Re: Messi the captain

by The Franchise Wed Feb 15, 2012 6:09 pm

Well as a forward, I dont think he has to communicate very much. On the pitch, he has the freedom to move pretty much how he likes and people work around him. I am not sure how often he actually needs to communicate.

He is unique in that, because literally every other position requires at level some level of communication.

EP. I dont think anyone other than Puyol does that for us, but that doesnt mean Xavi doent have leadership qualities, he certaintly does. I think that aspect is just one part of leadership, not the entire thing.

I also think, that when Barca are losing, its more tactical than anything else and I imagine its pretty quite in their while Pep is telling them what they arent doing correctly.

I think the big half time speechs is more for lesser teams (or in very unique situations) if im honest.

by EarlyPrototype Wed Feb 15, 2012 6:18 pm

Yeh which is why I see a good leader in Puyol. He pretty much ticks all the boxes for a good leader, but Puyol doesn't play for Argentina lol.

Tactics definitely play a part in fact it probably plays the biggest part, but motivation definitely helps and it's not just half time it could be any time during the game.

by Baraa Wed Feb 15, 2012 7:01 pm

jiopsi wrote:
Sushi Master wrote:One huge attribute Maradona had that Messi does not: leadership.
He's only 24 and there is plenty of time to develop that, now that he's the captain of Argentina.

he sure must develop more important things before :lucas: *coughpenaltiescough*

by VanDeezNuts Wed Feb 15, 2012 8:47 pm

the type of leadership necessary for being a captain of a football team is not something someone learns after the age of 24.

messi is very introverted

he wont all of a sudden be the outspoken type leader that puyol is.

by billionmillion Wed Feb 15, 2012 8:59 pm

Actually if Maradona puyol pele combined shouted they would not win with this crap argentina team. people say messi is bad leader because he won nothing, but first you must have great team system and coach to win something. if you think shouting would change argentina then they would bring a national singer

as you see people applaud him love him admire him, his one word is enough to bring tevez back to the team, even coach does what messi asks. this is leadership..shouting will put pressure on you nothing more

by harhar11 Wed Feb 15, 2012 9:35 pm

Wasn´t zidane exactly the same? From what I remember he was very shy and didnt talk nor shout alot

by billionmillion Wed Feb 15, 2012 10:01 pm

Zidane looks like my elder uncle and he had no hair. so his old appearance can make him a leader. You better talk about r9, he never opened his mouth. actually he didnt need it he was playing for the best NT of his time

by harhar11 Wed Feb 15, 2012 10:23 pm

billionmillion wrote:Zidane looks like my elder uncle and he had no hair. so his old appearance can make him a leader. You better talk about r9, he never opened his mouth. actually he didnt need it he was playing for the best NT of his time

Yeah true lol

by Kev Thu Feb 16, 2012 5:19 am

I'm sorry, but the naive, idealistic belief that "everybody" can be a leader, than everyone can develop into a leader, is absolutely, undoubtedly, unequivocally, wrong.

In my school, leadership is a HUGE thing. From Year 9, we mentor primary school kids. In year 10, we go on many leadership training camps, seminars and days. In these seminars, we do MBTI tests and listen to motivational speakers, leadership instructors and teachers involved in our leadership program speak. In year 11, we take year 7s or year 8s on a 5 to 7 day camp. And when I mean "take", I mean organise the activities, execute the activities, make sure every kid is in bed, cleaned up, on time, debriefed and aok. We make speeches during mealtimes to inspire the kids.

Then, in year 12, we apply for leadership positions, which are limited. In order to become a leader, you must first make a speech in front of everybody affiliated with your field, be voted on by all the students involved in it, be one of the top few candidates in terms of voting, go to half an hour interviews with the coordinator of said field and get approved by the headmaster. It's a big deal.

