Re: Bayern Munich vs Juventus

by Tomwin Lannister Fri Mar 15, 2013 4:22 pm

I agree with a lot of that too, and see doubting a formation or tactics is one thing, but the sheer ignorance that accompanies opinions about Juventus players from some people is plain laughable.

by Zealous Fri Mar 15, 2013 4:24 pm

Well the people that matter are aware of Juventus's quality. Smile

by Tomwin Lannister Fri Mar 15, 2013 4:30 pm

by Eivindo Fri Mar 15, 2013 4:33 pm

Oh God what a game. Damn germans have enough coefficient points, we need them more!

by Arquitecto Fri Mar 15, 2013 4:44 pm

The hysterics on the injustice of not including Dante, Schweinsteiger (why not make it the whole Bayern squad?) is just hilarious. Mostly because it indicates that they haven’t seen Juventus on a regular basis

For what reason would I take Dante over Barzagli, Cheillini or Bonnuci? All three who have been equally as good as him while serving different roles individually. For what reason would I take Schweinsteiger over Marchisio? Have the ones who lament about the absence of Schweinsteiger seen Claudio Marchisio for the past 2 years? The toughest one is actually between Javi Martinez and Arturo Vidal. I would take Javi Martinez in my team but has he really performed at the incredible levels of Arturo Vidal in the past 2 years? Highly debatable. As go for fullbacks, has Lahm who has been the subject of much criticism for his defensive errors, does he really deserve a spot over Lichtsteiner who has been nothing short of world class? Keep in mind we are speaking in recent times here.

My XI: 3-5-2

Buffon
Barza-Bonnuci-Cheillini
Licht-Javi-Pirlo-Alaba
Marchisio
Gomez-Pizzaro

Why Buffon over Neuer? Why not.

Dante's omission was a touch choice but this 3 in the back all compliment each other so well and seem to get better every year.

Licht as Wingback since he has been superior to Lahm in the past 2 years who has not been at his previous level. Javi over Vidal simply because I prefer Javi as a personal choice. Pirlo is obvious. Alaba has impressed although defensively weak in some areas, his attack is excellent. Marchisio at an AM position and put there to omit Schweinsteiger. Why? If you ask me 2 years ago who I'd take, it would be the German, now I'd take Marchisio without a doubt as he has been that good.

Front line is obvious with Gomez being their best striker and Pizzaro who is an old favourite of mine and if given chances, would out do both Mandzu and Gomez. I won't choose Mandzu because he hasn't done it long enough for me to start over them.

by urbaNRoots Fri Mar 15, 2013 4:53 pm

Why Gomez and Pizarro? lol, Matri, Vucinic, Bendtner and Anelka are miles better. Not even a question.

And Alaba? lulzzzzzzzzzzzzz, Asamoah has been Juventus' best signing and arguably best signing of the season in Europe, the defensively weaker Alaba stands no chance.

Also I might add Conte >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Heynckes.

So with Juventus' whole team being better than Bayern's, the germans have absolutely no chance to beat the mighty Juventus.

Wink

by Tomwin Lannister Fri Mar 15, 2013 4:57 pm

urbaNRoots wrote:Why Gomez and Pizarro? lol, Matri, Vucinic, Bendtner and Anelka are miles better. Not even a question.

And Alaba? lulzzzzzzzzzzzzz, Asamoah has been Juventus' best signing and arguably best signing of the season in Europe, the defensively weaker Alaba stands no chance.

Also I might add Conte >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Heynckes.

So with Juventus' whole team being better than Bayern's, the germans have absolutely no chance to beat the mighty Juventus.

Right then, so what you're effectively saying is that Arqs choices are so unbelievably bias towards Juventus and you can't make a case for having that combined starting XI? No?

by Zealous Fri Mar 15, 2013 5:02 pm

Toni Kroos vs Pirlo hmm

I personally believe whoever gets the better of the other here will go a long way to giving his team the win.

by la bestia negra Fri Mar 15, 2013 5:03 pm

“We were aware that the quarter-finals would present us with a challenging fixture. After Chelsea we’re now playing last year’s second finalists Bayern," the 43-year-old told the official Juventus club site.

