Re: The Official Summer Transfer Rumours Thread

by urbaNRoots Mon Apr 29, 2013 11:27 pm

Lex wrote:Do people honestly think Benteke would be an improvement to Giroud? I see that as a giant step down (with all due respect to Benteke)

by Eman Tue Apr 30, 2013 1:33 am

Giroud >> Benteke. Being the best player on a team in a relegation battle does not make you better than one of the most important players on a team fighting for a top 4 spot :coffee:

Anyway, even if he were better (which I don't think he is), he is not the top top top striker we need to take us to the next level. This is the exact same reason I don't want Remy either when some people on here think he would be a good signing: we need a great player if we really want to improve up front. Numbers are not our problem - quality is. If we want to win titles, we need a title-winning-level striker.

by REWB Tue Apr 30, 2013 3:27 am

Geoffrey Kondogbia

by Raptorgunner Tue Apr 30, 2013 4:00 am

LOL, if we sign Benteke. :facepalm:

by VendettaRed07 Tue Apr 30, 2013 4:39 am

Why spend big (in all likelyhood) on Benteke?.. If were gonna buy another striker thatll cost 10+ million they should be better than Giroud..

Put everything into going after Jehovahtic.

I guess IF that doesn't work out, then it would be a good second option, because we really do need depth there. But still shouldn't overpay for him

by SamuelJayC Tue Apr 30, 2013 9:35 am

Not sure why Benteke is getting stick on here. £7m signing from Genk, first season in English football, surrounded by young, inexperienced, bereft of confidence players, some of which aren't good enough for this level right now, and he nets 22 goals - and the season still isn't finished.

He'll probably end up on around 25 goals, an outstanding achievement.

Hey, he might well be a 'one season wonder', but he might not. I'd imagine Spurs would very much be in for him - he'd be perfect in their system.

by furiouswindbottom Tue Apr 30, 2013 11:38 am

Benteke 18 league goals.
Giroud 11 league goals.

Who holds the ball up better? Benteke.
Who scores more goals? Benteke.
Who gets less chances? Benteke.

Who do Arsenal fans prefer? Giroud.

Honestly, blind faith some gooners.

Had a row recently with a gooner for suggesting we sign Fellaini to play CM with Jack.

He said ''Ramsey is 10 times the player Fellaini is''.

Sometimes I give up scratch

by MJ Tue Apr 30, 2013 12:03 pm

Giroud's hold up play is blatantly better than Benteke's.

Giroud's always been one to shoot more often anyway (averages around 7.4 shots per goal)

It's not about straight statistics though, like you tried to make it seem by only comparing their PL goals since stats don't tell half of the story but if you're going to only look at that aspect then it's only fair you draw it all out into the light.

Giroud All Competitions: 17 goals & 12 Assists in 3,194 minutes meaning he contributes to a goal every 110 minutes.

Benteke All competitions:23 goals & 7 Assists in 3,421 minutes meaning he contributes to a goal every 114 minutes.

by Sri Tue Apr 30, 2013 12:15 pm

by urbaNRoots Tue Apr 30, 2013 1:36 pm

From Jovetic, Villa to Benteke Laughing

Pls stay safe guys

by Raptorgunner Tue Apr 30, 2013 1:48 pm

If we are looking for players same level as Giroud or slightly better we might as well call it a season. Giroud is not good enouph for us at best he is a squad player.

''Ramsey is 10 times the player Fellaini is''.
Delusional fans, its the other way around. :facepalm:

by Raptorgunner Tue Apr 30, 2013 1:51 pm

urbaNRoots wrote:From Jovetic, Villa to Benteke

Pls stay safe guys

Its between Benteke and Kone for us, we like to over pay for players and send them on a loan after. Sleep

by Raptorgunner Tue Apr 30, 2013 2:23 pm

PSG confident of luring Arsenal manager Arsène Wenger to France this summer

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/arsenal/10026250/PSG-confident-of-luring-Arsenal-manager-Arsene-Wenger-to-France-this-summer.html

Maybe now we can find that Top Top Top Striker we have been looking for? hmm

by Jay29 Tue Apr 30, 2013 3:27 pm

A player that scores 20-odd goals for a team near the relegation zone in his first Premier League season and is still young as a striker and can therefore still improve, is somehow not good enough for us?

