I personally think they are going to be found out under Pep.

I couldn't agree more. This season will be an acid test for some of Bayern's players, especially the defensive ones. When they play under a coach who worships ball retention and attacking football we all will see just how good they are at coping with pressure and dealing with one on ones at the highest level.

Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:

free_cat wrote:Luiz was poor at the confederation cup except Spain.

That is rubbish.... how do you explain Brazil only conceding one goal with him on the pitch then?

Hell they conceded more goals with Dante on the pitch for an hour than they did with Luiz for the rest of the tournament.

I though stats didn't matter...? make up your mind.

Luiz was very average in the confed and until Spain game 99% of people called for him to be dropped. Go and check GL threads.

His game vs Spain was wonderful though.

Malaga want to take Afellay on loan and the move is mainly waiting for Tata's approval. There perhaps isn't a team playing in first division in any top league that needs players as desperately as Malaga. The poor fellows have lost nearly half their team this summer.

free_cat wrote:

Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:

free_cat wrote:Luiz was poor at the confederation cup except Spain.

That is rubbish.... how do you explain Brazil only conceding one goal with him on the pitch then?

Hell they conceded more goals with Dante on the pitch for an hour than they did with Luiz for the rest of the tournament.

I though stats didn't matter...? make up your mind.

Luiz was very average in the confed and until Spain game 99% of people called for him to be dropped. Go and check GL threads.

His game vs Spain was wonderful though.

Stats don't matter but its pretty obvious Brazil look defensively better with Luiz than without.

messixaviesta wrote:Malaga want to take Afellay on loan and the move is mainly waiting for Tata's approval. There perhaps isn't a team playing in first division in any top league that needs players as desperately as Malaga. The poor fellows have lost nearly half their team this summer.

Afellay has been terribly unlucky with Injuries. I hope he has a an injury free season and become a starter for malaga if the move go through.

windkick wrote:at 25 i reckon he is probably already at his "potential" as we speak.

Hard to say. Lucio was much better at 30 than 25...and he wouldnt be the only defender you could say that about.

Most defenders peak at 28-30.

Lucio played in a defense that sat deep and didn't require him to make as many runs, so I wouldn't call his case an example for Barca purposes. But I agree that defenders especially get better with age and usually peak at 28-29ish.

I really hope we beat Madrid to Gündogan in the future.. that man screams talent and I would fear to see him against us.