“They’re one of the most consistent sides on a European level and will have the advantage of their great experience accumulated over the years. They’ll also be able to take their minds off the league, given their 20-point lead at the top."

Juventus haven not won the Champions League since 1996 and, while he is happy to be back in the latter stages of Europe's premier club competition, Conte says their dream of winning the tournament is a constant motivation.

He added: “The game will certainly be a stimulating affair and we’ll experience it with maximum calmness, concentration and joy.

"We’re chasing a dream and want to enjoy this experience all the way until the end. Last year we watched the Champions League on our sofas at home. This year we’re back playing a key role.

seriously cant wait

by VivaStPauli Fri Mar 15, 2013 5:03 pm

I get not taking Dante because of the incredible quality of the Juve CBs, but there is still no way of not taking Schweinsteiger.
Just play 4-3-3 and have him together with Vidal and Pirlo for all I care.

And Arq, I would take Vidal over Martinez any day. Much closer to the finished article, and way more complete.

by BAYERN_MUNICH Fri Mar 15, 2013 5:05 pm

We are out already, no way we will progress against Juve

by Tomwin Lannister Fri Mar 15, 2013 5:06 pm

Oh before I am accused of bias myself I think that

Juventus collective Defence & GK > Bayerns by a fair margain. Bayern have a great defence mind you

Juventus Midfield probably equal to Bayerns, might even edge it.

Bayerns attack >>>>> ours and it's not even close.

by S Fri Mar 15, 2013 5:07 pm

Thats not Arq's best lineup.Its more like his 'favorite' lineup.Which implies that it indeed is a biased eleven of his.

I knew the Basque representative Javi had to be in his lineup somewhere :coffee:

by VivaStPauli Fri Mar 15, 2013 5:09 pm

AbraKebabra Alacalamb wrote:Oh before I am accused of bias myself I think that

Juventus collective Defence & GK > Bayerns by a fair margain. Bayern have a great defence mind you

Juventus Midfield probably equal to Bayerns, might even edge it.

Bayerns attack >>>>> ours and it's not even close.

I agree, though I think Bayern will win the midfield battle, because Ribéry, Müller, and Mandzukic have an incredible work rate.
Not that the Juve offense doesn't work, but especially Müller and Mandzukic drop deep as if they were box-to-box.

by Arquitecto Fri Mar 15, 2013 5:12 pm

VivaStPauli wrote:I get not taking Dante because of the incredible quality of the Juve CBs, but there is still no way of not taking Schweinsteiger.
Just play 4-3-3 and have him together with Vidal and Pirlo for all I care.

And Arq, I would take Vidal over Martinez any day. Much closer to the finished article, and way more complete.

Viva I vehemently disagree on the Javi-Vidal situation. It will now have to come to comparing individual traits. For me Vidal is a superior shooter (which transcends into goals), has a superior engine and better tackler then Javi as a whole as comparing them defensively would be harsh. Where I feel Javi excels is that like Sergio Busquets, he reads the game better for me in his positioning and intelligence. He hardly covers ground yet contributes so much defensively which also allows Schweinsteiger to ply his trade more efficiently. Javi was bought not just because he can play CB and DM, but because aside from his defence, he is an excellent playmaker and excels in his passing traits over Vidal in this sense. Javi dominates games and is a huge big game presence as his all round game, would have it to be my personal choice over Vidal. Vidal has been better yet it cannot justify him being a superior footballer.

Dante? If I had to replace him, I'd do it for Barzagli with little qualms. It was a difficult omission.

Reason I omitted Schweinsteiger was for Marchisio who I have begun to rate higher over the former. You must also question the absence of Ribery, but he would not fit in my set up. Maybe over Pizzaro to support Gomez in a Seeler (for Hamburg) type supporting role?
And I forgot Mueller btw. I'd put him over Pizzaro then.

by Zealous Fri Mar 15, 2013 5:12 pm

box-to-box false 9 :bow:

by Tomwin Lannister Fri Mar 15, 2013 5:13 pm

Yeah but he put Martinez in there due to his own individual preference.

If you want to go for chemistry then Bonucci could stay in for Dante.

The most fair line-up I could make is:

----------------------Buffon--------------------
Lahm----Barz-------Dante------Chiellini----Alaba
-------------Vidal-----Pirlo----Marchisio-----------
------------------------------------Ribery----------
--------------------Gomez---------------------------

a 6/5 Juve - Bayern split.