I'm not going to argue this one too much because I believe we need better, but how anyone can outright dismiss Benteke as not good enough or state that he'd be bad signing in any way is beyond me. One season wonder or not, the guy clearly has the ability to play at a higher level he is right now and surpass Giroud's current level.

by Raptorgunner Tue Apr 30, 2013 3:34 pm

GoonerJay29 wrote:A player that scores 20-odd goals for a team near the relegation zone in his first Premier League season and is still young as a striker and can therefore still improve, is somehow not good enough for us?

I'm not going to argue this one too much because I believe we need better, but how anyone can outright dismiss Benteke as not good enough or state that he'd be bad signing in any way is beyond me. One season wonder or not, the guy clearly has the ability to play at a higher level he is right now and surpass Giroud's current level.

I would love to sign him as long we go and sign another top player. I am not mad at signing Benteke, I am just afraid he will be our only signing.

by Great Leader Sprucenuce Tue Apr 30, 2013 4:07 pm

MJGunner wrote:Giroud's hold up play is blatantly better than Benteke's.

No it isn't, link up play maybe but hold up play definitely not.

Also the all competitions thing is just an easy way to make Giroud seem better because pads against 2nd division teams in the cups.

League only is the fairest way and Benteke destroys Giroud in that department.

Its time some of you start respecting lesser known players for smaller clubs and stop acting like they are crap and people like Jovetic ( who has had nowhere near the impact of Benteke this season btw) are the saviours.

by furiouswindbottom Tue Apr 30, 2013 4:22 pm

Sorry guys...

...some of you haven't got a clue.

Ramsey> Fellaini?

Madness. Sheer madness.

by Raptorgunner Tue Apr 30, 2013 4:28 pm

furiouswindbottom wrote:Sorry guys...

...some of you haven't got a clue.

Ramsey> Fellaini?

Madness. Sheer madness.

I know Rasmey> Fellaini shoes.

by Great Leader Sprucenuce Tue Apr 30, 2013 4:29 pm

Ramsey is miles better than Fellaini as a CM.

Fellaini is best off the main striker, otherwise he's not worth the money for big clubs.

by MJ Tue Apr 30, 2013 4:29 pm

Ermmm being a bit ridiculous to discount part of Giroud's goals just because they were against weaker teams like Reading, Brighton etc. but sure, me defending Giroud is disrespecting Benteke and glorifying Jovetic. Seems legit.

Even if you only count PL and CL goals he still posts 13 goals and 9 assists. Surely you count Europe. The only reason I posted bland numbers was to prove the point that stats don't tell half the story, same way saying Benteke is better because he's scored more doesn't tell you his holdup and linkup play is better.

by Great Leader Sprucenuce Tue Apr 30, 2013 4:42 pm

Nope.... all i said all competitions is a way of making Giroud seem better.

The most fair comparison is a league comparison and as i said Benteke easily wins that so its probably why you did it....

Obvious stats only tell a small portion of the story but Benteke has had the better season.

With that said i don't think you should buy Benteke , he's too expensive for one good season its just the whole he plays for a mid table/relegation club so he's not good enough attitude that gripes me.

Same happened when you were linked with McCarthy, because he plays for Wigan its impossible for him to be good.

by Eman Tue Apr 30, 2013 4:43 pm

GoonerJay29 wrote:A player that scores 20-odd goals for a team near the relegation zone in his first Premier League season and is still young as a striker and can therefore still improve, is somehow not good enough for us?

I'm not going to argue this one too much because I believe we need better, but how anyone can outright dismiss Benteke as not good enough or state that he'd be bad signing in any way is beyond me. One season wonder or not, the guy clearly has the ability to play at a higher level he is right now and surpass Giroud's current level.

He can be a good player, but if we sign him for all we know he could flop in his second season. For example, remember when Roque Santa Cruz was looking so great for Blackburn a few seasons back, then he moved to Man City and flopped? Demba Ba has also found it more difficult at Chelsea, for example, and he was not a 1 season wonder. It's a totally different scenario playing for a top team with a different style, more expectations to deal with, and more attention paid to you by other players. Some players can thrive when they move to top teams, but we don't know which type of player Benteke will be.

