Re: [BOOKS] Game of Thrones for the Literate

by urbaNRoots Wed Oct 15, 2014 5:22 am

I finished Dance too just recently. I'm one of those weirdos who liked Feast more Laughing

The whole Tyrion/Daenerys/Quentyn/Victarion/Slavers meet up was potentially very interesting and then it dragged and it dragged and it dragged some more and just when I thought "OK this is totally going to pay off in the end" we get one of the worst Daenerys chapter in the whole series and a bunch of cliffhangers. I've read Feast and Dance back to back but I can imagine the frustration of those who've waited 5-6 for Dance to come out. But atleast the Northern arc was amazing, Wyman Manderly you *bleep* legend :bow:

As for Quentyn, yeah poor guy. Just wasn't up for the job, he nor Doran couldn't have known that Daenerys judges people based on their looks rather than their personality. I bet she'll like Victarion for being a hardass despite his raping and drowning of random people who've done nothing to him.

With all that said Winds of Winter is going to be so so good based on the result of these cliffhangers, Battle of Winterfell what really happened, Battle of Meereen, Daenerys going to Westeros, (f)Aegon attacking Storms End, Jon Snow dying - Jon Targaryen reborn :coffee:

etc.

by arabprince Wed Oct 15, 2014 9:51 am

Dante wrote:Quentyn Martell was likeable , but i distinctly recall whilst reading, questioning what he trully expected to achieve once he got to Daenerys , it was obvious to the reader his plan would probably fail. And his Dragontamer plan was... madness . It took him and his fellowship hard blows to even get near Daenerys and then .. 'oh' .

Having said that , i remember reading a couple of theories which suggest perhaps Quentyn survived . I don't buy into that , but maybe you would like to read about it. However , there might be Winds sample chapter material in these theories , procceed at your own risk .

Anyway , welcome mate , you are no longer a child of summer .

Also . Benjen .

Just as I read this I am watching videos on the Martell conspiracy which says that very thing. You know what, its believable...

by RealGunner Wed Oct 15, 2014 2:32 pm

Basically Euron is Benjen who is also the dusky woman who has sex with Victarion along with Euron is actually Daario as well at the same time and Ned Stark in the past re-incarnation.

by Dante Wed Oct 15, 2014 2:48 pm

arabprince wrote:
Dante wrote:Quentyn Martell was likeable , but i distinctly recall whilst reading, questioning what he trully expected to achieve once he got to Daenerys , it was obvious to the reader his plan would probably fail. And his Dragontamer plan was... madness . It took him and his fellowship hard blows to even get near Daenerys and then .. 'oh' .

Having said that , i remember reading a couple of theories which suggest perhaps Quentyn survived . I don't buy into that , but maybe you would like to read about it. However , there might be Winds sample chapter material in these theories , procceed at your own risk .

Anyway , welcome mate , you are no longer a child of summer .

Also . Benjen .

Just as I read this I am watching videos on the Martell conspiracy which says that very thing. You know what, its believable...

Yeah , tinfoil tends to be Laughing

urbaNRoots wrote:I finished Dance too just recently. I'm one of those weirdos who liked Feast more

The whole Tyrion/Daenerys/Quentyn/Victarion/Slavers meet up was potentially very interesting and then it dragged and it dragged and it dragged some more and just when I thought "OK this is totally going to pay off in the end" we get one of the worst Daenerys chapter in the whole series and a bunch of cliffhangers. I've read Feast and Dance back to back but I can imagine the frustration of those who've waited 5-6 for Dance to come out. But atleast the Northern arc was amazing, Wyman Manderly you *bleep* legend

As for Quentyn, yeah poor guy. Just wasn't up for the job, he nor Doran couldn't have known that Daenerys judges people based on their looks rather than their personality. I bet she'll like Victarion for being a hardass despite his raping and drowning of random people who've done nothing to him.

With all that said Winds of Winter is going to be so so good based on the result of these cliffhangers, Battle of Winterfell what really happened, Battle of Meereen, Daenerys going to Westeros, (f)Aegon attacking Storms End, Jon Snow dying - Jon Targaryen reborn etc.

urbaNRoots wrote:Forgot to mention that I was completely SHOCKED to hear that Davos got his head chopped off in White Harbor, I mean WHAT THE *bleep*, he was my favourite, it's got to be some misinformation, what is STANNIS going to do without his onion knight

Dante wrote: RIP Davos

RealGunner wrote:Yea was shocked to read that too. One of my favourite characters

[BOOKS] Game of Thrones for the Literate - Page 30 Lulcas11

by BarrileteCosmico Wed Oct 15, 2014 2:56 pm

Urban did you come across the Frey pies yet?

by Dante Wed Oct 15, 2014 2:58 pm

RealGunner wrote:Basically Euron is Benjen who is also the dusky woman who has sex with Victarion along with Euron is actually Daario as well at the same time and Ned Stark in the past re-incarnation.

