[BOOKS] Game of Thrones for the Literate

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Post by BarrileteCosmico Sun Dec 28, 2014 2:35 pm

Time magazine thinks that GRRM is 'almost done' with TWOW

Spoiler:
[BOOKS] Game of Thrones for the Literate - Page 39 Jn0bnAq

Between editing, printing, advertising and publishing I think Dec 2015


Last edited by BarrileteCosmico on Sun Dec 28, 2014 9:01 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by M99 Sun Dec 28, 2014 8:53 pm

GRRM's computer got hacked Shocked This is what they found.

Spoiler:
https://i.imgur.com/aBm9L.gif
.
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Post by BarrileteCosmico Sun Dec 28, 2014 8:58 pm

That's because everyone knows he writes it in DOS-based 1980s program
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Post by Jonathan28 Mon Dec 29, 2014 4:36 pm

LOL! Time magazine don't know shit.
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Post by Jonathan28 Mon Jan 05, 2015 1:58 am

The more and more I read the books, the more and more I doubt Jon being the son Rhaegar and Lyanna and him being the special saviour many book readers are expecting him to be. It's too common a trope in fantasy novels and we all GRRM doesn't do common.

I don't know, something feels really off. I think we're getting suckered here.
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Post by zigra Mon Jan 05, 2015 3:23 am

I have zero doubts about him being their son.
However I don't expect him to be the saviour either. The good prince who grew up not knowing who he was saving the world? Gimme a break. He's a major char but I really don't expect him to become the world saving nice king.

Now I don't really expect the Others to be a force of destruction either. As said earlier I expect/hope there's a lot more to the whole stuff and someone saving the world won't even be needed.

And in the end a Lannister sits the throne Thumbs up
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Post by dostoevsky Mon Jan 05, 2015 7:13 am

I agree with zigra, I think the circumstantial evidence suggesting that he is their son is too strong to discount but it doesn't necessarily require that he become a saviour figure as a result. It's uncertain whether his true parentage will ever be truly acknowledged by the masses or to what extent his identity will define the rest of his contribution to the books. It might become a point of political intrigue or it might be irrelevant. I certainly don't expect Martin to elevate a single character above the others however unless it inadvertently destroys them. We are expecting a bittersweet ending after all.
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Post by Jonathan28 Mon Jan 05, 2015 4:51 pm

I'm 100% certain that Ned isn't Jon's real dad, but there's just something about Ashara Dayne that is really bugging me. I'm not saying she's Jon's mother, but there's something about her which I just can't figure out yet.

I'll need to re-read the series a few more times to try and sort this out, because I'm willing to bet a load of money that Ashara Dayne is going to come up during the reveal of Jon's true parentage.

On a slightly related note, Aegon and Dany, I have some major suspicions about them which I'll share at the later point, because I'm not certain about it yet. I'll just say that if my suspicions are correct, we're probably going to be getting a hell of a lot shocking true parentage reveals in the next book, and I'm really looking forward to it.
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Post by RealGunner Mon Jan 05, 2015 5:00 pm

Jon needs to lead the others against the evil dragons imo

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Post by zigra Mon Jan 05, 2015 5:04 pm

And behead Dany :bow:
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Post by urbaNRoots Mon Jan 05, 2015 5:18 pm

After being stabbed to death by your "brothers" can someone really maintain good?

At this point it looks more likely that Jon becomes the Nights King rather than some kind of saviour of Westeros.

Btw we have some cast news: Young Cersei who will appear in flashbacks will be played by Nell Williams. Also a new character named Ghita has been cast.

http://watchersonthewall.com/young-cersei-cast/
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Post by urbaNRoots Mon Jan 05, 2015 5:31 pm

@Jonathan28 wrote:I'm 100% certain that Ned isn't Jon's real dad, but there's just something about Ashara Dayne that is really bugging me. I'm not saying she's Jon's mother, but there's something about her which I just can't figure out yet.

I'll need to re-read the series a few more times to try and sort this out, because I'm willing to bet a load of money that Ashara Dayne is going to come up during the reveal of Jon's true parentage.

On a slightly related note, Aegon and Dany, I have some major suspicions about them which I'll share at the later point, because I'm not certain about it yet. I'll just say that if my suspicions are correct, we're probably going to be getting a hell of a lot shocking true parentage reveals in the next book, and I'm really looking forward to it.


