#1 - Manuel Neuer

So, I updated the videos, and pics a bit. The videos are basically the same ones as in the multimedia section, but it can't hurt to have them in two places.

Remember clowns were saying Iker freakign Casillas and GG Buffon is better than this guy ?

LMAOOOOO

An absolute GOAT. Forget his saves and all, he just looks like such a boss and it gives defenders so much assurance. If I were Messi, I'd give the golden ball I got awarded straight to Neuer.

i am genuinely jealous Bayern have such a monster. I think he has a lot of chances to win the next golden ball, good luck CR

Natalie Portman wrote:Remember clowns were saying Iker freakign Casillas and GG Buffon is better than this guy ?

LMAOOOOO

An absolute GOAT. Forget his saves and all, he just looks like such a boss and it gives defenders so much assurance. If I were Messi, I'd give the golden ball I got awarded straight to Neuer.

This cannot be overstated, the confidence he gives the defence is incredible.

Best GK in the world, no doubt.

He is the best goalkeeper in the world at the moment, I don't think anyone in their right mind could deny this. I have been a Casillas and Buffon admirer, but they are way past their sell date now. He is also a big guy like Buffon, and they tend to last longer than smaller GKs who rely more on speed and reaction like Casillas. Germany will have a world best GK for a decade, barring injury.

Kick wrote:Best GK in the world, no doubt.

Courtois disagrees

I just saw his girlfriend.

Neuer is twice as tall

Neuer is more complete than Iker ever was. Already passed him in all time greats list for me with this World Cup.

Natalie Portman wrote:Remember clowns were saying Iker freakign Casillas and GG Buffon is better than this guy ?

LMAOOOOO

An absolute GOAT. Forget his saves and all, he just looks like such a boss and it gives defenders so much assurance. If I were Messi, I'd give the golden ball I got awarded straight to Neuer.

Iker maybe given his iffy year yet it is utterly callous to scoff at even the current Buffon in favour of Neuer who just this season was ridiculed for his errors and performances while a World Cup seemingly erases all of that. Neuer is Neuer yet this sort of hindsight does not qualify Neuer in such a platform to which he is untouchable, especially given the performances of Thibaut Courtois.

Who ridiculed Neuer, and for what errors?

Hapless_Hans wrote:Who ridiculed Neuer, and for what errors?

I mean looking at the previous page will show you the emotional polarities of GL in which opinions can turn like a Okinawa tide. My opinion? We should not look at Neuer's mistakes yet look at all he has done right. Yet it would be completely unfair to place him as the best goalkeeper in the world without a doubt considering many a glory have performed in harsher conditions and more circumstance.

Well if there ever is a moment in time when you can say Neuer is the best GK in the world without a doubt, I'd say it is today lol.

Other than that I'm not obsessed with these definitive 1st, 2nd.. rankings.
For me personally, Neuer is the best player in the world, better than Messi, but I couldn't care less whether you place him above or beside Courtois, or in a group with other top goalkeepers.

When you're trying to tell me another GK, like Courtois, is BETTER than Neuer though I'd need to hear some meaningful arguments for that.

Also, I don't recall any Neuer error of consequence this season. He was fantastic throughout.

He's the best at the moment. But still, I haven't seen him perform at prime Iker level, aka 2006-11.

Just going to summarise my points since I am not interested I a debate.

-Calling Neuer the best player in the world is just odd given his position, and quite frankly; tremendously overrating him.

-Never said Courtous is BETTER. Read again.

-The impact Courtois has for his team and where he takes/took them compared to Neuer is just one point in stating that Neuer is not currently untouchable at all. Though saying Neuer is the best isn't far off.

-Errors are one thing, being in positions to which a goalkeeper could have done much better for a goal is another, to which I saw numerous times from him in the Bundesliga and especially the Champions League. Then again, it is callous to just focus on his
Mistakes.

-The Neuer I remember for Schalke had far more impact for his team directly and was more impressive than the Neuer I've seen for Bayern. Not that that means he hasn't performed well as the Schalke-Bayern opinion comes down merely to.. Well just opinion.