What are you RG a shownly ? Everybody knows what happened to Ned , Benjen was sent ranging up north , went to Hardhome , took a boat to Kings Landing , found his way to the black cells and learned from Jaqen how to change faces and swapped with Ned. Ned went North and later became Coldhands. Benjen then knocked Jaqen off , took his face and gave Neds face to Jaqen , who was Euron but secretly Daario . And that explains why Jaqen-Ned lied in his confession , to be allowed to take the black and then escape . Benjen then went on with his plans in the Iron Islands and Meereen.

by RealGunner Wed Oct 15, 2014 3:00 pm

Dante wrote:
RealGunner wrote:Basically Euron is Benjen who is also the dusky woman who has sex with Victarion along with Euron is actually Daario as well at the same time and Ned Stark in the past re-incarnation.

What are you RG a shownly ? Everybody knows what happened to Ned , Benjen was sent ranging up north , went to Hardhome , took a boat to Kings Landing , found his way to the black cells and learned from Jaqen how to change faces and swapped with Ned. Ned went North and later became Coldhands. Benjen then knocked Jaqen off , took his face and gave Neds face to Jaqen , who was Euron but secretly Daario . And that explains why Jaqen-Ned lied in his confession , to be allowed to take the black and then escape . Benjen then went on with his plans in the Iron Islands and Meereen.

Can't wait till Euron turns out to be GRRM's own self in the books

by M99 Wed Oct 15, 2014 4:28 pm

Some things that have been confirmed by the World Of Ice And Fire.

Spoiler:

Melisandre's ones are the most interesting. I am excited for the book. Along with the extensive infro and lore, it has some amazing artwork in it.

http://www.georgerrmartin.com/world-of-ice-and-fire-sample/

robert vs rhaegar:

dragonstone:

by Dante Wed Oct 15, 2014 4:47 pm

Rhaegar

Thanks for the post M99 , great stuff. I am going to buy the book as a Christmas present for myself, though i am not sure if i want it in greek .. i am like 99% sure i want it in English , i am a bit weird with this kind of things. I want to read from the source , not from translation .

Also , can't wait to read more about the Daynes in particular .

by urbaNRoots Wed Oct 15, 2014 5:23 pm

Dante wrote:

urbaNRoots wrote:Forgot to mention that I was completely SHOCKED to hear that Davos got his head chopped off in White Harbor, I mean WHAT THE *bleep*, he was my favourite, it's got to be some misinformation, what is STANNIS going to do without his onion knight

Dante wrote: RIP Davos
RealGunner wrote:Yea was shocked to read that too. One of my favourite characters

You assholes Laughing

Was glad to be deceived though, I was grinning through that whole chapter when Manderly reveals his plans and his absolute loyalty to Starks. I hope Rickon marries Wylla, dat passion for the Starks :bow:

BarrileteCosmico wrote:Urban did you come across the Frey pies yet?

Frey pies? Did Wyman poison those "missing" Freys?

by urbaNRoots Wed Oct 15, 2014 5:25 pm

M99 wrote:Some things that have been confirmed by the World Of Ice And Fire.

Melisandre's three leeches were a trick, she already knew that Joffrey, Balon and Robb were going to die. EDIT: the app specifically says that she saw their deaths in her flames.

Further confirmation of her trickery.

Melisandre is confirmed to specifically see "Jon Snow's" face in her fires rather than just "snow".

I always believed AA reborn was Dany and Melisandre seeing "Snow" was yet another misinterpretation. It made sense, born amids salt and smoke and all that.

Jon Snow is said to have officially died at Castle Black.

I was really hoping he's not dead, one more resurrection added in the series. At this point I'm hoping he just stays dead, I'm tired of all these people coming back.

by Dante Wed Oct 15, 2014 5:52 pm

urbaNRoots wrote:
Dante wrote:

urbaNRoots wrote:Forgot to mention that I was completely SHOCKED to hear that Davos got his head chopped off in White Harbor, I mean WHAT THE *bleep*, he was my favourite, it's got to be some misinformation, what is STANNIS going to do without his onion knight

Dante wrote: RIP Davos
RealGunner wrote:Yea was shocked to read that too. One of my favourite characters

You assholes

Was glad to be deceived though, I was grinning through that whole chapter when Manderly reveals his plans and his absolute loyalty to Starks. I hope Rickon marries Wylla, dat passion for the Starks

BarrileteCosmico wrote:Urban did you come across the Frey pies yet?

Frey pies? Did Wyman poison those "missing" Freys?