What I find interesting about the Daynes is them naming one of their kids (Ned Dayne) after the guy who killed a famous family member of theirs and after the guy whom Ashara killed herself for (presumably). There's some info missing here which I can't explain.
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Post by RealGunner Mon Jan 05, 2015 10:09 pm

Cersei + Maggie the frog flashback confirmed

http://watchersonthewall.com/young-cersei-cast/
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Post by Dante Mon Jan 05, 2015 11:14 pm

Jonathan@ Sorry for the long post , not sure if you will read it , but you reminded me of some extra tin foily theory i had some time ago , maybe we shared similar ideas ? Curious to find out. I am eager to see what you have thought about what you said there on true parentage reveals in the next book and all that. Spoilers used because it's big.

Part 1-

Spoiler:
For a short while , i used to humour myself with the idea which had Daenerys being the daughter of Ashara Dayne . That Ned seeing how Robert allowed-wanted Rhaegar's children to be murdered and given how he was in love with Ashara , he wouldn't reveal Ashara's secret ; her daughter Daenerys , Rhaegar's bastard and enemy of Robert's crown . Ned despite being in the opposite side of this war and being in love with her , saves both their lives by keeping this a secret , whilst also having returned their most priced heirloom , Dawn , to the Daynes. Not really to wonder why the Daynes would remember Ned dearly after all that . And we still don't know exactly what happened to Ser Arthur , going by Ned's words , Ned alone certainly wasn't Ser Arthur's demise. Something happened which we do not know , the Daynes do though and they don't think any worse of Ned.


Ned promises his beloved he would keep her Targaryen bastard a secret - which we know from holy canon , this apparently stillborn child was actually a daughter ( ADWD , Ser Barristan ) - , taking the exact same promise he did with his sister for Jon . Ned basically saved House Targaryen from extinction despite their war . I hypothesised Ashara never fell off that tower and instead her family had to fake her death to end all suspicion before it ever begins , for her's and her child's life . She headed for Dorne to seek Doran Martell's help , the only powerfull Targ loyalist remaining in Westeros.

Dany is sent to the Water Gardens and Ashara gives her the name Daenerys , from the Princess Daenerys , for which the Water Gardens were built for . Ashara named her Targ child Daenerys for her Targaryen ancenstry and in honour of the original , who made it possible to hide her child in open sight at the Water Gardens , once ago taking pity on the children of the servants and allowing them peasants to use the pools and all . A tradition whick kept on and keeps on to this day , good enough for her own child as well. What happens with Ashara after that i cannot say , probably went to Essos . I like the theory which suggests she's Quaithe. That would explain her interest and help for Daenerys . Probably the mask too...Ashara was notoriously beautiful , someone could have recognised her in time. However , i couldn't explain her magic side , or what ever it is that Quaithe is supposed to be and i can't be bothered right now to refresh my memory.

As for why Daenerys thinks she was in Braavos all this time , that's because she actually was in Braavos after the Water Gardens ; Oberyn Martell took her with him when he went to seal the deal with the sea-lord of Braavos , for the secret marriage pact with Arianne and Viserys . The Martels handed over Daenerys to Viserys , probably thinking she would be better protected away from Westeros , irregardless of how they went on the road later , nobody counted on that one.

Why Viserys lied all these years to Dany? Because he was his father's son , he wouldn't have a baby girl challenge his claim one day , bastard and what not she was Rhaegar's child. . As for Rhaella's daughter , she died on the road to Essos , or in Essos. Ashara's Dany replaced her , same age and all and noone would bat an eye . Ser Willem died and Oberyn and Viserys is now dead. Only Doran knows , Ashara if she's still alive and.. the House of the Undying.

Part 2-

Spoiler:
In Dany's vision of him , Rhaegar said , there must be one more ; the Dragon has three heads , reffering pretty clearly to a baby . That baby is meant to be John and Rhaegar did meant John. However , The Undying name her , Child of Three . Daenerys listens to this and asks , why child of three, i don't fecking get it . They reply , because three heads has the Dragon.

How all that make Rhaegar Dany's father and not her bro? The Dragon in everything prophecy/history/symbol of real targaryen , was Rhaegar. Rhaegar thought he was the Prince that Was Promised , but later was convinced he wasn't , because it would be his son , or so he thought? The question here is why he thought like that , because he somehow figured out he was the Dragon the prophecy talked about , not the prophesised PTWP , but the Dragon the prophecy speaked about.

