Bayern Munich vs Juventus

Gil wrote:Bayern are massively overrated on here.

United or Barca would handle them.

Finally a decent poster here.

Also:

futbol wrote:

Gil wrote:Bayern are massively overrated on here.

United or Barca would handle them.

Finally a decent poster here.

Also:

conte

Arquitecto wrote:
No, 4231 and 433 aren't excuses? Why? Well it is the sole reason why certain systematic formations work for a team, work vs another team or just work for your own team as a whole. It doesn't even come down to "good enough" or "not good enough" as such elementary analysis is just plain silly. The 4-3-3 wasn't a brainfart as it was a risk to which simply did not work, not because we aren't "good enough". Is the manager to blame? Yes but so are Niang and El Shaarawy, both who had good enough chances to render this discussion obsolete. It is simple logic, either you use what works v a certain team and extrapolate based on incidental circumstances or you resort back to plan A. A risk was made, it didn't pay off. Happens all the time

Yes, i know how tactical schemes work and essential they can be in a given yet. Yet did you produce the same successful strategy to beat win the tie? no you didnt. I would argue that your coach decided to an one more midfielder, playing away for a more cautious approach and it blew up in your face. where was the adjustment, where were the players reacting to the onslaught? they did nothing, stood there, and took it all in. you can talk tactics as much as you want but reality of the pitch showed me a team that got crushed. I think we emphasize too much on formation at times but at the end of the day it doesnt matter because it's the personnel and the leadership that matters. you can play a 433, 4231, 361 vs barca and what not, and beat them if you are good enough. there are no perfect systems and even if you argue that there is that one system that best utilizes the gifts of your players, i will tell you that it's still a collective failing.

Why didn't he play the system? Ask the Juve fans who have been questioning this frustrating facet of Conte for 2 years now. Its not just that this rehashed pre-tactic of his doesn't work against Bayern, it hasn't work against Lazio, Napoli, Catania, Nordsjaelland and some provincial sides. Coincidental? No, more of a deviational divergence to which was a naive move by Conte who even stated that he would not focus on studying Bayern, but his own discipline. That stupendous decision did not work. All veteran Juve watchers who aren't sullen in their misery have pointed this out to the point of sounding like a broken record. The crazy Italian media who drove Mourinho nuts with these complex tactical questions are asking the same of Conte on his naive decision to go with a gameplan which has cost him points in all competitions so far. The premise was in not conceding a goal whilst "door-bolting" Bayern along with capitalizing on any given chances. Other questions remain on why he broke up MVP, why the wingbacks were withdrawn and why Quags-Matri was the partnership when it is a suicide move.

i understand you analysis, from you are saying it's all on Conte? my point is simply to say that Juventus means coach and players alike because the coach draw the tactics and the players execute them. So understand that i am talking about the whole Juventus. Surely, we can agree that Juventus have the potential to do a lot better, and i can understand your frustration, yet, being champions also means repeating your most successful way of playing over and over against all opponent and moving forward in tourneys right? So on that criteria, Juventus are currently lacking. Also, it's the first time we see Juventus in this situation in avery long time so it's not as if they have shown better against a side of Bayern level for me to say that it's a one off.

and even then, Football is so fickle that Juventus can still manage to move forward. I was expecting juve negative tactics to get the better of bayern but it looks like i overestimated Juventus a bit.

juventus101 wrote:Im talking about you, Rossonero.

Man o man, i remember years ago ghere used to actually be a mutual respect between Milan and Juve and we both just hated Inter. Where have all the decdnt Milan fans gone?

no respect for juve! i hate your team with a passion!

FORZA BAYERN MUNICH!

The Franchise wrote:Indeed.

I dont want to be too disrespectful of Matri and Quag, but my feeling was it was their quality rather than the occassion that got to them.

It just seemed akward, Matri seemingly making a poor touch every second time and him not having explosive pace to get away from anyone. Quag looked sort of lost, dropped deep but couldnt make a good pass but too far from goal to shoot.

Agree about that spell of play after the goal and before the injury. Robben as you said isnt very effective, but his speed alone, it took 2 people to actually stop him which only forced Juve further back in the hope of protecting.

The goal really set Juve back and I feel like we didnt see the real Juve at all, they are far more smart and talented than they showed.

Agree about the possible selection, its a shame the game is away from them at 2-0..meaning, they really have to do something. At 2-1 they could of waited and stolen a goal regardless of how the game is panning out. But 2-0 down you imagine they actually have to put on a commanding performance which entails risk, especially if you consider they might have to make selection decisions in at least 2 positions (striker and rightback).

It's probably not too unfair a judgement of the strikeforce, though I do personally believe that Quagliarella is capable of providing a threat, however this is primarily due to his intelligent movement, which requires a strong link-up with not only his strike partner but also Marchisio whose running of the channels is so important. I can't think of a single instance when Marchisio found himself with the ball in an offensive position in Bayern's half throughout the match; even after they switched to the makeshift 4-4-2 we mostly saw Chiellini find more time on the ball, something that Bayern would have been quite happy to see happen relative to the likes of Pirlo.

De Ceglie has had a constant struggle with injuries throughout his career, however he was also hounded by the fanbase a few months back for a series of poor performances, however I have always thought that he was a player who deserved to be persevered with. I defended Bonucci back in the days when some Juventus fans wanted him sold and in the same way, I think that De Ceglie needed to be played through difficult periods as he really is the only player who can provide an athletic, balanced option as a left back within the squad. Even Juventus' pursuit of Armero wouldn't have provided a solution to this problem unfortunately. Perhaps if Isla is fit enough to play at RB then Caceres can deputise on the left as he has done for Uruguay in the past, but again, these are hardly ideal situations. A club of Juventus' stature should not be caught between such half measures.

Also on a final note, I thought the referee was absolutely insane. Brutal tackles from Vidal and Ribery were waved on as if they barely made contact, whilst Lichsteiner and Gustavo were given yellow cards for simulation when in both instances, neither player could have avoided the contact that brought them down. Just because it wasn't a penalty doesn't mean that Lichsteiner dived, he had no way to avoid Dante and was involved in a legitimate collision, whilst Gustavo was caught in a tangle of legs. Utterly bizarre officiating.