Wenger is old

Substitute tough with significant/crucial

BTW I think motivational videos should be for fans only. Things like these are not more beneficial than making the players understand their roles on the pitch in big games.

The Franchise wrote:

Lord Hades wrote:in these dark times, like guardiola showed barca players gladiator video to inspire them

wenger shouldve shown arsenal this


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nqzmFgVINVM

or this




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y-6onZNIMfg&feature=related

The video was before the CL final, hardly tough times.

well , before the start of the match, the teams were matched equally well as well.. i added dark times for effect... milan were more motivated

aleumdance wrote: I've definitely lost some respect for certain Arsenal supporters after some of the whining I just read.

Pls don't use lex to Generalize Gooners

we gooners have said we played on worse pitches in the EPL

those talking about the pitch would be singing in Arsene we trust if we o 20 years with no trophy[/quote]

I never said all Gooners and I'm actually friends with quite a few posters from your section. I'm not generalizing, hence me saying...

I've definitely lost some respect for certain Arsenal supporters after some of the whining I just read.

It's not just Lex who has complained about it and I promise not to generalize due of a handful of posters.

Two teams on the same pitch. Fair game. Ibrahimovic and Robinho used the wings to great effect. Just because the formation is narrow, does not mean that we ignore half of the field. This argument is null and void.

Chamberlain starting or anything the result would of been the same, Milan crushed us all over the park. Their movement and passing is why they won, blaming the pitch for a 4-0 loss is cringe worthy. Maybe if 3 of the goals were caused by the ball taking a wicked deflection from divet then it would be valid.

Ironically it's the middle of the pitch where Arsenal failed not the wings. Van Bommel had a great game and as a result so did Milan.

I think Wenger played Rosicky to counter Van Bommel but it seems that didn't work out as planned since Rosicky decided to crap his pants today.

However he could have played Chambo and asked Van Persie to stand in front of Van Bommel when Milan had the ball. The resulting space could have exploited. However Milan's back line had a great collective game (People think it's slow, it isn't.) so there's no guarantee of a Arsenal victory even if the tactics were "right"

Here is what I think:

1) Kudos to Milan fand for not taking cheap shots at Arsenal, although some Arsenal fans are discrediting Milan's effort by blaming the pitch.

2) Milan attacked effectively through the wings, not much intensity there but still the wings where used.

3) The "poor" state of the pitch can be used for not scoring, but I think Arsenal fans should be concerned over conceding four goals, and I don't know how you can blame the pitch for that.

4) Arsenal's home pitch is/was smaller than most European pitches (Cant remember if it was the previous one or the current one) and they took advantage of that in a number of occasions, its the advantage you get when playing home, BTW San Siro is not owned by Milan, and they don't handle the pitch.

5) Wenger came to Milan knowing the state of the pitch, he should have thought about how not to concede if he can't score.

PS, I thought the pitch was just OK.

Yep, I think the slow Milan backline should really be looked at.

Mexes, Thiago Silva, Antonini and Abate.

All 4 are pretty mobile.

Zambrotta and Nesta are no speed demons I concede that though. Though both are positonally ULTRA sound and move ahead of time. Only in 1 v 1 do you see they lack speed and given Milan's team defence how often is that anyway?

The Franchise wrote:Yep, I think the slow Milan backline should really be looked at.

Mexes, Thiago Silva, Antonini and Abate.

All 4 are pretty mobile.

Zambrotta and Nesta are no speed demons I concede that though. Though both are positonally ULTRA sound and move ahead of time. Only in 1 v 1 do you see they lack speed and given Milan's team defence how often is that anyway?

When the other team matches them in possession hardly any examples. They stick together like glue, I've said it once and I'll say it again they are really well drilled.

You can go the Barcelona way and disjoint them by stretching their defence with quick passes. Or allow them to have the ball for spells of the game to open them up at the back, Juve has done this a couple of times this season.

