Liverpool??

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Post by McAgger Sun Sep 16, 2012 9:33 pm

Lex wrote:
Mr_Puyol wrote:Liverpool has there own TV show on FOX,I don't see Manu,Barca,Madrid with a TVshow. Cool
Liverpool?? - Page 3 MUTV

Razz

I'm not sure if you're joking hmm but that's their official channel, not a TV show.
Liverpool?? - Page 3 Realmadrid-TV

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We're the only ones with a TV show :bow: It's airing tonight in the US, so everyone tune in.

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Post by white_star Sun Sep 16, 2012 11:16 pm

mr-r34 wrote:
white_star wrote:, sterling way too young and inexperienced.


This is not trolling this is a concern on a legendary team.

Man if i was you i would of just said you were trolling, at least then you wouldn't look like a spaz.

Whatever you say I am legit concerned for liverpool and want to see the back amongst the top 4. Seems like every time Somone critizises a team on gl the supporters get sand in their vagina. This thread sole purpose is for discussing.
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Post by Le Samourai Sun Sep 16, 2012 11:37 pm

[quote="donttreadonred"]

Personally, I think BR wants to play a female triangle in midfield ( \/ ), as opposed to a male triangle ( /\ ). This would leave one defensive midfielder to cover the center-backs and recycle the ball. This leaves two more box-to-box CM positions (sometimes with one staying on the edge of the middle third with the other having more license to go forward). With that framework in mind let’s look at the players currently slotting in.

I think with Lucas handles the defensive side of things by himself and is a perfectly capable distributor from deep. Here;s the problem, who is going to be the other one? Sahin or Allen...because it can't be both.

First of all, Allen certainly isn't our first choice "DM". Lucas is tailor-made for the holding role, but he’s been horribly unlucky with his recent injury so soon after his return from his previous one. In Lucas’s absence, Allen really is not capable of replacing him in all aspects. He's playing as a deep-lying, play-maker. It’s not that he’s inept at tackling, but he's simply too small to play effectively as a pure holding player. He's certainly capable of providing the stability and control in attack, but the defensive cover is definitely below the level Lucas could provide. Right now, we don't really have a viable DM.

Henderson has become something of a non-factor in recent matches. I think we will definitely see more of him over the next 2 weeks due to the frequency of matches. However, I honestly don’t know where he will feature. Daglish famously, and stubbornly, played him on the right last season. Barring a few run-outs at CM in preseason matches, BR has played him as one of the wide attackers (opposite of Pacheco or Downing against Hearts…?). Due to this lack of consistency of position and his flat lack of matches, it’s hard to see just how he will feature in Rodgers’s plans. Considering there were rumors of an attempted swap for Dempsey in the transfer window, it could be another case of a player that has approximately 3 ½ months to convince Rodgers of his ability to contribute to this team.

Henderson , I think is a real option as CM. He has alot of the qualities neccesary to fit on the right hand side of what you termed a male V (/\). He fits that role as well as anyone for me, better than Shelvey, better than Allen and within Rodgers style better than Gerrard. The person I see as his most potent competition is Suso (and he is yet to debut).

Shelvey looks like he could be a perfect successor for one of the more attacking roles in midfield. He’s shown a willingness and capability to press from midfield and get forward to support the attack. (Does anyone else remember his near winner against Man City?) Granted, he’s been short of the last 10% of quality needed to become a real threat in every match, but who hasn’t been lacking in this quality on the LFC squad? Not yet an everyday player, but definitely a good option to have in the matchday squad.

I agree with this to an extent, I feel in a 4-2-3-1 Gerrard fills this role best, and depending largely on whether Allen or Sahin plays, Jonjo or Hendo fit the attacking CM role of the 4-3-3 best.

Hendo with Sahin
Jonjo with Allen.

I will say this I'm a huge fan of his, I hardly think he's a 10 but he will get some time there should Gerrard be absent for an extended period of time.


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Post by Nishankly Sun Sep 16, 2012 11:42 pm

Nothing much to discuss tbh.

Currently midtable.
Work in Progress.
See how this season goes.

That's all im doing this year. BR is going to be here for a minimum 2 years so we wait and see if gets his plans right.