Well, as he is currently probably the completest goialie around, I think one can pretty safely say he's currently the top of the crop. After all, he's not only great on the line, fantastic in his positioning, commanding in the box, has amazing reflexes and moreover has the courage and abilities to double as sweeper, too. He did save the German NT several times during the World Cup and for Bayern he also made numerous crucial saves.

so if not Neuer nor Courtois, who then?

as for the Schalke-Bayern comparison, that just is meaningless. At Schalke he had more to do, according to your logic a goalkeeper becomes automatically worse the better the team is he plays in.

Arquitescu wrote:

-Calling Neuer the best player in the world is just odd given his position, and quite frankly; tremendously overrating him.

Why is it odd? Because a goalkeeper by definition cannot be considered the best player in the world the way other players can?
That doesn't make sense, and that's exactly why I like to say it at any given moment.
Because there's no way to prove otherwise lol.

rwo power wrote:Well, as he is currently probably the completest goialie around, I think one can pretty safely say he's currently the top of the crop. After all, he's not only great on the line, fantastic in his positioning, commanding in the box, has amazing reflexes and moreover has the courage and abilities to double as sweeper, too. He did save the German NT several times during the World Cup and for Bayern he also made numerous crucial saves.

This post would have been apt if I was denying Neuer's ability, to which I am not so I do not see how it is relevant. As for completeness, Buffon and Neuer stand hand in hand in that regard as the rest have a lot to catch up to in matching them for the attribute.


@Hans: Not answering your simplified question as that jus strays away from my original premise. Comparisons of that belong in the RB section.

And no, that has nothing to do with my logic at all. Goalkeepers are measured by impact and contribution in designated situations along with the consistency of their craft. The Neuer of Schalke was an absolute wall whereas in Bayern I've seen a more streamlined Neuer who while consistent, hasn't equalled the same raw impact he did in Schalke as a goalkeeper or tangent. Responsibility? What is a goalkeeper without that?  At Schalke he was a single man wall whereas Bayern he is a (consistent) last line of defence.

Why should GL put down the career performances of Iker, Buffon and others in favour of Neuer who is freshly imbedded into the observers minds? It's utterly irresponsible comparison.

This comes down to subjectivity as it is.


EDIT: an it is odd because you call Goalkeepers the best goalkeeper in the world, not footballer. Why? The sheer disparity of difference in roles does not equate. Especially given the intense amount of responsibility an attacker has compared to a goalkeeper.

that's just a convoluted heap of drivel there, Arq. No offense.

-strikers more responsibility than goalkeepers? pls

- Iker and Buffon? I'm talking about now, not the history of the universe.

-"At Schalke he was a single man wall whereas Bayern he is a (consistent) last line of defence." don't see a point in that sentence

Anyway, we can stop it right there as I don't know what we#re arguing about, neither do you probably.

Hapless_Hans wrote:that's just a convoluted heap of drivel there, Arq. No offense.

-strikers more responsibility than goalkeepers? pls

- Iker and Buffon? I'm talking about now, not the history of the universe.

-"At Schalke he was a single man wall whereas Bayern he is a (consistent) last line of defence." don't see a point in that sentence

Anyway, we can stop it right there as I don't know what we#re arguing about, neither do you probably.

-I guess strikers who cover more ground, have to worry about a proactive solution, along with the far more tactical outliers compared to a mostly static goalkeeper who's #1 job is to utilize his reflexes to keep a ball out of the need, just warrants a "pls" as a response? I understand Goalkeeping is highly overlooked and in position of harsh criticism given their mistakes are scrutinized more than other yet there is a reason why goalkeepers are kept on SEPARATE debate than the rest of the 10 men. There just isn't any comparison. How to prove otherwise? Well there isn't really a tangible way unless you actually play football to know the difference of how much an attacker must to compared to a goalkeeper.

-Iker and Buffon, yes. Yet if you stopped thinking that this debate was purely about your points, you would realize I was responding to an earlier post. Which brings me to the point;

-You don't see the point because one addresses the impact and contribution Neuer had for Schalke whereas the other (Bayern) he was only called upon to be...the last line of defence. Essentially what a goalkeeper is. At Schalke he was the defence. At Bayern he had a more bit-part role. If you can find a way to say Neuer has been better at Bayern than he was at Schalke, shoot away.