Milan are a legit team, on their day they can beat anyone imo.

baresi wrote:Here is what I think:

1) Kudos to Milan fand for not taking cheap shots at Arsenal, although some Arsenal fans are discrediting Milan's effort by blaming the pitch.

2) Milan attacked effectively through the wings, not much intensity there but still the wings where used.

3) The "poor" state of the pitch can be used for not scoring, but I think Arsenal fans should be concerned over conceding four goals, and I don't know how you can blame the pitch for that.

4) Arsenal's home pitch is/was smaller than most European pitches (Cant remember if it was the previous one or the current one) and they took advantage of that in a number of occasions, its the advantage you get when playing home, BTW San Siro is not owned by Milan, and they don't handle the pitch.

5) Wenger came to Milan knowing the state of the pitch, he should have thought about how not to concede if he can't score.

PS, I thought the pitch was just OK.

Nothing wrong with the pitch, EPL players play on pitches that are basically a puddle of mud of 15 minutes. If the rumour is true that Wenger didn't start Chamberlain because of the pitch then he over thought the influence of it way too much.

Milan defended deep there was not much space to run into behind defenders, any pace we did have was rendered useless. Good tactical decision and Milan players were disciplined defensively and made little to no mistakes. The few problems our wingers did cause was by cutting inside but again Van Bommel and co. were quick to close down on anything of the sort.

Agreed we should of played more defensively and to our main strength which is counter attacking like we did vs Barcelona last year, but we tried to play possession football with a high line.

Milan were clinical tonight and honestly with any tactics we used I think the best we could of done was concede one less goal.

Yep. I was wondering a few years ago if the days of Italians being defensive juggernaut were over. I saw Milan let in foolish goals like vs Man Utd and I thought thats it. Mou's Inter were an exception but the rest are done.

However, Milan really have that same sort of organisation to them that I expect to see historically.

I agree, the direct way of allowing them possession to bring them out is the best way. Even the Barca way wasnt really working so well, our goals were more direct than usual using space in behind following a Milan attack.

The Franchise wrote:Yep. I was wondering a few years ago if the days of Italians being defensive juggernaut were over. I saw Milan let in foolish goals like vs Man Utd and I thought thats it. Mou's Inter were an exception but the rest are done.

However, Milan really have that same sort of organisation to them that I expect to see historically.

I agree, the direct way of allowing them possession to bring them out is the best way. Even the Barca way wasnt really working so well, our goals were more direct than usual using space in behind following a Milan attack.

Agreed. I think Juve from this season is a prime example of dealing with them. Lure them out and play direct balls when they aren't set defensively. We did something similar last season when we played them at home.

Of course he's old

Next

Water is wet

Yep. I would like to avoid them to be honest. They arent quite Inter of 09, but they are close enough and we have enough problems (in attack plus injuries) to cause me concern.

We might of beat them and done it fairly convincingly (as in they didnt get many chances) but we did that to Inter in the group stages and still lost.

The Franchise wrote:Yep. I would like to avoid them to be honest. They arent quite Inter of 09, but they are close enough and we have enough problems (in attack plus injuries) to cause me concern.

We might of beat them and done it fairly convincingly (as in they didnt get many chances) but we did that to Inter in the group stages and still lost.

The knock outs are completely different beast (as a Madrid fan I should know lol)

Different rules apply and some styles which don't really help in the groups end up being effective later on in the competition.

Indeed. Like boxing, styles make games in the 2 leg knockout stages.

Wenger the tactician

Most overrated coach out there.

Adit wrote:Wenger the tactician

Most overrated coach out there.

I don't think most people even rate him that highly, so can't see how he's overrated.

El Chelsea Fuerte wrote:

Adit wrote:Wenger the tactician

Most overrated coach out there.

I don't think most people even rate him that highly, so can't see how he's overrated.

really?

I have seen people saying there is no one better than wenger at tactics..