People are pissing their pants about Liverpool playing something that they cant understand. Obviously BR is implementing a new style. Its not gonna be implemented in a few games. Calm down and comment after January.
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Post by Arquitecto Mon Sep 17, 2012 3:34 am

alexjanosik wrote:I dont claim fully to know what type of system BR is trying to implement.
But I assume its a possession based style of play.
Based on that assumption I dont agree with the sentiments expressed by the Liverpool fans that the team is adpating well to the system.
I see a few glaring problems.For example,I only saw the first half yesterday but at one point Sunderland had 54 % possession.Thats jsut not good enough for a home game.And its not like Sunderland were pressing like crazy.
I see a few problems.Firstly the pressing is just not good enough.Both the forward line and the midfield need to press better off the ball.Secondly if they plan to have 60% plus possession every game the defensive line needs to be a lot higher than it is now.Its too deep now.
The midfield is also a problem.Allen is just not good enough to be a DM/ hloding player.Positioning is not too great and gets bypassed too easily. Need a better DM/holding player.I assume that player is Lucas.Also Allen's passing stats dont impress me.For me he passes sometimes just for the sake of passing.No real purpose in his passing.
Another problem in midfield is Gerrard.he is just not suited for the possession game.tries too many Hollywood passes.Doesnt have the intelligence,awareness and patience to play a possession game.they just wont be able to play a possession game with Gerrard in midfield.
On the formation,its interesting that BR shifted to 4-2-3-1 with Shelvey as the AM.I assume that was to provide more of a goal threat.Shelvey has a good shot and can drive into the box.provides a goal threat.But he messed up for me with the formation and the personnel.Allen and Gerrard are just not a good or suitable pivot.For a successful good pivot,you need a DLP/holding midfielder and an energetic box to box runner.Allen and Gerrard dont provide those qualities.If BR wanted to play 4-2-3-1,then it should have been Sahin and Shelvey in the pivot and gerrad as the 10.If Sahin was unavailable then Allen and Shelvey as the pivot and Gerrard as the 10.
So overall I dont agree that the players are adjusting well to the system and that the system is successfully being embedded.i see a few glaring problems.


Alex I'm afraid I will have to correct you on just a few things. For the same reasons you praise Busquets (and rightly so) you don't praise Allen. It must be pointed out this was not Allen's best game as the sheer physicality of Sunderland's play subdued him along with poor positioning from Shelvey and Gerrard. Yet there is a reason he was the player of the month given his above 96% passing accuracy for us as you must also see his games against Arsenal and City in particular to see why there is so much praise for his ability. I don't see how there is little purpose in his passing considering he opens our play magnificently and recycles possession well. Point being he never was a DM and was left short by the absence of Lucas where he is destined to partner up with and provide a pivot. Gerrard was erratic yet was our best midfielder as he provided something positive in attack with his surging passes to provide width on both flanks and was dangerous in the box. My personal hitch is he is having trouble coming out of the Hodgson mindset after his time for England.

Aside from that its too harsh criticising Liverpool after the Sunderland match since they tend to bring the worst out in us and especially in the Stadium of Light. See City for example and the first half vs Arsenal. It shows what BR's team is capable of as we have exceeded expectation in our general play considering its a new system for majority of our players bar Borini, Sahin and Allen.
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Post by Highburied Mon Sep 17, 2012 7:47 am

You can pass all day but every pass of a midfielder should have a purpose.

Great midfielders control the tempo of the game depending on the result.

Liverpool were 1-0 down, Joe Allen didnt even look forward.

I agree with Alex on some points.

About Liverpool...

They seem to have a f**cked up hierarchy.

In recent years, they'v spent more money than majority but still looking average.

Id say, they should be patient with BR and slowly build a squad.

They have some decent young players though. Why not use them??

Sterling and Shelvey are future players imo.

Then, Kelly is much better than Johnson (at fault for two goals conceded against Arsenal).

Midfield is packed.

All they need is another winger and a good striker.





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Post by Nishankly Mon Sep 17, 2012 9:08 am

All of us Liverpool fans are patient.
You guys are the ones creating the threads. Laughing
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Post by Highburied Mon Sep 17, 2012 9:14 am

Nishank wrote:All of us Liverpool fans are patient.
You guys are the ones creating the threads. Laughing

Liverpool management, I meant.

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Post by McAgger Mon Sep 17, 2012 9:17 am

Nishank wrote:All of us Liverpool fans are patient.
You guys are the ones creating the threads. Laughing

Exactly Laughing this threads would have made sense if we still had Kenny in charge or hired someone (i.e. Rafa, Van Gaal) for instant success and we were failing. But with the appointment of BR, it was clear that our management wanted to build for the future. We'll be learning our trade in Rodgers' system for the next 2/3 years so neutral fans should learn to see us in mediocrity for that period.