Frey pies , 3 big , meaty , Frey pies. I didn't catch on it either . Check about it on either Asoiaf Reddit or Asoiaf forums , Manderly gives the 3 Freys 3 horses to signify the end of hospitality and guest right , but the horses are damaged or something , they are somehow caught , killed and made into pies , which he feeds folk inside Winterfell , including himself Proud

that's just a very lame and brief description of the 'theory'. Check it out

by Dante Wed Oct 15, 2014 6:03 pm

urbaNRoots wrote:
M99 wrote:Some things that have been confirmed by the World Of Ice And Fire.

Melisandre's three leeches were a trick, she already knew that Joffrey, Balon and Robb were going to die. EDIT: the app specifically says that she saw their deaths in her flames.

Further confirmation of her trickery.

Melisandre is confirmed to specifically see "Jon Snow's" face in her fires rather than just "snow".

I always believed AA reborn was Dany and Melisandre seeing "Snow" was yet another misinterpretation. It made sense, born amids salt and smoke and all that.

Jon Snow is said to have officially died at Castle Black.

I was really hoping he's not dead, one more resurrection added in the series. At this point I'm hoping he just stays dead, I'm tired of all these people coming back.

Jon is coming back you know it , everybody knows it. Martin didn't even try to be vague about it , when asked he said , so you think he's dead do you?

And i think the real reason of his death is not to learn R+L=J , but to release him of his vows to the NW and the NW itself. I believe after Jon was ceasared , the wildlings have no apparent reason to stay civil anymore and obviously almost none in the NW willingly tolerates the wildlings there.. there should be a huge fight and i don't expect many survivors from the Night's Watch part .

By the time Jon gets resurrected , the NW will be no more and the Wall will be unmaned , the wildlings either fully fled or the last remnants of people on the wall. I think this was the end of the NW as we knew it and Jon will have to take a whole new arc from here after , his last act in the story .

I also have this notion , that the magic that prevents Others and wights to pass the wall is somehow related to the men of the NW holding the wall. Remember in AGOT when Ned says about how the men who hold the wall make all the difference , rather than the actuall wall ?

I believe with no NW to guard the wall , the Others would be magic free to pass the wall and i totally expect them to do so by the end of TWOW , unless the NW could reman the wall again , which i seriously doubt they would , or who would for that matter . I think the NW ended with Jon tbh.

by M99 Wed Oct 15, 2014 6:55 pm

Jon will 100% warg to Ghost. His last word was "Ghost" Remember the boring as hell ADWD prologue featuring Varamys Sixskins? He wargs into his wolf when his body dies. What is the point of the prologue? It has no relation to the main story other than making us understand that a person's mind can live with his bonded animal when his body dies. I think Jon will be stored on the ice cells while he lives on as Ghost and Melisandre will resurrect him. The show had Melisandre finding out about Thoros resurrecting Beric so that she can resurrect Jon later on.

by RealGunner Wed Oct 15, 2014 6:57 pm

Yea agreed.

However I think GRRM has one or two twists planned which will completely take us by surprise. He knows everyone knows what might happen. Wouldn't put past him to plan some shittery

by BarrileteCosmico Wed Oct 15, 2014 7:02 pm

urbaNRoots wrote:Frey pies? Did Wyman poison those "missing" Freys?

http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Frey_Pies/Theories

Just when you thought you could not like Wyman any more Proud

by BarrileteCosmico Wed Oct 15, 2014 7:07 pm

Jon enjoys so much plot armor that the whole Julius Ceasar thing just pisses me off. Why kill him if you're going to bring him back? For a flimsy cliffhanger no one will believe?

by BarrileteCosmico Wed Oct 15, 2014 7:08 pm

M99 wrote:
dragonstone:

Not sure if dragonstone or mordor

by Dante Wed Oct 15, 2014 7:13 pm

Yeap, that's what i believe as well , it's very popular at reddit where i lurk frequently the last 2 or so months , or the Asoiaf forum. The one little suspicion i have , well not for Jon wargin Ghost , or with Melisandre resurrecting him , both are certain imo . I talk about the ice cells.

Who would exactly store him in there ? Pretty much only Mel . NW assasinated him , no way they would store him in there before they burned the sht out of him and the wildlings would OBVIOUSLY want to burn him before anything else , and soon , like they are known to do so with any dead human. Basically Mel will have to fight for his body if the matter arises in the first place , unless the NW is obliterated by the wildlings at that point , which i find very possible tbh. I guess then Mel would be free to do as she likes with deadJon.

I guess she will go searching for Shireen then Laughing

by Dante Wed Oct 15, 2014 7:17 pm

BarrileteCosmico wrote:Jon enjoys so much plot armor that the whole Julius Ceasar thing just pisses me off. Why kill him if you're going to bring him back? For a flimsy cliffhanger no one will believe?

