Messi GOAT claimers who hate on CR7...

The level of football is lower because you cant buy success in the WC like you can in the CL

....which is yet another reason why its better

Immaculate_Mole wrote:Surag i said CL is now a higher level than WC and quite frankly i dont see how anyone can disagree......

WC has been meh since 86.

I aint talking about the quality mate but representing your country is something different regardless of the quality of the tournament.It is still valued highly imo

You know what ,money is ruining International football.Many Players have realized that now ,they give 100 % for their club as they are very lavishly paid to do that but not the case at NT level(but some are very genuine and some might not be)

Playing for your country is priceless.It is just more than representing your club in say a CL final.Thats the point i was trying to make.

Oh right, i agree Surag on that stance.......

I still dont think you need a WC to be on the GOAT list tho.

I agree with Mole, although without a WC he will never be the undisputed GOAT he will have Pele-esque statistics though when he is finished with his career and will most likely if he continues this trend, be far better than any other player ever was.

Also :lol!: at the OP, was it just a butthurt rant are you trying to get something across here? I also lol'd at CR7 not being enough competition for Messi for the Balon d'or, imo CR's footballing ability is overrated, I admit he is still a great player and his goalscoring abilities are almost unmatched, if Xavi and CR7 aren't considered "enough" competition for the balon d'or than I don't know who would make it more difficult to win tbh. Also I doubt you were complaining when CR7 had to compete with a 20 year old Messi and Fernando Torres for the Balon d'Or.

I am not necessarily saying Messi should win the world cup to be considered GOAT.

But this Barcelona side is clearly one of the greatest of all time.We will keep hearing about Iniesta and Xavi in the next 20-30 years or more and their legacy cuz for me they are possibly the best midfield duo in Football history.

As i said in my earlier post either he needs to show how great he is in another club or truly inspire his NT to a title winning round atleast as i hope he does it in the future with his NT.

This constant comparison with Argentina NT and Barcelona where he has racked up such insane numbers is all but tarnishing his legacy imo.And just maybe that might be a factor in his underwhelming perfomances for Argentina.Just maybe.

Anyways he's only 24 and there is a lot of time to go.

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Why do people keep saying he has underwhelming performances for the NT?

He is always one of the best performers for the NT. There is nothing much you can do when there is no midfield and no one to finish the chances you create.

In any case, Argentina last played their best football with Pekerman. After him, it has been pick up the ball and run towards goal. There is zero organization in their build-up play.

Surag.Blueguy wrote:I am not necessarily saying Messi should win the world cup to be considered GOAT.

But this Barcelona side is clearly one of the greatest of all time.We will keep hearing about Iniesta and Xavi in the next 20-30 years or more and their legacy cuz for me they are possibly the best midfield duo in Football history.

As i said in my earlier post either he needs to show how great he is in another club or truly inspire his NT to a title winning round atleast as i hope he does it in the future with his NT.

This constant comparison with Argentina NT and Barcelona where he has racked up such insane numbers is all but tarnishing his legacy imo.And just maybe that might be a factor in his underwhelming perfomances for Argentina.Just maybe.

Anyways he's only 24 and there is a lot of time to go.

Why? He doesn't need to do anything, let alone leave Barcelona, especially when he has absolutely no reason to leave and every reason in the world to stay.

As for Argentina, Messi does surprisingly well for Argentina being the shit team they are, sure you can make the argument that they have a mostly fantastic set of players with plenty of world class attackers but just because you put 23 players together doesn't make them a team and that's why we haven't won a trophy since '93.


Messi had 10 assists and 4 goals in like 12 matches for Argentina in 2011 and was the best playmaker at the copa america, with most chances created per 90 min and most assists, this will never satisfy the demand for goals that many believe is the only way one can "perform for the NT".

when real madrid wins UCL this season, who else will win Ballon d'or? obviously CR7, soo what does that hold for the competition ?

Lionel Messi wrote:I agree with Mole, although without a WC he will never be the undisputed GOAT he will have Pele-esque statistics though when he is finished with his career and will most likely if he continues this trend, be far better than any other player ever was.

Also :lol!: at the OP, was it just a butthurt rant are you trying to get something across here? I also lol'd at CR7 not being enough competition for Messi for the Balon d'or, imo CR's footballing ability is overrated, I admit he is still a great player and his goalscoring abilities are almost unmatched, if Xavi and CR7 aren't considered "enough" competition for the balon d'or than I don't know who would make it more difficult to win tbh. Also I doubt you were complaining when CR7 had to compete with a 20 year old Messi and Fernando Torres for the Balon d'Or.

My point was a reaction to the "GOAT!!!!"-rants going on among you and your fellow Messi-fanatics as a result of Messi picking up his third Ballon d'or (equaling the all time record). The only point I tried to make was that to be able to rate Messis Ballon d'Ors as something special you have to consider Ronaldo as special competition. Especially if you consider the feat as something that makes him "GOAT". And I've seen too many posts in the last year claiming that Ronaldo is crap among Messi fanatics. Which makes it ironic that you consider Messis 3 Ballon d'Ors a feat at all since you don't rate his main competition (outside of your own team ofcourse...).

ijomer wrote:when real madrid wins UCL this season, who else will win Ballon d'or? obviously CR7, soo what does that hold for the competition ?