One thing I know for sure is that we will be back to the top in the future, and one once we do, we'll be staying there for a long time Thumbs up
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Post by Nishankly Mon Sep 17, 2012 9:19 am

highburied wrote:
Nishank wrote:All of us Liverpool fans are patient.
You guys are the ones creating the threads. Laughing

Liverpool management, I meant.


The money spent with Kenny was very rash. I agree.
But i think the money spent with BR has been good.

We needed a deep lying playmaker. Allen.
Needed a striker. Borini
Needed a winger. Promoted Sterling and bought Assaidi.

There have been some question marks like the loan of Carroll, But its the right direction. Ill start asking questions about the team only at the end of January.

Management hasnt been as good, But the people who caused it were sacked.
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Post by McAgger Mon Sep 17, 2012 9:20 am

highburied wrote:
Nishank wrote:All of us Liverpool fans are patient.
You guys are the ones creating the threads. Laughing

Liverpool management, I meant.


Rodgers will not be sacked under any circumstances. He's here to stay for the long haul. Mediocrity is expected for the near future.
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Post by Highburied Mon Sep 17, 2012 9:32 am

Messiah "Aggerswagger" wrote:
highburied wrote:
Nishank wrote:All of us Liverpool fans are patient.
You guys are the ones creating the threads. Laughing

Liverpool management, I meant.


Rodgers will not be sacked under any circumstances. He's here to stay for the long haul. Mediocrity is expected for the near future.

I voted Brendan Rodgers as the first manager to be sacked this season. hmm
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Post by Nishankly Mon Sep 17, 2012 9:34 am

highburied wrote:
Messiah "Aggerswagger" wrote:
highburied wrote:
Nishank wrote:All of us Liverpool fans are patient.
You guys are the ones creating the threads. Laughing

Liverpool management, I meant.


Rodgers will not be sacked under any circumstances. He's here to stay for the long haul. Mediocrity is expected for the near future.

I voted Brendan Rodgers as the first manager to be sacked this season. hmm

Difficult, That COULD be the case only if Liverpool will get relegated.
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Post by McAgger Mon Sep 17, 2012 9:50 am

Nishank wrote:
highburied wrote:
Messiah "Aggerswagger" wrote:
highburied wrote:
Nishank wrote:All of us Liverpool fans are patient.
You guys are the ones creating the threads. Laughing

Liverpool management, I meant.


Rodgers will not be sacked under any circumstances. He's here to stay for the long haul. Mediocrity is expected for the near future.

I voted Brendan Rodgers as the first manager to be sacked this season. hmm

Difficult, That COULD be the case only if Liverpool will get relegated.

This. As long as we are midtable and progressing BR will not be sacked. Obviously if we get relegated or barely avoid relegation then there could be some questions about his future, which seems very unlikely with the players we have.
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Post by Onyx Mon Sep 17, 2012 11:35 am

Liverpool TV. :bow:

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Post by Highburied Mon Sep 17, 2012 2:00 pm

Nishank wrote:
highburied wrote:
Messiah "Aggerswagger" wrote:
highburied wrote:
Nishank wrote:All of us Liverpool fans are patient.
You guys are the ones creating the threads. Laughing

Liverpool management, I meant.


Rodgers will not be sacked under any circumstances. He's here to stay for the long haul. Mediocrity is expected for the near future.

I voted Brendan Rodgers as the first manager to be sacked this season. hmm

Difficult, That COULD be the case only if Liverpool will get relegated.

Only delusional people would see Liverpool in relegation.

I always criticize Liverpool for not being able to reach those champions standards that always had.

Lets see how Brandon does and hopefully he gets support from above.

Arsenal FC and Man Utd were lucky to have Wenger and SAF respectively, otherwise we could easily end up like Liverpool.

A new manager, some terrible signings, missing out CL = Liverpool FC

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Post by TheRedStag Mon Sep 17, 2012 6:01 pm

We're four games in, no problem as far as I'm concerned.

This season is all about the players learning the system and learning to be patient with it.

We are a long way from implementing it properly still. It could take at least until the new year. I think we will see a steady improvement in the way we adapt to Brendan's system.

Our start to the season hasn't been great, fair enough. Against West Brom we were dominating until Zera blasted that goal in and then we panicked and fell apart. We probably deserved all 3 points against City. We we poor against Arsenal and Saturday we conceded first again and in the end a draw was probably fair.