Did you originaly think this way , though? If you frequent forums and such , then yeah it becomes obvious it was kind of lame.

But a reader who will never visit there , won't be so confident about it. Sure astute readers will. But most readers don't jump into AsoiafForums or /r/asoiaf after each book.

Anyway , you are right of course , by no means it makes it any better , just saying , for many people it's a different experience. I too would have liked the one being ceasared , actually staying ceasared , once and for all. We just know it won't be the case with Jon.

by BarrileteCosmico Wed Oct 15, 2014 8:48 pm

Yeah not for a minute did I believe that he was dead, I had no idea how he would survive but I was sure that he would. By that point in time I was already aware of R+L=J. I suppose if you're ignorant of this you might believe he does not enjoy plot armor.

by M99 Wed Oct 15, 2014 8:58 pm

BarrileteCosmico wrote:
urbaNRoots wrote:Frey pies? Did Wyman poison those "missing" Freys?

http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Frey_Pies/Theories

Just when you thought you could not like Wyman any more

Some other things that are easy to miss. Abel the singer in Winterfell is Mance Rayder, the three eyed crow is Brynden "Bloodraved" Rivers, Jon Connington is gay and was in love with Rhaegar, Ser Robert Strong is the frankenstein version of The Mountain, The Hound might be the Gravedigger in Quiet Isle, Jaqen H'ghar is The Alchemist in AFFC prologue/Pate in AFFC epilogue, Alleras in The Citadel is Sarella, one of the Sand Snakes in disguise. Then there are theories of course like R+L=J, Aegon Blackfyre, The Grand Northern Conspiracy.

Oh and Dante, there are a lot of people in the Nights Watch that like and respect Jon. The only people against Jon were the senior officials like Bowen Marsh and Othell Yarwyck. The Queens men has no respect for him but the rest of the Nights Watch like the new recruits and the wildlings all supported him. They can store him in the ice cells if Melisandre says she can save him. I think he will be put on the ice cell because of a vision Bran had about him.

Btw Jon's death ruined me lol. I felt like crying after I read it.

by RealGunner Wed Oct 15, 2014 9:07 pm

I didn't know for months that Abel was Mance lmao. I was so engrossed with the actual story that i completely missed out the other hints and details. Laughing

Re Jon

The whole wildling army led by Tormund will revolt because Tormund loved Jon and all the wildlings knew Jon was the one who was trying to save them. Might as well be a 3 way war between the queens men, wildlins and Anti-Jon movement.

I think I refused to believe for a second Jon was actually dead. Granted Robb died and so did Oberyn but Jon is the song of ice and fire ffs. He will be the last man standing

by M99 Wed Oct 15, 2014 9:19 pm

Anti-Jon is like five or six people (Bowen, Othell, the septon, some of their cronies). I hope Jon as Ghost rips all of their throats out.

Btw speaking of Mance, there is a new theory that he is Rhaegar Laughing

by RealGunner Wed Oct 15, 2014 9:29 pm

Who is actually....

wait for it..

nearly there

Euron.

by Dante Thu Oct 16, 2014 5:59 pm

M99 wrote:Anti-Jon is like five or six people (Bowen, Othell, the septon, some of their cronies). I hope Jon as Ghost rips all of their throats out.

Btw speaking of Mance, there is a new theory that he is Rhaegar

well , yes Jon still has loyal people to him .. But these 5-6 you mention , those who plotted to ceasar him , will be in charge of the Night's Watch after Jon , if they ever get the chance at least , a fight with the wildlings seems inevitable.. Pyp and Grenn , Satin , anyone loyal to Jon , wouldn't be ordering or deciding anything. Wouldn't even be considered for command or anything like that. So if there's a NW left standing and it's the group who assasinated Jon in charge , they have no reason to put him in the ice cells. For what , to wake up as a wight and kill him again Laughing

? No , the NW won't put him in the ice cells .

Anyway , the issue over Jon's body is narratively solved on it's own with wildlings vs NW , which is coming if Jon's last chapter is any indication. Wildlings win the fight , Mel has the body . NW is obliterated , maybe a dozen or so notable survivors are left standing , which i think most of them would run away from the Wall. I guess guys like Pep and Grenn , or Edd , would still be there if not killed.

I am almost sure , even though i know i shouldn't be , that once Jon wakes up , the NW will be destroyed , at best a few remnants of NW brothers and some wildlings , maybe. Jon's death is a way to move him away from the wall and this notion conviniently solves anything for Jon . Everything is set in place for his final act in the story , which begins with Jon free of the wall and his vows , again , rather conviniently for my liking.

Of course imo , nothing more.

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