[BOOKS] Game of Thrones for the Literate

Thank you for your time mate. As always , your opinion is greatly appreciated and respected. Now , i failed to delve into the review in my post , because i wanted anyone who would read this to read it as i did , for better or for worse. It was kind of a douche move ( i am sorry ) not to say that she declined to finish even the first book . In fact , i was meant to include that in the post but i then decided not to , simply because i doubted who would going to read the whole of it . lol

Now , on your reply. First of all , let me be clear , i do not embrace this review . I do not agree with most of what she says and i too find the lack of actual analysis or reference , annoying and i certainly didn't like the attacks on the author. Basically , all the rest you said ; no need for further words. In her defence , she perhaps could not do anything extended in the review , because she would spoil things . Having said that. How could she ever do that without finishing the books , i could not say. She didn't even finish the first but rather learned , assuming , the basic plot from another source.

You did a fine post on this and i don't feel the need to add much more , if at all . I posted the review because i thought that a few of the points , however vague or unfounded or generalised , were worthy of a good discussion . What i kept from this , putting aside for one sec she didn't even finish the first book , lol , is the part of the deaths .

You obviously explained against that well enough and honestly , i do agree with that part of your reply and your reasoning behind it. However , she's not concerned with the how of these deaths. If they match his world and what lead to their deaths. She makes it a statement soon enough in her review that authors should not shy away from the unpleasant of life. And the unpleasant part works quite well into his world , so she wasn't about that. What i got from that part is ,

she's concerned with the notion the author himself saw these characters as tools of subversion of the familiar trope of the hero and his journey to fullfilment , neglecting the part of their conclusion as characters just to shock the audience with admittedly , shocking deaths. That Martin created them for the sole purpose of their deaths , so the story can continue in a different way , rather than the usual hero archetypal story , but!; with ruining the trust between author and reader , because according to her he wrote these characters to be sympathised with , to be heroes and all. She feels cheated basically Anyway , all that , despite being interesting to debate , fall off asunder when you consider this :

keely wrote:It's the same with sudden character deaths: treat them like a history, and your plot will become just as choppy and hard to follow

It's choppy and hard to follow and it seems to be nothing personal to her , simply because she didn't even finish the first book .. lol. Of course she would include something like that in her review . Neds and Robbs deaths were history to her and she can't see how these characters have actually been fullfiled in their deep sense of honor and morality. We see humans here who were deeply invested in their beliefs and no mater how old these 2 would get , they would always be "the Stark of Winterfell" with all that goes with it. Martin may have done what she claims , he actually says it himself there so it cannot be argued , but , the characters were fullfiled in every sense despite their early demise , Keely just "wasn't there to see it in the books" . Even Robb , who was a young lad , is basically described as having been trained how to be a lord all his life ; how well he knew his father's "code" , even if not trully his father. How he fell in love and how he made mistakes and how he earned respect from friends and foes alike. Likewise Ned , although he would never reach the third age , you could say he lived a life full of everything , a fullfiled character with all his strengths and weaknesses , strugles and fortunes , war and peace , how he lived as a son , as a brother , as a friend , as a politician , as a soldier and commander , as servant as much as lord , as much as fullfiled love as unfullfiled . A character from start to finish is there. debunked/

Keely knows shit of all that , because how could she , not even reading agot. Having said that. No mater how much of a fantasy apostle she may be , i really wish she finished the books . She could represent another point of view , one that we do not meet often and actually provide for everything she claims . I don't know about pseudo-intellectual but , having seen what she claims she read in her profile , i was quite impressed really. I don't know her obviously .. but there are hundrends of books read there and lots , lots of fantasy. We like her review or not , she does make interesting points , however unfullfiled(irony irony) The part were death is the only conclusion on most characters cannot be denied. It cannot be in a massive series that almost solely deaths can lead the story on. But it happens frequently nonetheless and many of these characters have gone unfulfiled , merely tools for the story , like Quentyn 'oh' Martel. Anyhow , i ll stop here since i already said what i had to say. Not to defend her or anything ..just to point out she could have made a more , reasonable review had she actually done the deed.