I'm not worried. Actually I'm feeling very positive about the manager and the future. I'm gonna be patient because I believe in the long term Brendan is going to have us playing great stuff and the results will take care of themselves. Early days.
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Post by donttreadonred Tue Sep 18, 2012 1:30 am

Woah!... Four games guys... Four. Even the most pessimistic fan should realize that the table is still sorting itself out. Let's look at who we've played.
- West Brom - Let's face it. They've looked good at times this season. Against us, they got an incredible goal early and we were on the back foot from then on.
- Man City - Should've won this one on the performance, but stupid mistakes undid us.
- Arsenal - One of the poorer performances so far, but Cazorla, Diaby (had a great game that day) and Podolski finally looked to be making good for the Gunners. When everything is said and done, I believe Arsenal will be comfortably top four this season, even without RVP. If Giroud ever starts scoring, they will be a VERY good team.
- Sunderland - I was disappointed not to take full points from this game, but Steven Fletcher has been immense so far this season. TBH, I've wanted him at Liverpool for the last two transfer windows. Thought he could've solved some problems in January last season, and would've added some proven quality to the attack. On average, he's a good mid-table striker. Right now, he's scoring when he wants (obvious hyperbole, but his form has been very good). He managed to score in practically Sunderland's only real chance of the match.

So, the schedule has been less than kind, and due to form/settling of the new style/players we've not been able to take the points from the matches we "should" have. However reminiscent of last season's late dip in form, this remains a completely different situation. To be honest, I've accepted that we are going to drop a fair amount of points in this early season. What worries me is all of the negative press I know we're going to receive.
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Post by Arsenalfaithfull Tue Sep 18, 2012 6:39 am

What you have are American owners/management with experience building teams (title winning red socks... after 8 decades if im not mistaken), that will run the club like robots. This means, they will be methodical with how they choose to clean up the mess.
Its already started as well. They see that Liverpool is one of the biggest brand in the sporting world, so turning LFC into a self sufficient, cash cow isnt something that will take YEARS achieve (look at arsenal). Wont be surprised if you guys get all sorts of endorsement deals from American tv/ companies. Anything that will bring the value of the club higher than before. 3-4 years without playing in the CL and you guys are still in the top 10 for the most valueable clubs in the world (i just laugh when people try put you in the same catagory as Forest and Leeds :facepalm: )
However, do not expect money or financial rescue from these guys. And they will definately not be bullied by the fans to take rash actions. You guys will evolve/ improve at a steady pace. While that may seem like nothing to look forward to.... it sure as hell beats the model that LFC has been runnin up untill now (paper masheying over the cracks)
Brendan Rodgers is here to stay, and he will do wonders for the club imo.
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Post by stevieg8 Tue Sep 18, 2012 1:17 pm

Arsenalfaithfull wrote:What you have are American owners/management with experience building teams (title winning red socks... after 8 decades if im not mistaken), that will run the club like robots. This means, they will be methodical with how they choose to clean up the mess.
Its already started as well. They see that Liverpool is one of the biggest brand in the sporting world, so turning LFC into a self sufficient, cash cow isnt something that will take YEARS achieve (look at arsenal). Wont be surprised if you guys get all sorts of endorsement deals from American tv/ companies. Anything that will bring the value of the club higher than before. 3-4 years without playing in the CL and you guys are still in the top 10 for the most valueable clubs in the world (i just laugh when people try put you in the same catagory as Forest and Leeds :facepalm: )
However, do not expect money or financial rescue from these guys. And they will definately not be bullied by the fans to take rash actions. You guys will evolve/ improve at a steady pace. While that may seem like nothing to look forward to.... it sure as hell beats the model that LFC has been runnin up untill now (paper masheying over the cracks)
Brendan Rodgers is here to stay, and he will do wonders for the club imo.

This is the ideal we're all hoping for. Sadly, "they will definately not be bullied by the fans to take rash actions" has not always been quite factual with them. Carl Crawford, John Lackey, JD Drew and several other signings with the Red Sox during their tenure have clearly been panic signings, and one's that could be expected to fail from before they happened. Similarly, Andy Carroll seems to fall in that vein as well.