I don't see why any of our three CM's should move, I'd put Kroos in if there was an attacking mid. Dante/Bonucci is your own preference, I am making it as neutral as possible.

Ribery could play in a free role behind Gomez, our strikers don't get a look in.

by Great Leader Sprucenuce Fri Mar 15, 2013 5:16 pm

Both teams strikers are not very good Laughing

0-0 inbound :bow:

by Arquitecto Fri Mar 15, 2013 5:17 pm

I'd also like to add that in my line-up that Buffon would be a playmaking GK supporting the Deep Lying Sweeper Leo Bonnuci.

Alaba would act sort of as a Box to box Leftback, Pirlo as a Deep lying Attacking midfielder. Licht would be a wing to wing Wing back.

Javi? He is a box to box playmaker so he would be our Boxista.

Marchisio would be a box to box #10 while Mueller a wide false 9 and Gomez the creative poacher.

by VivaStPauli Fri Mar 15, 2013 5:17 pm

If you counter-attack, Gomez is a winner, if you want to dominate possession, you take Mandzukic, or play a false 9, maybe Müller. Difficult, but also a bit besides the point.

And Arq, I understand your point, but I'm not entirely convinced I need Martinez' superior attributes with Pirlo and Piggy already on the pitch.

by VivaStPauli Fri Mar 15, 2013 5:18 pm

Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:Both teams strikers are not very good

0-0 inbound

by Tomwin Lannister Fri Mar 15, 2013 5:19 pm

Arquitecto wrote:I'd also like to add that in my line-up that Buffon would be a playmaking GK supporting the Deep Lying Sweeper Leo Bonnuci.

Alaba would act sort of as a Box to box Leftback, Pirlo as a Deep lying Attacking midfielder. Licht would be a wing to wing Wing back.

Javi? He is a box to box playmaker so he would be our Boxista.

Marchisio would be a box to box #10 while Mueller a wide false 9 and Gomez the creative poacher.

Long live the football manager generation! :bow:

I'd play Licht as a Centre defensive wing-fielder but each to his own.

by S Fri Mar 15, 2013 5:20 pm

4-2-3-1

Buffon

Lichtsteiner-Barzagli-Chiellini-Alaba

Schweinsteiger-Vidal

Mueller-Kroos-Ribery

Mandzukic

3-5-2

Buffon

Barzagli-Dante-Chiellini

Lahm-Vidal-Pirlo-Marchisio-Alaba

Mueller-Mandzukic

Pirlo is better off in a 3 man midfield while Schweinsteiger is better suited to a 2 man midfield system.IMO

by Arquitecto Fri Mar 15, 2013 5:27 pm

VivaStPauli wrote:If you counter-attack, Gomez is a winner, if you want to dominate possession, you take Mandzukic, or play a false 9, maybe Müller. Difficult, but also a bit besides the point.

And Arq, I understand your point, but I'm not entirely convinced I need Martinez' superior attributes with Pirlo and Piggy already on the pitch.

If we go by your line-up which I assume would include Pirlo-Piggy in a 4-3-3, then there would be the question of balance. We have seen that Schweinsteiger is at his worst when he is forced to abandon much of his attacking freedom in continually tracking back to provide defensive cover (to which he also excels at), as by then you would need one static reference point. That reference point would be Javi who can compliment Pirlo and hold the midfield extraordinarily, thus releasing Schweinsteiger to ply his box to box trade at his best. Javi does the same for Schweinsteiger this season in the 4-2-3-1 as Javi had to sacrifice his attacking tendencies, but Jupp has redeveloped his role similar to Busquets of Barca, which is working brilliantly. The question also is the chemistry between Javi and Schweinsteiger if you put them together with Pirlo, which is undeniably good.

by Zealous Fri Mar 15, 2013 5:33 pm

Conte thinks Juve are underdogs hmm

by Tomwin Lannister Fri Mar 15, 2013 5:35 pm

I see no underdog, if you follow Conte he loves to sell us short to keep the players grounded.

Literally, any big game he will come out and say we're not favourites. He was selling Celtic as something approaching favourites for both legs Laughing

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