And during all those years, the people who looked like they were going to be leaders, became leaders, while the people who looked like they weren't, did not. After all this training, nobody's leadership skill improved. Instead, they gained a monumental amount of experience. The shy, introverted kid in the corner just isn't cut to be a leader. No matter how hard he tries, he won't be able to motivate people too well, direct people too well, explain things too well or just be competent as a head. He can set a good example, but hey, who can't if they really tried?

Everybody is different. Some people are good as music, some art, some sport. In this case, some people are just born leaders.

Messi, inherently, is not a leader. No matter how much time he gets, he just won't be able to lead the charge like Obama, Maximus or Puyol.

/thread

by windkick Thu Feb 16, 2012 5:54 am

Not as stupid as Robino the captain

by kiranr Thu Feb 16, 2012 5:59 am

I dont agree entirely with that Kev.

You are right about some people being born to be leaders. No doubt about that. They have that innate ability where they can motivate people and get the best out of them in any situation.

But, i also believe the shy introvert can also be a leader, provided he is leading in a task he is passionate about. A leader, according to me, above everything else, should have excellent knowledge about the task he is leading in. Confidence arises out of that and even the shy extrovert will not have trouble communicating ideas related to the task he is passionate about.

by Lord Hades Thu Feb 16, 2012 6:12 am

being a leader depends on a lot of things, first and foremost the nature of a task

as shy introvert can never be a good leader when the task requires taking charge through verbal dominance, storming stage i.e. for eg group projects

on the other hand some tasks require the person with the best ability to be the leader.. a shy introvert could be the leader if he is the best at performing that task

football is somewhere in the middle, yes you have to be a very good player to be the captain, not necessarily the best though.. but more important than that, you should have the respect of your teammates so that your voice whether its the motivating style you follow or the calm approach should be adhered to be your teammates... and the best thing that inspires respect is performances

having said that, while messi can be a good leader by virtue of his on the pitch performances, he wont ever have the kind of influence in the dressing room that say maradona had

by The Franchise Thu Feb 16, 2012 9:30 am

Kev wrote:I'm sorry, but the naive, idealistic belief that "everybody" can be a leader, than everyone can develop into a leader, is absolutely, undoubtedly, unequivocally, wrong.

In my school, leadership is a HUGE thing. From Year 9, we mentor primary school kids. In year 10, we go on many leadership training camps, seminars and days. In these seminars, we do MBTI tests and listen to motivational speakers, leadership instructors and teachers involved in our leadership program speak. In year 11, we take year 7s or year 8s on a 5 to 7 day camp. And when I mean "take", I mean organise the activities, execute the activities, make sure every kid is in bed, cleaned up, on time, debriefed and aok. We make speeches during mealtimes to inspire the kids.

Then, in year 12, we apply for leadership positions, which are limited. In order to become a leader, you must first make a speech in front of everybody affiliated with your field, be voted on by all the students involved in it, be one of the top few candidates in terms of voting, go to half an hour interviews with the coordinator of said field and get approved by the headmaster. It's a big deal.

And during all those years, the people who looked like they were going to be leaders, became leaders, while the people who looked like they weren't, did not. After all this training, nobody's leadership skill improved. Instead, they gained a monumental amount of experience. The shy, introverted kid in the corner just isn't cut to be a leader. No matter how hard he tries, he won't be able to motivate people too well, direct people too well, explain things too well or just be competent as a head. He can set a good example, but hey, who can't if they really tried?

Everybody is different. Some people are good as music, some art, some sport. In this case, some people are just born leaders.

Messi, inherently, is not a leader. No matter how much time he gets, he just won't be able to lead the charge like Obama, Maximus or Puyol.

/thread

So, your school experience > literally tons of researched literature on the subject?

by Kev Thu Feb 16, 2012 12:44 pm

The Franchise wrote:
Kev wrote:I'm sorry, but the naive, idealistic belief that "everybody" can be a leader, than everyone can develop into a leader, is absolutely, undoubtedly, unequivocally, wrong.