Rhaegar left three children behind , the three heads of the Dragon. Aegon , Jon , and Daenerys , all from different mothers ,(here's some super extra tin foil) exactly like Azor Ahai forged his sword in 3 different attempts , to create the Lightbringer. First is Aegon , The Prince that was Promised , 2nd is Jon , The Last Hero and last is Dany , Azor Ahai reborn; reborn , like Daenerys is named The Last Dragon after the last Last Dragon was , who else..Rhaegar.How convinient for Dany to be called that and not something mad. All 3 of them are to be the Lightbringer which is supposed to save the world from the long night ; i think they will pludge Westeros into destruction and their war will be marked as the 2nd dance of the dragons. Jon from the North , Dany from the East , Aegon from the South .

However this story needs so many assumptions to work , with pretty huge leaps of faith on how and why Rhaegar would shag Ashara , Viserys has to be more complicated than what we know and last but not least , assuming Rhaella's Daenerys just died on the road to Braavos is the absolute killer of the theory and why i stopped thinking about it. Cannot be proven through text , nothing indicates towards there , came out of my ass because i couldn't find any better connection. So there's that.. However , there are things which still make me leave a very tiny possibility open , things such as Ser Barristan saying sometimes watching Daenerys was like watching Ashara's daughter , or how awkwardly Dany thinks more of Rhaegar than any of her parents , or how Viserys always using the phrase 'sweet sister' in full irony and mean intentions . And of course , the Undying saying clearly to Dany , that she is a child of three because three heads has the dragon; we know which dragon needed a 3rd child , because the dragon has three heads. This connection won't leave my mind , being so blatantly obvious what it all means , not unless i read specificaly what the three heads is meant to be from Martin himself . As far as i am concerned that is what my mind tells me , i don't see any dragonriding in what the Undying are saying there , certainly i don't see Viserys and Rhaegar , they are dead and useless info for Dany , useless in the sense she went there for guidance(in the hero's path) and to take her dragons back. The all knowing undying saying she's a child of three and meaning really Rhaegar and Viserys is dumbshit to the core , it's like Dany hearing a common fraud with her magic ball in a tent , predicting already established stuff just for show. It has no place in there , yet there it is . Child of three and Rhaegar and the Undying reveal the connection , heads are children . Dany is one of the three children of the Dragon , Rhaegar Targaryen .

The reason noone talks about this and all think the heads are supposed to be dragonriders , is Ser Jorah . Ser Jorah who is supposed to be Dany's mentor in Clash of Kings makes this connection right away after Dany has escaped THOTU . Dany asks him , what does he think it means and he makes the most dumbfkd connection a mentor would make. Really , a peasant of flea bottom would say that. Yet everyone and their mothers never thought about this twice . In my honest opinion , the best red herring of ASOIAF. Right away , the one thing that cought everyone's attention , is supposedly clarified by none other than Jorah , who most like and Dany trusts . Yeah , i am not convinced , nothing , absolutely nothing suggests in the slightest about dragonriding and even Ser Jorah himself clearly says there , they were the "original" dragon riders.. From where else do we conclude that it speaks about dragon riding? From absolutely nowhere. It's just a red herring , a red herring anyobody can come on his very own , only to be confirmed by Ser Jorah and forever stop thinking about it all.. I preffer to read what Rhaegar and the Undying said , which by the way most things said there have already come true. To conclude , my crazy theory about secret parentage left unchecked is Dany being Rhaegar's daughter , irrdegardless of Ashara . I haven't fully dwelt on the possibility of Lyanna having twins so far , i don't know about that. But that phrase of Rhaegar's and of the Undying Ones still bothers me whenever i think about it . Let's see what they meant by Child of Three in 2021 when ADOS comes out Proud Anyway. I had actually a long file writting down every connection and thoughts i had made through the text , even the exact parallel Hero's path which Dany takes ; Through the land of the dead/Undying and how in most of the times regarding things like that , it is the father that reveals such info of life and death ; in our case , the dragon has three heads , the only info Dany still recalls from THOTU and it was revealed to her by none other than Rhaegar in that vision the Undying showed her. And there are a couple shady connections of Rhaegar-Dany father-daughter even from AGOT. Like a continuation of the Last Dragon , being passed on to Daenerys through her Targ dreams. She saw her face when he lifted the visor to peek into Rhaegar's face. Weird.


Jonathan , i am eagerly awaiting to see what you wanted to say about parentage reveals and all that. I always like reading theories no matter what , most guys here don't post their genuine ideas , sadly. I am sure most if not all had that crazy theory , your own , that you wanted to share . I would welcome anyone's personal theory , personally speaking , doesn't matter to me how tinfoily it is. You never know what another may catch from that unheard tin foil of yours , maybe it sparks some interesting discussions .