As for the 2nd pots of yours Dosto. Well , when i read that link about the fascist aesthetics in fantasy and all , i had read the review 3 times , 1st and then 2 rereads ; to be as much certain as i could of her opinion .

I read , i questioned , i doubted . I say all that because , after what seemed like hours , perhaps i didn't pay the proper attention to the basis of the whole thing. Perhaps i found it boring after so much rereading and my thoughts being on the review . In any case , i don't see the need for it in the first place , even though your post made me change my mind and i will actually read it again .

Anyhow , fantasy is fantasy man , someone could probably take Hitlers' story and make it a great tale of love and rebelion if he wanted to . And it would be great fantasty if done right. What i am saying is , i don't really care if he is indeed right in the link and i don't think proving him wrong actually has any meaning , we read fantasy to be immersed into something else entirely different from reality . I don't need to be educated with fantasy , rather i want to GET HYPE and be immersed and be entertained .

ASOIAF is meant to be politicaly analysed and i agree to that. What i do not like however is the part where he tryhards to find parallels and meaning behind it ; there is none , it is just what it is to tell his story in a world of fantasy. Kingsguard and it's face and background was not created with the fascists beliefs/aesthetics/whathavyou in mind , was created with the notion of loyalty and knighthood and what that all meant to the king of westeros and it's people. That's the notion behind it , now , the people who construct the Kingsguard in our story could be whoever the hell they had to be regardless of that notion , as you well pointed out.
If he wants to see more into it , fine by me , but i don't have to agree with it anyway.

p.s. I lmao with U wot m8

p.s sry for the long post and the structure , can't be bothered to make it seem nice

Some casting news for season 5.

http://watchersonthewall.com/mishael-lopes-cardozo-cast-game-thrones-season-5/

Spoiler:

Didn't know where to post my post-AFFC thoughts since the other thread doesn't allow book talk so here I go.

It was a better read than anticipated after reading reviews of the book, I really enjoyed it.

To get in more detail, my first impression of Doran Martell was what an asshole, but then Arianne's last chapter came and bam it blew me away, he's planning for the long run. Can't wait to see how Daenerys receives Quentyn. Dorne is *bleep* ace.

The Greyjoy uncles are crazy bastards, I don't think I like any of the Greyjoys bar Asha and Euron is an asshole. I wouldn't mind if Tyrell/Redwyne crush these clowns soon.

Cersei just lmao, I think EVERY decision she makes is wrong, I lol'd when Aurane Waters stole her brand new ships . She selected her own small council yet blamed them all useless while ignoring Pycelle, the only one who wasn't being a yesman the whole time and was speaking some sense.

Jaime, I never thought I'd say this but he's one of my favourite characters now, he has realized Cersei has been playing him for a fool the whole time and is slowly redeeming himself. His dialogue with Edmure was one of the best and he has the best one-liners by far.

Will soon get on ADWD so I can read and discuss all the theories and finally be free of spoilers

if you enjoyed AFFC , you will absolutely love ADWD.

Have fun , sweet summer child

Loved AFFC but ADWD was around the same level as ASOS

Although I read it combined so my experience was different.

I know i am tempted to start a reread , but i can't get through this again.. when i finished ADWD and i realised it would take years to read TWOW , it sucked so much lol

Only when Winds gets a definite release date i am starting a reread , no way i am left with nothing again.

Forgot to mention that I was completely SHOCKED to hear that Davos got his head chopped off in White Harbor, I mean WHAT THE *bleep*, he was my favourite, it's got to be some misinformation, what is STANNIS going to do without his onion knight

RIP Davos

Yea was shocked to read that too. One of my favourite characters

"It is always cold on the Wall."

"You think so?"