And people believes wenger will do a better job than mourinho at Real

The misinformed don't rate him. Sensible people with an IQ higher than that of a drumstick know he's an excellent manager

smh, @ the pitch excuse. if the pitch psychologically bothered our players, then we didn't even deserve to win. we shouldn't expect to win anything with that lack of mental toughness.

credit to Milan though. great job.

It wasn't meant to be so easy, at least not for AC Milan. There has perhaps never been such an unpredictably one-sided game in Champions League history, with Arsenal on the receiving end of a humbling few saw coming.

The consensus among experts going into the tie was that Arsenal were favourites. For once, this wasn't premfacery on behalf of the British press, it was actually a pretty understandable prognosis. Milan had been playing abysmally, their extremely fortuitous 2-1 comeback victory at Udinese on Saturday night – having been outplayed for over an hour – ended a sequence of three games without a win, during which they had lost twice and been without 13 first team squad members due to injury or illness.

Arsenal, on the other hand, after losing three Premier League games on the bounce in January appeared to be finding their form again. With 28-goal Robin van Persie on fire, and three wins in four games dragging the Londoners back into contention for the top four and FA Cup, Arsenal were tipped to claim the scalp of an AC Milan team that had won just four of their previous 19 Champions League matches and had been eliminated in the last 16 by EPL opposition at each of their last three attempts.

But the experts could not have been more wrong had they tried.

Fast forward to full time on Wednesday night and Milan had equalled their biggest ever Champions League win, while Arsenal had suffered their worst ever European defeat. And it should have been even more emphatic. Goals from Kevin-Prince Boateng, Robinho (2) and Zlatan Ibrahimovic may have completed a 4-0 thumping at San Siro, but Boateng, Luca Antonini (twice) and substitute Alexandre Pato all squandered gilt-edged chances to add to Arsenal's misery.

Milan were utterly dominant from start to finish in each department. In addition to creating almost a dozen excellent openings, they dictated every area on the pitch. Robin van Persie was horribly isolated in attack - Thiago Silva and Philippe Mexes nullifying the threat of a world class attacker who will surely now pack his bags and leave London in the summer – Mark van Bommel and Antonio Nocerino bossed the middle-of-the-park, while the three goalscorers caused trouble every time they touched the ball – Boateng starting the party with a wondervolley on 15 minutes. Arsenal threatened just twice all game, Van Persie forcing saves from Christian Abbiati at 3-0 and 4-0 respectively – the first of these a brilliant stop from the Dutchman's volley on 65 minutes.

There was no doubting who the individual star of the show was, though. Ibrahimovic has been on the receiving end of vicious criticism in the British press for the best part of a decade, and while his God-given talents clearly haven't been appreciated (this is someone who has won eight league titles in succession for four different clubs in Holland, Italy and Spain, scoring over 250 career goals in the process), it must be accepted that the Swede has rarely produced his best on big European nights (Ibrahimovic had never even scored a Champions League knockout goal until 2010 – even if he did go on to fire a double past Arsenal at the Emirates in the quarter-finals that year).

Ibrahimovic's performance on Wednesday night was without doubt the best of his career in the Champions League, better even than his indomitable display against Real Madrid for Juventus in a 2004-05 second round second leg clash where he was untouchable as the Bianconeri turned around a 1-0 deficit from the Santiago Bernabeu to win 2-1 on aggregate at the Delle Alpi. Everything at San Siro yesterday went through Ibra. The 30-year-old bullied Laurent Koscielny and Thomas Vermaelen, who bounced off the striker time and again as they feebly attempted to wrestle the ball off him. Ibra scored one from a penalty he earned, created two, and could have had at least a further two assists had his team-mates been more clinical. Arsenal goalkeeper Wojciech Szczesny later described Ibrahimovic in the mixed zone as "among the greats" of the game, while even the British press were extremely complimentary.

But as good as the Rossoneri were, they must not get carried away and would certainly do well to ignore Urby Emanuelson's comments that "Milan can now win the Champions League". The seven-time champions are still light years behind overwhelming favourites Barcelona and Real Madrid, and will be hoping once they complete the formality of qualifying for the next round that the two Spanish giants are both paired on the opposite side of the draw en-route to Munich.