FSG has shown in the past that they can build title-winning teams; they spent several years as the shrewdest front office in baseball, making the right decisions at the right time. They've also shown, in a pretty abrupt about-face, the ability to be up there with the incompetent owners many teams see on the failure list. As Liverpool fans, we're all hoping their tenure in football will be more like the former, and hence are hoping they take their time with Rodgers and get it right. If we, as supporters, were kneejerking the way this thread has, we would fully deserve the latter of the two scenarios; instead, we're taking our time, looking at the positives, and waiting for things to take hold.
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Post by alexjanosik Wed Sep 19, 2012 1:57 pm

Arquitecto wrote:
alexjanosik wrote:I dont claim fully to know what type of system BR is trying to implement.
But I assume its a possession based style of play.
Based on that assumption I dont agree with the sentiments expressed by the Liverpool fans that the team is adpating well to the system.
I see a few glaring problems.For example,I only saw the first half yesterday but at one point Sunderland had 54 % possession.Thats jsut not good enough for a home game.And its not like Sunderland were pressing like crazy.
I see a few problems.Firstly the pressing is just not good enough.Both the forward line and the midfield need to press better off the ball.Secondly if they plan to have 60% plus possession every game the defensive line needs to be a lot higher than it is now.Its too deep now.
The midfield is also a problem.Allen is just not good enough to be a DM/ hloding player.Positioning is not too great and gets bypassed too easily. Need a better DM/holding player.I assume that player is Lucas.Also Allen's passing stats dont impress me.For me he passes sometimes just for the sake of passing.No real purpose in his passing.
Another problem in midfield is Gerrard.he is just not suited for the possession game.tries too many Hollywood passes.Doesnt have the intelligence,awareness and patience to play a possession game.they just wont be able to play a possession game with Gerrard in midfield.
On the formation,its interesting that BR shifted to 4-2-3-1 with Shelvey as the AM.I assume that was to provide more of a goal threat.Shelvey has a good shot and can drive into the box.provides a goal threat.But he messed up for me with the formation and the personnel.Allen and Gerrard are just not a good or suitable pivot.For a successful good pivot,you need a DLP/holding midfielder and an energetic box to box runner.Allen and Gerrard dont provide those qualities.If BR wanted to play 4-2-3-1,then it should have been Sahin and Shelvey in the pivot and gerrad as the 10.If Sahin was unavailable then Allen and Shelvey as the pivot and Gerrard as the 10.
So overall I dont agree that the players are adjusting well to the system and that the system is successfully being embedded.i see a few glaring problems.


Alex I'm afraid I will have to correct you on just a few things. For the same reasons you praise Busquets (and rightly so) you don't praise Allen. It must be pointed out this was not Allen's best game as the sheer physicality of Sunderland's play subdued him along with poor positioning from Shelvey and Gerrard. Yet there is a reason he was the player of the month given his above 96% passing accuracy for us as you must also see his games against Arsenal and City in particular to see why there is so much praise for his ability. I don't see how there is little purpose in his passing considering he opens our play magnificently and recycles possession well. Point being he never was a DM and was left short by the absence of Lucas where he is destined to partner up with and provide a pivot. Gerrard was erratic yet was our best midfielder as he provided something positive in attack with his surging passes to provide width on both flanks and was dangerous in the box. My personal hitch is he is having trouble coming out of the Hodgson mindset after his time for England.

Aside from that its too harsh criticising Liverpool after the Sunderland match since they tend to bring the worst out in us and especially in the Stadium of Light. See City for example and the first half vs Arsenal. It shows what BR's team is capable of as we have exceeded expectation in our general play considering its a new system for majority of our players bar Borini, Sahin and Allen.

You said it yourself.Busquets is a DM but Allen is not.
Even being a DM Busquets is far more purposeful with his passing.And he releases the ball very quickly,mostly first touch.Also a lot of his passes are forward to the 2 midfielders or to the forwards.By contrast Allen takes a lot more time on the ball and his passes are a lot more laeral.Too often he passes back to the CB and FB.Now you may say that he lacks options upfront which is true to an extent.Still cant help but feel that his passing lacks purpose.He is playing in a deep role.He is not a DM nor is he a deep lying playmaker.So what the hell is he doing there?Just dont get it.

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Post by RedOranje Thu Sep 20, 2012 3:07 am

tl;dr: I've not actually paid any serious attention to Liverpool and have only seen a few minutes here and there in a game or two, as well as checked the statistics randomly early on in the latest match. Therefore, I obviously have the full and complete knowledge necessary to judge and comment on the club's current situation and progression. Do not question me, for I know better than you could ever hope to.
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Post by McAgger Thu Sep 20, 2012 3:08 am

Laughing Red :bow:
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