Sorry for the long post couldn't compress it without leaving some details as to what led me where in some cases , here have a banana banana
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Post by McAgger Tue Jan 06, 2015 6:10 pm

Oh shit, A Feast for Crows is getting really interesting.

Loved the passage of the small council discussing Ironmen's overtaking of Shield Islands. Cersei vs Tyrells Proud Loras basically walked into Cersei's trap ffs. Sad
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Post by McAgger Tue Jan 06, 2015 6:56 pm

I hope they show the lesbian scene between Taena and Cersei in the show :wub:
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Post by urbaNRoots Tue Jan 06, 2015 7:04 pm

Don't call me James wrote:Oh shit, A Feast for Crows is getting really interesting.

Loved the passage of the small council discussing Ironmen's overtaking of Shield Islands. Cersei vs Tyrells Proud Loras basically walked into Cersei's trap ffs. Sad


Cersei is truly Tywin with teats Mad
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Post by McAgger Wed Jan 07, 2015 8:40 pm

Wow, Genna Lannister's remark about Tyrion being the true son of Tywin is mighty high praise there.
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Post by McAgger Wed Jan 07, 2015 10:57 pm

Arya is blind Shocked That escalated quickly ffs. Outta nowhere Laughing
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Post by McAgger Thu Jan 08, 2015 2:34 am

PLEEAAAASE NOOOOOOOO.

Spoiler:
Not Loras Sad *bleep* gotto be kidding me.
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Post by McAgger Thu Jan 08, 2015 3:02 am

If Maggie the Frog's foretelling comes true as it has thus far then I think
Spoiler:
Jaime will be the valonqar that chokes the life out of Cersei, not Tyrion.

Volanqar means little brother so you would think it only applies to Tyrion but Jaime came out of the womb after Cersei so he still younger than her technically.
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Post by McAgger Fri Jan 09, 2015 2:02 am

Goddam Cersei is a ruthless bitch. She's balls to the walls crazy. Margaery stands no chance ffs. Specially because Cersei thinks the prophecy speaks of the Tyrell girl Laughing  Though I think it's quite obvious that the prophecy means Daenerys as the younger queen.

Also Jaime almost getting himself in a duel with Blackfish over pride rofl Got off the hook there. Though I love how more and more he's forced to use wits over pure instinct in his decisions since he doesn't have his combat hand to back him up.

Book is getting really intense now.
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Post by urbaNRoots Fri Jan 09, 2015 2:56 pm

This is probably an unpopular opinion but I think the younger more beautiful queen is not Margaery or Dany or Arianne... it's Sansa. I don't have anything to back this, just a hunch based on Cersei being who she is and you will understand why I think this after you finish AFfC.

That Jaime chapter is one of my favourites in AFfC
----------
Ser Brynden raised an eyebrow. “Do you even know what honor is?” A horse. rofl

The Blackfish to Jaime: "You must be blind as well as maimed, Ser. Lift your eyes, and you will see the direwolf still flies above our walls." :bow:

Jaime to Edmure: "'You'll want your child, I expect. I'll send him to you when he's born. With a trebuchet.' With a trebuchet, Jaime thought. If his aunt had been there, would she still say Tyrion was Tywin’s son?" Shocked
----------

Btw do you suspect why Edmure fears that singer? And who do you think is he?
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Post by McAgger Fri Jan 09, 2015 3:39 pm

You could be onto something there as I just finished the chapter with Littlefinger gifting the gift of the Vale, Harry the Heir and Winterfell to Sansa. Though for this to happen of course Tyrion must die Sad

I absolutely love Jaime's chapters in this book. And yes that whole chapter is goat.

I'm suspecting he's the singer that was singing during the Red Wedding. Though I could be wrong. Could be something to do just with Edmure. I remember in one of Cat's chapters her saying Edmure hated singers because of something that they've done to him.
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Post by McAgger Sat Jan 10, 2015 1:18 am

OH MY GAWD WAT???? Shocked

Cersei rofl

Lmao I knew there was trouble the second she went into the Great Sept of Baelor to see the High Holiness.

All the power and she becomes the master of her own undoing Laughing
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Post by dostoevsky Sat Jan 10, 2015 3:08 am

Someone went through the original ADWD manuscript and Martin's notes confirm that Coldhands is not Benjen.

http://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/2rtcaa/i_went_to_the_cushing_library_and_went_through/

@James: You probably now understand why RG and I want Cersei to survive for as long as possible. Not because we like her but because her insanity is so entertaining. Laughing
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