I don't think it's just Messi/CR7 this year. Imagine if Bayern win UCL and Netherlands win the Euros with Robben starring in both competitions. Or if France pull a surprise in the Euro thanks to Benzema while he continues his immense form for Real Madrid. Or Özil/Schweini if Real/Bayern wins UCL and Germany wins the Euros.

paperbackwriter wrote:

ijomer wrote:when real madrid wins UCL this season, who else will win Ballon d'or? obviously CR7, soo what does that hold for the competition ?

I don't think it's just Messi/CR7 this year. Imagine if Bayern win UCL and Netherlands win the Euros with Robben starring in both competitions. Or if France pull a surprise in the Euro thanks to Benzema while he continues his immense form for Real Madrid. Or Özil/Schweini if Real/Bayern wins UCL and Germany wins the Euros.

Honestly, If Messi's 2nd Balon D'or is anything to go by, it won't make a damn difference.

izzy26 wrote:

paperbackwriter wrote:

ijomer wrote:when real madrid wins UCL this season, who else will win Ballon d'or? obviously CR7, soo what does that hold for the competition ?

I don't think it's just Messi/CR7 this year. Imagine if Bayern win UCL and Netherlands win the Euros with Robben starring in both competitions. Or if France pull a surprise in the Euro thanks to Benzema while he continues his immense form for Real Madrid. Or Özil/Schweini if Real/Bayern wins UCL and Germany wins the Euros.

Honestly, If Messi's 2nd Balon D'or is anything to go by, it won't make a damn difference.

Yes it is, because no matter what people claim afterwards Sneijder wasn't that outstanding for either Inter or Holland. Until the WC, most considered Milito the main star of the Inter show, thus the raging going about when the WC was and Higuain started ahead of him. Overall I can't really remember one stand out performance that made me "wow!" from Sneijder during that CL campaign. And in the WC he/they were still just second best and he was meh in the final.

People just made him favorite because of the faulty math of "treble + WC silver + top goal scorer for Holland in WC = Ballon d'Or!!??!?!", while people just wanted Messi to loose. Sneijder had in no way a WC on the same level as Cannavaro and Zidane had in 2006 for example. Sneijder had few if any real standout immense performances over 90 minutes, and certainly not a full tournament of magic as Zizou and Cannavaro had the previous WC. He should have been up there but it was never a robbery.

I just wanted Sneijder to at least place top 3. The man deserved that much...

World cup or no world cup messi wont be the goat unless he matches maradonas level of performance in 86, which i dont think is in his capabilities. But we have to just wait and see

Lionel Messi wrote:I agree with Mole, although without a WC he will never be the undisputed GOAT he will have Pele-esque statistics though when he is finished with his career and will most likely if he continues this trend, be far better than any other player ever was.

someone hasnt watched pele and maradona.....pele and maradona were technique wise as good/better than messi

if titles make messi best player then how he won his 2nd Ballon Dor? these butthurt cr fanboys try to discredit messi after every success. Also he become 2nd best player in 2007 scoring just 16 goals and winning no titles. i dont know if CR can become second best player just scoring 16 goals and winning nothing

every goat was great in one club, none of them was the best in another clubs

Ganso wrote:

Lionel Messi wrote:I agree with Mole, although without a WC he will never be the undisputed GOAT he will have Pele-esque statistics though when he is finished with his career and will most likely if he continues this trend, be far better than any other player ever was.

someone hasnt watched pele and maradona.....pele and maradona were technique wise as good/better than messi

When did I say they weren't? I was just referring to the fact that, like Pele, he will have so many more goals than everyone else he will be in a class of his own.

paperbackwriter wrote:

izzy26 wrote:

paperbackwriter wrote:

ijomer wrote:when real madrid wins UCL this season, who else will win Ballon d'or? obviously CR7, soo what does that hold for the competition ?

I don't think it's just Messi/CR7 this year. Imagine if Bayern win UCL and Netherlands win the Euros with Robben starring in both competitions. Or if France pull a surprise in the Euro thanks to Benzema while he continues his immense form for Real Madrid. Or Özil/Schweini if Real/Bayern wins UCL and Germany wins the Euros.

Honestly, If Messi's 2nd Balon D'or is anything to go by, it won't make a damn difference.

Yes it is, because no matter what people claim afterwards Sneijder wasn't that outstanding for either Inter or Holland. Until the WC, most considered Milito the main star of the Inter show, thus the raging going about when the WC was and Higuain started ahead of him. Overall I can't really remember one stand out performance that made me "wow!" from Sneijder during that CL campaign. And in the WC he/they were still just second best and he was meh in the final.

People just made him favorite because of the faulty math of "treble + WC silver + top goal scorer for Holland in WC = Ballon d'Or!!??!?!", while people just wanted Messi to loose. Sneijder had in no way a WC on the same level as Cannavaro and Zidane had in 2006 for example. Sneijder had few if any real standout immense performances over 90 minutes, and certainly not a full tournament of magic as Zizou and Cannavaro had the previous WC. He should have been up there but it was never a robbery.

100% agree with you on sneijder. The only real game in the CL that made me drool over sneijder was his performance against chelsea at SB but apart from that I cant really remember. And at the WC there was none, he just scored a goal and then went missing..