What we all want is someone we are all very confident in so that we can be sure we'll have a strong squad next year and possibly fight for a title. If we want to get Benteke then alright but the truth is we're only going to be signing 1 striker tops and Aston Villa will want a lot of money for him, and for this money we might be able to afford a more reknowned striker - not a Cavani, but perhaps a David Villa or a Jovetic, who while perhaps overrated on here, has been known to be a good player for more than 1 season. I like Benteke but he seems like a bit more of a gamble than some of the others we have been linked to and right now most of us are fed up with gamble signings.

Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:Also the all competitions thing is just an easy way to make Giroud seem better because pads against 2nd division teams in the cups.

The only '2nd division' teams we have played this season have been Blackburn, Brighton, Bradford, and Coventry. Giroud only scored against Brighton (2) and Coventry (1). Not sure about the number of assists he got in those games, but when you also consider that Benteke faced 2nd division teams too, I don't see why using all competitions would be irrelevant.

furiouswindbottom wrote:Sorry guys...

...some of you haven't got a clue.

Ramsey> Fellaini?

Madness. Sheer madness.

Literally nobody said this between the first time you made this comment and the last time you made this comment. Raptor agreed with you in fact, and I fail to see how someone thinking this has anything to do with their rating of Benteke anyway scratch

by RealGunner Tue Apr 30, 2013 4:47 pm

Well i agree with both sides. Neither of you make any bad points.

It's always hard to see if a player playing for a lower side is genuinely good or just looking good.

Goals doesn't lie. Benteke knows how to finish. But so does Bent. He is a proven goalscorer too. Benteke is obviously better but is he good enough for us ?

With Jovetic, he is technically insane. Might not have scored 18 goals but with his flair and technique, it's hard to not see him succeed at Arsenal.

I am not against Benteke. Arsene once said that he was scouting him and giroud at the same time. If Arsene does go for Benteke, then he must be good.

Also Mole. McCarthy >>>> :coffee:

by Mudcat Tue Apr 30, 2013 4:56 pm

I like Benteke, but one could also make the case that his stats as compared to Giroud's are skewed by the fact that he started six more games and played on a team which has no other player who has scored more than seven goals, leading to more reliance on him as a goalscorer. Arsenal also has Walcott, Cazorla and Podolski with anywhere between nine and 12 league goals. Statistics are a helpful tool, but they rarely tell the whole story.

by Raptorgunner Tue Apr 30, 2013 5:11 pm

£70M to spend this Summer. Laughing

by Jay29 Tue Apr 30, 2013 5:19 pm

He can be a good player, but if we sign him for all we know he could flop in his second season. For example, remember when Roque Santa Cruz was looking so great for Blackburn a few seasons back, then he moved to Man City and flopped? Demba Ba has also found it more difficult at Chelsea, for example, and he was not a 1 season wonder. It's a totally different scenario playing for a top team with a different style, more expectations to deal with, and more attention paid to you by other players. Some players can thrive when they move to top teams, but we don't know which type of player Benteke will be.

You could argue the same with any potential signing. For all we know, Jovetic could prove to be a massive flop in the Premier League, or David Villa could struggle with the physicality, or Adler could make Fabianski proud with some epic flaps at corners... you can go on and on. Fact is, how well a player will do for a new team and in a new environment is a difficult thing to judge and if you start using it as a reason not to sign someone, you won't buy anyone.

Even a player's track record can be deceptive. Players with good goal returns can go on to get excellent goal returns (van Persie, Suarez), while players who did well last year have struggled this year (Aguero). Some can come out of completely no where (Michu). Track record, how they adapt to certain systems, how they cope with pressure, etc. are things that can only be truly judged when a player actually plays for your team.

In the end, you buy players that best suit your team and your ambition. In this sense, Villa and Jovetic would, indeed, be better than Benteke. But at the same time, you can't dismiss Benteke as a potential choice.

What we all want is someone we are all very confident in so that we can be sure we'll have a strong squad next year and possibly fight for a title. If we want to get Benteke then alright but the truth is we're only going to be signing 1 striker tops and Aston Villa will want a lot of money for him, and for this money we might be able to afford a more reknowned striker - not a Cavani, but perhaps a David Villa or a Jovetic, who while perhaps overrated on here, has been known to be a good player for more than 1 season. I like Benteke but he seems like a bit more of a gamble than some of the others we have been linked to and right now most of us are fed up with gamble signings.

Every signing is a gamble for the reasons I've already pointed out. In any case, we're not really considering price when discussing Benteke as a potential transfer target since we've no idea what Villa would want for him.

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