In my school, leadership is a HUGE thing. From Year 9, we mentor primary school kids. In year 10, we go on many leadership training camps, seminars and days. In these seminars, we do MBTI tests and listen to motivational speakers, leadership instructors and teachers involved in our leadership program speak. In year 11, we take year 7s or year 8s on a 5 to 7 day camp. And when I mean "take", I mean organise the activities, execute the activities, make sure every kid is in bed, cleaned up, on time, debriefed and aok. We make speeches during mealtimes to inspire the kids.

Then, in year 12, we apply for leadership positions, which are limited. In order to become a leader, you must first make a speech in front of everybody affiliated with your field, be voted on by all the students involved in it, be one of the top few candidates in terms of voting, go to half an hour interviews with the coordinator of said field and get approved by the headmaster. It's a big deal.

And during all those years, the people who looked like they were going to be leaders, became leaders, while the people who looked like they weren't, did not. After all this training, nobody's leadership skill improved. Instead, they gained a monumental amount of experience. The shy, introverted kid in the corner just isn't cut to be a leader. No matter how hard he tries, he won't be able to motivate people too well, direct people too well, explain things too well or just be competent as a head. He can set a good example, but hey, who can't if they really tried?

Everybody is different. Some people are good as music, some art, some sport. In this case, some people are just born leaders.

Messi, inherently, is not a leader. No matter how much time he gets, he just won't be able to lead the charge like Obama, Maximus or Puyol.

/thread

So, your school experience > literally tons of researched literature on the subject?

So my large school, which is full of diversity, is not a microcosm of the real world? Is my school just different from every other school in the world? Do the people in my school just suddenly change their entire character once they graduate? Does my school arbitrarily go against all the theses suggested in the "tons of researched literature on the subject"?

What's the use of this hypothetical material if it cannot be applied to the real world?

by jibers Thu Feb 16, 2012 12:46 pm

Messi is no Roy Keane that's for sure.

by The Franchise Thu Feb 16, 2012 2:44 pm

Ok, so your know better than academics who spend their lifes work on this exact topic.

I mean, sports psychologists never thought about the practical application of it right?

Introverts can be leaders, its simply an old myth which says they cant.

by Harmonica Thu Feb 16, 2012 2:54 pm

The Franchise wrote:
Introverts can be leaders, its simply an old myth which says they cant.

http://www.thinkingmanagers.com/lmr/introverted-leadership

5. Embracing solitude: Introverted leaders have timeouts that fuel their thinking, creativity and decision making. When the pressure is on, this strategy helps them to be responsive rather than reactive.

Describes perfectly the ultimate big game player and creative mind of Messi.

by Zealous Thu Feb 16, 2012 3:00 pm

harhar11 wrote:Wasn´t zidane exactly the same? From what I remember he was very shy and didnt talk nor shout alot

Messi the captain - Page 2 Xzibit_meme_7219_Wtf_am_i_reading-s510x334-157605-580

by harhar11 Thu Feb 16, 2012 5:02 pm

Zealous wrote:
harhar11 wrote:Wasn´t zidane exactly the same? From what I remember he was very shy and didnt talk nor shout alot

:?: what do you mean?

Maybe you dont know why I brought Zidane up? Well, I brought him up because his personality was very similiar that to Messi and he was captain to his team. Zidane was a leader by setting an example, which messi can also do.

by JAY-Z Thu Feb 16, 2012 6:05 pm

Still

for being honest LOL

by Jonathan28 Thu Feb 16, 2012 6:16 pm

Kev wrote:I'm sorry, but the naive, idealistic belief that "everybody" can be a leader, than everyone can develop into a leader, is absolutely, undoubtedly, unequivocally, wrong.

In my school, leadership is a HUGE thing. From Year 9, we mentor primary school kids. In year 10, we go on many leadership training camps, seminars and days. In these seminars, we do MBTI tests and listen to motivational speakers, leadership instructors and teachers involved in our leadership program speak. In year 11, we take year 7s or year 8s on a 5 to 7 day camp. And when I mean "take", I mean organise the activities, execute the activities, make sure every kid is in bed, cleaned up, on time, debriefed and aok. We make speeches during mealtimes to inspire the kids.