"I know so, my lady"

"Then you know nothing, Jon Snow" she whispered"

lmfao I posted exactly that when I read that passage. Back somewhere around page 20

One of the GOATEST Passage of GOT

Some speculation on season 5. Don't read urban.

Spoiler:

I am also worried about casting changes. At first my reaction was whatever, not every new cast member will be announced, and especially ones that are supposed to be surprising. But now that they're well into filming I'm at least surprised there haven't been leaked pictures, rumors, etc about the new characters if they were included. I'm now in the A will not be in the TV series camp, which does not bode well for his relevance in the future of the books (ie he's the biggest red herring in the history of fantasy).

Respect for Jon Snow just went up 100%

Executing Janos Slynt the Stark way

Stannis' approval, what a great moment!!!

"Ed, fetch me a block," is one of my favourite moments of the entire series.

Just read an awesome idea of Young Griff in the show.

once again urban dont read:

Right now this is our best hope as he or anyone resembling him have not been cast or spotted in the shooting. And if there is any hope for Euron, he has to be Daario.

Yupp that would be amazing.

Greyjoy family tree from HBO's Inside Game Of Thrones.

Spoiler:

Well at least Euron is there. I can see Asha Yara taking Victarion's role in the story. Maybe Euron will go up against Yara in the Kingsmoot and after he wins commands her to go to Essos and bring him Daenerys. There would be conflict between Yara and Euron because she suspects he is behind her father's death, instead of the whole Euron-Victarion wife screwing debacle.

dostoevsky wrote:

Spoiler:

I'm still not convinced this will not happen either. No reason this could not have waited until next season.

Although, again, rumors do not seem to corroborate this story.

Damn, Rhaegar's/Elia's son is alive

What a twist! One more contender for the Iron Throne with a better claim (not that it matters much), supported by Varys & the Golden Company. Varys you sly dog, just as I was wondering what he's up to

I wonder what this means for Varys' and Illyrios future plans, why did they give the eggs to Daenerys if they were supporting Aegon all along? I guess I just have to continue reading.

Finally finished book 5, so now I can be part of the cool club!

One of my favourite lines had to be "Oh. And then he screamed."

Poor Dragontamer. I genuinely was sad about his fate. I liked his character a lot.

Quentyn Martell was likeable , but i distinctly recall whilst reading, questioning what he trully expected to achieve once he got to Daenerys , it was obvious to the reader his plan would probably fail. And his Dragontamer plan was... madness . It took him and his fellowship hard blows to even get near Daenerys and then .. 'oh' .

Having said that , i remember reading a couple of theories which suggest perhaps Quentyn survived . I don't buy into that , but maybe you would like to read about it. However , there might be Winds sample chapter material in these theories , procceed at your own risk .

Anyway , welcome mate , you are no longer a child of summer .

Also . Benjen .

I finished Dance too just recently. I'm one of those weirdos who liked Feast more

The whole Tyrion/Daenerys/Quentyn/Victarion/Slavers meet up was potentially very interesting and then it dragged and it dragged and it dragged some more and just when I thought "OK this is totally going to pay off in the end" we get one of the worst Daenerys chapter in the whole series and a bunch of cliffhangers. I've read Feast and Dance back to back but I can imagine the frustration of those who've waited 5-6 for Dance to come out. But atleast the Northern arc was amazing, Wyman Manderly you *bleep* legend

As for Quentyn, yeah poor guy. Just wasn't up for the job, he nor Doran couldn't have known that Daenerys judges people based on their looks rather than their personality. I bet she'll like Victarion for being a hardass despite his raping and drowning of random people who've done nothing to him.

With all that said Winds of Winter is going to be so so good based on the result of these cliffhangers, Battle of Winterfell what really happened, Battle of Meereen, Daenerys going to Westeros, (f)Aegon attacking Storms End, Jon Snow dying - Jon Targaryen reborn etc.