For the truth is that this is a dreadful Arsenal team – the worst of Arsene Wenger's 16-year reign. When a declining Wenger outfit beat Milan 2-0 at San Siro four years ago to eliminate the then-holders, they still boasted talents such as Cesc Fabregas, Mathieu Flamini and Emmanuel Adebayor. Only one player who started that night played yesterday – Bacary Sagna. The replacements for Fabregas, Flamini, Samir Nasri and co. are not of the level required to compete at the highest level. If Wenger honestly believed that deadline day signings Mikel Arteta, Per Mertesacker (and Andre Santos) – modest players from mid-table clubs - could help Arsenal challenge for honours then he was deluded. This term, Arsenal's record against Milan and the top seven teams in the Premier League is: P9 W1 D1 L7.

And when your personnel are lacking in quality, Arsene Wenger certainly isn't the manager you want to execute a tactical masterclass in Italy. This writer has made the point numerous times over the years, but will do so once again now: Wenger is a world class scout – the best of the past 20 years - and a world class nurturer and developer of young players. But he is a shockingly naive tactician, and has no understanding of how and when to alter his strategy depending on different scenarios and opposition. He has one style of football, and sticks to it come rain or shine. As the seasons have passed he has become even more stubborn in this philosophy – hence seven years without a trophy.

One could write a thesis on all the things Arsenal did tactically wrong against Milan. When the defence should have held, they pushed up – thus leaving acres of space to exploit in behind. This directly resulted in the first two goals (even if Ibrahimovic was marginally offside in the build-up to Robinho's first), as well as further one-on-one chances for Boateng, Antonini (twice) and Pato. When Arsenal needed to close down and track rampaging full-backs Ignazio Abate and Antonini (when have we ever described Antonini as rampaging?!) they went narrow and offered them all the room in the world down the flanks. When Ibrahimovic and Robinho dropped deep, there was the need to compress the centre of the pitch – especially around the edge of the penalty area – but absolutely no instructions were seemingly delivered in this regard before or during the match.

How Alexandre Song still gets a game for Arsenal is a mystery. A holding midfielder's job is to protect the back four, and fill in the turf between defence and midfield. This is a tactical role – you must have an understanding of space, be disciplined and able to read the play. Ibrahimovic and Robinho wreaked havoc in areas that the Cameroonian should have been occupying. Robinho's second arrived after Song was, first, out of position, and then too slow to react. The ex-Bastia man is incapable of carrying out any of his required functions, and has been throughout his four years as a regular. Wenger is unable to recognise this because he is tactically inept. The Frenchman did at least concede some of his side's shortcomings: "We were shocking. We were out of shape, with no unity defensively or offensively. We made a huge mistake on Milan's first goal."

Wenger also confessed that his side require a miracle if they are to progress to the quarter-finals. No team has ever recovered from a 4-0 first leg away defeat to reach the next round in Europe. All in all it was a memorable night for both Milan, who also maintained their grip on first place in Serie A after Juventus could only draw 0-0 at Parma, and particularly Ibrahimovic, who silenced his critics and scored in his fifth consecutive Champions League game.

Ibrahimovic even ended the evening by going for dinner with tennis No. 1 Novak Djokovic, a passionate Milan fan who had been in attendance at San Siro. But if Ibra and Milan are to be football's number ones then they will have to prove it against Rafa Nadal and Roger Federer-like opposition such as Real Madrid and Barcelona, and not a qualifier like Arsenal.


http://www.goal.com/en/news/1717/editorial/2012/02/16/2909047/ibrahimovic-ac-milan-silence-their-doubters-but-must-not-get

Arq?

All jokes aside, great post jibers (+1)

I enjoyed your writing and hope to see more of it around

THC deceived :vagi:

THC 10 wrote:Arq?

All jokes aside, great post jibers (+1)

I enjoyed your writing and hope to see more of it around

it was carlo i think who wrote this