I don't know what I am arguing about? Calling pot and kettle there. I told you to read my original premise (which you seemingly didn't) to which says Neuer deserves all his praise yet should NOT be raised onto a platform to which he is untouchable or the absolute undisputed best. That would be ignoring the performances of other goalkeepers who (I repeat) have performed in harsher circumstances and conditions. The debate is not revolving around to counter your point, to which continually strayed away from my original point.



The difference is? I called this subjective rather than stating my opinions as facts. You call Jerome Boateng the best CB in the world (another piece of hyperbole) and I do not agree. That is where it ends for me.

So once GL calms down from the World Cup hype in which certain performances of players previously unknown here (James Rodriguez a prime example) will be hyped to an insurmountable platform, then I'll put a debate. Until then we'll continue to see Iker, Buffon, Kahn, Zoff etc being put down for their glories in favour for Neuer who is fresh in the minds of our fellow posters. You're experienced here enough to know how it works.

Arquitescu wrote:a mostly static goalkeeper who's #1 job is to utilize his reflexes to keep a ball out of the need, just warrants a "pls" as a response?

Well, and that's where Manuel Neuer transcends the "normal" job of a GK as he does not only static refölext stuff, but he actually roams around in his half (!) to do sweeper and CB work and he also iniatites attack by pinpoint throws that can reach the middle line or kicks that are more throughballs to attackers than just outkicks.

Arquitescu wrote:At Schalke he was the defence. At Bayern he had a more bit-part role. If you can find a way to say Neuer has been better at Bayern than he was at Schalke, shoot away.

At Bayern he is GK, sweeper, CB and pass-giver from the backyard.  Bayern's high line wouldn't be possible without an aggressive, proactive GK.

rwo power wrote:

Arquitescu wrote:a mostly static goalkeeper who's #1 job is to utilize his reflexes to keep a ball out of the need, just warrants a "pls" as a response?

Well, and that's where Manuel Neuer transcends the "normal" job of a GK as he does not only static refölext stuff, but he actually roams around in his half (!) to do sweeper and CB work and he also iniatites attack by pinpoint throws that can reach the middle line or kicks that are more throughballs to attackers than just outkicks.

Arquitescu wrote:At Schalke he was the defence. At Bayern he had a more bit-part role. If you can find a way to say Neuer has been better at Bayern than he was at Schalke, shoot away.

At Bayern he is GK, sweeper, CB and pass-giver from the backyard.  Bayern's high line wouldn't be possible without an aggressive, proactive GK.

You're first point is what has Neuer separate from the many goalkeepers these days, too timid to venture outside their zone of safety. Yet RWO, I am not speaking of Neuer in that regard yet of goalkeepers in general, to which have nowhere near completely evolved into Sweeper Keepers as Neuer, Buffon, Sirigu, Valdes etc do these days.

As for your 2nd point, he had the same role minus the high line yet managing a deeper line comes with a completely different set of attributes needed. I guess it shows his versatility in managing both sets of defences, which may be simplifying it, yet from a personal standpoint the Neuer of Schalke was Neuer at his absolute best for me.

Manuel Neuer was voted "Fußballer des Jahres 2014" (football player of the year) in Germany. This ids the second time he won this accolade (the first time was in 2011 when he was still playing for FC Schalke 04).

Runners-up were Marco Reus (Borussia Dortmund) and Thomas Müller (also Bayern München).

Source: http://www.kicker.de/news/fussball/bundesliga/startseite/609459/artikel_manuel-neuer-ist-fussballer-des-jahres.html
List of the FotY in Germany so far: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Footballer_of_the_Year_in_Germany

Manuel Neuer was voted "Fußballer des Jahres 2014" (football player of the year) in Germany. This ids the second time he won this accolade (the first time was in 2011 when he was still playing for FC Schalke 04).

Runners-up were Marco Reus (Borussia Dortmund) and Thomas Müller (also Bayern München).

Source: http://www.kicker.de/news/fussball/bundesliga/startseite/609459/artikel_manuel-neuer-ist-fussballer-des-jahres.html
List of the FotY in Germany so far: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Footballer_of_the_Year_in_Germany

ffs

https://vine.co/v/Og5a9QDvZVj