Then, in year 12, we apply for leadership positions, which are limited. In order to become a leader, you must first make a speech in front of everybody affiliated with your field, be voted on by all the students involved in it, be one of the top few candidates in terms of voting, go to half an hour interviews with the coordinator of said field and get approved by the headmaster. It's a big deal.

And during all those years, the people who looked like they were going to be leaders, became leaders, while the people who looked like they weren't, did not. After all this training, nobody's leadership skill improved. Instead, they gained a monumental amount of experience. The shy, introverted kid in the corner just isn't cut to be a leader. No matter how hard he tries, he won't be able to motivate people too well, direct people too well, explain things too well or just be competent as a head. He can set a good example, but hey, who can't if they really tried?

Everybody is different. Some people are good as music, some art, some sport. In this case, some people are just born leaders.

Messi, inherently, is not a leader. No matter how much time he gets, he just won't be able to lead the charge like Obama, Maximus or Puyol.

/thread

Dude, i'm sorry, but this is the biggest peice of crap I have ever read. You cannot determine the leadership potential of someone in school, some people don;t come out of their shells until later on in life. I will take myself as an example, when I was still in school, I was the quietest guy you would ever meet, I had a few close friends and just kept myself to myself. I would never volunteer to become a captain when playing football where you had to choose people for you team and I sucked at presentations. I had an extremly hard time asking girls out because I had insecurities, I was very unsure of myself. By your schools, standards I would have been cast aside early on in the voting.

The moment I moved on to University, I totally changed , is it said that University is where you discover who you really are and I agree wholeheartedly. I have discovered that I am by far the most charismatic person in my course. I can easiily make speechs now, I don't have to ask I just do, I always volunteer to be captain of a sports team when I have the chance, in fact, I am now my local cricket teams captian(which is hard work I must say). Talking to girls is easy now, once you realise that they are also human beings. All those guys back in school who were seens as leaders hvae along fallen away now, because leaders are not determined in school, you have too much growing left to determine if you have leadership qualities at that age. Messi can still develop them, he just needs to be given the chance.

by Zealous Thu Feb 16, 2012 6:45 pm

harhar11 wrote:
Zealous wrote:
harhar11 wrote:Wasn´t zidane exactly the same? From what I remember he was very shy and didnt talk nor shout alot

:?: what do you mean?

Maybe you dont know why I brought Zidane up? Well, I brought him up because his personality was very similiar that to Messi and he was captain to his team. Zidane was a leader by setting an example, which messi can also do.

Zidane was anything but shy and quiet as a captain. His time as France captain shows that.

I agree that Messi can lead by example as captain though.

by harhar11 Thu Feb 16, 2012 6:50 pm

Zealous wrote:

Zidane was anything but shy and quiet as a captain. His time as France captain shows that.

I agree that Messi can lead by example as captain though.

I don´t remember any of that. I dont remember him being the shouting/vocal type of captain like puyol or terry are..

by El Chelsea Fuerte Thu Feb 16, 2012 6:53 pm

Messi with leadership skills?

You're born to be a leader. Just because you're the best player doesn't mean you'd make the best captain.

And LOL at being able to develop leadership skills :lol!:

by stunt Thu Feb 16, 2012 6:53 pm

It's true, you are born an introvert or extrovert, that's defined since the moment you are born. But, throughout your life, you can improve, such as with any other skill, introverts can learn to be leaders. Loads of shy people become extremely extroverted later in their life because of the careers they pick. It's a skill that can be learned, as with almost everything else.

by billionmillion Thu Feb 16, 2012 7:09 pm

best and most passionate about any profession can be leader. skills>talking to be a leader. talking comes second

at least give him credit for being honest. actually i liked it "bahh ehh" part

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